Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Andy B on 30 August 2019, 13:27:34

Title: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Andy B on 30 August 2019, 13:27:34
Yesterday I watched Sally (her Reg plate was a variation of) driving into the sea axle deep in her new-ish Range Rover to retrieve jet skis on a trailer. I hope she swilled her car off afterwards ..... I doubt she did though.
I can't see that sea water does a car much good long term  ..... though that'll likely be a problem for the next owner.  ::)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Entwood on 30 August 2019, 13:40:03
Friend of ours bought a private sale Kia Sorento second hand ... at a very reduced price .. good MOT history and all those sort of checks done .. it had full towing facilities already fitted so seemed, to him, to be a perfect option ....

Roll on 2 years and it fails its MOT for very major corrosion all around the rear axle/suspension/subframe (?) ... a bit of research discovered it had been used by its previous owner as a boat launch/recovery vehicle at his sailing school for 3 years. He then sold it to "himself" but at his private address and used it for another year (no doubt still at the school) before getting rid.

So just six years and it cost well over £2000 to have the required welding done.

Salt water and metal do not mix !!!
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Nick W on 30 August 2019, 13:43:47

Salt water and metal do not mix !!!


No they don't. But using a 4x4 to tow trailers on slippery surfaces like beaches and launch ramps is one of the better reasons to own one!
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 30 August 2019, 15:18:59
I remember, do you, the days when you could tell a "seaside" car?

It had rust holes everywhere, with all the edges of doors lined with rust.  They stuck out a mile!! :o :o ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Andy B on 30 August 2019, 15:54:01
I remember, do you, the days when you could tell a "seaside" car?

It had rust holes everywhere, with all the edges of doors lined with rust.  They stuck out a mile!! :o :o ;D ;D ;)

ALL cars were full of rust holes back then  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 30 August 2019, 16:27:51
I remember, do you, the days when you could tell a "seaside" car?

It had rust holes everywhere, with all the edges of doors lined with rust.  They stuck out a mile!! :o :o ;D ;D ;)

ALL cars were full of rust holes back then  ;D

Newspaper and Isopon could regularly be found in the front wings of 4 year old Austin 1100/1300/1300GT.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 30 August 2019, 16:35:28
I remember, do you, the days when you could tell a "seaside" car?

It had rust holes everywhere, with all the edges of doors lined with rust.  They stuck out a mile!! :o :o ;D ;D ;)

ALL cars were full of rust holes back then ;D

Newspaper and Isopon could regularly be found in the front wings of 4 year old Austin 1100/1300/1300GT.


The "Seaside" cars were far worse though :D :D ;)

Ah, add an A40 to that list; but mine just had newspaper behind the sills!! ::) ::) :o :D ;)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 30 August 2019, 16:42:28
I remember, do you, the days when you could tell a "seaside" car?

It had rust holes everywhere, with all the edges of doors lined with rust.  They stuck out a mile!! :o :o ;D ;D ;)

ALL cars were full of rust holes back then ;D

Newspaper and Isopon could regularly be found in the front wings of 4 year old Austin 1100/1300/1300GT.


The "Seaside" cars were far worse though :D :D ;)

Ah, add an A40 to that list; but mine just had newspaper behind the sills!! ::) ::) :o :D ;)


Possibly the reason why companies such as Ziebart and Endrust were so popular a few years later. ;D :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 August 2019, 23:40:42

Salt water and metal do not mix !!!


No they don't. But using a 4x4 to tow trailers on slippery surfaces like beaches and launch ramps is one of the better reasons to own one!

If only most of them weren't designed for nothing more arduous than posing on the school run. ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Bigron on 31 August 2019, 00:06:54
The cars, or the mothers? :)

Ron.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Andy B on 31 August 2019, 00:11:10
The cars, or the mothers? :)

Ron.

  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Kevin Wood on 31 August 2019, 17:35:09
The cars, or the mothers? :)

Ron.

