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[Sir Tigger KC]

.... is on manoeuvres!   

With Mother Theresa due to make a speech in Florence next week in which some say she will make the EU a multi £billion offer and the Tory Party conference coming up, there could be fireworks!   

[Bigron]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

[Nick W]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

I doubt Boris is capable of planning beyond the end of this week. Making him Foreign Secretary was a classic put-up-or-shut-up appointment, but he's doing what he always does when results are due: making trouble so he gets shifted somewhere else. I'm still surprised that they haven't made him Lord Boris of Piffle and Balderdash, as that would neutralise his effect and ambition.

[Lizzie Zoom]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

I doubt Boris is capable of planning beyond the end of this week. Making him Foreign Secretary was a classic put-up-or-shut-up appointment, but he's doing what he always does when results are due: making trouble so he gets shifted somewhere else. I'm still surprised that they haven't made him Lord Boris of Piffle and Balderdash, as that would neutralise his effect and ambition.

Indeed, he is a bumbling waffler and always has been.  He actually achieved very little himself during his days as Mayor of London.  He is a stereotypical old "toff" full of bluster, and the sooner May gets rid of him the better.  Don't forget he was at the forefront of the fraudulent claim on the side of the Brexit bus that we would be better off by £350 million a week if we left.  So he has been proved to be a liar as well!!

[STEMO]

The man is a buffoon. I would be as embarrassed to have him as PM as most right-minded Americans are to have Trump as president.

[TD]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

I doubt Boris is capable of planning beyond the end of this week. Making him Foreign Secretary was a classic put-up-or-shut-up appointment, but he's doing what he always does when results are due: making trouble so he gets shifted somewhere else. I'm still surprised that they haven't made him Lord Boris of Piffle and Balderdash, as that would neutralise his effect and ambition.

Indeed, he is a bumbling waffler and always has been.  He actually achieved very little himself during his days as Mayor of London.  He is a stereotypical old "toff" full of bluster, and the sooner May gets rid of him the better.  Don't forget he was at the forefront of the fraudulent claim on the side of the Brexit bus that we would be better off by £350 million a week if we left.  So he has been proved to be a liar as well!!

He did!
He bought all those water cannons that due elf and safety wasn't allowed to use 

[Bigron]

STEMO, I think that you underestimate both men; oh ok, maybe not Trump! 

Ron.

[Varche]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

I doubt Boris is capable of planning beyond the end of this week. Making him Foreign Secretary was a classic put-up-or-shut-up appointment, but he's doing what he always does when results are due: making trouble so he gets shifted somewhere else. I'm still surprised that they haven't made him Lord Boris of Piffle and Balderdash, as that would neutralise his effect and ambition.

Indeed, he is a bumbling waffler and always has been.  He actually achieved very little himself during his days as Mayor of London.  He is a stereotypical old "toff" full of bluster, and the sooner May gets rid of him the better.  Don't forget he was at the forefront of the fraudulent claim on the side of the Brexit bus that we would be better off by £350 million a week if we left.  So he has been proved to be a liar as well!!

Poor choice of words there. We did actually send the Eu 350 million a week. That is what the bus said. No lie there. Your words "better off by £350 million a week" is a subtle and wrong statement as after rebates the actual figure is less but still substantial and in positive territory. Here is a BBc reality check of the actual situation (which may or may not be correct!). It doesn't alter the fact that the Uk won't be sending endless money to the EU coffers after 2019. Wait up May might be telling us next week we will be sending endless monies to still be in the single market and not at the decision making table....  There are no decent quality politcians around at the moment. That includes may and Johnson. Merkel is the exception and she will be back next week in top gear mode     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41289080

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The statement on the bus was technically correct, if very misleading. We don't give the EU £350 million a week net, but the part we get back has to be spent the way they say it must be spent. So we will be taking back control of £350 million per week.
It then mentioned that we should fund our NHS instead, but it didn't actually mention spending £350 million per week extra on the NHS.
Both slogans just happened to be in close proximity on the bus. 
So, no lies at all. In fact by the standards of politicians it was honest to a fault. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

I doubt Boris is capable of planning beyond the end of this week. Making him Foreign Secretary was a classic put-up-or-shut-up appointment, but he's doing what he always does when results are due: making trouble so he gets shifted somewhere else. I'm still surprised that they haven't made him Lord Boris of Piffle and Balderdash, as that would neutralise his effect and ambition.

