Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: LC0112G on 25 January 2020, 22:48:01
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Next problem - I think I'm going to need a new gearbox. Anyone got a known good AR35 for sale. Please. For a 2001 3.0V6 Saloon Elite?
Symptoms are - a very clunky gear change when cold. It's been getting worse for a few months. Then before Christmas, the 'clutch' started slipping.
It's Ok pulling away in 'D' and changes into 2nd and 3rd Ok. However, once you reach 30mph and lift off to maintain that speed, the revs start to rise even though you're not getting any faster. It'll go all the way up to 5000rpm and eventually "Gearbox Fault" comes up on the MID. aven't got Tech 2 to read trouble codes. Can they be blink tested?
If I lift off and coast I can stop the revs rising, and I don't get the error message. If I then floor it, it 'thumps' down into second, and then back into 3rd and it's ok ish. The fault only seems to occur when cold - once you've driven for perhaps 10 minutes it behaves normally. If the MID error has come on, turning the engine off and on again resets everything and it'll drive Ok.
I've tried putting the gearbox in 1, 2 and 3, and as far as I can tell so far it doesn't slip.
I've had the car up in the air, and checked the gearbox fluid level with the engine warm and running and topped the fluid up twice. Drove 2500 miles over Christmas and I thought that had cured it. But it hasn't. In the last week its got progressively worse and worse. AFAIK the box is original, so 20 years old with 280K miles on it, and probably on its original filter and oil.
I was going to try a filter and fluid change next, but from watching Youtube videos it doesn't sound like that's going to be the fault. If I'm going to have to get covered in ATF I'd rather it was only once not twice. So assuming no-one has any better ideas it's probably quickest to just swap the current gearbox out for a new known good box.
So anyone got a known good AR35 for sale? Please. :-*
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A friend's Omega 4L30E automatic gearbox moved gears in a strange way (hot and cold). We talked to several mechanics. Some said that they should dismantle the box and replace several parts, until we found a good professional, who indicated a garage with the Tech 1 scanner. The defect was just an oil pressure controlling solenoid. My suggestion is that you take your Omega in a garage with a scanner suitable for this gearbox. It may be a simple defect, as I reported above.
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With that kind of mileage it isn't worth messing around with imo. Should be able to pick one up for £100 that's done half the miles.
New fluid and filter, bolt it in and forget about it for another 10 years or so.
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£ 100 for an auto gearbox? Here manual gearboxes are still the majority in cars. An automatic gearbox in the same condition costs the equivalent of £ 500 on average.
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Only people who might have one is Robsey, or omegod. I haven't. :'(
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7 or 8 years ago it was almost a case of struggling to give them away. The most I ever got for one was £100.
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Given the other, as yet unresolved, electrical issues, I would be looking for another car :-X
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With that kind of mileage it isn't worth messing around with imo. Should be able to pick one up for £100 that's done half the miles.
New fluid and filter, bolt it in and forget about it for another 10 years or so.
Yes that's the plan. I might be able to repair the gearbox, but I'd then be looking at box off one weekend, finding all the bits, fitting all the bits, and then box back on over another weekend. Minimum of 3 weekends work, and time is tight for me at the moment.
Where as old box off, and new box on could probably be done over a single weekend.
Will pop a "Wanted" ad on and hope Robsey or omegod can help out.
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Given the other, as yet unresolved, electrical issues, I would be looking for another car :-X
I don't give up on electrical/electronic issues. It's my day job. :-)
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Given the other, as yet unresolved, electrical issues, I would be looking for another car :-X
I don't give up on electrical/electronic issues. It's my day job. :-)
I get that ... but sometimes it's easier to just draw a line under it & move on. ;)
Last year my 451 Smart broke down .... it went to two 'experts' that tested/swapped various ECUs etc from my car to/from other bits. I wrote it off in the end & cut my losses and bought another.
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If you are anywhere near Serek (SOS automotive, Huntingdon) he might have a gearbox and can fit it in a few hours - or sooner!
Ron.
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I don't have an AR35 but an old OOF member locally has one that was allegedly refurbished sitting in his spares car, it's in Liverpool though
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I don't have an AR35 but an old OOF member locally has one that was allegedly refurbished sitting in his spares car, it's in Liverpool though
Hmmmm....Yeovil to Liverpool.......and back.
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I don't have an AR35 but an old OOF member locally has one that was allegedly refurbished sitting in his spares car, it's in Liverpool though
Thanks - I'll keep this in mind if I can't find anything closer. As STEMO implies a return trip to Liverpool is likely to cost close to £100 in fuel to go fetch.
By "sitting in his spares car" do you mean in "easily accessible in the boot" or is it still underneath and connected to the engine with exhaust pipes in the way? In other words would I also have to (help) get it off the car whilst I'm up there ?
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An AR35 with 65000 ish miles, reconditioned by Daz with a sonax thrust bearing, new filters, new fluid and new gaskets went to Northern Ireland in the back of my old 3.2 along with a shed load of other bits .. all included in the price ...... I still wonder what happened to that car :-\
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An AR35 with 65000 ish miles, reconditioned by Daz with a sonax thrust bearing, new filters, new fluid and new gaskets went to Northern Ireland in the back of my old 3.2 along with a shed load of other bits .. all included in the price ...... I still wonder what happened to that car :-\
Safe in dry storage :)
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An AR35 with 65000 ish miles, reconditioned by Daz with a sonax thrust bearing, new filters, new fluid and new gaskets went to Northern Ireland in the back of my old 3.2 along with a shed load of other bits .. all included in the price ...... I still wonder what happened to that car :-\
Safe in dry storage :)
Ahh, there you are. Your name has been mentioned as a possible source for a new AR35. Don't suppose you've got one lying about that you'd be prepared to part with?
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If you happen to find a low mileage one that's still attached to a 3.2 engine, i'd be interested in the engine to play with.
Or I'll keep in mind your quest if anything turns up. I've tried chasing the MV6 bloke who had advertised an MOT failure on here, but have had no response.
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If you happen to find a low mileage one that's still attached to a 3.2 engine, i'd be interested in the engine to play with.
Or I'll keep in mind your quest if anything turns up. I've tried chasing the MV6 bloke who had advertised an MOT failure on here, but have had no response.
Was going to suggest the same. I don't have anywhere to store a dead MV6, or anyway of moving it. However, if you end up with a whole car and don't want/need the gearbox....
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Have you tried the DIY autobox flushing with engine running method? Google it. A friend revived a Volvo XC90 that was given to him with a dead autobox by continually flushing with fresh fluid until it now works normally. They don't have a drain hole or an easily accessible fill, so it involved long tubes and funnels and about £80 worth of ATF. But he's now cruising around in it with a fully functioning 'box.
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Have you tried the DIY autobox flushing with engine running method? Google it. A friend revived a Volvo XC90 that was given to him with a dead autobox by continually flushing with fresh fluid until it now works normally. They don't have a drain hole or an easily accessible fill, so it involved long tubes and funnels and about £80 worth of ATF. But he's now cruising around in it with a fully functioning 'box.
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The Omega will dump most of its fluid with a full change while warm, sumps off, and blow the lines thro, gets 90% of the old fluid... £80 of Dex3 is alot, of fluid on an Omega.. On a £6k+ car it's worth a punt.
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Have you tried the DIY autobox flushing with engine running method? Google it. A friend revived a Volvo XC90 that was given to him with a dead autobox by continually flushing with fresh fluid until it now works normally. They don't have a drain hole or an easily accessible fill, so it involved long tubes and funnels and about £80 worth of ATF. But he's now cruising around in it with a fully functioning 'box.
AIUI (admittedly from watching Youtube videos) the common AR25/35 (4L30E) problem is that the rubber ring/seal around the 3rd/4th change piston degrades and starts leaking, which means it doesn't exert enough (oil) pressure on the friction clutch packs, which then slip, and wear out. Once the slipping starts the clutches wear more and more, and the gearbox fails sooner rather than later. If that's what's happening here then throwing ATF and filters at it isn't going to work for long.