Both, although, on the latter, some of them do rate scarily towards the "heavy duty" end of the scale IMHO. :-X
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 September 2019, 21:45:04

Salt water and metal do not mix !!!


No they don't. But using a 4x4 to tow trailers on slippery surfaces like beaches and launch ramps is one of the better reasons to own one!

If only most of them weren't designed for nothing more arduous than posing on the school run. ;D

Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: STEMO on 01 September 2019, 22:04:09

Salt water and metal do not mix !!!


No they don't. But using a 4x4 to tow trailers on slippery surfaces like beaches and launch ramps is one of the better reasons to own one!

If only most of them weren't designed for nothing more arduous than posing on the school run. ;D

Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential
The tossers who buy them are paying a lot of money for that capability but, as you say, never use it.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 01 September 2019, 22:08:27
Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential

Given that LR products took 4 of the top 5 least reliable large/luxury SUV slots in last year's What Car survey, perhaps a slightly different design focus might be more appropriate....
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 01 September 2019, 22:12:08
Ouch...
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 01 September 2019, 22:15:31
Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential

Given that LR products took 4 of the top 5 least reliable large/luxury SUV slots in last year's What Car survey, perhaps a slightly different design focus might be more appropriate....
What was the fifth?
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Andy B on 01 September 2019, 22:17:20

Salt water and metal do not mix !!!


No they don't. But using a 4x4 to tow trailers on slippery surfaces like beaches and launch ramps is one of the better reasons to own one!

If only most of them weren't designed for nothing more arduous than posing on the school run. ;D

Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential
But off road courses are generally inland far away from salt water. My ML is apparently capable of driving through a couple of feet of water (off road pack & Airmatic) but I wouldn't let if paddle in the sea.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 01 September 2019, 22:18:25
Ouch...

As the Australians say, you want to go into the outback, you take a land rover. Want to come back again, you take a land cruiser.

What was the fifth?

Ford Edge.

I guess it snuck in under the "Large" part of the criteria.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Kevin Wood on 01 September 2019, 22:40:42

Salt water and metal do not mix !!!


No they don't. But using a 4x4 to tow trailers on slippery surfaces like beaches and launch ramps is one of the better reasons to own one!

If only most of them weren't designed for nothing more arduous than posing on the school run. ;D

Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential
But off road courses are generally inland far away from salt water. My ML is apparently capable of driving through a couple of feet of water (off road pack & Airmatic) but I wouldn't let if paddle in the sea.

I remember the day years ago when we tried driving the old company G-Wagen on the beach. It was so heavy it just sank to its axles if you weren't careful. Or maybe it was the weight of all the tractor juice it needed to actually move? ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 01 September 2019, 23:11:07
Ouch...

As the Australians say, you want to go into the outback, you take a land rover. Want to come back again, you take a land cruiser.

What was the fifth?

Ford Edge.

I guess it snuck in under the "Large" part of the criteria.
That's a relief, not even on the radar :y
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 01 September 2019, 23:21:23
No Mercs in the shame list, e-class was the most reliable luxury saloon in 2018.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 September 2019, 07:35:11
Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential

Given that LR products took 4 of the top 5 least reliable large/luxury SUV slots in last year's What Car survey, perhaps a slightly different design focus might be more appropriate....

It already is, fault lights are not being lit for minor issues the same as the other big manufacturers have done for some time.  :y

Reliability is mainly a customer perception rather than real faults (but then as manufacturers use pretty much all common parts then that is no surprise) which is no surprise.

JLRs biggest issue has been the infotainment system software, as of about last August this took a big leap forward and is being campaigned so big steps will be seen upwards (in fact big improvements are already being seen).

The worst reliability car at the moment is the new X5......

Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 02 September 2019, 19:24:27
Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential

Given that LR products took 4 of the top 5 least reliable large/luxury SUV slots in last year's What Car survey, perhaps a slightly different design focus might be more appropriate....