Indeed, he is a bumbling waffler and always has been.  He actually achieved very little himself during his days as Mayor of London.  He is a stereotypical old "toff" full of bluster, and the sooner May gets rid of him the better.  Don't forget he was at the forefront of the fraudulent claim on the side of the Brexit bus that we would be better off by £350 million a week if we left.  So he has been proved to be a liar as well!!

Poor choice of words there. We did actually send the Eu 350 million a week. That is what the bus said. No lie there. Your words "better off by £350 million a week" is a subtle and wrong statement as after rebates the actual figure is less but still substantial and in positive territory. Here is a BBc reality check of the actual situation (which may or may not be correct!). It doesn't alter the fact that the Uk won't be sending endless money to the EU coffers after 2019. Wait up May might be telling us next week we will be sending endless monies to still be in the single market and not at the decision making table....  There are no decent quality politcians around at the moment. That includes may and Johnson. Merkel is the exception and she will be back next week in top gear mode     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41289080

No Varche, it as you imply proved that figure was the Gross figure of our weekly contribution, but actually the Net figure after rebates was less than half that, BUT Johnson & Co did not specify that and deliberately advertised to the British public, even after it had been proved to be a "distortion of the truth", that we would have £350 million a week to spend on the NHS.  Any court in the land would deem that to be fraudulent  Johnson knew it to be a false statement that gave out an inaccurate message, so how can we trust him?; and I am a Conservative!  

[Doctor Gollum]

Stop reading the Daily Mail.

[Varche]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

I doubt Boris is capable of planning beyond the end of this week. Making him Foreign Secretary was a classic put-up-or-shut-up appointment, but he's doing what he always does when results are due: making trouble so he gets shifted somewhere else. I'm still surprised that they haven't made him Lord Boris of Piffle and Balderdash, as that would neutralise his effect and ambition.

Indeed, he is a bumbling waffler and always has been.  He actually achieved very little himself during his days as Mayor of London.  He is a stereotypical old "toff" full of bluster, and the sooner May gets rid of him the better.  Don't forget he was at the forefront of the fraudulent claim on the side of the Brexit bus that we would be better off by £350 million a week if we left.  So he has been proved to be a liar as well!!

Poor choice of words there. We did actually send the Eu 350 million a week. That is what the bus said. No lie there. Your words "better off by £350 million a week" is a subtle and wrong statement as after rebates the actual figure is less but still substantial and in positive territory. Here is a BBc reality check of the actual situation (which may or may not be correct!). It doesn't alter the fact that the Uk won't be sending endless money to the EU coffers after 2019. Wait up May might be telling us next week we will be sending endless monies to still be in the single market and not at the decision making table....  There are no decent quality politcians around at the moment. That includes may and Johnson. Merkel is the exception and she will be back next week in top gear mode     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41289080

No Varche, it as you imply proved that figure was the Gross figure of our weekly contribution, but actually the Net figure after rebates was less than half that, BUT Johnson & Co did not specify that and deliberately advertised to the British public, even after it had been proved to be a "distortion of the truth", that we would have £350 million a week to spend on the NHS.  Any court in the land would deem that to be fraudulent  Johnson knew it to be a false statement that gave out an inaccurate message, so how can we trust him?; and I am a Conservative!

Sad fact is we cannottrust any of the Tories including May the ultimate horse changer. Remember she presided over immigration. She was a staunch remainer.