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An AR35 with 65000 ish miles, reconditioned by Daz with a sonax thrust bearing, new filters, new fluid and new gaskets went to Northern Ireland in the back of my old 3.2 along with a shed load of other bits .. all included in the price ...... I still wonder what happened to that car :-\
Safe in dry storage :)
Thank you .. nice to know .. :)
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An AR35 with 65000 ish miles, reconditioned by Daz with a sonax thrust bearing, new filters, new fluid and new gaskets went to Northern Ireland in the back of my old 3.2 along with a shed load of other bits .. all included in the price ...... I still wonder what happened to that car :-\
Safe in dry storage :)
Thank you .. nice to know .. :)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48074169086_878d9f8b07_z.jpg)
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An AR35 with 65000 ish miles, reconditioned by Daz with a sonax thrust bearing, new filters, new fluid and new gaskets went to Northern Ireland in the back of my old 3.2 along with a shed load of other bits .. all included in the price ...... I still wonder what happened to that car :-\
Safe in dry storage :)
Thank you .. nice to know .. :)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48074169086_878d9f8b07_z.jpg)
Thank you .. still looking pretty a year on ... although, personally ... not too sure of those wheels ... :)
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Looks like it's been lowered as well.
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I was thinking the same.
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I thought that might be the effect of the different wheels/lower profile tyres ?? ... if it has been lowered thats a lot of work to take out all the self levelling !!!
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Wheels are standard late Elite, so same size as your original ones :y
Obviously been painted though.
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I thought that might be the effect of the different wheels/lower profile tyres ?? ... if it has been lowered thats a lot of work to take out all the self levelling !!!
Not really, just pull the relay out to stop the pump running, the suspension swap is just that, an everyday job. If your really bothered you could remove the pump and pipes.
Every Elite I've had / still got (6) I've binned the wallowy self levelling springs and shocks. Did put all brand new GM self levelling on the first one but soon went to lower stiffer springs and shocks.
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Every Elite I've had / still got (6) I've binned the wallowy self levelling springs and shocks. Did put all brand new GM self levelling on the first one but soon went to lower stiffer springs and shocks.
Seems to defeat the object of buying an Elite :-\
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Every Elite I've had / still got (6) I've binned the wallowy self levelling springs and shocks. Did put all brand new GM self levelling on the first one but soon went to lower stiffer springs and shocks.
Seems to defeat the object of buying an Elite :-\
indeed.
Replacing the soft S/L rear springs with ordinary ones, whilst retaining the shocks gives the best of both systems.
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This is what I have done to mine and for me it gives a very nice compromise indeed. The rear shocks aren't going to last forever though and will need to be replaced with something else at some point.
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Whole purpose of the original purchase of an Elite Omega was to tow the caravan... so self levelling was a must .. absolutely no point in taking it off ... and the replacement also has self levelling ....... :)
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Whole purpose of the original purchase of an Elite Omega was to tow the caravan... so self levelling was a must .. absolutely no point in taking it off ... and the replacement also has self levelling ....... :)
Likewise .... :y
.... and if I'd wanted to drive a car that 'could handle' I'd have bought something other than an Omega. ::)
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Whole purpose of the original purchase of an Elite Omega was to tow the caravan... so self levelling was a must .. absolutely no point in taking it off ... and the replacement also has self levelling ....... :)
Likewise .... :y
.... and if I'd wanted to drive a car that 'could handle' I'd have bought something other than an Omega. ::)
It's cheap, rwd, reasonably quick and good for donuts, which, sadly, makes it well wickid.
Best not to know where a favourite/fondly remembered car is now, as you invariably won't like the answer. :'(
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Whole purpose of the original purchase of an Elite Omega was to tow the caravan... so self levelling was a must .. absolutely no point in taking it off ... and the replacement also has self levelling ....... :)
Likewise .... :y
.... and if I'd wanted to drive a car that 'could handle' I'd have bought something other than an Omega. ::)
It's cheap, rwd, reasonably quick and good for donuts, which, sadly, makes it well wickid.
Best not to know where a favourite/fondly remembered car is now, as you invariably won't like the answer. :'(
I knew where my Omega had gone as I got the bill from the recovery firm that had 'recovered & disposed off' the car I'd sold on a month or two before hand. I just emailed them a copy of the change of ownership from Swansea. :y A short time later it was on eBay with just a dent in a rear door .... ???
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I don't use mine for towing but do like to keep it close to original spec, with minor mods to improve things to be the best Omega I could make it. Hence keeping the self levelling but getting rid of the silly soft Elite rear springs.
If I keep it long enough though, the rear dampers will need replacing at some point and I don't hold out much hope of sourcing a good pair of original dampers.
The bloke I bought Airfix 1 from was an ex Vauxhall mechanic and I gave him a lift home in the Omega. After about 100 yards he said "you've uprated the suspension on this haven't you ?".
When I told him the details of what I had done he said "they should have made them all like this. The Elites were a wallowy old bus, but this one feels really planted without being harsh."
It made spending far more on the car than its worth feel a bit more worthwhile.
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It made spending far more on the car than its worth feel a bit more worthwhile.
if your buying a car to filp and sell on then fair enough
but "spending far more on the car than its worth" is not relevant if you are keeping and using it
I see depreciation on a new car as much more of a problem
some people pay stupid amounts of interest to own new
some people buy brand new french cars on finance :o ;D :D
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Those people need their heads looking at !
My Omega probably owes me near £2500 and has almost 190k on the clock. Ive had about 3 1/2 years out of it and will probably keep it for another year or two, so in the grand scheme of things its a cheap car imo. And more importantly, I really like it.
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Those people need their heads looking at !
My Omega probably owes me near £2500 and has almost 190k on the clock. Ive had about 3 1/2 years out of it and will probably keep it for another year or two, so in the grand scheme of things its a cheap car imo. And more importantly, I really like it.
Less than 2 quid a day then for the 3 1/2 years you have had it ,
the fact that you like it is the thing :)
my Omega don't owe me anything (less than a grand to buy inc all the parts , nearly 2 years ),but I love driving it
I't can't go down in value ;D and does what i want, in comfort .
£25,000 euro sh*t box , no thanks
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Understand the point of the SL when towing, but to me the standard Elite suspension is lacking otherwise, a well balanced RWD car shouldn't wallow around bends (especially mid way through a bend) like an SL Elite does, it's not enjoyable to drive unless town driving and gives a lack of confidence in the chassis true ability.
...But each to thier own and if we were all the same it'd be a dull Planet.
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If you happen to find a low mileage one that's still attached to a 3.2 engine, i'd be interested in the engine to play with.
Or I'll keep in mind your quest if anything turns up. I've tried chasing the MV6 bloke who had advertised an MOT failure on here, but have had no response.
Was going to suggest the same. I don't have anywhere to store a dead MV6, or anyway of moving it. However, if you end up with a whole car and don't want/need the gearbox....
The MV6 that is on here in cars for sale, is now on ebay. It has done nearly 300k so probably knackered, and MOT has run out so probably can't be test driven, far. But it's not far from me and I have a trailer...Also I am due to go to a VX breakers next week for a manual GB (the strongish one from a 2.2diesel) and I can ask if they have anything for you.
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If you happen to find a low mileage one that's still attached to a 3.2 engine, i'd be interested in the engine to play with.
Or I'll keep in mind your quest if anything turns up. I've tried chasing the MV6 bloke who had advertised an MOT failure on here, but have had no response.
Was going to suggest the same. I don't have anywhere to store a dead MV6, or anyway of moving it. However, if you end up with a whole car and don't want/need the gearbox....
The MV6 that is on here in cars for sale, is now on ebay. It has done nearly 300k so probably knackered, and MOT has run out so probably can't be test driven, far. But it's not far from me and I have a trailer...Also I am due to go to a VX breakers next week for a manual GB (the strongish one from a 2.2diesel) and I can ask if they have anything for you.
If you could/would, that would be great. So far I've got a sniff of a few AR25's but no AR35's. I'm off on holi-bobs next week, but should have EMAIL assuming the French Hotel is up to scratch..
Also, need the LC rear shock top mount payment details. Have PM'ed you on the ABS site about it, but PM's are complicated there. PM me here if it's easier.
Cheers
Malcolm
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but should have EMAIL assuming the French Hotel is up to scratch..
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??? Does that mean you've now got a Smart phone? ??? ??? ;) ;)
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but should have EMAIL assuming the French Hotel is up to scratch..
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??? Does that mean you've now got a Smart phone? ??? ??? ;) ;)
Wash your mouth out!
Microsoft Surface 6 notebook/tablet.
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but should have EMAIL assuming the French Hotel is up to scratch..
