Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 09 September 2018, 17:04:44

Title: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 09 September 2018, 17:04:44
Y342 has a rusty wheel arch, which last year I made a mess of repairing. Is there any way short of welding in a new section that I could make a more permanent repair? I wonder because this Omega, unlike others in my fleet, is running well and not terminally rusty.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9klkc19mx0ylxd/Y342WHEELarch.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 09 September 2018, 17:11:07
Have you removed the sill cover and wheel arch liner?
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Nick W on 09 September 2018, 17:45:57
No.


But an Omega arch repair is not a difficult part to make or fit using simple tools.
But you will have to paint the entire panel to make it look acceptable, which is where the difficulty and cost comes in.


And as Al wrote, pull the sill end cap, wheel arch liner and bumper end for a proper look. You'll find a lot more grot under each of them.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Tick Tock on 09 September 2018, 18:07:07
Y342 has a rusty wheel arch, which last year I made a mess of repairing. Is there any way short of welding in a new section that I could make a more permanent repair? I wonder because this Omega, unlike others in my fleet, is running well and not terminally rusty.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9klkc19mx0ylxd/Y342WHEELarch.jpg?dl=1)

Oh dear, that doesn't look good. What makes you think the car is not terminally rusty? If the rear wheel arch is as bad as that, then no doubt the sills aren't far behind, and you've not even mentioned the front chassis rails (not just in the front wheel arch above the subframe, but also under the radiator areas).

As already mentioned, rear wheel arch repairs are very doable, but would you want to spend a lot of time and effort sorting that out when the front of the car is probably crumbling away also, from the inside out? I'd recommend a proper assessment of the whole car including under the windscreen before embarking on wheel arches.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 09 September 2018, 18:22:49
Have you removed the sill cover and wheel arch liner?
Now you mention it, I did so last year, and had my friendly welder repair it.
I will investigate the other side, and maybe the front too, as Tick Tock advises. This car is a lovely drive, and I want to keep it.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9lcss1j5ehf0hk/Y342cill.jpg?dl=1)
 
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: b4ndit on 09 September 2018, 21:14:28
just repaired mine and behind the rear bumper was a mess along with the inner wheel arch but all good now :y
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 09 September 2018, 21:28:24
Thanks for the advice Tick Tock and b4ndit. I shall bear it in mind and investigate further. Stand by for further pics.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: ajsphead on 10 September 2018, 07:33:50
Outer arch repairs are very simple, just depends on how much has rotted passed the crease that forms the spot welded flange. Inner arch is not much more difficult, it just requires lots of card for templates and plenty of patience.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 10 September 2018, 19:58:22
Gentlemen, here are pics of my 2.6 manual CDX saloon. It is 18 years old, drives well, and I should like to keep it on the road for  a couple more years, but not at any price. Here are the rusty bits, tell me what you think.
Last year I got my ace welder to repair the nearside cill, and it passed its MOT test. Here is the right hand cill, and the front chassis.
RH rear cill end
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ulrvpd5fpws3q4b/RHcillEND.jpg?dl=1)
RH rear jacking point with crack in cill
(http://[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bfxu8nkg7k35s0/RHjackingPOINTcrack.jpg?dl=1)
RH cill, looking good to me
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/xp66gr72futqcb5/RHcill.jpg?dl=1)
RH front jacking point
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/9noc0unnw5rorsy/RHjackingPOINT.jpg?dl=1)
RH wheel arch
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/gf6rvk1om1kw5pz/RHwheelARCH.jpg?dl=1)
Left wishbone and chassis
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/qaxlgvm3mdaqlac/Y34leftWBONE.jpg?dl=1)
Left hand front chassis corner
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ot5geg8aozxi43f/Y34LHfrontHASSIScorner.jpg?dl=1)
Right hand chassis corner
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqq9msk7lkt2584/Y34rhCHASSIScorner.jpg?dl=1)
Right hand chassis corner
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqq9msk7lkt2584/Y34rhCHASSIScorner.jpg?dl=1)
Right hand wishbone and chassis
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/i7tl3qh6n7bwln4/Y34RHwishbone.jpg?dl=1)
Thank you for looking. It's an old car, but hopefully with a little more life in it!
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 10 September 2018, 20:13:32
You're confusing the subframe with the chassis...

Regardless, that right hand sill needs work at both ends...
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 10 September 2018, 21:05:53
if you want another couple of years....
any rust you can poke through needs welding
all the other rust needs treating with rust remedy or cure-rust  and all undersealed
would help if you squirted the insides of sills and chassis legs etc with supertrol or chainsaw bar and chain oil or similar thick oil (but it will leak out for a week or so )
Opel did a p155 poor job of rust prevention on these  >:(
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 10 September 2018, 21:07:51
You're confusing the subframe with the chassis...

Regardless, that right hand sill needs work at both ends...
So is the chassis the rectangular beams running from rear to front? They seem to disappear at the front.

I agree work is needed on the cill, but the left hand cill was much worse.

Thanks for the quick response.

It does not look too bad, does it?
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: ronnyd on 10 September 2018, 21:24:07
Most cars have body shells these days Terry but to some they are still called a chassis. I,m sure someone can explain it much better than i can.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Tick Tock on 10 September 2018, 23:22:07
Hi Terry, the following pics show just a couple of places worth checking out on your car, and can't really be seen from underneath. The extreme front of the chassis rails on both sides (just under where the front bumper crash bar is fitted) can rot away without you even noticing it. The picture shows the front bumper and crash bar removed to give you an idea where to look, and this only takes a few minutes by removing the headlight unit (3 screws) and looking down.

I haven't yet seen an omega where corrosion hasn't started in these areas, some just suffering from surface rust in and around the crash bar fixings. One recent example, I managed to pull away big chunks of chassis material by hand. Also check under the lower windscreen rubber. If the rubber strip has been bonded to the bottom of the screen, the chances are it may still be alright, but where the strip has just been pushed on, water will go under and around the bottom of the screen and rot the lower frame away..... and also enter the engine bay.

(http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/omega_frontchassisrot01.jpg)

(http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/omega_cdx224.jpg)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: VXL V6 on 10 September 2018, 23:23:14
You're confusing the subframe with the chassis...

Regardless, that right hand sill needs work at both ends...
So is the chassis the rectangular beams running from rear to front? They seem to disappear at the front.