[Lizzie Zoom]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

I doubt Boris is capable of planning beyond the end of this week. Making him Foreign Secretary was a classic put-up-or-shut-up appointment, but he's doing what he always does when results are due: making trouble so he gets shifted somewhere else. I'm still surprised that they haven't made him Lord Boris of Piffle and Balderdash, as that would neutralise his effect and ambition.

Indeed, he is a bumbling waffler and always has been.  He actually achieved very little himself during his days as Mayor of London.  He is a stereotypical old "toff" full of bluster, and the sooner May gets rid of him the better.  Don't forget he was at the forefront of the fraudulent claim on the side of the Brexit bus that we would be better off by £350 million a week if we left.  So he has been proved to be a liar as well!!

Poor choice of words there. We did actually send the Eu 350 million a week. That is what the bus said. No lie there. Your words "better off by £350 million a week" is a subtle and wrong statement as after rebates the actual figure is less but still substantial and in positive territory. Here is a BBc reality check of the actual situation (which may or may not be correct!). It doesn't alter the fact that the Uk won't be sending endless money to the EU coffers after 2019. Wait up May might be telling us next week we will be sending endless monies to still be in the single market and not at the decision making table....  There are no decent quality politcians around at the moment. That includes may and Johnson. Merkel is the exception and she will be back next week in top gear mode     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41289080

No Varche, it as you imply proved that figure was the Gross figure of our weekly contribution, but actually the Net figure after rebates was less than half that, BUT Johnson & Co did not specify that and deliberately advertised to the British public, even after it had been proved to be a "distortion of the truth", that we would have £350 million a week to spend on the NHS.  Any court in the land would deem that to be fraudulent  Johnson knew it to be a false statement that gave out an inaccurate message, so how can we trust him?; and I am a Conservative!

Sad fact is we cannottrust any of the Tories including May the ultimate horse changer. Remember she presided over immigration. She was a staunch remainer.

The trouble is Varche, I must admit, May has a poor record on the "success" front.  She has failed to support the police when she was Home Secretary, failing to give them, let alone maintain, the funding they need.  As PM she is still failing the police, and it is getting worse!

She certainly is pushing my faith in the Conservative Government.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The statement on the bus was technically correct, if very misleading. We don't give the EU £350 million a week net, but the part we get back has to be spent the way they say it must be spent. So we will be taking back control of £350 million per week.
It then mentioned that we should fund our NHS instead, but it didn't actually mention spending £350 million per week extra on the NHS.
Both slogans just happened to be in close proximity on the bus. 
So, no lies at all. In fact by the standards of politicians it was honest to a fault. 

I don't remember the message on the bus saying we get £350 million back each week just as soon as we give the EU £100 billion first.

[Varche]

Three speed EU.

Eurozone

Rest of EU taking in the migrants and buying German products

UK  not a member but paying handsomely for membership of single market and filling EU coffers to boot

Everyone happy.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Oh no they are not, in that scenario. 
The Tories are useless, have been since the demise of Thatcher. The alternative though, is beyond unthinkable. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

If anyone has forgotten, this is how the Brexit Battle Bus was seen and how it was interpreted.  Boris stood behind this statement:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/27/boris-johnson-stands-by-350million-vote-leave-bus-message-6600240/

 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The slogan is absolutely true. We do send the EU £350 million a week. It says lets fund our NHS instead. It doesn't mention spending £350 million a week extra on the NHS.
We do get some of the £350 million back, but we are not allowed to have control on how its spent. So, in theory, we could have an extra £350 million a week to spend on the NHS, but obviously that will never happen.
In political terms, it borders on honesty, in comparison to the usual downright lies we are served, and nowhere near as dishonest as many of the downright lies we got from the other side.
Doesn't matter now anyway, the outcome is what it is and as a country, we need to get on with it.
Cast our eyes toward the seas, as I believe Churchill said. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The slogan is absolutely true. We do send the EU £350 million a week. It says lets fund our NHS instead. It doesn't mention spending £350 million a week extra on the NHS.
We do get some of the £350 million back, but we are not allowed to have control on how its spent. So, in theory, we could have an extra £350 million a week to spend on the NHS, but obviously that will never happen.
In political terms, it borders on honesty, in comparison to the usual downright lies we are served, and nowhere near as dishonest as many of the downright lies we got from the other side.
Doesn't matter now anyway, the outcome is what it is and as a country, we need to get on with it.
Cast our eyes toward the seas, as I believe Churchill said. 