It already is, fault lights are not being lit for minor issues the same as the other big manufacturers have done for some time.  :y

Reliability is mainly a customer perception rather than real faults (but then as manufacturers use pretty much all common parts then that is no surprise) which is no surprise.

JLRs biggest issue has been the infotainment system software, as of about last August this took a big leap forward and is being campaigned so big steps will be seen upwards (in fact big improvements are already being seen).

The worst reliability car at the moment is the new X5......
It'll take years to lose that stigma though. I suspect a lot of that "perception" is from the BMW/Ford era...
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 02 September 2019, 19:25:34
No Mercs in the shame list, e-class was the most reliable luxury saloon in 2018.
Excellent.  I'll see if I can get a link for bro ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 September 2019, 19:31:34
Ours are designed for way way more, seeing the new Evoque on the off road course was quite eye opening, sadly they rarely get used to the full potential

Given that LR products took 4 of the top 5 least reliable large/luxury SUV slots in last year's What Car survey, perhaps a slightly different design focus might be more appropriate....

It already is, fault lights are not being lit for minor issues the same as the other big manufacturers have done for some time.  :y

Reliability is mainly a customer perception rather than real faults (but then as manufacturers use pretty much all common parts then that is no surprise) which is no surprise.

JLRs biggest issue has been the infotainment system software, as of about last August this took a big leap forward and is being campaigned so big steps will be seen upwards (in fact big improvements are already being seen).

The worst reliability car at the moment is the new X5......
It'll take years to lose that stigma though. I suspect a lot of that "perception" is from the BMW/Ford era...
Possibly.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: aaronjb on 02 September 2019, 19:43:30
It'll take years to lose that stigma though. I suspect a lot of that "perception" is from the BMW/Ford era...

Did I mention that the alternator just packed up on my L320 RRS.. ;D :-X :-\
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 02 September 2019, 21:15:09
I'd agree there is probably quite a lot in the perception point. But then again why wouldn't there be?

If I dropped £15k on Dacia duster, £35k on a Kia sorento or £75-100k on a FF RR, my expectations of those three cars would be vastly different in every respect, and I would (quite rightly in my view) be ready to lose my sh!t if my FF RR emitted so much as a squeek or rattle.

And therin lies my problem with JLR products, even the bang up to date ones (I'm thinking of the i-pace specifically) have pieces of cr@p design and flaws which are just unnaceptable at their price point.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Kevin Wood on 02 September 2019, 22:24:02
No Mercs in the shame list, e-class was the most reliable luxury saloon in 2018.
Excellent.  I'll see if I can get a link for bro ;D

Do they still rust away before they break down, then? ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 September 2019, 07:36:19
I'd agree there is probably quite a lot in the perception point. But then again why wouldn't there be?

If I dropped £15k on Dacia duster, £35k on a Kia sorento or £75-100k on a FF RR, my expectations of those three cars would be vastly different in every respect, and I would (quite rightly in my view) be ready to lose my sh!t if my FF RR emitted so much as a squeek or rattle.

And therin lies my problem with JLR products, even the bang up to date ones (I'm thinking of the i-pace specifically) have pieces of cr@p design and flaws which are just unnaceptable at their price point.

I have been hacking about in a 405 a bit recently and despite the fact its an abused work lump, I had a bit of a eureka moment.

Basically, I never got why people bought one, but having stuck about 1k miles on a full fat, it suddenly occurs to you that the almost silent cabin, super smooth ride, massive power and supreme comfort delivers a 'happy' place to be and is totally effortless.

No issues, squeaks or anything at all with this one and its been badly treated and has plenty of war wounds.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 September 2019, 08:08:55
Presumably it gets properly serviced though, which is something that cannot always be said once Jo Public get their mits on one...
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: aaronjb on 03 September 2019, 08:15:33
If I dropped £15k on Dacia duster, £35k on a Kia sorento or £75-100k on a FF RR, ...

