Topic: Bit Of Legal Advise Please (Read 7938 times)

amba · « **on:** 06 March 2015, 08:21:45 »

Yesterday my wife received an offical looking set of paperwork advising her she was being taken to court for non payment of an alleged parking contravention at our local supermarket.

It was accompanied by a form N1 laying out the reasons for the claim that she had overstayed the agreed 2 hour time slot and her details had been recorded on automatic time elapse number plate camera.It went onto to advise that this was classified as trespass and as overstaying the agreed time etc would be a breach of contract etc etc.It was issued by a crowd called Debt Enforcement and Action Ltd and was for £215 being the charge as not paid within there 14 days + legal costs and court fees.The court papers advise that these must be returned within 14 days as failing that the court may pass judgement against her without any defence.

The letter was deliverd by standard postage and not recorded and to the best of our knowledge we can never remember ever receiving any previous paperwork relating to this so needless to say she is somewhat concerend and is now just considering paying the £215 and calling an end to it.

After reading it very very carfeully I seem to of found a glaring mistake and am wondering if this should now be our defence and should try taking them to the cleaners and employing the services of a solicitor and counterclaiming the costs involved for their legal advise.
Reading through there report of the allegeded offence the date they have entered on the claim form is....01/01/1900... and states the vehicle was seen entering the carpark at 13.58 and leaving at 17.00.

This is obviously a mistake as being New Years Day some 115 years ago the carpark wasnt even there/Henry Ford hadnt even dreamt of building a Ford Fiesta nor had automatic cameras been invented so their error has probably got her off anyway but would the best course of action be as she is concerned that if we use this as our defence they might try and claim again with another date.

Any legal eagles advise warmly welcomed please

minifreek · « **Reply #1 on:** 06 March 2015, 09:20:21 »

Tell 'em to go opps themselves LOL

Its a private company and doesn't hold any legality for them to charge you anything for parking...

It's basically an invoice and you have no legal obligation to pay it.....

If, however it is a local authority that has sent it, then it has to be paid...

The car park is presumably a private car park and not controlled by a local authority...?

There is something of this very nature going through the courts and through Parliament to stop this illegal activity and intimidation of these unregulated companies as at the moment there is nothing to stop ANY company from opening a car park and charging you whatever they wish for you to park there...

If it hasn't been sent by registered post, then deny receiving it....

I would ask them for photos of the car parked in the parking spot, thy would have to be original photos and not 'enhanced' by a screenshot that has been clearly zoomed in digitally...

Tell them to do one....

Basically - just ignore it....

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #2 on:** 06 March 2015, 09:32:16 »

Unless it's actually a summons from a court, I would ignore it.

I'm guessing they'll check their paperwork a bit more thoroughly before actually starting expensive proceedings, and realise they haven't got a leg to stand on.

If not, turn up in court with the letter, and explain that you weren't the registered keeper of the vehicle on the date of the "offence"

, so you ignored it.

I wouldn't get into correspondence with them, as that will just encourage them to pester you more.

4x4 · « **Reply #3 on:** 06 March 2015, 09:37:00 »

Have a read here
http://justclaim.co.uk/court-forms/N1-claim-form.html

amba · « **Reply #4 on:** 06 March 2015, 09:46:41 »

Thanks for the advise guys.

As I am sure you appreciate the claim is in SWTSMBO name and anything remotely leagl she goes into meltdown and first reaction is just to pay up.

My stance is as suggested and tell them to get stuffed but my main concern was that...If you do not reply, judgment may be entered against you.

However if it does go against her how ever remote that chance is,surely the date of 01/01/1900 as being the date of the offence would be picked up at court,so my thought is just to let it ride and see if the court pick that up

I suppose if she replies to it they know she is concerned enough to defend and may then realise their date error and try changing it .

LC0112G · « **Reply #5 on:** 06 March 2015, 09:56:58 »

Ignoring is a very dangerous strategy. The advice to "ignore" private parking tickets is now wrong, and has been for 3 years (Protection of freedoms Act 2012). Plus, if these are genuine court papers, and you don't defend, then the court WILL find in favour of the claimant by default.

I suggest you get over to either the MoneySavingExpert or Pepipoo message boards and ask for help there.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=f356a930407e495dd3f7b54584d82951&showforum=60

Cheers
Malcolm

LC0112G · « **Reply #6 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:02:41 »

Quote from: amba on 06 March 2015, 09:46:41

Thanks for the advise guys.