True.....but the implication is that the £350 million we get back will go to the NHS. It is misleading......deliberately so.

[Varche]

lets not get back into the nitty gritty otherwise someone will be dredging up Project Fear next and all the lies that turned out to be.

Any truth in the story doing the rounds that Cameron is coming back to lead the party and the country back into the EU we never left

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The slogan is absolutely true. We do send the EU £350 million a week. It says lets fund our NHS instead. It doesn't mention spending £350 million a week extra on the NHS.
We do get some of the £350 million back, but we are not allowed to have control on how its spent. So, in theory, we could have an extra £350 million a week to spend on the NHS, but obviously that will never happen.
In political terms, it borders on honesty, in comparison to the usual downright lies we are served, and nowhere near as dishonest as many of the downright lies we got from the other side.
Doesn't matter now anyway, the outcome is what it is and as a country, we need to get on with it.
Cast our eyes toward the seas, as I believe Churchill said. 

True.....but the implication is that the £350 million we get back will go to the NHS. It is misleading......deliberately so.

Folk should be aware that you cant trust a cast iron gaurantee from politicians (remember them from Cameron and Blair) so believing an implication.................

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

lets not get back into the nitty gritty otherwise someone will be dredging up Project Fear next and all the lies that turned out to be.

Any truth in the story doing the rounds that Cameron is coming back to lead the party and the country back into the EU we never left

And Blair coming back to Labour to save the country from itself. Its laughable fantasy, but Corbyn almost got to number 10, and May is still there, so anything could happen. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

The statement on the bus was just a suggestion of what we could do with the money that we (hopefully) won't be sending to Brussels when we have actually left the EU. 

1) It was never a commitment or a promise.  How anyone can construe that statement 'Lets fund our NHS instead!' as such, is so stupid that they should go immediately to the top of TB's cull list! 

2) Also it seems that many of these retards have been of the opinion that the £350m a week would be handed over to the NHS straight after the referendum, even before we have left the EU!    These people should be fast tracked to the top of TB's list! 

TB will be a very busy boy and will probably have to charge people for their bullets, as there will be too many to be funded by the taxpayer!   

[ronnyd]

The statement on the bus was just a suggestion of what we could do with the money that we (hopefully) won't be sending to Brussels when we have actually left the EU. 

1) It was never a commitment or a promise.  How anyone can construe that statement 'Lets fund our NHS instead!' as such, is so stupid that they should go immediately to the top of TB's cull list! 

2) Also it seems that many of these retards have been of the opinion that the £350m a week would be handed over to the NHS straight after the referendum, even before we have left the EU!    These people should be fast tracked to the top of TB's list! 

TB will be a very busy boy and will probably have to charge people for their bullets, as there will be too many to be funded by the taxpayer!   

He could always ask the NHS to contribute.

[Doctor Gollum]

Ok, I singled out the Daily Fail, but in reality, people should stop treating the self defecating lefties carrot munching media (social or otherwise) as news.

It is nothing more than shit stirring propaganda designed to disrupt and annoy.

I am all for free press, but the rubbish foisted upon us is in no way free in the intended sense ie free of bias, spin or influence. As such it should be silenced out of existence.

Just saying.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

You think the Daily Mail is left wing ? ! Or did I read it wrong ? 

[Lizzie Zoom]

The statement on the bus was just a suggestion of what we could do with the money that we (hopefully) won't be sending to Brussels when we have actually left the EU. 