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??? Does that mean you've now got a Smart phone? ??? ??? ;) ;)
Wash your mouth out!
Microsoft Surface 6 notebook/tablet.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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This is what I have done to mine and for me it gives a very nice compromise indeed. The rear shocks aren't going to last forever though and will need to be replaced with something else at some point.
New air dampers for self levelling Lotus Carltons are being remanufactured soon by a chap in ABS.
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Are they the same as Omega Elite dampers ??
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Are they the same as Omega Elite dampers ??
Well I was fitting new Elite dampers (when they were still available) to Lotus Carltons and they fitted and worked well. You just have to watch out if you have an estate, because those are a different length. The valving is a bit stiffer on rebound for a Lotus one, but should be fine to fit to an Omega B Elite. They won't be cheap though....
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Which member as I’m Liverpool and I’d be interested
I don't have an AR35 but an old OOF member locally has one that was allegedly refurbished sitting in his spares car, it's in Liverpool though
Hmmmm....Yeovil to Liverpool.......and back.
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R.e the AR35 I just found out it has been scrapped yesterday :'(
Fancy a fancy a manual conversion instead David ?
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Nope haha had a manual v6 omega once ... didnt like it
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Sooo, assuming Marshal law isn't declared and the Army aren't out on the streets preventing me getting to the workshop, then this weekend is the 'box swap day. Picked up a replacement from Robsey last weekend.
Never had an Auto box off before. Plan is car up on ramps/axle stands, drop the 'zorst, unbolt the propshaft rubber donut, unbolt the rear box mounts, unbolt the TQ from the flywheel, unbolt the bell housing from the block, unplug the electrics, undo the hydraulics, sharp tug and then stand well clear as the 'box crashes to the floor.
Refitting is the opposite of removal - obvsie as the yoofs say.
Anything I've missed, or tips/hints/gotchas?
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Not disconnecting the selector rod won't let it drop very far ;)
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Not disconnecting the selector rod won't let it drop very far ;)
Ahh, right, gotcha. I expect I'd have noticed - eventually ::)
I was kinda hoping that the selector is bolted to the chassis/shell/transmission tunnel, and all gearbox connections/controls were electrical. Is that not the case? Does the interior centre console have to come out to access the top of the gearbox from inside the car?
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No. Selector rod just disconnects from the side of the gearbox. Be careful, they are fickin heavy - I would guess around 80 kg ?. I dropped one on my hand about 10 years ago and still have the scar.
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One really cool factoid about the Merc W220 S Class with the V6 lump, the selector rod can be disconnected from the drivers seat and the upper bell housing can be removed from the engine bay 8)
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No. Selector rod just disconnects from the side of the gearbox. Be careful, they are fickin heavy - I would guess around 80 kg ?. I dropped one on my hand about 10 years ago and still have the scar.
Ok - thanks.
80lbs perhaps(40Kg) - but not 80Kg. Robsey and I lifted the new one into the boot of my car without any issues, and if we were effectively lifting 40kg each I'd have struggled. I've had a dickey back in the past so used an engine crane to lift it out of the boot once I'd got home. I'd actually guess at more like 50lbs/25Kg, but as you say quite a lump to drop on your hand/foot. Pretty sure it's not as heavy as the LC gearbox, and that's been in and out more often than I care to remember. :'(
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Picking it up is one thing, bench pressing it out whilst under the car is a very different prospect altogether ;)
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Oops, I should have typed lb,s not kg,s. Don't suppose you have the means to weigh it ? Does it currently have fluid in or not, as that would make quite a difference ?
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Picking it up is one thing, bench pressing it out whilst under the car is a very different prospect altogether ;)
True, but I've no real intension of trying to manually lift it at all if I can help it. With the LC I usually jack the front up, then the back, then the front etc whilst supporting the other end on wooden blocks. I do have a transmission cradle thingie that attaches to a trolley jack, but it's a bit unwieldy to use under a car on ramps/axle stands.
Oops, I should have typed lb,s not kg,s. Don't suppose you have the means to weigh it ? Does it currently have fluid in or not, as that would make quite a difference ?
I'll try and remember to bring the bathroom scales in tomorrow. AIUI it's got new filters, thrust washers and some oil in it. Will obviously need the level checking once it's in the car but it's sealed up quite well at the moment so I'd prefer to avoid getting covered in ATF until/unless it's absolutely necessary. Even so, if there is 2L of ATF in it, that's only going to add 2Kg/4.4Lbs to the overall weight, which in the overall scheme of things weighing more than 20Kg isn't that relevant.
I've also got a V6 3.0L Auto engine sat here (needs a bottom end rebuild). Might weigh that too just for giggles.
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I've also got a V6 3.0L Auto engine sat here (needs a bottom end rebuild). Might weigh that too just for giggles.
bench press that first to bulk yourself up a bit before you tackle the gearbox ;)
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That went well - Not. >:(
Caught a dose of the squits on Friday (ok too much information) so spent most of Friday and Saturday staring at my rapidly diminishing stockpile of bog roll and generally feeling very sorry for myself.
Felt a lot better on Sunday but decided heavy work best avoided, so set about cutting down a Hyacynth bush in the garden. Half way though I tweaked my back. I 'kin hate gardening. I'm now self medicating on the three Ol's - Ibruprofen-ol, Cocodamol, and Alcohol. Doses are variable depending on the pain.
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That went well - Not. >:(
Caught a dose of the squits on Friday (ok too much information) so spent most of Friday and Saturday staring at my rapidly diminishing stockpile of bog roll and generally feeling very sorry for myself.
Felt a lot better on Sunday but decided heavy work best avoided, so set about cutting down a Hyacynth bush in the garden. Half way though I tweaked my back. I 'kin hate gardening. I'm now self medicating on the three Ol's - Ibruprofen-ol, Cocodamol, and Alcohol. Doses are variable depending on the pain.
Dr Steve says "Malcolm, you are getting too old and tetchy for all this physical stuff. Hire a gardener and get rid of the ancient Vauxhall. Try to cut down on the painkillers but keep taking the alcohol".
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Failed to measure the weight of the gearbox today. I can't get it to balance on the digital scales and give a sensible reading. It is well in excess of 25kg though, and that's without the torque converter fitted. Will bring in another set of analogue scales tomorrow that will hopefully do the job.
The Torque converter weighs in at 12.2Kg on it's own, so I think 40Kg isn't going to be too far off the mark.
I'm off to sit outside a bottle of Rioja now :D
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I'd guess 52 kg , I remember being very surprised at the weight when I removed one !
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Ive carried a few and with torque converter and full of fluid, they are kin heavy.
I spent a sunday afternoon removing one in the pissing rain which was exhausting. I had to take it to work that night to be collected to go up to the mad stokie. Had to lift it into the hatch of my mk3 Cavalier. Only just managed it before the old trembling knees gave way.
That was the moment I decided to stop dismantling Omegas, as I was getting past it.
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Ive carried a few and with torque converter and full of fluid, they are kin heavy.
I spent a sunday afternoon removing one in the pissing rain which was exhausting. I had to take it to work that night to be collected to go up to the mad stokie. Had to lift it into the hatch of my mk3 Cavalier. Only just managed it before the old trembling knees gave way.
That was the moment I decided to stop dismantling Omegas, as I was getting cold and wet...
Mouse...
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Just old,burnt out and oppsed. You will get there one day young man.
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So, tomorrow is the big day, assuming the rozzers don't arrest me on my exercise walk to the workshop.
Been there tonight, and got the car up on ramps/concrete blocks. Had a quick shuftie underneath, and.....
Does the exhaust actually have to come off? Sure there is a bracket that fixes the exhaust to the gearbox, but it looks like if I disconnect that bracket the gearbox will come out from between the exhaust pipes. with them still in place.
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/miscpics/underbody/AUTOBOXSUMPS.jpg)
Opel didn't actually make it easier than the normal clusterf*ck did they?
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If you actually want to remove the box, then yes, you need to remove both cats... ;D
It's only four bolts and a few rubber blocks after all ::)
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If you actually want to remove the box, then yes, you need to remove both cats... ;D
It's only four bolts and a few rubber blocks after all ::)
Bugga.
The exhaust looks pretty rusty, particularly the bolts. I can see things being a bit stubborn, and perhaps likely to shear off.