As I am sure you appreciate the claim is in SWTSMBO name and anything remotely leagl she goes into meltdown and first reaction is just to pay up.

My stance is as suggested and tell them to get stuffed but my main concern was that...If you do not reply, judgment may be entered against you.

However if it does go against her how ever remote that chance is,surely the date of 01/01/1900 as being the date of the offence would be picked up at court,so my thought is just to let it ride and see if the court pick that up

I suppose if she replies to it they know she is concerned enough to defend and may then realise their date error and try changing it .

The way it works is that they will claim that by parking in the car park she agreed to the terms and conditions that they impose. This agreement forms a legal contract between the driver and the company, and she has not followed the terms of the contract by not paying the agreed fees. So if you pipe up at court saying the dates are wrong, then they will lose. However, they'll just re-issue new papers with the correct dates and come after you again. They have up to 6 years to sue you.

In the small claims court, you cannot claim 'costs' if you win.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #7 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:03:27 »

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4878261

Says it all

amba · « **Reply #8 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:20:23 »

Lots of conflicting advise $:-\$

I am worried that if no papers are returned judgement will be taken against her by default as adised by LC0112G and she will get hit with a fine.

If we just fill out the forms and return stating we dispute the claim and let it go to court I assume somedody will then pick up the glaring mistake with the dates .The company will then go back through any past records and just issue another with another date on so this could go around and around almost for ever .

Gaffers · « **Reply #9 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:27:17 »

As mentioned in that link they have to prove they were out of pocket for the amount claimed and to my knowledge this has yet to be done in a court despite several attempts, all of which were thrown out.

From an Information Security perspective I am very interested in the outcome of the DVLA being taken to court for providing personal information to this type of company. They are being accused of breaches of the DPA as well as being an accessory to harassment.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #10 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:29:17 »

I think, without knowing exactly what you have received, you will not get the correct advice.

LC0112G's advice to ask on pepipoo or similar is good. I would scan the documents you have received, redact any details that could identify the case, and post there for advice.

Especially given that this is the first you have heard of this matter, there are many, many grounds on which you could appeal, but if it's actually got to the stage that they have applied to court, and it's not just an official-looking threat letter from a private company trying it on, then you might need to look for more qualified legal advice, TBH.

LC0112G · « **Reply #11 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:32:54 »

Quote from: amba on 06 March 2015, 10:20:23

Lots of conflicting advise $:-\$

I am worried that if no papers are returned judgement will be taken against her by default as adised by LC0112G and she will get hit with a fine.

If we just fill out the forms and return stating we dispute the claim and let it go to court I assume somedody will then pick up the glaring mistake with the dates .The company will then go back through any past records and just issue another with another date on so this could go around and around almost for ever .

Do not ignore. This will not go away if you ignore. It's reached the stage where they have filed a claim with the small claims court (form N1 plus court papers). If you don't defend, you will lose. If you lose, you MUST pay or you'll end up with baliffs at the door, and a CCJ on your credit record which will affect you for many years (loans mortgages declined).

However, Debt Enforcement and Action Ltd (DEAL) are a well know bunch of shysters, and you can defeat them with a bit of effort.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5188519&highlight=debt+enforcement+action+ltd

Gaffers · « **Reply #12 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:37:58 »

Quote from: amba on 06 March 2015, 10:20:23

Lots of conflicting advise $:-\$

I am worried that if no papers are returned judgement will be taken against her by default as adised by LC0112G and she will get hit with a fine.

If we just fill out the forms and return stating we dispute the claim and let it go to court I assume somedody will then pick up the glaring mistake with the dates .The company will then go back through any past records and just issue another with another date on so this could go around and around almost for ever .

Personally i would do nothing but keep a copy of the letter with the wrong date. If you do reply just say that you were not in the car park on the date of the alleged offense and that by asking you for money for an offense for which you were not responsible amounts to harassement and is illegal under ....blah...blah (plenty of templates available for that legal parlence) don't say that their date is horrendously wrong just say "it wasn't me, boo hoo, why are you harassing me and causing me stress?"

Like I said there is an element of the DPA here that you could also explore in that by obtaining your PPI (Personally Identifiable Information) under false pretences for the purpose of harassement is illegal under Section 55 of the DPA. I personally would take them to town on their Registration and Notification requirements, asking for proof etc but then this is the domain of my job so I know what exactly to ask for.

amba · « **Reply #13 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:43:30 »

Cheers guys.