1) It was never a commitment or a promise.  How anyone can construe that statement 'Lets fund our NHS instead!' as such, is so stupid that they should go immediately to the top of TB's cull list!  :

2) Also it seems that many of these retards have been of the opinion that the £350m a week would be handed over to the NHS straight after the referendum, even before we have left the EU!    These people should be fast tracked to the top of TB's list! 

TB will be a very busy boy and will probably have to charge people for their bullets, as there will be too many to be funded by the taxpayer!   

And that is exactly how the Brexiteers did it; the majority a high proportion of the voting public are stupid and will believe anything that seems "so good", hence we are now in a Brexit situation.  Those people were coned as they were fooled by Johnson & Co.

That is why  I, and now a growing number of others are hoping for a second referendum.  We need a chance to vote on facts, not promises and false hope.  The young know that, and opinion surveys are now suggesting a majority wanting a second vote. This will be a growing movement leading up to March 2019

[Doctor Gollum]

You think the Daily Mail is left wing ? ! Or did I read it wrong ? 

It isn't especially, but no less contemptible that the rest

[Lizzie Zoom]

...............and today the BBC have reported Johnson has repeated his claim that the UK will be a full £350 million per week better off when we leave!

FFS!!!

[Sir Tigger KC]

Actually Lizzie, I think that most of the complaints about the slogan on Boris's bus have come from embittered 'remainers'. 

I voted leave and don't regret it in the slightest and I don't know anybody else who voted for Britain to leave the EU who regrets it either, especially now that we have seen how the EU are conducting themselves in the 'Negotiations' and how they are now open about their ambitions for the United States of Europe! 

The idea that there is any sort of appetite for a second referendum is fantasy, in fact most opinion polls show that the British public accept BREXIT and just want the government to get on with it!   

[Lizzie Zoom]

Actually Lizzie, I think that most of the complaints about the slogan on Boris's bus have come from embittered 'remainers'. 

I voted leave and don't regret it in the slightest and I don't know anybody else who voted for Britain to leave the EU who regrets it either, especially now that we have seen how the EU are conducting themselves in the 'Negotiations' and how they are now open about their ambitions for the United States of Europe! 

The idea that there is any sort of appetite for a second referendum is fantasy, in fact most opinion polls show that the British public accept BREXIT and just want the government to get on with it!   

Did I say any different Sir Tigger?

[Doctor Gollum]

...............and today the BBC have reported Johnson has repeated his claim that the UK will be a full £350 million per week better off when we leave!

FFS!!!

I rest my case.

[Sir Tigger KC]

...............and today the BBC have reported Johnson has repeated his claim that the UK will be a full £350 million per week better off when we leave!

FFS!!!

The worst possible outcome for our EU membership was to have the referendum and voted to remain.  I'd rather we'd not had the referendum and just carried on than that scenario. 

The UK would have come under intense pressure to relinquish the rebate next year at the next round of EU budget talks.    If we had manged to cling on to the rebate this time round we would certainly have lost it the next time round (2026?), by which time national vetos will have been abolished, and decisions will be made by Qualified Majority Voting.   

How do you think that would have panned out?    Would the 27 have voted to let us keep some of our money? 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Actually Lizzie, I think that most of the complaints about the slogan on Boris's bus have come from embittered 'remainers'. 

I voted leave and don't regret it in the slightest and I don't know anybody else who voted for Britain to leave the EU who regrets it either, especially now that we have seen how the EU are conducting themselves in the 'Negotiations' and how they are now open about their ambitions for the United States of Europe! 

The idea that there is any sort of appetite for a second referendum is fantasy, in fact most opinion polls show that the British public accept BREXIT and just want the government to get on with it!   

Did I say any different Sir Tigger?

No you implied it though and by your yardstick that must mean it's the truth!   

[Bigron]

I think the damage was done when it changed from being the EEC to simply the EC. The former was simply a trading arrangement but the latter meant that it was political and allowed Europe to interfere with our law-making and sovereign rights.
We don't like that.
If it had remained the EEC, to which we originally signed up to, all of this drama, confusion and cost could have been avoided.
Politics are too important to be left to the politicians.