I agree work is needed on the cill, but the left hand cill was much worse.

Thanks for the quick response.

It does not look too bad, does it?


Looking at those pictures it looks repairable to me. If you like the car and are prepared to spend the money to get it sorted then why not?

The outer sills can be replaced with pattern items as you know or you could cut out and patch as required, the front inner wing to chassis rail and engine subframe mount looks a heck of a lot better than a lot i've seen but would need grinding away to see the extent of the corrosion.

The difficulty is the arch repair (As other people have said) as per your subject title - you can buy arch repair panels from Carz2 but the real problem is paint match... Silver seems to be a problem to match properly, even swapping doors etc i've discovered that different Z157 panels sometimes don't match, I guess it depends if a car has sat outside in the sun all its life etc. 

Ultimately, we are all in the same boat now and having to work with what we have because the ability to find a rust free Omega for sale has long gone.


Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 12 September 2018, 12:21:16
Thanks to all for god advice. It doesn't look terminal in the other parts of the chassis, but clearly the RH cill needs attention.
Reverting to the appearance of the LH wheel arch (first pic), clearly last year I made a mess of touching it up, and the rust has leached through my rub down fill and respray job. At the end where I did a bit of filling it remains silver. I reckon for a longer lasting cheap repair it's no good rubbinbg down to bare metal, priming and respraying, I need in some way to seal over the bare metal, like the filler at the end has done. What's the best way of doing it?
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 September 2018, 12:22:46
Cut the rust out and weld in new metal...

Anything else is pretending  ;)

But to answer your question, that patch isn't rusty because the filler is hiding it not because there's no rust...
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: johnnydog on 12 September 2018, 12:48:37
Rubbing down to bare metal is a must if there are any defects under the paint. Rust doesn't always appear just as rusty coloured metal, if there are black deep rooted spots in the metal, they need removing prior to any work, so that the surface is totally spotless and pure metal in appearance with no marks (I don't mean scour marks).
The area where you filled will no doubt have rust under it - rust will lift filler eventually but that is why it hasn't shown through as yet. Have you ever seen a panel that looks ok paint wise, but has areas that have lifted? That is rust under filler. Rust under original paint as you know appears initially as small brown marks. If rust has been previously painted over, then it appears more like blisters that you can pop!
Remember that if you cut out the rusty section of wheelarch to what appears good clean metal, invariably it will have rust behind the clean metal too. Cut out as far as you can relative to the condition of the back of the metal you are removing. After any repairs, metal or filler, I would always try to inject some sort of wax rust protection (not underseal) / converter to the rear of the panel which will help to delay rust reappearing, but creates fire hazards later if a welding torch gets near it.
Always try to get a top coat on once the primer is dry. Primer alone is porous so doesn't give any protection to the metal underneath, as it is only intended to give good adhesion for the top coat.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Nick W on 12 September 2018, 17:25:15
Terry, your wheel arch, sills, chassis rails etc are rusting from the inside out where they join other panels. Treating the surface with magic potions or rubbing them down and covering them with filler is a total waste of time and effort.
There are two approaches to these problems:


     1. Ignore them until they're so bad you scrap the car.


     2. Cut ALL of the grot back to good metal, and weld in new. Welding little patches over the top might be good for a couple of years, so isn't worth doing
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 September 2018, 18:20:11
Terry, your wheel arch, sills, chassis rails etc are rusting from the inside out where they join other panels. Treating the surface with magic potions or rubbing them down and covering them with filler is a total waste of time and effort.
There are two approaches to these problems:


     1. Ignore them until it fails the MoT

Then either:

     2a. Cut ALL of the grot back to good metal, and weld in new. Welding little patches over the top might be good for a couple of years, so isn't worth doing.
     2b. You scrap it.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 12 September 2018, 19:18:46
Terry want's a couple more years out of it ,
repairing the holed parts with plates ,treating the rust and then using suoertrol will  give him a couple of years
doing nothing will see it fail next MOT
cutting out ALL the rust and replacing with fresh steel would be only worth doing if he wanted to keep it 5+ years
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 12 September 2018, 19:24:10
My oldest 2 Omegas are the least rusty, a pair of 2.5 manual estates. Both passed MOTs this year with little trouble. A Y reg 2.2 saloon failed MOT on rust recently and has been scrapped; scrappy gave me £75 for it, I sold the gearbox to enthusiasts for £50, used the differential to perk up one of he estates;
kept the catalyst too. My ex-police 2003 saloon and a 2.2 manual saloon will probably go next year.

The subject of this thread, a 2.6 manual saloon, is excellent mechanically, and I hope will give me 2 more years service. It needs some welding in the o/s cill to get through MOT this November, next year who knows.

Member ajsphead is welding his Omega all the while and hopefully will still be running it in 10 years time. Mine will not last that long. Curiously, my best Omega is the estate he sold me, little rust but now on its fourth differential.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 12 September 2018, 20:02:55
plate over any holes
then treat the rest
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAMMERITE-KURUST-250ML-CURE-RUST-KILLER-CONVERTS-RUSTY-METAL-ONE-COAT-TREATMENT/253827152697?epid=1805250026&hash=item3b1946fb39:g:kZMAAOSwrfVZWq~K

squirt in chassis rails and sills after
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Action-Can-Supertrol-Anti-Rust-Fluid-500Ml/112730856760?epid=1165484727&hash=item1a3f485d38:g:vbMAAOSwXaRaTQZ2

underseal over treated areas

cosmetics of the arches are far less important
(mot wise,unless it's rusted to a sharp edge or holed ,it's a pass)

a day spent doing this to your omega will slow the tinworm considerably
(my 25+ year old carlton had a lot less rust than the omega in the pics )
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 13 September 2018, 09:05:07
plate over any holes
then treat the rest
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAMMERITE-KURUST-250ML-CURE-RUST-KILLER-CONVERTS-RUSTY-METAL-ONE-COAT-TREATMENT/253827152697?epid=1805250026&hash=item3b1946fb39:g:kZMAAOSwrfVZWq~K

squirt in chassis rails and sills after
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Action-Can-Supertrol-Anti-Rust-Fluid-500Ml/112730856760?epid=1165484727&hash=item1a3f485d38:g:vbMAAOSwXaRaTQZ2

underseal over treated areas

cosmetics of the arches are far less important
(mot wise,unless it's rusted to a sharp edge or holed ,it's a pass)

a day spent doing this to your omega will slow the tinworm considerably
(my 25+ year old carlton had a lot less rust than the omega in the pics )
Excellent advice, that I shall follow.
I have long loved and enjoyed my Omegas, and my Senators before them, but I feel this period is coming to an end. My daughter-in-law's Rover Streetwise, whose head gasket failure was brought to my attention 4 years ago, struck me as a decent car to drive. Since my repair it has been trouble free, and looks like outliving  my Omegas. There must be many other decent cars out there.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: TestOmega on 14 September 2018, 02:09:30
I don't know why you have issues paint matching. There are outfits which can create spray cans for your paint code.