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I didn’t need to take the exhaust off on my estate. Can’t advise on the saloon. :y
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When Daz replaced mine about 10 years ago on my old 2.5 he removed both cats complete and then with some considerable effort got it out using a gearbox jack as we hired the services of a local workshops 4 poster.
Best of luck with it...not a pleasant job
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A couple of points...
You only need to undo the manifold/cat joints... A six sided 16mm is essential for this. Get the exhaust hot as well.
Whether you need to remove the exhaust or not is a moot point. It frees up alot more space for access to box/engine bolts, and for manipulation of the box... Why crush your hand against summat that could have been removed ::)
Again, access to the selector mechanism is sook much easier sans exhaust.
Equally you don't need to remove the prop shaft, but if it slips out of the centre bearing, it's really easy to force it back in without realising that the splines aren't correctly aligned. This will cause no end of grief later.
Have done two Omega clutches on the drive, there's the easy way and the hard way. Clear as much space as possible and get the car at least 18" off the ground or you'll never get the box out from under it. And ideally take someone with you, because now is not the time to squish yourself ;)
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I didn’t need to take the exhaust off on my estate. Can’t advise on the saloon. :y
It was the 2.5 diseasal as well, so not much help I’m afraid, other than to confirm that it is ‘kin heavy, and was not an easy job on stands, although James, who did one earlier for me, made it look like a walk in the park. :-[
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I didn’t need to take the exhaust off on my estate. Can’t advise on the saloon. :y
It was the 2.5 diseasal as well, so not much help I’m afraid, other than to confirm that it is ‘kin heavy, and was not an easy job on stands, although James, who did one earlier for me, made it look like a walk in the park. :-[
Straight six with a single pipe... ;) The V6 doesn't have that luxury...
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Progress so far in 2 hours ....
All 6 bolts off the gearbox to prop-shaft, but the donut won't come out yet.
All 6 bolts out of the flexi plate
3 rounded off and stuck bolts, and one bolt sheared off the cat pipe to rear exhaust sections. Everything here very rusty. I suspect I'm going to have to angle grind the remaining 3 bolts out, and replace both cat pipes.
6 of the 9? bell housing to engine bolts out.
Exhaust to gearbox bracket off (4 bolts)
Gearbox to chassis/mount rear bracket loosed, but still in place till I work out what to do about the exhaust.
Ginsters pasty & 2 cups of coffee downed, packet of crisps, hot cross bun and a banana next.
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Splitting the exhaust was unnecessary...
If the front prop shaft won't slide into the rear enough to drop the donut, then you need to drop the whole propshaft and split it on the ground... See my earlier post warning of extra grief in this area...
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Good progress.
Again from memory Daz removed the prop shaft from mine as his theory was it could fall out and gave better access.
He did only remove the cats but complete from manifold to join of mid section .Bolts were just cut and drilled out then on refit we used nut and bolt to join.
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Splitting the exhaust was unnecessary...
Ok - I misunderstood. My theory was that if I can get the cat to exhaust bolts undone then the cat to manifold nuts could stay in place. When I undo the gearbox rear mount I can then lower the rear of the gearbox as the engine pivots on it's mounts. (That's the way it's done on a Carlton anyway). The front pipes can stay in place and pivot with the engine.
If the front prop shaft won't slide into the rear enough to drop the donut, then you need to drop the whole propshaft and split it on the ground... See my earlier post warning of extra grief in this area...
But that means removing the whole rear section of the exhaust? Or are you saying that I should have unbolted the cat pipes from the engine, and removed the whole exhaust in one piece - cat pipes to rear box complete?
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Good progress.
Again from memory Daz removed the prop shaft from mine as his theory was it could fall out and gave better access.
He did only remove the cats but complete from manifold to join of mid section .Bolts were just cut and drilled out then on refit we used nut and bolt to join.
It's the join at mid section that's the problem. The 4 bolts are rusted to bu99ery. They appear to screw directly into the cat pipe 'flange', and that flange is rusted to hell and there isn't much left of it. I've got my doubts that there will be enough meat to drill out and tap. And to do that the cat section is going to have to come off anyway.
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Splitting the exhaust was unnecessary...
Ok - I misunderstood. My theory was that if I can get the cat to exhaust bolts undone then the cat to manifold nuts could stay in place. When I undo the gearbox rear mount I can then lower the rear of the gearbox as the engine pivots on it's mounts. (That's the way it's done on a Carlton anyway). The front pipes can stay in place and pivot with the engine.
If the front prop shaft won't slide into the rear enough to drop the donut, then you need to drop the whole propshaft and split it on the ground... See my earlier post warning of extra grief in this area...
But that means removing the whole rear section of the exhaust? Or are you saying that I should have unbolted the cat pipes from the engine, and removed the whole exhaust in one piece - cat pipes to rear box complete?
That's exactly what I meant. You need the cats off the car to get the box out. Removing the whole exhaust simply gives you space to move, as on the ground, you need every mm you can create.
Ambas example was done in a workshop. On a lift. So space is a little less critical.
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Splitting the exhaust was unnecessary...
Ok - I misunderstood. My theory was that if I can get the cat to exhaust bolts undone then the cat to manifold nuts could stay in place. When I undo the gearbox rear mount I can then lower the rear of the gearbox as the engine pivots on it's mounts. (That's the way it's done on a Carlton anyway). The front pipes can stay in place and pivot with the engine.
If the front prop shaft won't slide into the rear enough to drop the donut, then you need to drop the whole propshaft and split it on the ground... See my earlier post warning of extra grief in this area...
But that means removing the whole rear section of the exhaust? Or are you saying that I should have unbolted the cat pipes from the engine, and removed the whole exhaust in one piece - cat pipes to rear box complete?
That's exactly what I meant. You need the cats off the car to get the box out. Removing the whole exhaust simply gives you space to move, as on the ground, you need every mm you can create.
Ambas example was done in a workshop. On a lift. So space is a little less critical.
You're doing nothing, whizz down to Yeovil and give the lad a hand :P
And Malcolm, ginsters? in your part of the country, are you sure?
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If the flange is past it but cats are still sound couldn't you cut off both the cat and mid section flanges and rejoin with a sleeve clamp and paste,although that would require entire exhaust dropping ...just a thought
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Splitting the exhaust was unnecessary...
Ok - I misunderstood. My theory was that if I can get the cat to exhaust bolts undone then the cat to manifold nuts could stay in place. When I undo the gearbox rear mount I can then lower the rear of the gearbox as the engine pivots on it's mounts. (That's the way it's done on a Carlton anyway). The front pipes can stay in place and pivot with the engine.
If the front prop shaft won't slide into the rear enough to drop the donut, then you need to drop the whole propshaft and split it on the ground... See my earlier post warning of extra grief in this area...
But that means removing the whole rear section of the exhaust? Or are you saying that I should have unbolted the cat pipes from the engine, and removed the whole exhaust in one piece - cat pipes to rear box complete?
That's exactly what I meant. You need the cats off the car to get the box out. Removing the whole exhaust simply gives you space to move, as on the ground, you need every mm you can create.
Ambas example was done in a workshop. On a lift. So space is a little less critical.
Ahh right. I'm indoors - not exactly on the ground but not on a 2/4 post either - rear wheels are 8 inches up on concrete blocks, and fronts 16 inches on ramps.
You're doing nothing, whizz down to Yeovil and give the lad a hand :P
And Malcolm, ginsters? in your part of the country, are you sure?
Err - don't want those London folk down here spreading their germs everywhere. ;D
And yes Ginsters. We have supermarkets here and everything. Did the weekly/fortnightly shop this morning so picked up a couple of Cornish luverlies to tide me over.
If the flange is past it but cats are still sound couldn't you cut off both the cat and mid section flanges and rejoin with a sleeve clamp and paste,although that would require entire exhaust dropping ...just a thought
Possibly, but I suspect these are the original down pipes, and the heat-shielding has been rattling for ages and getting right on my t1ts/man-boobs. I suppose it depends what is easier/cheaper to get at the moment. Forgot to bring in my camera today so no piccies - will try to remember when I come in to finish the job.
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Ok sitrep at the 5pm coffee break time. Another 2h30 and....
Exhaust off in one piece. Well two actually - the rusty joint between the cat pipes and mid sections snapped off on one side. The back and mid boxes look in reasonable shape. The front pipes not so. The manifold nuts came off ok and are 15mm not 16mm? However, I think when I re-fit I'll be using the stainless aerostiffs that I use on the LC.