Off to work , now but will have a good think and another thorough read up later.

Anybody fancy being our legal representative then

LC0112G · « **Reply #14 on:** 06 March 2015, 10:48:00 »

Quote from: Monsieur Guffer on 06 March 2015, 10:37:58

Personally i would do nothing but keep a copy of the letter with the wrong date. If you do reply just say that you were not in the car park on the date of the alleged offense and that by asking you for money for an offense for which you were not responsible amounts to harassement and is illegal under ....blah...blah (plenty of templates available for that legal parlence) don't say that their date is horrendously wrong just say "it wasn't me, boo hoo, why are you harassing me and causing me stress?"

I strongly disagree. He has received form N1 plus official court papers. This IS going to court and he WILL lose if he doesn't defend. We're well past the point of replying to the parking company.

Quote from: Monsieur Guffer on 06 March 2015, 10:37:58

Like I said there is an element of the DPA here that you could also explore in that by obtaining your PPI (Personally Identifiable Information) under false pretences for the purpose of harassement is illegal under Section 55 of the DPA. I personally would take them to town on their Registration and Notification requirements, asking for proof etc but then this is the domain of my job so I know what exactly to ask for.

All good points, but, these avenues are in addition to defending the court papers, not instead of.

biggriffin · « **Reply #15 on:** 06 March 2015, 11:38:17 »

Right so. The op has received form N1, which says in the past he had already been issued with a parking charge,and ignored it,
So the parking company have started proceedings,
Also mansure guffer, standing there going nan nana I,know what to do is very helpful for the op.
I would take lc110 advice,as it has always been correct and helpful for others on previous occasions.

chrisgixer · « **Reply #16 on:** 06 March 2015, 12:25:44 »

Have received letters from similar parking vultures in the past, and binned them. Nothing further came of it.

However. No experience of this N1 malarkey though and not sure if the law has changed since.

bigegg · « **Reply #17 on:** 06 March 2015, 12:42:11 »

LC110 is correct.
If this is an OFFICIAL N1, then do not ignore it.

Which court issued it?

The first thing to do is acknowledge it, stating you will be making a full defence. You can do this online if the claim has been issued from the Bulk Processing centre.
This will give you an extra 14 days to provide your defence.

Your defence can then be drafted - as a rough guide, depending upon the exact "particulars of claim", the defence will be something like

1. The defendant denies using the car park at the time and date claimed.
2. The defendant neither admits nor denies entering any contract with the claimant, and puts the claimant to strict proof such a contract was entered.
3. Notwithstanding the above, the defendant submits that the claimed "charge" is a penalty charge for breach of contract, and is thus unlawful.
4. The defendant puts the claimant to strict proof that the "charge" is a reasonable estimate of the claimants costs due to the alleged breach of said contract.

You will get good advice on www.consumeractiongroup.com as well as peipoo. Not sure about MSE, I find them a bit "fluffy".

But to repeat:

DO NOT IGNORE IF THIS IS A REAL COURT LETTER.

If it's not real, but is made out to be, tear them a new cakehole.

amba · « **Reply #18 on:** 06 March 2015, 12:42:24 »

Just got back home for a bit of lunch and have now filled in the form and got SWTSMBO to duly sign.

Have stated the claim is disputed as follows:

The vehicle was not parked in the place as stated on the claimants form at the times or date given.....(Fact how could it be as stated 010/01/1900,but this wasnt put on the form.

Also stated that no previous correspondance has every been received before in this matter and believed it was just a "scam" to claim money with threats and menaces as was annoyed that they could just get vehicle details and make false claims..( Fact how could they ever prove the contary given the dates they state for the alleged offence,if indeed any has been commited)

Stated that the entire claim was disputed.

Form will be going off recorded delivery later today so hopefully this will just get thrown out when somebody sensible at the court level reads through it.

Do we receive anything back from the Court to advise if and when this may be taken to court or that it has been laughed at and thrown in the bin !!

bigegg · « **Reply #19 on:** 06 March 2015, 12:48:38 »

oops.

That will now be entered as your defence...
If it goes to court (unlikely, but possible!), you *may* need to apply to court to submit an altered defence.
Don't worry about it for now, tho.

Other things to mention: "no compliance with pre-action protocols" (basically, court should be a last resort, not a first, so a claimant would be expected to have made previous contact with the defendant).