I am in Canada and the following folks here create spray cans with incredible matching accuracy. I have tried it on a Nissan, Toyota and Catera (your Omega B) here with fantastic results. I am not sure if they will post you a can or too that you require. They are very good people.

http://cawthraautomotive.com/

Just sharing if as a long shot it could help.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Nick W on 14 September 2018, 07:13:14
Paint matching isn't an issue here either, there are plenty of suppliers who will do it while you wait either in bulk or cans. Although I wouldn't want to paint a quarter panel with rattle cans.


The problem with this sort of job is the sheer amount of time, effort and money expended on an 18 year old car that is worthless.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 14 September 2018, 08:56:35

The problem with this sort of job is the sheer amount of time, effort and money expended on an 18 year old car that is worthless.
Not worthless  ::)
look at the many threads about people trying to find cars to replace omega
many involving spending £10k +
even if you paid a welder and a body shop to sort out the rust on a good omega (by good i mean savable ,some rust,good mechanicals) say 2 grand , it would be good for a fair few years ,offset that against depreciation of a newer car and the expensive parts when it goes wrong (compared to omega parts which are p155 cheap ,because evreyone considers them "worthless" scrap)
 OK, so you would not get your money back if you sorted an omega and tried to sell it , BUT , 3 grand spent on an omega that would be good for 5+years (longer if rustproofed well ) is good bangernomics IF lard arse barge motoring is where you want to be.
it's just a real shame that the baked bean can steal opel made omegas from still had tomato juice residue and they made such a p155 poor job of rust prevention   :(
 
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 September 2018, 11:38:48
Quote
Not worthless  ::)
look at the many threads about people trying to find cars to replace omega
many involving spending £10k +
Don't delude yourself.

Those people have, largely, used it as an excuse to move up in car. The Omega used to be a £2-3k purchase. It is now a sub £500 way to avoid walking.

Replacing an Omega is now a £3-500 decision. Buying a 5 year old Jag or Merc or Passat is a lifestyle choice pure and simple.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 14 September 2018, 12:52:03

Those people have, largely, used it as an excuse to move up in car. The Omega used to be a £2-3k purchase. It is now a sub £500 way to avoid walking.
if you set a budget of sub £500 ,you'd expect maybe 12 months motoring at best then scrap what ever you buy ,recovering £100 in scrap value  ,so 400/12 months =£33 a month , if your budget was that tight, you'd have to be insane to buy a car that does 25 MPG  :o

Replacing an Omega is now a £3-500 decision. Buying a 5 year old Jag or Merc or Passat is a lifestyle choice pure and simple.
Driving an omega is a lifestyle choice , some of us are happy to pay and do work on an omega because we like RWD comfy vauxhall barges.

If it was all down to cost alone, no one would drive big thirsty cars, some want a nice shiny car  to impress everyone, I don't care what others think about the car i drive, some will think "nice old vauxhall, wish i still had mine," lost count of how many times i heard that over the years  ::), some will look at the reg plate and think I'm a pauper .

I used to work for a large car lease company ,drove everything going at the time,from ford to merc to porche ,even older PX cars at the time, the car i chose was a vauxhall carlton, drove them for 18 years as a daily drive ,also went to meets and shows. due to health reasons (not rust because i cared for my carlton) i had to move to an auto, i found an omega . i will spend time and money way beyond economic sense to keep said omega as a daily, because i like it.

a few members of this forum have had omegas ,they went rusty or required expensive repairs and chose to move on to other cars which better suite their budget and needs, fair enough,but  why slagging off omegas as worthless rot boxes ?
  There are also enthusiasts with omegas that have them because they like them.

this thread is about rust, if you spend time and money on rust prevention, you can extend the life of a car you like . if it was an e type jag with rust and not an omega ,would you say it's worthless  :-\ because it needs a bit of welding and rust treatment ? probably not

would i want to swap driving an omega for driving an e type jag , if money where no object , good god no !
but if money was no object , i'd nip down to asda and buy myself a new leg ,so i can drive a manual again  :P
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: tunnie on 14 September 2018, 13:19:09
Thing is rusty wheel arches are just cosmetic, you don't need to fix it. The real problem areas which have been highlighted before are hidden: sills and front chassis area, that's real killer area.

Mine is generally rust free body wise, nothing on the arches or doors, but the sills had gone. (now fixed) It's only a matter of time before the front chassis goes, that extra plate was starting to go a bit soft in one of the corners on my last status check. As we know that area is not worth repairing at-all.

Think I've got maybe 2-3 years left in the 3.2, then sadly it will be off to make some bake been tins.  :'(
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: ajsphead on 14 September 2018, 14:47:30
Quote
Not worthless  ::)
look at the many threads about people trying to find cars to replace omega
many involving spending £10k +
Don't delude yourself.

Those people have, largely, used it as an excuse to move up in car. The Omega used to be a £2-3k purchase. It is now a sub £500 way to avoid walking.

Replacing an Omega is now a £3-500 decision. Buying a 5 year old Jag or Merc or Passat is a lifestyle choice pure and simple.

Not entirely so if you get into the "modern classic" market which is waking up to Omegas. The word is that smart people should take advantage of people selling them cheap and treat them as a future smart buy. Because they are still relatively simple bodily and mechanically they can still be done up for peanuts.

They can't be oversold, we're nowhere near that and probably never will be but they can now be undersold.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Nick W on 14 September 2018, 16:24:11
Quote
Not worthless  ::)
look at the many threads about people trying to find cars to replace omega
many involving spending £10k +
Don't delude yourself.

Those people have, largely, used it as an excuse to move up in car. The Omega used to be a £2-3k purchase. It is now a sub £500 way to avoid walking.