Ron.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The statement on the bus was just a suggestion of what we could do with the money that we (hopefully) won't be sending to Brussels when we have actually left the EU. 

1) It was never a commitment or a promise.  How anyone can construe that statement 'Lets fund our NHS instead!' as such, is so stupid that they should go immediately to the top of TB's cull list!  :

2) Also it seems that many of these retards have been of the opinion that the £350m a week would be handed over to the NHS straight after the referendum, even before we have left the EU!    These people should be fast tracked to the top of TB's list! 

TB will be a very busy boy and will probably have to charge people for their bullets, as there will be too many to be funded by the taxpayer!   

And that is exactly how the Brexiteers did it; the majority a high proportion of the voting public are stupid and will believe anything that seems "so good", hence we are now in a Brexit situation.  Those people were coned as they were fooled by Johnson & Co.

That is why  I, and now a growing number of others are hoping for a second referendum.  We need a chance to vote on facts, not promises and false hope.  The young know that, and opinion surveys are now suggesting a majority wanting a second vote. This will be a growing movement leading up to March 2019

This will only divide the country further, Lizzie. Why stop at two, or five or ten referendum. We lost. It happens.

First we will survive and then we will thrive.

I can't help feeling that David Davis, nice chap that he is, is out of his depth in these 'negotiations'......and I certainly don't believe we should have a situation where a handful of Tory ministers make decisions for the whole country. Parliament needs to be fully involved.

[Lizzie Zoom]

The statement on the bus was just a suggestion of what we could do with the money that we (hopefully) won't be sending to Brussels when we have actually left the EU. 

1) It was never a commitment or a promise.  How anyone can construe that statement 'Lets fund our NHS instead!' as such, is so stupid that they should go immediately to the top of TB's cull list!  :

2) Also it seems that many of these retards have been of the opinion that the £350m a week would be handed over to the NHS straight after the referendum, even before we have left the EU!    These people should be fast tracked to the top of TB's list! 

TB will be a very busy boy and will probably have to charge people for their bullets, as there will be too many to be funded by the taxpayer!   

And that is exactly how the Brexiteers did it; the majority a high proportion of the voting public are stupid and will believe anything that seems "so good", hence we are now in a Brexit situation.  Those people were coned as they were fooled by Johnson & Co.

That is why  I, and now a growing number of others are hoping for a second referendum.  We need a chance to vote on facts, not promises and false hope.  The young know that, and opinion surveys are now suggesting a majority wanting a second vote. This will be a growing movement leading up to March 2019

This will only divide the country further, Lizzie. Why stop at two, or five or ten referendum. We lost. It happens.

First we will survive and then we will thrive.

I can't help feeling that David Davis, nice chap that he is, is out of his depth in these 'negotiations'......and I certainly don't believe we should have a situation where a handful of Tory ministers make decisions for the whole country. Parliament needs to be fully involved.

That is the point Opti, the country is divided and unhappy about how Brexit is being handled.  There should be no problem, if the Brexiteers are really confident in the final deal, for the country to vote on that deal as a final decision.  That is democracy in action and will give everyone an opportunity to make a final judgement, and not be forced into what I call a "Charge go the Light Brigade" moment.


Ps I have deliberately repeated the word "Final" and mean it

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

...............and today the BBC have reported Johnson has repeated his claim that the UK will be a full £350 million per week better off when we leave!

FFS!!!

It is my understanding that he said "we will take back control of £350 million a week." This is completely accurate, unless the Govt. agree to keep paying money to the EU after we leave.

[Rods2]

More power to his elbow - he was always playing a waiting game, allowing May to handle the hot potato and then step in after the danger had passed! 

Ron.

I doubt Boris is capable of planning beyond the end of this week. Making him Foreign Secretary was a classic put-up-or-shut-up appointment, but he's doing what he always does when results are due: making trouble so he gets shifted somewhere else. I'm still surprised that they haven't made him Lord Boris of Piffle and Balderdash, as that would neutralise his effect and ambition.