I should find the video of the Dacia and the RRS in Romania .. the RRS is stuck at the bottom of a snow covered unmade road and the Dacia drives around him and straight up the hill like it's not there ;D (Likely a demonstration of tyres and lack of driver skill rather than the car, of course..)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 03 September 2019, 17:35:24
I'd agree there is probably quite a lot in the perception point. But then again why wouldn't there be?

If I dropped £15k on Dacia duster, £35k on a Kia sorento or £75-100k on a FF RR, my expectations of those three cars would be vastly different in every respect, and I would (quite rightly in my view) be ready to lose my sh!t if my FF RR emitted so much as a squeek or rattle.

And therin lies my problem with JLR products, even the bang up to date ones (I'm thinking of the i-pace specifically) have pieces of cr@p design and flaws which are just unnaceptable at their price point.

I have been hacking about in a 405 a bit recently and despite the fact its an abused work lump, I had a bit of a eureka moment.

Basically, I never got why people bought one, but having stuck about 1k miles on a full fat, it suddenly occurs to you that the almost silent cabin, super smooth ride, massive power and supreme comfort delivers a 'happy' place to be and is totally effortless.

No issues, squeaks or anything at all with this one and its been badly treated and has plenty of war wounds.
Just too conking big for my driveway, so excluded as a possibly future run around :(
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 03 September 2019, 17:40:06
If I dropped £15k on Dacia duster, £35k on a Kia sorento or £75-100k on a FF RR, ...

I should find the video of the Dacia and the RRS in Romania .. the RRS is stuck at the bottom of a snow covered unmade road and the Dacia drives around him and straight up the hill like it's not there ;D (Likely a demonstration of tyres and lack of driver skill rather than the car, of course..)
Driver skill.  Remember about 15yrs ago at Silverstone one wet F1, and the media caught on film a couple of Range Rovers being stuck on what is essentially a flat field, and going nowhere despite 350bhp being applied to all wheels?

What is less well known is that Landrover contacted all owners that they could ascertain were there, and sent them on a freebie off road course, to learn how to drive ;D

If anyone thinks there is a more capable road going luxury SUV, they misunderstand the capabilities of a FF RR.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: STEMO on 03 September 2019, 19:38:50
The SV Autobiography Dynamic looks a snip at £144,000  ::)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: STEMO on 03 September 2019, 19:41:22
Sorry.......from £144,000.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: STEMO on 03 September 2019, 19:50:26
Just specced mine up the way I'd like it......£192,000  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: STEMO on 03 September 2019, 19:51:25
All I've got to do now is sell my house and get a bank loan.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: dave the builder on 03 September 2019, 19:56:10
All I've got to do now is sell my house and get a bank loan.
and a ramp to get the mut up into it  ;)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: STEMO on 03 September 2019, 20:02:49
All I've got to do now is sell my house and get a bank loan.
and a ramp to get the mut up into it  ;)
I specced an electric mutt putter inner.  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: dave the builder on 03 September 2019, 20:08:05
All I've got to do now is sell my house and get a bank loan.
and a ramp to get the mut up into it  ;)
I specced an electric mutt putter inner.  ;D
SNOB  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 September 2019, 20:38:58
All I've got to do now is sell my house and get a bank loan.
and a ramp to get the mut up into it  ;)
I specced an electric mutt putter inner.  ;D
Do they do a Mother putter inner?
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 03 September 2019, 20:40:58
All I've got to do now is sell my house and get a bank loan.
and a ramp to get the mut up into it  ;)
I specced an electric mutt putter inner.  ;D

Is that a robot with a size 12 boot?  ???  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 03 September 2019, 21:37:08
If anyone thinks there is a more capable road going luxury SUV, they misunderstand the capabilities of a FF RR.

No direct ownership experience of a 405, or 322. But our family certainly but two P38s through their paces in the 12years or so they owned them. Towed up to, and in excess of the 3.5t limit and tested the off road ability as much as anyone who doesn't do it for sport.