Replacing an Omega is now a £3-500 decision. Buying a 5 year old Jag or Merc or Passat is a lifestyle choice pure and simple.


exactly.
I've just got rid of mine because it wasn't worth spending any more money or time on for a car that I don't need. I paid £1600 for it 8 years ago, so a replacement would be a V70 for about £2.5k.


Any car that is readily available for £500 is essentially worthless. That's a fact, not slagging them off.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 14 September 2018, 16:49:00

I've just got rid of mine because it wasn't worth spending any more money or time on for a car that I don't need. I paid £1600 for it 8 years ago, so a replacement would be a V70 for about £2.5k.
so an omega is worthless to you, because you no longer need one and have found a different car that suites your needs and budget , which also needed rust repair ,I assume you sold the unwanted omega  :-\ for money ££  :P so not worthless  ;D
Any car that is readily available for £500 is essentially worthless. That's a fact, not slagging them off.
a car that costs £500 is worth £500 ,unless you buy unwisely  :y
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 September 2018, 18:10:32
And why I replaced my £350 mot failure omega  for the first interesting sub £450 car with at least 6 months ticket.

And actually, clutch notwithstanding, it has saved me enough fuel to re coup every penny spent on the Omega and clutch 8)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 September 2018, 18:24:04
Quote
Not worthless  ::)
look at the many threads about people trying to find cars to replace omega
many involving spending £10k +
Don't delude yourself.

Those people have, largely, used it as an excuse to move up in car. The Omega used to be a £2-3k purchase. It is now a sub £500 way to avoid walking.

Replacing an Omega is now a £3-500 decision. Buying a 5 year old Jag or Merc or Passat is a lifestyle choice pure and simple.

Not entirely so if you get into the "modern classic" market which is waking up to Omegas. The word is that smart people should take advantage of people selling them cheap and treat them as a future smart buy. Because they are still relatively simple bodily and mechanically they can still be done up for peanuts.

They can't be oversold, we're nowhere near that and probably never will be but they can now be undersold.
You have to have a good car to start with. And like it as not, most are well past the mileage acceptable for true classic status, however nice the owner might wish their car to be.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: cam.in.head on 14 September 2018, 18:45:17
I think what it seems to come down to with any car (usually older ones) is that there are two types of owner distinctly.
Type 1 who runs an older car (be it omega or whatever)because it is cheap luxury motoring and you can get a lot of features for your money.they are used purely as transport and will be scrapped when any repair costs /mot become financially unrealistic..they will be maintained in a safe roadworthy manner until no longer viable.so extensive welding or engine repairs will write the car off.
Then there is type 2. Someone who runs a car because they want to run that particular car.these are the enthusiasts. They will maintain the car regardless of cost with no intention of ever selling it.any car (with maybee some exceptions ?)can be made to last indefinately.after all if you can take a rusty shell from a field that hasn’t seen the road in years and restore it then maintaining a running car should be a piece of cake.sure it will be doubt need welding as the years go by ,engine work ,paint,etc etc but it’s all doable.
There are most likely owners of both types on here and maybee some in between and there are no laws saying you can’t do either so we will !
I have vehicles,some of which I’ve owned over 30 years and will never part with. My omega will probably be one of them!
Omegas will be the classics of the future just like everyday cars from the past are now. When everyone was driving a new Morris minor they wouldn’t have thought they would become future classics either
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 14 September 2018, 19:49:13
Well put cam.in.head
I guess I'm an enthusiast
It was the same thing 10+ years ago when ebay was full of Carltons
many people got shot when repairs and rust meant doing work or spending money.
I had a 93 (which i had sat un-used for 2 years as a spare) but lost storage ,so the 93 car became my daily driver, and sadly I let 2 go for scrap. I stocked up on cheap used spares as they got broke and scrapped, plus service parts came down in price.
I also spent many hours each year cleaning and rust proofing the one remaining carlton , just said goodbye to it this year .
now there are very few carltons about , look on ebay
4 x 4 bangers and 1 x LC at only £99,950.00  :o
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 September 2018, 20:56:36
Scrapping a rotten base Desmond does not define a non believer.

I would possibly have clung onto my ex plod '54 estate, having personally put 185k on it, but it would only be a worthless novelty with 280k and three write offs in in its past.

My long term attention is focused a little further up the pecking order, and I felt that the time had come to move my previous Omegas on to new homes ;)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: ronnyd on 14 September 2018, 21:51:21
I think what it seems to come down to with any car (usually older ones) is that there are two types of owner distinctly.
Type 1 who runs an older car (be it omega or whatever)because it is cheap luxury motoring and you can get a lot of features for your money.they are used purely as transport and will be scrapped when any repair costs /mot become financially unrealistic..they will be maintained in a safe roadworthy manner until no longer viable.so extensive welding or engine repairs will write the car off.
Then there is type 2. Someone who runs a car because they want to run that particular car.these are the enthusiasts. They will maintain the car regardless of cost with no intention of ever selling it.any car (with maybee some exceptions ?)can be made to last indefinately.after all if you can take a rusty shell from a field that hasn’t seen the road in years and restore it then maintaining a running car should be a piece of cake.sure it will be doubt need welding as the years go by ,engine work ,paint,etc etc but it’s all doable.
There are most likely owners of both types on here and maybee some in between and there are no laws saying you can’t do either so we will !
I have vehicles,some of which I’ve owned over 30 years and will never part with. My omega will probably be one of them!
Omegas will be the classics of the future just like everyday cars from the past are now. When everyone was driving a new Morris minor they wouldn’t have thought they would become future classics either
Puts me firmly into type 1 but am not looking forward to the day when Desmond goes, as the newer cars just won,t be the same for me, but will just service a need to get from A to B. Which is what the Desmond does now i suppose. :D
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 14 September 2018, 22:01:14
Well put cam.in.head
I guess I'm an enthusiast
It was the same thing 10+ years ago when ebay was full of Carltons
many people got shot when repairs and rust meant doing work or spending money.
I had a 93 (which i had sat un-used for 2 years as a spare) but lost storage ,so the 93 car became my daily driver, and sadly I let 2 go for scrap. I stocked up on cheap used spares as they got broke and scrapped, plus service parts came down in price.
I also spent many hours each year cleaning and rust proofing the one remaining carlton , just said goodbye to it this year .
now there are very few carltons about , look on ebay
4 x 4 bangers and 1 x LC at only £99,950.00  :o
I wonder if that Lotus Carlton is rust free? L reg and only 37000 miles, sounds good, and comes with a new MOT. I saw another immaculate Carlton recently, in NYPD trim, with a Lexus V8 engine, apparently the car had been a 'barn find'.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zm3uzuf4kcoydne/NYPDfront.jpg?dl=1)
 