Indeed, he is a bumbling waffler and always has been.  He actually achieved very little himself during his days as Mayor of London.  He is a stereotypical old "toff" full of bluster, and the sooner May gets rid of him the better.  Don't forget he was at the forefront of the fraudulent claim on the side of the Brexit bus that we would be better off by £350 million a week if we left.  So he has been proved to be a liar as well!!

Poor choice of words there. We did actually send the Eu 350 million a week. That is what the bus said. No lie there. Your words "better off by £350 million a week" is a subtle and wrong statement as after rebates the actual figure is less but still substantial and in positive territory. Here is a BBc reality check of the actual situation (which may or may not be correct!). It doesn't alter the fact that the Uk won't be sending endless money to the EU coffers after 2019. Wait up May might be telling us next week we will be sending endless monies to still be in the single market and not at the decision making table....  There are no decent quality politcians around at the moment. That includes may and Johnson. Merkel is the exception and she will be back next week in top gear mode     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41289080

No Varche, it as you imply proved that figure was the Gross figure of our weekly contribution, but actually the Net figure after rebates was less than half that, BUT Johnson & Co did not specify that and deliberately advertised to the British public, even after it had been proved to be a "distortion of the truth", that we would have £350 million a week to spend on the NHS.  Any court in the land would deem that to be fraudulent  Johnson knew it to be a false statement that gave out an inaccurate message, so how can we trust him?; and I am a Conservative!

And Remoaner project fear was the truth, nothing but the truth. Glass houses and stones comes to mind.

In 2016 we paid the EU £13.1bn £252m per week, we got back £4.5bn with a net contribution of £8.6bn or £166m per week. I have seen the figure of £10.6bn net contribution by the UK in the last year of the current EU budget agreement that runs out in 2020. iirc the £350m paid per week is our expected contribution from 2020 where the current EU budget agreement runs out and we will be expected to pay substantially more where the UK's GDP growth has been much better than most of the EU.

I wish left-wing Remoaners would change the record track as the three things they go on and on about are £350m, immigration and xenophobia and the way they present their arguments they are wrong on all three of them. When the most disgraceful deceitful thing with no basis in fact or what happened after the referendum was Remoaners project fear.

The fact that the EU is a dictatorship and not a democracy really matters. One of many examples: if the EU commission had to face the ballot box the crippling recession in Southern Europe wouldn't have happened along with how the Greek bailout was set up. German and French banks had lent much too much money to Greece. If Greece had defaulted that would have been the German and French Governments problem to let their banks fail or their respective governments bail them out. What the Germans and French colluded with the ECB and EU to do was force loans on to Greece which were immediately transferred to pay off the Greek loans held by German and French banks, transferring the debt from German and French banks on the Greek national debt which the Greek taxpayers have got to pay back. In a democracy, the  ECB monetary policy would not be set for 'Goldilocks' Germany's as the biggest beneficiary to make them even more dominant.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The statement on the bus was just a suggestion of what we could do with the money that we (hopefully) won't be sending to Brussels when we have actually left the EU. 

1) It was never a commitment or a promise.  How anyone can construe that statement 'Lets fund our NHS instead!' as such, is so stupid that they should go immediately to the top of TB's cull list!  :

2) Also it seems that many of these retards have been of the opinion that the £350m a week would be handed over to the NHS straight after the referendum, even before we have left the EU!    These people should be fast tracked to the top of TB's list! 

TB will be a very busy boy and will probably have to charge people for their bullets, as there will be too many to be funded by the taxpayer!   

And that is exactly how the Brexiteers did it; the majority a high proportion of the voting public are stupid and will believe anything that seems "so good", hence we are now in a Brexit situation.  Those people were coned as they were fooled by Johnson & Co.