My criticisms of that car would be two-fold. Firstly no suitable engine - the 2.5d and 4.0 we had were both arthritic (4.0 was better but still not adequate), going to the 4.6 only traded a few bhp for an engine made of chocolate.  ::)

The second was reliability, not the drivetrain as such, this had faults, but was worked hard. The issue was electronics, air suspension and general poor design (failed door lock meant that the LR advice was to cut the door off).

I have first hand experience of L322s - fixing countless faults that shouldn't have been there in the first place. The 405 is getting no better reports than the 322 did, so I've no reason to believe it's any better. That said, I would love one, as cars go, they are about as "me" as cars get, but I just don't think I could live with one.

My point? Focussing on off-road ability and other attributes that are used by 0.1- 0.01%.of buyers rather than designing and screwinf together cars properly seems rather counter intuitive.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 September 2019, 23:08:10
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/14299/range-rover-vs-gl450

A slightly conflicting article/test which suggests that the last L322 is better all round than the Merc GL...

This is in spite on the only two things that the RR does better being slightly more economical and subjectively being a nicer place to be... Turn to the facts and figures, the GL wins hands down in spite of the depreciation being given as straight numbers rather than as a percentage ::)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: STEMO on 04 September 2019, 06:35:22
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/14299/range-rover-vs-gl450

A slightly conflicting article/test which suggests that the last L322 is better all round than the Merc GL...

This is in spite on the only two things that the RR does better being slightly more economical and subjectively being a nicer place to be... Turn to the facts and figures, the GL wins hands down in spite of the depreciation being given as straight numbers rather than as a percentage ::)
Both percentage and numbers are there.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: aaronjb on 04 September 2019, 08:47:23
If anyone thinks there is a more capable road going luxury SUV, they misunderstand the capabilities of a FF RR.

That said, I would love one, as cars go, they are about as "me" as cars get, but I just don't think I could live with one.

I know where there's a lovely black L320 - much more practical than an L322 as it's about three feet* shorter so you can actually park it places... well looked after, no mechanical issues.

Not mine, obviously ;D ;D

Must admit, the 3.6 TDV8 is a lovely engine - a wall of grunt - but I'd probably still have preferred the supercharged petrol V8 of the same vintage if it didn't command a £5-7k price premium! I could see an L322 in my future, too.. then again, I can see so many cars in my future I'll need a lottery jackpot and an aircraft hangar to store them all in ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 04 September 2019, 09:50:32
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/14299/range-rover-vs-gl450

A slightly conflicting article/test which suggests that the last L322 is better all round than the Merc GL...

This is in spite on the only two things that the RR does better being slightly more economical and subjectively being a nicer place to be... Turn to the facts and figures, the GL wins hands down in spite of the depreciation being given as straight numbers rather than as a percentage ::)
Both percentage and numbers are there.

As far as I can tell, RR gets the same treatment by the auto press as any new golf. "Its the new golf, 5 stars" in some cases, before the car has even turned a wheel  ::)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: aaronjb on 04 September 2019, 09:58:02
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/14299/range-rover-vs-gl450

A slightly conflicting article/test which suggests that the last L322 is better all round than the Merc GL..

You just reminded me what I saw driving home from work on the M40 yesterday .. a very old, battered, Merc ML (first generation) with two LPG fillers in the bumper (one appeared to have been ripped out), wing mirrors held on with duct tape.. towing a car trailer topped with a LWB Transit.. at speed :o ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: henryd on 04 September 2019, 10:19:46
It'll take years to lose that stigma though. I suspect a lot of that "perception" is from the BMW/Ford era...