Heat-shields off. Thankfully no heat shield studs sheared, but then I did have them off a year or two back to replace the handbrake cable.
Propshaft off. Even with the centre and both ends unbolted it still wouldn't come out without prying against one of the donuts.
Electrics off. What pillock decided to cable tie the loom to the gearbox so that you can't just unplug the connectors and call it done. Grrr. Gonna have to cut the cable ties once I've got access to them. I think I've separated all the plugs - speedo sender, front oil pan, rear oil pan and large multi-block.
Gear shifter off. Two spring clips - relatively trivial.
Rear of box supported on trolley jack, and remove the gearbox rear support/mount. Kin ell - those two bolts into the chassis were tight. Suspect they were rusted inside the chassis box section, with no real access to wire brush or WD40.
Lower the rear of the box.
Getting there. Will probably carry on till between 7 and 8pm - hopefully the old box will be out by then. Next step is to take shower in ATF I think.
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When the pipe from mid section entering the back box broke through I managed to join it all back up together with a 51-55mm metal joint sleeve from Amazon for around £10.
Given they are still delivering and saves going out too might be a solution and for £20 both cats will the be rejoined.Just pull off all the old heat shields as they are not truly required and then the rattle is cured too
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When the pipe from mid section entering the back box broke through I managed to join it all back up together with a 51-55mm metal joint sleeve from Amazon for around £10.
Given they are still delivering and saves going out too might be a solution and for £20 both cats will the be rejoined.Just pull off all the old heat shields as they are not truly required and then the rattle is cured too
Ok thanks - might be a plan. I measure the cat pipes to be 59mm o/d at/just before the flange, and the mid box pipe 57mm o/d at/just before it's flange.
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Entertaining stuff here.... how many blokes does it take to change a gearbox? 20 people on the OOF forum giving directions and sound advice, whilst one bloke actually doing the spanners and skinning his knuckles.
For us die-hard Omega enthusiasts, this is something we all may have to consider in the future, so I'm finding it informative and entertaining, even if my gearbox contains proper cogs and a bit of EP oil, rather than solenoids and ATF.
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Pipes could well be thicker at that end .I was joining the back box to the curve that goes over the rear axle so probably thinner.
Sure they offered several diameter options and in a couple of sizes from 75mm long to 125mm.
Worth a try as it did work for mine
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BITS4REASONS E-TECH NEW MODEL HEAVY DUTY ADJUSTABLE EXHAUST PIPE JOINER/CONNECTOR 58MM TO 60MM, 130MM LONG.
£12-95 but delivery time has gone out big time
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I'm still working if you need any bits of exhaust pipe, we can expand reduce ID or OD to any size you want. Actually I've just been looking under mine, having finished mocking up a set of tubular manifolds. Covid has put paid to that project for now, or until I convert to a manual box one day. I will use some double ended clamp thingies to joint the system on, because the flanges had already been removed.
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.....
or until I convert to a manual box one day. .....
??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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It's off and I didn't get covered in ATF - wohooooo. In-fact, no ATF came out of the gearbox, and not very much out of the pipes to the oil cooler.
The gearbox I understand - the pipe couplings are higher than the sump filler plug. However I was expecting much more out of the pipes but I doubt I got more than half a pint. Will blow the pipes through next time and see how much comes out then
Attached the trolley jack+transmission cradle gizmo, undid the top three bell housing bolts, and pushed the trolley jack back. It separated quite easily so it's off, but not out. Unfortunatley the trolley jack+gizmo won't go low enough to get the damn thing out from under the car. I think 4 more inches of height will do it, so two more concrete blocks. I did consider using my engine crane to crane up the front of the car, but I'm not sure if the front slam panel would take the load. ::)
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I'm still working if you need any bits of exhaust pipe, we can expand reduce ID or OD to any size you want. Actually I've just been looking under mine, having finished mocking up a set of tubular manifolds. Covid has put paid to that project for now, or until I convert to a manual box one day. I will use some double ended clamp thingies to joint the system on, because the flanges had already been removed.
Thanks. Will take some photos newt time and post up the measurements.
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Entertaining stuff here.... how many blokes does it take to change a gearbox? 20 people on the OOF forum giving directions and sound advice, whilst one bloke actually doing the spanners and skinning his knuckles.
For us die-hard Omega enthusiasts, this is something we all may have to consider in the future, so I'm finding it informative and entertaining, even if my gearbox contains proper cogs and a bit of EP oil, rather than solenoids and ATF.
I did think about setting up a web-cam and live streaming it for you all to enjoy whilst you're all locked away from the bat plague. Obviously the sound would have to be suppressed in order to avoid the swear word censors. :o
I'd much rather have 20 people contributing pearls of wisdom - even if I mis-understand some of it (sorry DG). Or chose to ignore bits risking a 'told you so' response.
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Well its off and out...
(https://i.ibb.co/KN9SfBg/IMG-7355-A.jpg)
.. and hoisted onto the kitchen scales...
(https://i.ibb.co/z7NmFTj/IMG-7363-A.jpg)
... and opps me...
(https://i.ibb.co/C6pMbdZ/IMG-7364-A.jpg)
86 kg!!! That's still full of oil, rear mount on and Torque converter fitted.
Anyhow, new/replacement box prepped and ready - or so I thought.
(https://i.ibb.co/RbwR4v3/IMG-7366-A.jpg)
Then two hours of faffing about under the car, but the box just would not mate. So can anyone see the problem?
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That weighs as much as me ;D
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.. and hoisted onto the kitchen scales...
KITCHEN scales :o
do you cook in bulk batches and freeze stuff ;D :D
Mrs builder's Kitchen scales weigh in grams and oz , not STONES and KILOs ;D
did you remove the lifting eye bolt :-\
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Been watching this and well done to date :y
Locata you have two trying to get in the same place ???
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And some exhaust pictures...
(https://i.ibb.co/YQs50Yw/IMG-7358-A.jpg)
The 'near one' is still connected to the rest of the 'zorst. The far one isn't. One bolt sheared off as I was trying to undo it. The other bolt then snapped as I was lowering the exhaust to the ground. Some closeups of the rusty end of the cat pipe.
(https://i.ibb.co/3BNBQTv/IMG-7370-A.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/dPk6Zr4/IMG-7371-A.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/XJV26hz/IMG-7367-A.jpg)
The flange on the mid box section isn't too bad, and I think will go again. Therefore what I think I need to do is cut off the rusty flange on the cat pipe about here...
(https://i.ibb.co/ccSw9bv/IMG-7371-B.jpg)
And then locate a suitable sleeve/flange that will mate with the mid box.
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Maybe try and cut a fat washer to shape of cat side and weld... think that be easier....
Why will it not marry to engine?
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Locata you have two trying to get in the same place ???
And the banana goes to Robsey. There are two hollow locating 'dowels' on the back of the block. They locate the bell housing in the correct position however....
(https://i.ibb.co/jJNw464/IMG-7366-B.jpg)
...this gearbox has a dowel embedded on ne of the holes. So somehow I've either got to get a dowel out of the block, or out of the gearbox, coz two into one won't go.
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Maybe try and cut a fat washer to shape of cat side and weld... think that be easier....
I don't have welding O level.
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I still think cutting that knackered flange off then getting a sleeve to suit.It will be a better fit and also easier to assemble all back once in place.
Cant you get a small dremel to cut a slot in the dowel then fold it in on its self and remove
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Maybe try and cut a fat washer to shape of cat side and weld... think that be easier....
I don't have welding O level.
Fair enough, I might have a pair of 3.0 cats if stuck.... :-\
Hopefully one will come out easy enough. Sorry :'(
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Don't suppose you could get a drill in behind that dowel and persuade it out?
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That weighs as much as me ;D
I wish I only weighed the same as the gearbox ..... :-[
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Don't suppose you could get a drill in behind that dowel and persuade it out?
That was plan A. Unfortunatley the dowel is hollow, and a bolt goes up the middle of it into a threaded hole. The bolt is M12, and the I/D of the dowel is about 14mm. What that means is the other end of the hole that the dowel fits into is a smaller diameter than the dowel, so you can't just drive/punch it out from the other side.
Plan B was to tap a thread into the inside of the dowel, then insert a bolt with that thread, and pull it out. But I don't have an M16 end tap, my M16 1st tap won't go in far enough to cut a thread, and even if it did I don't think I've got any M16 bolts.