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: BazaJT on 14 September 2018, 22:10:20
Had a Mk1 Carlton 2L once.On tick over timing chain rattled like a bag of spanners but get some revs on it and it quietened down considerably.It also blew oil out of the air filter :o despite this it went pretty well and never once let me down,finished up straight swapping it for a MkII Rover P6 2.2.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 15 September 2018, 08:34:36
This morning I see that £99,500 Carlton is no longer available, e-bay offers me as similar a Vauxhall Rascal tipper truck, not quite the same.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: andyc on 15 September 2018, 10:12:58
When a chassis leg rots out

(http://i.imgur.com/TEdUj1e.jpg) (https://imgur.com/TEdUj1e)

(http://i.imgur.com/4UNYCQt.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/4UNYCQt)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 15 September 2018, 16:09:09
In CAR S.O.S. I have often wondered how Fuzz and the lads restore rusty old wrecks into roadworthy cars. The audience is shown little of the major body rebuilding that must have taken place in every programme. The previous post shows a wreck of a car apparently being restored, sparing no expense. Is that really an Omega?
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Nick W on 15 September 2018, 17:08:06
That sort of repair isn't particularly difficult, but it is really time-consuming. Which means seriously expensive if you pay someone to do it, or a labour of love if you DIY. And an Omega simply isn't worth it, as that won't be the only job of such magnitude.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: cam.in.head on 15 September 2018, 17:58:05
Dont get me wrong i wouldnt criticise either types of owner and to someone who cannot do their own repairs and cannot afford a garage to do it would in most cases end up with the car being written off .(unless they had a friend who would help/do it for free) the car would then survive to live another day.nothing is unrepairable to the most devoted owner exept obviously a burnt out shell or badly accident damaged one.and even then there are exeptions i suppose.
Personally i would repair most things rather than replace .its just the way i was brought up. You get something you like/want.look after it and keep it until you find something you want better or otherwise !.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 15 September 2018, 18:18:30
Dont get me wrong i wouldnt criticise either types of owner and to someone who cannot do their own repairs and cannot afford a garage to do it would in most cases end up with the car being written off .(unless they had a friend who would help/do it for free) the car would then survive to live another day.nothing is unrepairable to the most devoted owner exept obviously a burnt out shell or badly accident damaged one.and even then there are exeptions i suppose.
Personally i would repair most things rather than replace .its just the way i was brought up. You get something you like/want.look after it and keep it until you find something you want better or otherwise !.

I agree.  That is why I am going to 'invest' many more pound notes to keep my precious Omega going for as long as I can :D :y
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Nick W on 15 September 2018, 19:28:14
Dont get me wrong i wouldnt criticise either types of owner and to someone who cannot do their own repairs and cannot afford a garage to do it would in most cases end up with the car being written off .(unless they had a friend who would help/do it for free) the car would then survive to live another day.nothing is unrepairable to the most devoted owner exept obviously a burnt out shell or badly accident damaged one.and even then there are exeptions i suppose.
Personally i would repair most things rather than replace .its just the way i was brought up. You get something you like/want.look after it and keep it until you find something you want better or otherwise !.

I agree.  That is why I am going to 'invest' many more pound notes to keep my precious Omega going for as long as I can :D :y


I agree with both of you. I had the Omega for 8.5 years, but you have to honest - things do get to a stage where making increasingly complex repairs simply isn't worth it. We all have a different idea of where that line is.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: cam.in.head on 16 September 2018, 10:33:57
Probably when it stops being enjoyable .
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Tick Tock on 16 September 2018, 10:54:50
Exactly - you need to enjoy repairing Omegas if they're going to last. I very much think of it as another hobby for me, and at least in my senior years it means I keep sort of active crawling around under the old girl getting covered in crap.

I've had an CD estate on the driveway going nowhere for the last couple of years and decided a couple of weeks ago to do something with it. Keeping it for spares was an original thought, but with the other estate CDX as a weekly drive and in tip top condition, I got the urge to go through it and make sure things weren't too far gone. New wishbones & steering rodsfitted last week. So far the front wheel arches & sills are all tidy now and protected inside and out, the front end behind the bumper is all sorted and protected....... I haven't even got to the rear arches and back end, so there's still a hell of a lot of work to do, not to mention cambelt, cam covers, handbrake cable, drilling out broken rusty screws, etc.

Sounds like hard work? It's enjoyable and feel as though I'm saving something in a throw-away society. Financially the car owes me nothing, and I'll easily get the budget down under £300 for a reliable winter runner.

Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: MonzaGSE on 16 September 2018, 11:58:41
Pics of my 95 omega mv6. Thought they fit good in this discussion:)
(https://s33.postimg.cc/au8zgly9r/0_DD84298-7_C4_C-4437-8_E21-0_E2_EC47371_DB.jpg)
(https://s33.postimg.cc/qshp6pxmn/418_E3402-3_F71-469_F-905_C-_C1_B1_C224_CCC2.jpg)
(https://s33.postimg.cc/jp9tr2pm7/684_FDA0_E-0_C73-40_B4-_A431-8_C81_AB011_BE3.jpg)
(https://s33.postimg.cc/mjcz4k233/B4557060-8603-4073-8473-_FD0_C73_D5_A298.jpg)
(https://s33.postimg.cc/wgnzxmp4f/2691_F1_DE-485_C-401_C-_BD2_E-_ACE9_E766_E3_B5.jpg)
(https://s33.postimg.cc/4gjwdcdy7/CBDC0344-_D477-4307-9_C1_B-_F38723169231.jpg)
Had the car for 10 years, done 465.000 kms. Do much mechanical and electrical work myself but not bodywork. Stripped down the rear end and delivered it to the welders last summer. Got it back this summer:) changed rear left entire wing, rear right wheelarch, backplate behind the bumper, both inside wings and wheelhouses, spare wheel well had holes big enough to put your head through, boot floor patched up everywhere, rear diff mounts changed, rear damper and spring mounts changed and most of the chassi rails back there. They looked pretty much like the one in the picture earlier in this thread. When i went to see the car up on the ramp they had a transmission jack supporting the trailer coupling because they feared the car could collapse. Also rear sills changed. And many smaller welding jobs.
I got a very good price, but of course i could have bought probably three decent omega v6 even here in norway for that price. Earlier i felt the need to defend such repairs, but now that im older i dont care anymore:) part of being an enthusiast i guess. My car, my money and allthough i could get another omega to replace it, it just wouldnt be the same:)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: robson on 16 September 2018, 13:56:30
What is it about omegas and old people I am the same my other half keeps saying why don't you get a newer car,I love my omega and will keep it as long as possible.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 16 September 2018, 15:42:08
What is it about omegas and old people I am the same my other half keeps saying why don't you get a newer car,I love my omega and will keep it as long as possible.