That is why  I, and now a growing number of others are hoping for a second referendum.  We need a chance to vote on facts, not promises and false hope.  The young know that, and opinion surveys are now suggesting a majority wanting a second vote. This will be a growing movement leading up to March 2019

This will only divide the country further, Lizzie. Why stop at two, or five or ten referendum. We lost. It happens.

First we will survive and then we will thrive.

I can't help feeling that David Davis, nice chap that he is, is out of his depth in these 'negotiations'......and I certainly don't believe we should have a situation where a handful of Tory ministers make decisions for the whole country. Parliament needs to be fully involved.

That is the point Opti, the country is divided and unhappy about how Brexit is being handled.  There should be no problem, if the Brexiteers are really confident in the final deal, for the country to vote on that deal as a final decision.  That is democracy in action and will give everyone an opportunity to make a final judgement, and not be forced into what I call a "Charge go the Light Brigade" moment.


Ps I have deliberately repeated the word "Final" and mean it

The facts would be the same of we had a second referendum as they were when we had the first. I spent years studying the facts before making up my mind. Most people probably don't do that. By your logic, you could use exactly the same argument after each general election, as the parties all lie through their teeth to get votes.
Politicians tell lies. Plenty were told during the referendum campaign. I believe many more were told by the remain side than the leavers, but that's just my opinion.
Second referendums are a classic EU tactic when the voters don't believe their lies. They tell them a slightly different set of lies and make them vote again.
I'm astonished that someone with your life experience falls into this trap. Especially as it is being promoted by a cretin (Vince Cable) and the biggest liar in the history of UK politics (Tony Blair).
You know about the history of this country. Have some faith in its ability to govern itself and create its own wealth.
I'm sure you also know the long history of Empires, of which the EU is one. They all collapse, and it will too. Its just a matter of when.

[Varche]

Human nature being what it is the majority will go for the known option no matter how bad. It is why people stick in failed marriages. Better the devil you know and all that. Voting will just result in sticking with what we had.. the fear of the unknown puts most people off. That is the almost hysteria gripping large swathes of the country now.

Poor leadership and team members don't help. May should have sacked those that leaked info two weeks ago and today should have sacked Boris. Not having done so is just more weak leadership. Problem is as i said earlier, there isnt any talent to replace them with. It doesnt inspire confidence in the nation and we look weak to Brussels.  Ditto with talk of more referendums.

Hey that man Cablebmight just be right about being next PM 

[Rods2]

Part of the problem is that Parliament had become mainly a rubber stamping system using Statutory Instruments to give the nod to EU directives to make them UK laws. Leaving the EU means our politicians and government now have much more power and have to do much more which I hope will lead to much more able people becoming politicians.

An honest question to ask, if you were hiring people in your business how many of the current crop of politicians would you consider offering a job? My answer is very few.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I can't help feeling that David Davis, nice chap that he is, is out of his depth in these 'negotiations'......and I certainly don't believe we should have a situation where a handful of Tory ministers make decisions for the whole country. Parliament needs to be fully involved.

Despite the mainstream media painting a picture of these negotiations as a disaster for the UK and the many attempts to discredit David Davis, every time I see a press conference where his oppo Michel Barnier looks frustrated, irritated and repeats the word Impossible! it makes me feel that things are actually going quite well for Team GB! 

I'm glad that it is the Tories that are handling these talks as Bernie Ecclestone once compared dealing with Labour with dealing with a bunch of Boy Scouts, whereas dealing with the Tories was like dealing with a bunch of criminals!    I think that if we had a Labour government Comrade Corbyn and co would have already signed over that £100 billion with no questions asked!    And lets not forget, that handful of Tory Ministers are our democratically elected representatives!   

The best intervention in this that I have seen in recent weeks however was by Mervyn King the former Governor of the Bank of England.  Where he said in an interview on Newsnight last week that the Government should be busy making plans for a 'No Deal' scenario, and be seen by all to be making these preparations, and then maybe then the EU will get serious about talking about the future.    He also thinks that a 'No deal' scenario would not be the disaster that many predict.