Did I mention that the alternator just packed up on my L320 RRS.. ;D :-X :-\

I believe access to said part is a little tight :-X
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 04 September 2019, 11:17:39
I believe access to said part is a little tight :-X

Tight as in inconvenient, or tight as in find me a left handed proctologist?  :D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: aaronjb on 04 September 2019, 12:31:18
It's not that bad compared to, say, the water pump on the Mini ;D You have to go in via the wheel arch, remove air hoses, water hoses, avoid slicing yourself open on some sharp bits and then jiggle it out through a gap only just larger than the alternator. I might give in and pay the local specialist the 2.5hrs labour.

Actually, that process sounds remarkably like doing the water pump on the Mini, too ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 September 2019, 13:22:05
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/14299/range-rover-vs-gl450

A slightly conflicting article/test which suggests that the last L322 is better all round than the Merc GL...

This is in spite on the only two things that the RR does better being slightly more economical and subjectively being a nicer place to be... Turn to the facts and figures, the GL wins hands down in spite of the depreciation being given as straight numbers rather than as a percentage ::)
Both percentage and numbers are there.
You're right, I was thinking it should reflect the lost value as a percentage of the original price :-\
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Andy B on 04 September 2019, 13:44:49
you want to try changing all 6 plugs on a Smart Roadster .....  ::) ::) or a water pump. But both are a piece of cake compared to swapping a starter motor ..... what a **t of a job, it took me about 5hrs to remove the old one & the same to fit the new one
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 September 2019, 14:10:44
Not a job I fancy doing on the Trolley either :-\
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: relluf on 04 September 2019, 15:58:09
I believe access to said part is a little tight :-X

Tight as in inconvenient, or tight as in find me a left handed proctologist?  :D


Well you might try it on the omega 2.5td now that is interesting 😊
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2019, 17:10:45
I believe access to said part is a little tight :-X

Tight as in inconvenient, or tight as in find me a left handed proctologist?  :D


Well you might try it on the omega 2.5td now that is interesting 😊
Alternator on an Omega TD?  30-45 mins if you slightly bend battery tray, including a break for tea and biccies :).  The TD is remarkably easy to work on once you accept that he intake has to come off every time :)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2019, 17:14:28
If anyone thinks there is a more capable road going luxury SUV, they misunderstand the capabilities of a FF RR.

No direct ownership experience of a 405, or 322. But our family certainly but two P38s through their paces in the 12years or so they owned them. Towed up to, and in excess of the 3.5t limit and tested the off road ability as much as anyone who doesn't do it for sport.

My criticisms of that car would be two-fold. Firstly no suitable engine - the 2.5d and 4.0 we had were both arthritic (4.0 was better but still not adequate), going to the 4.6 only traded a few bhp for an engine made of chocolate.  ::)

The second was reliability, not the drivetrain as such, this had faults, but was worked hard. The issue was electronics, air suspension and general poor design (failed door lock meant that the LR advice was to cut the door off).

I have first hand experience of L322s - fixing countless faults that shouldn't have been there in the first place. The 405 is getting no better reports than the 322 did, so I've no reason to believe it's any better. That said, I would love one, as cars go, they are about as "me" as cars get, but I just don't think I could live with one.

My point? Focussing on off-road ability and other attributes that are used by 0.1- 0.01%.of buyers rather than designing and screwinf together cars properly seems rather counter intuitive.
P38 and the early L322 (pre 2005 FL) are BMW era, running BMW electrics and systems, mostly from the 7 series of the time, and aren't great reliability wise. Later L322 are a huge improvement in that area, and the 2nd FL around 2009 improves it still further.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2019, 17:20:21
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/14299/range-rover-vs-gl450

A slightly conflicting article/test which suggests that the last L322 is better all round than the Merc GL...

This is in spite on the only two things that the RR does better being slightly more economical and subjectively being a nicer place to be... Turn to the facts and figures, the GL wins hands down in spite of the depreciation being given as straight numbers rather than as a percentage ::)
It would be a brave (or corrupt) journo that puts any Mercedes badged car above its rivals in the last 25 yrs. Very brave/corrupt.