It is simply because of this:

(https://s8.postimg.cc/6dq8hagx1/Car_Repaired_2017.jpg)

A car with everything us older drivers need, and looking as good as many "new" cars 8) 8) :-* ;)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 16 September 2018, 16:05:14
Very nice Lizzie  :)
don't see many NON star silver 3 omega B2  ;D
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 16 September 2018, 16:47:47
Very nice Lizzie  :)
don't see many NON star silver 3 omega B2  ;D

Thanks :y   No, I have just seen one other ;)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: cam.in.head on 16 September 2018, 17:33:25
Yes seconded.fantastic example and does look good in that colour.thats not to say star silver ones dont because they do its just that its nice seeing them in a different colour.if that all makes sense.
You can tell from looking at your car lizzie that it has and will be maintained in as near "as new" condition as it can be and we know its because YOU want to. Thats the best and only reason there should be.
Sometimes its a personal challenge,sometimes its to be proud of something and sometimes its to show off a bit( as the bandit was commented on by frog" you do do it well !" ) rip burt.....
But its slways a great feeling to drive around in a car thats still alive because of your own efforts and abilities that others may have let go to scrap years ago due to neglect. After all they all start off immaculate !

Ps. I bet terry never knew what thread he was starting here !  !
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 16 September 2018, 17:38:40
I also have a 3.2 in that colour. Its a year older and has done 100,000 miles more, but looks almost as good tbh, due to being looked after well. It also doesn't have that flag on its number plates, as I took them off and had new ones made.  :)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 16 September 2018, 18:32:29
Yes seconded.fantastic example and does look good in that colour.thats not to say star silver ones dont because they do its just that its nice seeing them in a different colour.if that all makes sense.
You can tell from looking at your car lizzie that it has and will be maintained in as near "as new" condition as it can be and we know its because YOU want to. Thats the best and only reason there should be.
Sometimes its a personal challenge,sometimes its to be proud of something and sometimes its to show off a bit( as the bandit was commented on by frog" you do do it well !" ) rip burt.....
But its slways a great feeling to drive around in a car thats still alive because of your own efforts and abilities that others may have let go to scrap years ago due to neglect. After all they all start off immaculate !

Ps. I bet terry never knew what thread he was starting here !  !

Thanks :y.

Yes, it is certainly a challenge. I always wanted to keep my big Vauxhalls in the past, but with the exception of one Carlton, my company took them away to give me a brand new one :D

I managed to acquire a great Senator, but then traded it in for a 3.0 V6 Omega Elite. Since then I have progressed trying to find a later example good enough to keep into the future.  With the present one, obviously my last chance to do so, I am keeping it fully maintained after it had already been superbly looked after. This could be my last car with the advent of electric vehicles.  Unless it is a Teslar they will never give me the pleasure my current miggy does. But, by God, it is a real challenge indeed!! :o :o :D ;)
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: ajsphead on 16 September 2018, 19:43:12
Exactly - you need to enjoy repairing Omegas if they're going to last. I very much think of it as another hobby for me, and at least in my senior years it means I keep sort of active crawling around under the old girl getting covered in crap.

I've had an CD estate on the driveway going nowhere for the last couple of years and decided a couple of weeks ago to do something with it. Keeping it for spares was an original thought, but with the other estate CDX as a weekly drive and in tip top condition, I got the urge to go through it and make sure things weren't too far gone. New wishbones & steering rodsfitted last week. So far the front wheel arches & sills are all tidy now and protected inside and out, the front end behind the bumper is all sorted and protected....... I haven't even got to the rear arches and back end, so there's still a hell of a lot of work to do, not to mention cambelt, cam covers, handbrake cable, drilling out broken rusty screws, etc.


Sounds like hard work? It's enjoyable and feel as though I'm saving something in a throw-away society. Financially the car owes me nothing, and I'll easily get the budget down under £300 for a reliable winter runner.

Mine is a hobby too. As one of the group of us who have done up cars in the past which are now classics, the Omega falls into the same category now. I do run it as an everyday A to B form of transport, alongside other cars, but I couldn't run it without having another car. Every year it comes off the road for 2 or 3 weeks to have something fairly substantial done to it and as the design is 25 years old now, that puts the early ones firmly into classic territory. Mine is an 03 so it's got a long way to go. but I reckon it'll get there.

The parallels with Rover SD1s are interesting. In the 90s you could barely give them away as rotten old rust buckets and unreliable piles of ****. Now look at the values of tidy ones. The comparison is that if I were to buy another Omega it would not be on age and mileage it would be on condition. That's one benchmark I use to indicate the move into classic status.

Being older and having the benefit of a wider experience can colour our judgement compared to younger people who don't have that same perspective. Omegas are getting mentions in popular classic car magazines, one only last month suggesting people should go out and buy them as the numbers left have reduced by 48% in the last 2 years.

SD1s are cool now, Omegas can go the same way, after all they were better to start with.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: VXL V6 on 16 September 2018, 20:03:48
Exactly - you need to enjoy repairing Omegas if they're going to last. I very much think of it as another hobby for me, and at least in my senior years it means I keep sort of active crawling around under the old girl getting covered in crap.

I've had an CD estate on the driveway going nowhere for the last couple of years and decided a couple of weeks ago to do something with it. Keeping it for spares was an original thought, but with the other estate CDX as a weekly drive and in tip top condition, I got the urge to go through it and make sure things weren't too far gone. New wishbones & steering rodsfitted last week. So far the front wheel arches & sills are all tidy now and protected inside and out, the front end behind the bumper is all sorted and protected....... I haven't even got to the rear arches and back end, so there's still a hell of a lot of work to do, not to mention cambelt, cam covers, handbrake cable, drilling out broken rusty screws, etc.