You will receive an acknowledgement from the court that your defence has been submitted, and that the claimant then has a limited time (14 days I think) to pay a further fee to go ahead with the claim, or drop the case.

You don't have to do anything for the moment, but have a read round on the suggested forums

LC0112G · « **Reply #20 on:** 06 March 2015, 12:51:36 »

Quote from: chrisgixer on 06 March 2015, 12:25:44

Have received letters from similar parking vultures in the past, and binned them. Nothing further came of it.

However. No experience of this N1 malarkey though and not sure if the law has changed since.

Prior to 2012, the advice was to ignore. The parking company could then either move on to some other (easier to intimidate) sucker, or try to take you to court. The problem they had was that they could only sue the Driver, and not the Registered Keeper. They get the RK details from DVLA. But there was no way to force the RK do disclose who the Driver at the time was, and legally only the Driver could be held responsible. If they did discover who the Driver was, they could try and sue through the small claims route - N1 and court papers. However if the RK stayed stumm, and ignored all paperwork, then the parking company were never going to win.

In 2012 the Protection of Freedom Act was passed. This gives the parking companies the ability to persue the Registered Keeper of the vehicle for their money. Hence, if the RK ignores all the paperwork, the parking companies now sue the RK, issue N1 + court papers. If you don't defend, then you lose by default, and have to pay the increased charges.

So yes the law has changed, and ignoring a private parking ticket is now a very risky thing to do. It may work with some companies (those that don't "do court"), but many of them now ARE taking legal action against the RK. Most of these parking tickets can be defeated well before it reaches the court stage if you follow the MSE/Pepipoo appeals routes. However, if it gets to court and you aren't well prepared you can get shafted.

Do ya feel lucky, punk? Do Ya?

amba · « **Reply #21 on:** 06 March 2015, 12:54:35 »

Cheers Bigegg.

Paperwork looks slightly iffy tbh and looks like it has been scanned off something.It has a rubber stamp stating date served and has a photocopy signature by somebody called..Mr.M.Schwartz.(Solicitor) but has no address so imagine this is just taken off a word processor.

The claim form is entered at the Northampton County Court and below that is a sticker with CCMCC 02/03/2015 and then a pressumably ref number on the sticker.Below that is a very faint stamp saying SEAL with a crown and below that the wording County Court ,which looks like something from a John Bull kids printing set.Below that it is stating that you should indicate your preferred court for the hearing which has been filled in as Barnet Civil and Family Court Centre.

The set of court documents for her response look much more legal and has stated that when completed they should be returned to ..County Court Money Claims Centre,PO Box 527,Salford M5 0BY.

amba · « **Reply #22 on:** 06 March 2015, 12:58:50 »

As it hasnt yet been sent off should I attach the extra statements and put this on a seperate sheet.

1. The defendant denies using the car park at the time and date claimed.
2. The defendant neither admits nor denies entering any contract with the claimant, and puts the claimant to strict proof such a contract was entered.
3. Notwithstanding the above, the defendant submits that the claimed "charge" is a penalty charge for breach of contract, and is thus unlawful.
4. The defendant puts the claimant to strict proof that the "charge" is a reasonable estimate of the claimants costs due to the alleged breach of said contract.

Didnt want it to sound like she was a solicitor

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #23 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:05:20 »

If it were me I'd take into account:

1) contact the court service and ascertain if this is a genuine court issued document

2) if it is, do not under any circs ignore it.

3) in my experiences, judges take very unkindly to defendants trying to use 'technicalities' such as a date being printed wrongly, if they have actually made a contravention or committed an offence

4) v important - remember that, whilst a prosecution in a criminal court has to prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt, a small claims court only have to be convinced on "the balance of probabilities". This is a much lower burden of proof meaning more chance of the court deciding against you, and why I typed number 3.

5) you state you've not had correspondence from them before. But did you, or your wife commit the contravention?

If yes you could write to them, and say "ok we think we probably did overstay. But we haven't had any other correspondence from you and £200 is therefore not proportional. On this basis, please accept our offer of £50(or whatever) which is the contravention charge listed on your notices.