I've tried mole grips , but not surprisingly they didn't work. I've got some M16 and M18 drills, but couldn't find my hand drill - must be here at home somewhere. And working under the car is a bit iffey with an 80+Kg box on a trolley jack, so I think the wretched thing is is going to have to come out again.
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Maybe a bit of heat on one will help?
Hope you don't need to remove etc....
Maybe a cuppa and come back to it. Time to recharge and chill as I know what I'm like :D
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Cant you get a small dremel to cut a slot in the dowel then fold it in on its self and remove
The dowel goes about 5mm into the hole, and only about 2-3mm is proud of the gearbox. Sure I could slot the 2-3 mm that is proud, but no way to continue that slot inside the hole. I suppose If I cut the slot top and bottom a few mm wide I might be able to insert a flat plate in the slot and try to twist it out. If that fails then I'll just have to drill it out I think.
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.... But I don't have an M16 end tap, my M16 1st tap won't go in far enough to cut a thread, and even if it did I don't think I've got any M16 bolts. ....
I'll probably be able to find both for you at work .... I'll look for you tomorrow if you like. Unless you want to try & get it finished before the Post Office gets them to you
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You need to free the dowel from the gearbox.
It's an interference fit on the block and a push fit on the gearbox ;)
Starter for ten would be to heat the gearbox flange and use grips to remove it.
Failing this, use a hacksaw and notch the flange into the dowel. Again should twist out with grips.
Plenty of plusgas as well.
Trying to remove the dowel from the block will be a hiding to nothing.
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Thanks all - got the little bastard out...
(https://i.ibb.co/QbqwZBp/IMG-7374-A.jpg)
Managed to rant my M14 tap up the middle of it and then drift it out through the other end of the bolt hole. Perhaps not the kindest thing to do to a tap, but it's only a cheap set anyway.
Gearbox now back on, together with prop shaft and heat shields. Nearly forgot to do up the 6 torque converter bolts ::) Only remembered when I saw the plastic hole cover lying on the bench. Did an engine oil & filter change too whilst I was under there.
Just the exhaust to sort out now.
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Once all sorted don't forget ATF level check on first start up...
Have all set up ready or use a 12v pump to make easy light work of it...
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Hmmm. Just been looking at that well known internet auction site so beloved of many on here ;D
Seems like I can get replacement catalytic converters & pipes for about £50 a side delivered. Or I can get "Type Approved" ones for about £125 a side.
Anyone know what the difference (besides £75 a side) between the two is. Do I care if they're type approved or not?
And Yes I realise I'll have to get the lambdas out of the old pipes, or buy new ones of those too. But for circa £100 seems like a whole load of aggro saved.
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Type approved are road legal... ::)
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Type approved are road legal... ::)
Source?
5 minutes on google brings up this : https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/1899/introduction/made
My Omega appears to be a “a 220 relevant vehicle” (First used after March 1st 2001)
However, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/1899/regulation/4/made and https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/1899/regulation/5/made go on to state
(2) This regulation does not apply in relation to a replacement catalytic converter which is of a type that was approved before 31st October 2002.
Well, the car was manufactured in 2000, and sold in 2001 so the cat's must have been type approved before 31 Oct 2002?
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Basically, anything that left the factory with a cat requires a type approved one. Regardless of age.
If you lived in Durban or Damascus, then save the money and fit the cheaper ones. But you don't.
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Hmmm. Just been looking at that well known internet auction site so beloved of many on here ;D
Seems like I can get replacement catalytic converters & pipes for about £50 a side delivered. Or I can get "Type Approved" ones for about £125 a side.
Anyone know what the difference (besides £75 a side) between the two is. Do I care if they're type approved or not?
And Yes I realise I'll have to get the lambdas out of the old pipes, or buy new ones of those too. But for circa £100 seems like a whole load of aggro saved.
To be honest, nobody will check weather they are Emarked or not, they might if you lived in Germany and it was undergoing a TUV, but here in blighty, fit the cheap ones. :y
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Basically, anything that left the factory with a cat requires a type approved one. Regardless of age.
If you lived in Durban or Damascus, then save the money and fit the cheaper ones. But you don't.
Sorry, but that simply isn't true. Only cars first used on the road since 1st March 2001 (Y reg or later) need to use type approved replacement cats. That means that for the vast majority of Omegas fitting non type approved cats is fully compliant with the law. However since mine is a Y reg :(
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Basically, anything that left the factory with a cat requires a type approved one. Regardless of age.
If you lived in Durban or Damascus, then save the money and fit the cheaper ones. But you don't.
Sorry, but that simply isn't true. Only cars first used on the road since 1st March 2001 (Y reg or later) need to use type approved replacement cats. That means that for the vast majority of Omegas fitting non type approved cats is fully compliant with the law. However since mine is a Y reg :(
^^ this is true, having ordered cats for post 2001 and being refused the cheap ones(Golf mk4 1.6) cheap for up to 2001 about £50 ,2001 onwards double that and they look identical :-X
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I once had a debate with a tester regarding a cat delete on a '92 Granada Cosworth following an impact with a manhole cover... The idea being to simply swap out the smashed cats with the earlier downpipes.
That was the answer I was given then, circa 2004, and subsequent recent investigations into cat deletes on mid nineties cars produced nothing to contradict this.
If a car left the factory with a cat then it will be on the list regardless of the guidance criteria.
Basically boils down to the emissions testing criteria, and if the car should have a cat then it gets tested as such... Without the cat, it will fail.
Type approved cats are more expensive regardless of similarities because they are tested to ensure compliance with the vehicle type approval. Exactly the same as fitting non approved headlights etc ;)
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this sort of Clarifies
https://eactelford.co.uk/catalyst-type-approval/
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this sort of Clarifies
https://eactelford.co.uk/catalyst-type-approval/
:y
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A 'type approved' Cat means that the part is designed and manufactured such that the performance and lifespan is supposed to be at least as good as the original (and also type approved) factory part.
It's illegal in the UK to sell a non type approved Cat for fitment to any vehicle first registered after the 1st March 2001. The EU is similar.
However it's legal in the UK to fit non approved parts in the rest of the exhaust. Most of the rest of Europe don't permit this. EG Germany.
Non type approved cats for earlier vehicles can be of inferior quality with less precious metal. Hence they are cheaper. They won't last as long as a type approved version and will be less efficient.
A type approved Cat usually has the certificate embossed on the bottom of the main cat body, where it can easily be read with the car on a ramp.
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Hmmm. Just been looking at that well known internet auction site so beloved of many on here ;D
Seems like I can get replacement catalytic converters & pipes for about £50 a side delivered. Or I can get "Type Approved" ones for about £125 a side.
Anyone know what the difference (besides £75 a side) between the two is. Do I care if they're type approved or not?
And Yes I realise I'll have to get the lambdas out of the old pipes, or buy new ones of those too. But for circa £100 seems like a whole load of aggro saved.
To be honest, nobody will check weather they are Emarked or not, they might if you lived in Germany and it was undergoing a TUV, but here in blighty, fit the cheap ones. :y
That. The MOT tester will be pointing out all the visible structural rust to even look at the cats, let alone worry about them being 'approved'
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A 'type approved' Cat means that the part is designed and manufactured such that the performance and lifespan is supposed to be at least as good as the original (and also type approved) factory part.
It's illegal in the UK to sell a non type approved Cat for fitment to any vehicle first registered after the 1st March 2001. The EU is similar.
However it's legal in the UK to fit non approved parts in the rest of the exhaust. Most of the rest of Europe don't permit this. EG Germany.
Non type approved cats for earlier vehicles can be of inferior quality with less precious metal. Hence they are cheaper. They won't last as long as a type approved version and will be less efficient.
A
I've never had any vehicle I've presented for Mot/ car or Hgv, looked at for an EU mark anywhere.. The only one was Dvsa do check load rating of tyres, and the age on hgv's.
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Well I bit the bullet yesterday and today at 11:30 the UPS van turned up at the front door.
(https://i.ibb.co/qRywNWK/IMG-7377-A.jpg)
Close up of the manifold end. Can't see anything to worry about here :
(https://i.ibb.co/nkwd7X8/IMG-7377-B.jpg)
Close up of the mid pipe joins.
(https://i.ibb.co/BLDt9vb/IMG-7380-A.jpg)
Hmmm. Threaded M10 holes into the flange again. Really tempted to drill these out and just use stainless nuts and bolts to join everything up. Other option is to use stainless bolts into these threaded holes. What does the collective hive mind here think?