Sounds like hard work? It's enjoyable and feel as though I'm saving something in a throw-away society. Financially the car owes me nothing, and I'll easily get the budget down under £300 for a reliable winter runner.

Mine is a hobby too. As one of the group of us who have done up cars in the past which are now classics, the Omega falls into the same category now. I do run it as an everyday A to B form of transport, alongside other cars, but I couldn't run it without having another car. Every year it comes off the road for 2 or 3 weeks to have something fairly substantial done to it and as the design is 25 years old now, that puts the early ones firmly into classic territory. Mine is an 03 so it's got a long way to go. but I reckon it'll get there.

The parallels with Rover SD1s are interesting. In the 90s you could barely give them away as rotten old rust buckets and unreliable piles of ****. Now look at the values of tidy ones. The comparison is that if I were to buy another Omega it would not be on age and mileage it would be on condition. That's one benchmark I use to indicate the move into classic status.

Being older and having the benefit of a wider experience can colour our judgement compared to younger people who don't have that same perspective. Omegas are getting mentions in popular classic car magazines, one only last month suggesting people should go out and buy them as the numbers left have reduced by 48% in the last 2 years.

SD1s are cool now, Omegas can go the same way, after all they were better to start with.

I'd still love a Vitesse, especially a twin plenum one, failing that, a Vanden Plas EFI model.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: dave the builder on 16 September 2018, 20:09:58
Was part of the BL production line to wash/dip the body in salt water  :-\
because they rotted worse than vauxhalls
then you'd need to keep stopping to see if it was just a piece of trim falling off ,or something more serious  ;D
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: aaronjb on 17 September 2018, 09:11:42
There are two cars (I use the term loosely in relation to the second, I'll admit) that I miss having sold them on - the Omega, for it's comfort, luxury and cavernous boot (in Estate trim) and the Ranger, for making me feel like a big kid every time I drove it.

But I don't think I could buy another Omega for all the reasons Al & Nick state; I don't have the desire for endless rust repairs on something "worth" (in terms of resale) so little.

He says, going to look at an E30 BMW this evening... :-X
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 17 September 2018, 13:00:55
A nice example of something, particularly over say 30 years old (and therefore relatively rare), is something that becomes a much more focused decision than that of trying to keep a high mileage barge going for sentimental reasons. A turd is still a turd no matter how much you polish it.

The Omega isn't the last great car that GM ever made. Even the current cars have their merits, and you can bet that someone somewhere thinks that a Viva Estate is the dog's danglies.

In ten or so years time, a genuine, clean low mileage Omega (and I don't mean "it's only done 10k a year" 280k 28 year old) with impeccable history may well be worth investing in.

Such cars are rare now, but if you want a genuinely classic Omega, they are the ones to invest in whilst they are still relatively cheap. All assuming that you have the space and are prepared to use it to keep a Z157 2.2 auto CD for ever.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: johnnydog on 18 September 2018, 10:02:04
I have owned several different 1960's and 70's Triumphs over the years since 1980. I have ended up with three prestiine unmolested examples; one I bought in 1988, another in 1998 and the last one in 2006. In the late 80's into the 90's they were for peanuts - they had got to rock bottom value wise and the not as good examples were being scrapped for parts. High fuel consumption and the cost of rust repairs was their demise. You had to be a real enthusiast for that particular model to own and run one. Good examples even then were getting harder to find, although they could be bought for relatively sensible money.
Move on 20 years, where they are all well over 40 years old, and the likelihood of finding that original, low mileage, 'never been welded' Triumph is virtually impossible, and their value has increased dramatically.
Move the case over to the Omega - it is exactly the same scenario but in a time period 30 years later.
There was relatively more of my models of the Triumph on the road in their day than the Omega of yesterday and today, so maybe the day when good examples of top spec Omegas increase in value may come sooner.
As always though, desirability, parts availability (original and remanufactured) and as we are seeing currently government 'interference', all play a big part in any cars future.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 18 September 2018, 10:21:34
But old Triumphs and the like are simple machines which are very suitable for the Sunday morning mechanic to tinker with. Omegas aren't, apart from a limited number of people on this forum.
Omegas were also made early in the motoring age we are in now. The age of cars being disposable consumer goods like washing machines. This is why I believe that only really good, expensive performance cars from the current age will be genuine future classics.
As mentioned above a low mileage, excellent condition Omega (or any other car) will have some kind of collectors value to some people in years to come, but imo they wont be sought after by large numbers of people, and wont ever command "silly money".
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: johnnydog on 18 September 2018, 13:55:54
But old Triumphs and the like are simple machines which are very suitable for the Sunday morning mechanic to tinker with.

One model I am referring to is the 2.5PI - the first mass produced saloon with fuel injection. Being mechanical (rather than controlled electronically as in modern cars) it was prone to horrendous fuel condition and poor running issues; all these were largely down to a lack of knowledge on its operation. Even I remember BL garages being unable to correctly set up the fuel injection system, as it had to be all done by hand, and even BL garages had no idea! This resulted in the fuel injection system being removed and reverting to carbs, or the cars being prematurely scrapped.
Today, these issues have largely been overcome, and there are specialists who have ironed out all the niggles, but the numbers now with the system is relatively low, and a good PI now is one of the most sought after models of the range, commanding good prices. You still have to be enthusiastic to own and run / maintain one dispite the specialists out there.
But isn't this the case with the Omega - you have to be enthusiastic to own and run one, and be prepared for higher maintenance costs to keep a good one on the road. The rarer / higher spec models that are deemed to be thirsty and possibly more difficult to maintain are the cars that most Omega enthusiasts want; these models will increase in value relatively if maintained well.
Owners fall into two basic categories, the one that wants a cheap run about maintained on a shoestring, and the one that cherishes his car, values it for what it is and maintains it regardless of cost.
This is exactly the same scenario I experienced 30 - 35 years ago when I was messing about / driving, and repairing / scrapping Triumphs.
Those who love their Omega will look after it and ensure that it lasts as long as possible, and those are disinterested in them will eventually move onto another make for cheap motoring when it costs too much in their eyes to continue running it.
Time will no doubt tell.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: cam.in.head on 18 September 2018, 15:04:35
Exactly .and as i said earlier no disrespect to either type of owner.
To be honest i tend to hang onto and maintain all the things i own that i wish to keep (because i like them/want to /prefer to another type etc)and will just do whatever they need as time goes on. This is why i still have my cars,my hifi,my old phone ,my crt tv's etc. ! !
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: BazaJT on 18 September 2018, 19:51:47
Always thought[still do]that the Triumph 2000/2500 made a great looking estate car :y
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: johnnydog on 18 September 2018, 22:21:54
Always thought[still do]that the Triumph 2000/2500 made a great looking estate car :y