If they then still take it to court, despite you trying to resolve it reasonably out of court, the judge would likely frown upon them, and give you credit for this

For legal purposes, all information I've posted is not classified or restricted and is freely available in the public domain. the above is not advice to you, simply considerations I would make in your position. The above is my personal view and in no way connected to any occupation or position I hold, or have ever held. Posts on a forum are no substitute for professional legal advice.

vauxsull · « **Reply #24 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:05:26 »

I also had one last July from Cheshire oaks cinema car park... I ignored the first letter and waiting almost two months for the second.... The car used was my wifes so the mail came addressed to her... Reading various blogs on websites dealing with cowboy parking company's advised us to send a letter back to them stating that she wasn't driving the car that evening but I was.... The intention is to stall them for as long as you can... I expected to receive a letter in my name wanting the £100 charge but I never received one... If I had of had a letter would of sent one back asking for more details...and so it would have gone on and on and on... They want to scare you in to paying ( hence the large bold red ink at the top of the page)... Stand your ground..

bigegg · « **Reply #25 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:06:52 »

If it was issued via MCOL/northnants there should be an online password/user name.

Use that to log on to moneyclaimonline and just acknowledge service, stating you intend to defend in full

That will give you an extra 14 days to sort out a defence - acknowledge NOW. Defence after weekend.

The claim form does sound a bit dodgey, but not neccesarily.

You could always phone northants to ask if the claim number is genuine - if it's not, then the solicitor is very likely to get struck off!

Try not to worry about it too much, tho.

I'm not a lawyer, btw, but I've been through court 5 times in last couple of years, and not lost yet!

vauxsull · « **Reply #26 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:08:48 »

Yes as James said... If its a council issue parking ticket then pay it... My stepson ignored a £30 ticket from Manchester City council and I ended up with a letter from the high court bailiffs telling me they where going to seize goods from my house the next day unless £300 was paid that day... All because his car was registered at my house...

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #27 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:09:50 »

If you have been served genuine court papers, I'd reply now only to the court, and not correspond with the parking company

bigegg · « **Reply #28 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:18:56 »

Quote from: JamesV6CDX on 06 March 2015, 13:05:20

If it were me I'd take into account:

1) contact the court service and ascertain if this is a genuine court issued document

2) if it is, do not under any circs ignore it.

3) in my experiences, judges take very unkindly to defendants trying to use 'technicalities' such as a date being printed wrongly, if they have actually made a contravention or committed an offence

Depends how it's phrased - "I can neither confirm nor deny as I don't actually know the date of the alleged contravention". Im my experience, judges also don't like particulars of claim being "dashed off" without being checked for accuracy

4) v important - remember that, whilst a prosecution in a criminal court has to prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt, a small claims court only have to be convinced on "the balance of probabilities". This is a much lower burden of proof meaning more chance of the court deciding against you, and why I typed number 3.

5) you state you've not had correspondence from them before. But did you, or your wife commit the contravention?

It's not what happened, it's what can be PROVED happened.
If the date on the claim is wrong, then how can anyone be sure that the time is correct?

If yes you could write to them, and say "ok we think we probably did overstay. But we haven't had any other correspondence from you and £200 is therefore not proportional. On this basis, please accept our offer of £50(or whatever) which is the contravention charge listed on your notices.

If they then still take it to court, despite you trying to resolve it reasonably out of court, the judge would likely frown upon them, and give you credit for this

For legal purposes, all information I've posted is not classified or restricted and is freely available in the public domain. the above is not advice to you, simply considerations I would make in your position. The above is my personal view and in no way connected to any occupation or position I hold, or have ever held. Posts on a forum are no substitute for professional legal advice.

This bit^^^ .
What James said. I am not a Lawyer. My liability to you for any action taking based on what i write is limited to how much you paid me to write it

LC0112G · « **Reply #29 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:19:57 »

Quote from: amba on 06 March 2015, 12:54:35

Cheers Bigegg.

Paperwork looks slightly iffy tbh and looks like it has been scanned off something.It has a rubber stamp stating date served and has a photocopy signature by somebody called..Mr.M.Schwartz.(Solicitor) but has no address so imagine this is just taken off a word processor.

The claim form is entered at the Northampton County Court and below that is a sticker with CCMCC 02/03/2015 and then a pressumably ref number on the sticker.Below that is a very faint stamp saying SEAL with a crown and below that the wording County Court ,which looks like something from a John Bull kids printing set.Below that it is stating that you should indicate your preferred court for the hearing which has been filled in as Barnet Civil and Family Court Centre.