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Are you likely to ever have to remove them again? If so, I'd go the nut and bolt way. If not......whichever is easier for you.
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Nuts and bolts everytime. I wouldn't use stainless if there was even a tiny possibility that I might ever have to undo them
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
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Nuts and bolts everytime. I wouldn't use stainless if there was even a tiny possibility that I might ever have to undo them
They'd easily shear if you did have to undo them again ... ;)
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Are you being pedantic there, Andy? 8mm drill for an M8 bolt? ;D
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The cats look to be 'type approved'. What make are they?
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Because a 5/16, is a bit bigger, and allows bolts to fit better.
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The cats look to be 'type approved'. What make are they?
No I won't say it
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Because a 5/16, is a bit bigger, and allows bolts to fit better.
No it's not .... if anything it's a bit smaller. 5/16" = 7.9375mm
https://www.google.com/search?q=5%2F16+to+mm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=5%2F16&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j6j0l6.4094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
5/16 x 25.4 = 7.9375mm :y :y
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Are you being pedantic there, Andy? 8mm drill for an M8 bolt? ;D
No .... just wondered why a drill smaller than 8mm was being suggested for a M8 clearance drill. Tapping for M8 is 6.8mm which is near enough to 17/64" ;)
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Are you being pedantic there, Andy? 8mm drill for an M8 bolt? ;D
No .... just wondered why a drill smaller than 8mm was being suggested for a M8 clearance drill. Tapping for M8 is 6.8mm which is near enough to 17/64" ;)
I shall have to dig out my old Zeus book to check !
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Or use an M6 nut and bolt with a couple of washers and not drill anything... :D
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Are you being pedantic there, Andy? 8mm drill for an M8 bolt? ;D
No .... just wondered why a drill smaller than 8mm was being suggested for a M8 clearance drill. Tapping for M8 is 6.8mm which is near enough to 17/64" ;)
I shall have to dig out my old Zeus book to check !
Just take my word for it ;) ;)
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Because a 5/16, is a bit bigger, and allows bolts to fit better.
No it's not .... if anything it's a bit smaller. 5/16" = 7.9375mm
https://www.google.com/search?q=5%2F16+to+mm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=5%2F16&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j6j0l6.4094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
5/16 x 25.4 = 7.9375mm :y :y
Either chinqy Drill bits I got from my last job are bigger, or the bolts from same are smaller... :o I will measure .
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Yes, they're the type approved ones. The manufacturer is "BM". No idea if that's good, bad or indifferent. The thought process was...
Q) Do I need type approved or not?
A) Probably do need type approved legally - Y reg 2001, so after the cut-off date.
Q) What are the chances of getting caught if I went cheap?
A) Miniscule, verging on non existant.
Q) What are the downsides of going cheap?
A) Possible lower life expectancy, though I suspect some of that is marketing bullshine.
Q) What are the downsides of going type approved?
A) Well that's obvious - £70 a side.
Q) What are the upsides of going cheap?
A) Same as the previous answer.
Q) What are the upsides of going type approved?
A) Possible longer life, better for the environment, legally more defensible,
Q) Do I care about the environment?
A) Err - I'm driving a 20 year old gas guzzler. Greta ain't my friend.
So it boiled down to did I want to gamble £140 on a (possibly) earlier than necessary MOT emissions failure vs the aggro of having to do the job again. £140 is 2 tanks of petrol. Doing it all again is a day's work and whilst I quite enjoy tinkering I'm getting too old for this. Plus I'd never knowingly break the law ;D I realise others may have come to a different conclusion.
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Not sure what the objection to SS nut/bolts is?
I realise they aren't as strong as 8.8's and do have a tendency to bind when used in heat cycling applications. However, a well respected exhaust manufacturer (who visits this manor and has posted in this thread!) once told me words to the effect either use stainless nuts and steel bolts, or vice verca to avoid this. I've been using SS nuts and bolts on the mid section of the LC for years and never had any problems (although from memory they are M12 so considerably bigger).
Do I intend to take the exhaust off again? Not if I don't have to. However, failing to plan is planning to fail.
Oh - and I've only got metric drill bits. M8 it is then.
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Because a 5/16, is a bit bigger, and allows bolts to fit better.
No it's not .... if anything it's a bit smaller. 5/16" = 7.9375mm
https://www.google.com/search?q=5%2F16+to+mm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=5%2F16&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j6j0l6.4094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=5%2F16+to+mm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=5%2F16&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j6j0l6.4094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
5/16 x 25.4 = 7.9375mm :y :y
which is still adequate clearance for an M8 bolt
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Because a 5/16, is a bit bigger, and allows bolts to fit better.
No it's not .... if anything it's a bit smaller. 5/16" = 7.9375mm
https://www.google.com/search?q=5%2F16+to+mm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=5%2F16&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j6j0l6.4094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=5%2F16+to+mm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=5%2F16&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j6j0l6.4094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
5/16 x 25.4 = 7.9375mm :y :y
which is still adequate clearance for an M8 bolt
Never said it wasn't. Just curious why 5/16 was preferred over an 8mm
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Drill the flanges, out, fit nuts n bolts. 5/16 drill bit, then fit M8, nuts/bolts. :y
Why not use an 8mm drill ::) ::)
Because a 5/16, is a bit bigger, and allows bolts to fit better.
No it's not .... if anything it's a bit smaller. 5/16" = 7.9375mm
https://www.google.com/search?q=5%2F16+to+mm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=5%2F16&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j6j0l6.4094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=5%2F16+to+mm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB804GB804&oq=5%2F16&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j6j0l6.4094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
5/16 x 25.4 = 7.9375mm :y :y
which is still adequate clearance for an M8 bolt
Never said it wasn't. Just curious why 5/16 was preferred over an 8mm
Some of us haven't gone metric yet.
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Some of us haven't gone metric yet.
some of us did a long time ago.
But I've recently tapped a lot of M5 threads in holes drilled with a #29 drill bit** That's because I lent my 4.2mm bit and spare M5 tap to a friend to attach 12 hockey pucks to 6 sections of motorcycle tyres to upgrade their bell-silencers....
** number and letter drills - a particularly stupid American 'system'
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....
Some of us haven't gone metric yet.
it wasn't a metric vs Imperial debate. Big Griffin was using a 5/16" drill as it was believed to be a touch bigger than 8mm ie gave a bit more wiggle room .... as it is, 5/16" is actually a midge's dick smaller ;)
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....
Some of us haven't gone metric yet.
it wasn't a metric vs Imperial debate. Big Griffin was using a 5/16" drill as it was believed to be a touch bigger than 8mm ie gave a bit more wiggle room .... as it is, 5/16" is actually a midge's dick smaller ;)
A midge's dick is actually quite a large measurement. I believe the smallest measurement I have ever come across is a wrinkle on a pimple on a gnats left bollick. ;D
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....
Some of us haven't gone metric yet.
it wasn't a metric vs Imperial debate. Big Griffin was using a 5/16" drill as it was believed to be a touch bigger than 8mm ie gave a bit more wiggle room .... as it is, 5/16" is actually a midge's dick smaller ;)
A midge's dick is actually quite a large measurement. I believe the smallest measurement I have ever come across is a wrinkle on a pimple on a gnats left bollick. ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sitrep - Lunchtime on day 3.
Attempted to remove the lambda sensor from the separated cat pipe. Got it as hot as I can (don't have oxy but do have a 400 degC hot air gun) then started to turn it out. It turned about 180 degrees then went solid. even with my best crows foot spanner I ended up rounding off the head. So that's 0-1 down. Next took an angle grinder to the cat pipe that is still attached to the mid pipes. Separated relatively easily. Then got that lambda sensor as hot as I could - and it came out no problems. A 1-1 draw then.
Luckely I knew I had 2 new lambda sensors in the shed. I'd bought them for peanuts many years ago when the local dealer was getting rid of excess stock - P/n VX90509274. EPC says these are for a manual X30XE - the correct p/n for an auto is VX90509169. However comparing the old one I did get out the difference appears to be the length of the cable - the cable on the manual one is about 17 inches, the auto about 12. Not sure what else could be different, but I'm going to fit the 2 new ones.