Again personal preferences, but I prefer the saloon - never took to the estate. However if someone offered me a solid PI estate, then it would difficult (for me anyway) to say no. Especially if it was a Mk1 as there was only 371 (or very close to that figure) made due to its short production run before the Mk2 was introduced, and the ones known to be remaining can be counted on more or less both hands.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: terry paget on 29 September 2018, 21:56:11
Back to the rusty wheel arch. MOT preparation proceeds apace, cills are welded, undersealed, Kurusted and Supertrolled. The unsightly wheel arch on page one is still unsightly, it's not an MOT matter but I should like to clean it up a bit. Clearly painting over the rusty wing don't work, I wonder how I might seal over it somehow. Undercoat didn't work. Any suggestions? I wondered about araldite or some epoxy material.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Nick W on 29 September 2018, 22:08:48
Back to the rusty wheel arch. MOT preparation proceeds apace, cills are welded, undersealed, Kurusted and Supertrolled. The unsightly wheel arch on page one is still unsightly, it's not an MOT matter but I should like to clean it up a bit. Clearly painting over the rusty wing don't work, I wonder how I might seal over it somehow. Undercoat didn't work. Any suggestions? I wondered about araldite or some epoxy material.


If you're not going to grind back to solid metal and replace it with new then don't touch it.


At all.


It will look utterly shit whatever miracle snot you smear over the top.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 30 September 2018, 00:48:38
Back to the rusty wheel arch. MOT preparation proceeds apace, cills are welded, undersealed, Kurusted and Supertrolled. The unsightly wheel arch on page one is still unsightly, it's not an MOT matter but I should like to clean it up a bit. Clearly painting over the rusty wing don't work, I wonder how I might seal over it somehow. Undercoat didn't work. Any suggestions? I wondered about araldite or some epoxy material.


If you're not going to grind back to solid metal and replace it with new then don't touch it.


At all.


It will look utterly shit whatever miracle snot you smear over the top.

 ;D
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Omegatoy on 01 October 2018, 16:59:53
Back to the rusty wheel arch. MOT preparation proceeds apace, cills are welded, undersealed, Kurusted and Supertrolled. The unsightly wheel arch on page one is still unsightly, it's not an MOT matter but I should like to clean it up a bit. Clearly painting over the rusty wing don't work, I wonder how I might seal over it somehow. Undercoat didn't work. Any suggestions? I wondered about araldite or some epoxy material.


If you're not going to grind back to solid metal and replace it with new then don't touch it.


At all.


It will look utterly shit whatever miracle snot you smear over the top.

simply use some fine wet and dry, sand it gently back, most of the rust stains will then be unseen at a quick glance, the wax polish the area, repeat as and when needed,
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 01 October 2018, 17:17:28
Back to the rusty wheel arch. MOT preparation proceeds apace, cills are welded, undersealed, Kurusted and Supertrolled. The unsightly wheel arch on page one is still unsightly, it's not an MOT matter but I should like to clean it up a bit. Clearly painting over the rusty wing don't work, I wonder how I might seal over it somehow. Undercoat didn't work. Any suggestions? I wondered about araldite or some epoxy material.


If you're not going to grind back to solid metal and replace it with new then don't touch it.


At all.


It will look utterly shit whatever miracle snot you smear over the top.

I agree. :y :y  Even on my great example I have some troubling spots of rust around the rear arches, as I have had them before on other miggies.  I have tried to grind them back, treat with anti-rust metal solution, prime with anti rust paint, and put many coats of top coat paint on top.  But still rust patches come through >:(

I have now a quote for a professional rebuild and respray of the wheel arches area, and indeed, so it all matches like new, repainting of the rear end, including bumper;  £1,000, but done by the car body expert who rebuilt the front end after my shunt early last year.  Not cheap, but it will make the car like new.

Nothing apart from that approach will work long term; whatever is done by us amateurs with the rusty rear wheel arches can only last short term! :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Nick W on 01 October 2018, 17:52:48

I agree. :y :y  Even on my great example I have some troubling spots of rust around the rear arches, as I have had them before on other miggies.  I have tried to grind them back, treat with anti-rust metal solution, prime with anti rust paint, and put many coats of top coat paint on top. But still rust patches come through >:(



That is because rust in wheelarches, joints, flanges, bolt areas etc comes through from the inside. Playing about with the bit you can see is literally skimming the surface. The source of the rust is still there, and soon munches its way back to the surface.


Cutting back to clean metal is the only solution. Everything else is a waste of time. And rust is ALWAYS much worse than it appears.
Title: Re: Rusty wheel arch
Post by: Tick Tock on 02 October 2018, 22:48:38
I couldn't have put that better myself Nick  :y You have a P.M.

Take those soppy foam rubber gadget things out of the boot side flap storage areas so, that you can see the inside of the rear quarter panel and the inside back of the wheel arch seams. If there's been a lot of heavy breathing going on inside the car on dark cold wet evenings during the life of the car, surface rust will be in there somewhere, especially at the bottom of the rear lower areas behind where the bumper is fitted... this is also where the sunroof rear drains exit, and the rubber bung around the pipe is usually sat in a puddle of rust. Take it easy getting them out, as they can tear (bonded in), so small prising a bit at a time may save them intact.

The other cheaper solution, that could gain you another couple of years is to clean the outside back to a reasonable finish, but most importantly to give the inside some treatment too, and it will prolong the time it takes for the rust spots to start appearing again. I've used Dinnitrol sprayed on a bed of penetrating oil, and a second coat some time later, inside those side boot areas. One screw out at a time on the rear door catch will allow reasonble access to the inside front of the wheel arch. Regular cleaning and a smear of sillicone grease inside the wheel arch and the back door rubber seal will keep the timworm at bay for longer than you might think.