The set of court documents for her response look much more legal and has stated that when completed they should be returned to ..County Court Money Claims Centre,PO Box 527,Salford M5 0BY.

This all sounds genuine to me.

I agree with what bigegg and JamesV6CDX have posted. If you get this wrong you are going to get shafted.

Take your time - use the weekend to research the process in detail. Join either MSE or Pepipoo, and start your own thread there. They are the experts at this, and will tell you how to proceed.

Oh - and since we're all into covering our own ar5es incase someone sues for incorrect advice - I'm not a lawyer either.

amba · « **Reply #30 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:21:25 »

Thanks James.

TBH its not possible to confirm or deny if my wifes car was parked as they stated as this is the very first set of papers that we have ever received. The date of the alleged offence in their claim is 01/01/1900 and no other mention of any other date .

As this is our local village supermarket my wife would park there probably 4 times a week so it isnt likely she would even remeber a specific date even if they had quoted a valid date.The car in question was sold almost 2 years ago so unlikely any memeory of it exists

I take your point about not appearing to be clever but surely they cant just issue claims for the sake of it and then give people the stress and grief of trying to defend .

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #31 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:36:04 »

I'd get some legal advice. If they have proof eg photos, or time stamped cameras, you saying you have no memory won't be much use IMHO

Remember some solicitors firms give a first free consultation and other such offers

steve6367 · « **Reply #32 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:44:18 »

Quote from: minifreek on 06 March 2015, 09:20:21

Tell 'em to go opps themselves LOL

Its a private company and doesn't hold any legality for them to charge you anything for parking...

It's basically an invoice and you have no legal obligation to pay it.....

If, however it is a local authority that has sent it, then it has to be paid...

The car park is presumably a private car park and not controlled by a local authority...?

There is something of this very nature going through the courts and through Parliament to stop this illegal activity and intimidation of these unregulated companies as at the moment there is nothing to stop ANY company from opening a car park and charging you whatever they wish for you to park there...

If it hasn't been sent by registered post, then deny receiving it....

I would ask them for photos of the car parked in the parking spot, thy would have to be original photos and not 'enhanced' by a screenshot that has been clearly zoomed in digitally...

Tell them to do one....

Basically - just ignore it....

That is going to be tricky now its on here!

If the paperwork is from the court and not the company, then don't ignore that.

amba · « **Reply #33 on:** 06 March 2015, 13:54:30 »

We have no intention of denying we received court details ,and hopefully we can establish later today if they are genuine.

The real problem I am having getting my head around is how to deny or admit to something that we dont even know if and when it happened .

All we have is a set of ,pressumably legal court papers,relating to an offence that the claimant states happened 115 years ago on New Years Day .

Just gets me really annoyed that things like this can cause some much agro when you cannot deny or admit either way .Dont like being shafted for any amount of money especially like this .

bigegg · « **Reply #34 on:** 06 March 2015, 14:02:24 »

It's called an "embarrassed" defence.
Basically saying there isn't enough information provided to make a plea.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #35 on:** 06 March 2015, 14:35:37 »

The claimant has failed to provide you with a valid date for the offence. You have since sold the car. So, they have not provided you with a means to confirm that you were responsible, as it may have occurred after you sold the car. In the event that you were responsible, they have sat on it for 2 years without making any attempt to resolve the matter out of court.

The claimant has indicated that their "charge" has been increased as a penalty for non-payment, but they delivered no notification that a charge was due in the first place.

This in addition to the usual arguments that it's a penalty charge and not enforceable, etc...

You really should be able to walk this but, as said, contact the court and establish that it's genuine, then take your time.

Gaffers · « **Reply #36 on:** 06 March 2015, 17:52:48 »

Quote from: LC0112G on 06 March 2015, 10:48:00

Quote from: Monsieur Guffer on 06 March 2015, 10:37:58
Personally i would do nothing but keep a copy of the letter with the wrong date. If you do reply just say that you were not in the car park on the date of the alleged offense and that by asking you for money for an offense for which you were not responsible amounts to harassement and is illegal under ....blah...blah (plenty of templates available for that legal parlence) don't say that their date is horrendously wrong just say "it wasn't me, boo hoo, why are you harassing me and causing me stress?"

I strongly disagree. He has received form N1 plus official court papers. This IS going to court and he WILL lose if he doesn't defend. We're well past the point of replying to the parking company.