And, yes, I have hoofed around in a V8 GL, and it might match a RR on straight line speed, but is a step below in every other regard...   ...not that a FF RR exactly "handles" IMHO.  The lack of design attention to detail can also be forgiven on the cheaper stuff, but not at this level, and is evident.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 05 September 2019, 19:24:42

P38 and the early L322 (pre 2005 FL) are BMW era, running BMW electrics and systems, mostly from the 7 series of the time, and aren't great reliability wise. Later L322 are a huge improvement in that area, and the 2nd FL around 2009 improves it still further.

True, hence the wheezy arthritic 2.5 diseasal lump. Although LR were also kind enough to liberally sprinkle bits of Lucas electronics about the place. Because, y'know, that's always a sure fire route to reliability
 ;D

The thing is, I say all of this in the full.knowledge I am going to buy one. Some day. Because it's an itch I'll have to scratch.  ::)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 September 2019, 22:33:40

P38 and the early L322 (pre 2005 FL) are BMW era, running BMW electrics and systems, mostly from the 7 series of the time, and aren't great reliability wise. Later L322 are a huge improvement in that area, and the 2nd FL around 2009 improves it still further.

True, hence the wheezy arthritic 2.5 diseasal lump. Although LR were also kind enough to liberally sprinkle bits of Lucas electronics about the place. Because, y'know, that's always a sure fire route to reliability
 ;D

The thing is, I say all of this in the full.knowledge I am going to buy one. Some day. Because it's an itch I'll have to scratch.  ::)

Heavy. You missed out heavy. Ask me how I know. :-X
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 06 September 2019, 10:17:28
Heavy. You missed out heavy. Ask me how I know. :-X

Is it the same 2.5 boat anchor you can get in the omega (if you're daft enough)?
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Nick W on 06 September 2019, 10:24:55
Heavy. You missed out heavy. Ask me how I know. :-X

Is it the same 2.5 boat anchor you can get in the omega (if you're daft enough)?


It's underwhelming in a car.


It's comically crap in a Range Rover.


All of BMWs I6s are huge, and heavy.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 06 September 2019, 10:58:32
The bit that amazed me was that it wasn't any more economical than the 4.0 (I think the 4.6 was rather thirstier), the post 2000 4.0 delivered about 22 in mixed use, the diseasel managed about 24.

Not that the 4.0 was a live wire by any stretch  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: aaronjb on 06 September 2019, 11:08:30
I get mid-30s on a run out of the 3.6 TDV8 in my L320 IIRC .. been a while since I did a run, to remember properly. My engine of choice would have been the Supercharged petrol 5.0 V8 .. if they didn't command a 5-8k premium in price.

This one is gorgeous .. right up until you see the interior: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201905228216169 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Nick W on 06 September 2019, 11:13:31
I get mid-30s on a run out of the 3.6 TDV8 in my L320 IIRC .. been a while since I did a run, to remember properly. My engine of choice would have been the Supercharged petrol 5.0 V8 .. if they didn't command a 5-8k premium in price.

This one is gorgeous .. right up until you see the interior: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201905228216169 (https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201905228216169) ;D ;D


Pictorial proof that Range Rovers can compete with German equivalents ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 06 September 2019, 11:48:56
This one is gorgeous .. right up until you see the interior

It a bit like getting in a Mayfair gentleman's club!  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Viral_Jim on 06 September 2019, 12:16:35

This one is gorgeous .. right up until you see the interior

Upholstered in the finest Dale Wonton  :D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: STEMO on 06 September 2019, 12:23:54
Well, I don't mind it.....so there.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 06 September 2019, 12:30:44
This one is gorgeous .. right up until you see the interior

It a bit like getting in a Mayfair gentleman's club!  ;D

You might get in and find someone like Ken Clarke sat in the back puffing a cigar and sipping a glass of port!  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: ronnyd on 06 September 2019, 16:21:31
Chavtastic.  ;D
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 06 September 2019, 16:42:40

P38 and the early L322 (pre 2005 FL) are BMW era, running BMW electrics and systems, mostly from the 7 series of the time, and aren't great reliability wise. Later L322 are a huge improvement in that area, and the 2nd FL around 2009 improves it still further.