Next problem was the rusted in bolts in the exhaust flanges. I tried drifting them out, but they weren't budging. I ended up angle grinding the heads off and then drilling through - M3 - M5 - M7 - M8. Wasn't till the final M8 that the remains of the old bolts let go. The flanges are quite rusty, but there is plenty of meat left for them to go again. Cleaned them up with a wire brush and good enough.
Final step before lunch was to refit the rear and mid box section to the car. Used 2 trolley jacks to lift it into position, slid on the 6 rubber hangars and re-fitted the 6 spring clips.
Lunch is another Ginsters pasty, packet of crisps, banana hot cross bun and a donut, washed down with a couple of cups of coffee.
Next step is to fit the new lambdas to the front pipes, and then see how good a fit they are to the car :P
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Very interesting, Malcolm. Never had a banana hot cross bun. ;D
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Caramel and blueberry ones are well lush 8)
Malcolm, re the lambdas lots of heat and wd40 and work it a quarter turn back and forth with a decent set of grips. That said 400° is about half what you need... Butane torch should be alot more effective, and Helfrods stock them and are open :y
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New (manual) vs old (auto) Lambdas.
(https://i.ibb.co/1mgsBxg/IMG-7389-A.jpg)
Yes I realise a lot more heat would probably help, but was hoping to get it finished today. I do have a (butane?) torch somewhere, but assuming the new lambdas work properly that job can wait till I've got less time ;D
Next job was to drill out the M8 flanges on the new cat pipes. However, I went looking through my boxes of bolts and couldn't find any M8's that were long enough. What I have got loads of is M8 manifold studs extracted from old C30SE/GET cylinder heads. Hmmm...
(https://i.ibb.co/c8K4Ghd/IMG-7382-A.jpg)
I don't think they're stainless, but on the other hand I've never seen a rusty one either. Anyhow, screw the short end into the threaded part of the cat pipes, and use stainess washers and aerostiffs on the other end - comme ca..
(https://i.ibb.co/XFVhXJ9/IMG-7385-A.jpg)
I like this - it gives two degrees of freedom - If it has to come apart again either the nut comes off the stud, or the stud unscrews from the cat pipes. Anyhow, the cat pipes went on relatively easily,
Next was to lower the car so the front and back are the same height - both about 8 ijches off he ground. Then unscrew the gearbox filler plug and top up. Managed to get 2.5L of Dextron in - which was the start of my problem; Presumably the gearbox was empty. Anyhow couldn't get any more in so crossed my fingers and started it up.
Back under the car, and continue squirting Dextron in. Bugga - only had 4L to start with, and managed to get all that in. A quick look at Haynes suggests dry capacity is 8.8L. Cock Not sure where I'll be able to get any more from tomorrow.
And the exhaust is blowing at both joints between the cat and mid pipes. Gonna need some exhaust putty. Still, at least the joints should come apart easily. ::)
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Helfrods should have ATF ;)
Failing that, a competent petrol station...
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Managed to get 5L of ATF and some exhaust putty from the local Halfords this morning. So out to the workshop to finish the job.
Did the exhaust putty first, then opened the gearbox filler plug. Got about 1.5L in before it started dribbling out with the engine not running. Started the engine, and then got about another 1.5L in. So something like 7L in total.
Got the car down off the ramps and went for a drive around the block. Almost immediately "Gearbox Fault" came up on the MID. Cranked the gear lever through all the gears
1 - Appears Ok. Good pull - away and torque.
2 - Appears Ok too.
3 - Hmmm not sure. It doesn't kick down to 1st/2nd. If you try to pull away in 3 it just slips the clutches and slowly accelerates.
D - Same as 3. No kick down at any speed.
R - Seems Ok.
So I took the car back to the workshop and gave up for the day. I'll open the filler plug up tomorrow and see if I can get any more ATF in (Haynes says 8.8L and so far I've only got 7L in) but this doesn't seem like low fluid to me? Seems more Electrical/Control? It doesn't cycle up/down through the gears in any gear, but 1 & 2 at least work properly when you're in their operating range (I think).
Any Ideas? I've got a feeling this box might be off a 3.2L, and my car is a 3.0L. Is there a difference in the ECU?
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Electrically the boxes are the same, the difference is how the engine and gearbox ecus communicate. Irrelevant as you kept your gearbox and engine ecus and looms. :y
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Electrically the boxes are the same, the difference is how the engine and gearbox ecus communicate. Irrelevant as you kept your gearbox and engine ecus and looms. :y
Ok, so is there a way to 'blink code' the gearbox ECU to try and find out what it thinks is wrong? I've got Tech 1 but not Tech 2, and Tech1 doesn't seem to want to talk to my Gearbox ECU.
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Electrically the boxes are the same, the difference is how the engine and gearbox ecus communicate. Irrelevant as you kept your gearbox and engine ecus and looms. :y
Ok, so is there a way to 'blink code' the gearbox ECU to try and find out what it thinks is wrong? I've got Tech 1 but not Tech 2, and Tech1 doesn't seem to want to talk to my Gearbox ECU.
You haven't tried topping it up yet.
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Ensure you have the round plug in on LH top, re check all plugs are fitted tight...
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Electrically the boxes are the same, the difference is how the engine and gearbox ecus communicate. Irrelevant as you kept your gearbox and engine ecus and looms. :y
Ok, so is there a way to 'blink code' the gearbox ECU to try and find out what it thinks is wrong? I've got Tech 1 but not Tech 2, and Tech1 doesn't seem to want to talk to my Gearbox ECU.
You haven't tried topping it up yet.
Not to mention the overweight electrical elephant in the corner...
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Ensure you have the round plug in on LH top, re check all plugs are fitted tight...
Pretty sure the round plug was seated properly. I removed it and re-inserted just in-case, but fairly sure that wasn't the problem.
The 4 pin square plug above the small sump - hmm - didn't look quite right so I unplugged and re-seated it.
Whilst I was there I might as well unplug and reseat the selector switch connector too.
Didn't bother with the speedo sender - that was working.
Started the car, and undid the GB filler plug. managed to get about 1L more in before it started coming out again. Total now about 8L, so perhaps another check in a few miles time.
Anyhow, went for a test drive - car now behaving properly, and no MID Gearbox warning. So, a tentative success so far, though I'm not signing it off as done just yet. Need another 280K miles on the clock before I'll accept the problem as fixed ;D
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There isn't a speedo sender on the Omega B :-X
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There isn't a speedo sender on the Omega B :-X
Stop complicating things ;D The gearbox is working now.
Time to concentrate on all the spaghetti that runs around the vehicle ;D
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There isn't a speedo sender on the Omega B :-X
What's the 2? pin connector on the rear of the box then? High on the box, just in-front of the prop-shaft flange.
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There isn't a speedo sender on the Omega B :-X
What's the 2? pin connector on the rear of the box then? High on the box, just in-front of the prop-shaft flange.
Al says stuff like that, then logs out. Been doing it for years ;D
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There isn't a speedo sender on the Omega B :-X
What's the 2? pin connector on the rear of the box then? High on the box, just in-front of the prop-shaft flange.
Presumably it's the gearbox output sender... Tells the gearbox ecu what the propshaft is doing relative to the input shaft for shifting purposes.
Omega B speedo is ABS ecu generated... BlRt wire that connects the ABS ecu to everything else. Literally.
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congratulations on fixing it :y
"I like it when a plan comes together"
Colonel John “Hannibal” Smith 1983 ;)
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.... BlRt wire that connects the ABS ecu to everything else. Literally.
Even the sunroof (when fitted) .... ???
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Yup. Even to the sunroof plug on non sunroof plod... ;D
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Yup. Even to the sunroof plug on non sunroof plod... ;D
Didn't do anything though even at silly mph ::)
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Yup. Even to the sunroof plug on non sunroof plod... ;D
Didn't do anything though even at silly mph ::)
Wrong setting ::)
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Yup. Even to the sunroof plug on non sunroof plod... ;D
Didn't do anything though even at silly mph ::)
Wrong setting ::)
.... elaborate ::)
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Set it to Auto mode... It's not particularly well explained, but it is mentioned in the manual :D
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Set it to Auto mode... It's not particularly well explained, but it is mentioned in the manual :D
I have neither the car nor manual any more ..... ::) ::)
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Set it to Auto mode... It's not particularly well explained, but it is mentioned in the manual :D
I have neither the car nor manual any more ..... ::) ::)
Nor do I :P