Quote from: Monsieur Guffer on 06 March 2015, 10:37:58
Like I said there is an element of the DPA here that you could also explore in that by obtaining your PPI (Personally Identifiable Information) under false pretences for the purpose of harassement is illegal under Section 55 of the DPA. I personally would take them to town on their Registration and Notification requirements, asking for proof etc but then this is the domain of my job so I know what exactly to ask for.

All good points, but, these avenues are in addition to defending the court papers, not instead of.

I am not convinced that this is anything to do with official papers tbh. I too have received 'N1's before and they were 'dangle berries'. It was a form that they called an N1, internally, and designed to confuse and intimidate.and flock all to do with the courts.

Check with the court that a case has actually been filed and if so then go through the process and just wait until they say you parked there in 1900......

I would love to see the judges face.

omegod · « **Reply #37 on:** 06 March 2015, 18:54:43 »

Sounds like utter swollocks to me, had all sorts of scam letters from pretend solicitors due to me not giving a crap about parking on private land. Scan it and block out your name etc so we can see if it's fake , my swmbo is terrified of the correspondence too

BazaJT · « **Reply #38 on:** 06 March 2015, 19:13:55 »

Only advice I would give is that once you've verified that they are indeed genuine court papers then seek out a solicitor who gives a first-albeit short,maybe half hour-consultation free and then you'll know for sure where you stand.

PhilRich · « **Reply #39 on:** 06 March 2015, 19:21:35 »

What I'd like to know is how much did you sell this Vintage motor for!

amba · « **Reply #40 on:** 06 March 2015, 22:12:41 »

I tried ringing the court this afternoon to verify the Ref number but more automated message than ever,so have emailed them and asked they confirm this is a genuine calim they have had logged.If they confim back to say yes I will file the defence as suggested and see what happens.

If they respond advsing this is not genuine then I will be contacting our local solicitor and setting wheels in motion to instigate proceeding against the claim company together with solicitors full costs.

The more I read the actual claim detail the more I have to laugh as obviously it was never checked and is just a blanket standard sheet with 1 paragraph specific to the calim persued..albeit in this instance totally incorrect.

Unsure how to post the scan doc so sorry

Andy B · « **Reply #41 on:** 06 March 2015, 23:12:31 »

Quote from: amba on 06 March 2015, 22:12:41

.....
Unsure how to post the scan doc so sorry

upload the scan as you would a photo to Photobucket/etc and post the picture/scan from there

amba · « **Reply #42 on:** 07 March 2015, 08:28:01 »

Alien language that AndyB sorry.

Uploading pictures is beyond my minor IT abilities

amba · « **Reply #43 on:** 01 July 2015, 16:44:35 »

Well I thought I should just give you all an update of the current status of this.

We received a letter from the court asking if we wished to seek arbitration,which we declined as felt not only our defence was good but the case would be thrown out once somebody read all the paperwork and saw sense as tha claim was for parking on 01/01/1900.

A further letter was recieved advising us that a court date had been set for mid September 2015 and we should be prepared to attend as the case was now going to be dealt with by court proceedings.

Out of the blue yesterday we received another letter advising us that the case had been closed,no further action would be taken and the matter was closed.

In short a total waste of courts time/paperwork ,but fortunatley somebody had seen sense before the hearing

Nick W · « **Reply #44 on:** 01 July 2015, 16:52:05 »

More likely is that on receipt of the court paperwork, the company realised that they weren't going to bully you into paying and that the court would have found in your favour.

So they will have given up on your 'case' and are now concentrating on some other, more gullible sucker.

Rods2 · « **Reply #45 on:** 01 July 2015, 18:00:16 »

Good to see you have got this resolved, but sadly it doesn't take back all of the stress it has caused you and your family.

amba · « **Reply #46 on:** 01 July 2015, 19:31:02 »

Its just bully boy tactics with most of these Private Parking Companies,and in all truth I was quite ready for a good old scrap at court and the pleasure of claiming expenses etc from them.

More stress for SWTSMBO as she was the defendant and almost gave in and paid up on several occassions...I was just her "legal department"

and my wallet takes a lot of prising open

Phil L · « **Reply #47 on:** 02 July 2015, 00:39:45 »

Quote from: Nick W on 01 July 2015, 16:52:05

More likely is that on receipt of the court paperwork, the company realised that they weren't going to bully you into paying and that the court would have found in your favour.

So they will have given up on your 'case' and are now concentrating on some other, more gullible sucker.

I think you're right

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