True, hence the wheezy arthritic 2.5 diseasal lump. Although LR were also kind enough to liberally sprinkle bits of Lucas electronics about the place. Because, y'know, that's always a sure fire route to reliability
 ;D

The thing is, I say all of this in the full.knowledge I am going to buy one. Some day. Because it's an itch I'll have to scratch.  ::)
That's where I am ;D.  But it'll be at least a later L322.

That said, I did once have a blat around in one of our resident used car sellers' 3l BMW tractor powered ones, which was utterly, completely gutless.  And I really enjoyed it, possibly more so that the real ones, simply because it removed the stress of even trying to educate other road users!
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: TheBoy on 06 September 2019, 16:44:23

P38 and the early L322 (pre 2005 FL) are BMW era, running BMW electrics and systems, mostly from the 7 series of the time, and aren't great reliability wise. Later L322 are a huge improvement in that area, and the 2nd FL around 2009 improves it still further.

True, hence the wheezy arthritic 2.5 diseasal lump. Although LR were also kind enough to liberally sprinkle bits of Lucas electronics about the place. Because, y'know, that's always a sure fire route to reliability
 ;D

The thing is, I say all of this in the full.knowledge I am going to buy one. Some day. Because it's an itch I'll have to scratch.  ::)

Heavy. You missed out heavy. Ask me how I know. :-X
Kevin, how do you know they are heavy?

;D

And wet and cold. Don't forget they ooze wet and cold everywhere.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Kevin Wood on 06 September 2019, 22:37:44
I get mid-30s on a run out of the 3.6 TDV8 in my L320 IIRC .. been a while since I did a run, to remember properly. My engine of choice would have been the Supercharged petrol 5.0 V8 .. if they didn't command a 5-8k premium in price.

This one is gorgeous .. right up until you see the interior: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201905228216169 ;D ;D

My eyes! God, that's hideous! Fresh from a golf club car park somewhere in Cheshire. :-X
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 07 September 2019, 03:11:01
And I thought baby poo brown was iffy :o
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 07 September 2019, 06:48:20
I cant begin to understand why anyone would ever want to own or drive a Range Rover, but were all different I suppose.  :-\
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 September 2019, 10:12:59
I cant begin to understand why anyone would ever want to own or drive a Range Rover, but were all different I suppose.  :-\

Me too, and I have an occasional requirement to tow mates in gliders out of fields, so would actually use the off-road capability.

I'd rather get stuck in fields from time to time than live with the horrific handling and daft fuel consumption day-to-day.
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 September 2019, 13:46:43
I'm like Jimmy, as I have a FFRR itch that I will have to scratch at some point.  ::)

If I do get one it would probably end up a short lived affair where like the Discovery I had, I'd get scared of possible expensive repair bills....  ::)  :-\
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: ronnyd on 07 September 2019, 13:54:03
Blimey, that interior is hideous.  :o
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: aaronjb on 07 September 2019, 17:25:36
If I do get one it would probably end up a short lived affair where like the Discovery I had, I'd get scared of possible expensive repair bills....  ::)  :-\

Oh yes .. every time I drive the RRS I have "the fear" - the fear that something expensive will fall off ;D

Blimey, that interior is hideous.  :o

I thought the normally selected "footballer white" or "60-a-day smoker's beige" was bad enough, but that's taken it to a whole new level.. finding one with a nice black leather interior is actually annoyingly hard :(
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 07 September 2019, 17:28:55
If I were ever inclined to spend the cost of a small house on a 4x4 tarts handbag, I would have a Merc G wagon over the RR every time.  :)
Title: Re: Driving in sea/salt water
Post by: BazaJT on 07 September 2019, 18:21:13
Yes but as you're now half French do your views count? :D :P ;D ;D