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[tunnie]

Driving to work today, chap in a van wound down his window and start talking to me. Initially I was thinking, had I cut him up? 

But he just said you don't see many like that and keep it in good condition, proper motor he said. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

What were you driving?

[aaronjb]

Initially I was thinking, had I cut him up? 

Guilty conscience?

[tunnie]

What were you driving?

My trusty stead, the 3.2 which needs a nappy. It drank more this morning, then again I was heavy with right foot as I was late. 

Checked the coolant cap again again it was wet around there, so hoping new tank solves the problems.

Initially I was thinking, had I cut him up? 

Guilty conscience?

It was on the A4, just after the narrow roundabout with Texaco/BP, often a lot of people get cut up there. 

[TheBoy]

Yours is/was one of the tidiest I've seen, though I suspect a few years of low priority has allowed rust to creep in.

As the body is tidy, worth jacking it up and making sure the underside is as good as can be expected, and catching the problem early.

[tunnie]

Yours is/was one of the tidiest I've seen, though I suspect a few years of low priority has allowed rust to creep in.

As the body is tidy, worth jacking it up and making sure the underside is as good as can be expected, and catching the problem early.

I shall post some pictures, after I’ve cleaned it though, it’s still completely rust free exterior bodywork wise. 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Did you order a new Header tank already, Tunnie?

[tunnie]

Yes and I fitted it last night, at around 10PM due to other commitments. 

Fitted, filled it up with cap off. Ran it up to engine temp and made sure stat opened. (top right rad pipe hot) - Burped the system to clear any air leaks, it dropped a bit when stat opened.

Topped it up again this morning before work, however on arriving at work, the level had dropped again.  - I hope it's just settling, as I did drain coolant via the rad tap when emptying the system.

[Doctor Gollum]

Won't bleed fully unless both sides of the climate panel are set to Hi... 

[TheBoy]

Draining it to change coolant bottle. That's keen

Though changing the coolant can never bee too regular, for reasons stated in the past

[tunnie]

Draining it to change coolant bottle. That's keen

Though changing the coolant can never bee too regular, for reasons stated in the past

I had 10L of stuff in garage, so thought why not, besides it was easier/cleaner.

That said, the problem is worse. 

I think the temp new cap (eBay junk) did not form best seal, hence seeing coolant there. New bottle and cap (Vauxhall sourced) it holds pressure better. But I'm seeing an increase in coolant consumption, I'm also seeing a return of miss-fire on start up which is much worse that before and takes a while to clear before it runs well.

[tunnie]

I think question is now, will coolant use stay consistent or will it let go big style at some point. 

[TheBoy]

I think question is now, will coolant use stay consistent or will it let go big style at some point. 

If it does, the leak will be even easier to spot.  Its an interesting view when *ALL* your coolant disappears in a cloud of steam in front of you when going some down the A43.  I blame that DTM fella, as he told me to take it "for a spirited drive" to do some unrelated diags on it

Have you done the pressure test I said a while back? Definitely worth 30 mins of your time

[tunnie]

Pressure tester in Brackley, not had chance yet.

[TheBoy]

Pressure tester in Brackley, not had chance yet.

Well, not worth writing off the car if its a £2 seal

[tunnie]

Pressure tester in Brackley, not had chance yet.

Well, not worth writing off the car if its a £2 seal

Which £2 seal? 

[TheBoy]

Pressure tester in Brackley, not had chance yet.

Well, not worth writing off the car if its a £2 seal

Which £2 seal? 

The one its leaking from.

[tunnie]

That does not help as I don’t know where it’s leaking 

[TheBoy]

That does not help as I don’t know where it’s leaking 

You probably will when you pressure test it with all the plenum off and inlets out

[henryd]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

[tunnie]

That does not help as I don’t know where it’s leaking 

You probably will when you pressure test it with all the plenum off and inlets out

I think I need a visit to Brackley and a curry to confirm this 

[tunnie]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Yes. 

[TheBoy]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Surely that would lead to excessive pressure in coolant system, seeing as cylinder pressure are way more than coolant pressure.

[henryd]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Surely that would lead to excessive pressure in coolant system, seeing as cylinder pressure are way more than coolant pressure.

Which would explain leakage at cap if its venting constantly

[TheBoy]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Surely that would lead to excessive pressure in coolant system, seeing as cylinder pressure are way more than coolant pressure.

Which would explain leakage at cap if its venting constantly

That thought had crossed my mind, but had credited the useless student with a bit more noggin....

[dave the builder]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Surely that would lead to excessive pressure in coolant system, seeing as cylinder pressure are way more than coolant pressure.

4 stroke engine
suck -cylinder pressure negative  sucks coolant too
squash
bang
blow

[TheBoy]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Surely that would lead to excessive pressure in coolant system, seeing as cylinder pressure are way more than coolant pressure.

4 stroke engine
suck -cylinder pressure negative  sucks coolant too
squash
bang
blow

With the squeeze and subsequent bang resulting in proper pressure

[dave the builder]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Surely that would lead to excessive pressure in coolant system, seeing as cylinder pressure are way more than coolant pressure.

4 stroke engine
suck -cylinder pressure negative  sucks coolant too
squash
bang
blow

With the squeeze and subsequent bang resulting in proper pressure

yep, but the coolant droplets won't go back to the coolant through the fail, but gas pressure will ,but Tunnie may not be seeing it .

sniff test or remove all the plugs and pressure test over a long period to see if coolant leaks into cylinder

also worth cracking open the oil sump plug, to check that coolant is not leaking into cylinders over night, then settling in the sump .(water sinks to the bottom ,so you don't need to drain the oil)

[tunnie]

To answer a few questions:

- Coolant pressure is good, I think the leaking cap was eBay crap replacement
- Release new GM and cap, no more than usual hiss after 50 miles.
- There is a whiff of petrol in coolant, at least to my nose.
- Better sealed coolant tank, has seen increase in coolant use
- new tank also sees more of a missfire when cold

That all said, exhaust gas looks fine. Even on cold start, no signs of steam.

[dave the builder]

sniff test like this clicky
though it does sound like a tiny leak , but proper testing (sniff and long term pressure test) would prove ,one way or another .
had it been a simpler engine ,I'd have said wondaweld , but bypassing the matrix, oil cooler ,rad and stat would involve nearly as much work as whipping the one head off on a V6 

[tunnie]

Not really going to waste more money on diagnostic stuff, cold start missfire and loss of coolant is enough for me. It’s a case now of just keep topping it up until it lets go in a big way, or it’s consumption gets to point it can’t do a single run to or from work.

[Doctor Gollum]

Running a proper car isn't really for you then... Better off buying a new Hyundai with its seven year warranty 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Running a proper car isn't really for you then... Better off buying a new Hyundai with its seven year warranty 

Yes he's not willing to sort out some minor issues on his V6 but tells us he wants a cheap V8!   

It's OK just to sell the Omega because you want something different you know Tunnie! 

But you'd probably regret it after mind.... 

[Doctor Gollum]

Running a proper car isn't really for you then... Better off buying a new Hyundai with its seven year warranty 

Yes he's not willing to sort out some minor issues on his V6 but tells us he wants a cheap V8!   

It's OK just to sell the Omega because you want something different you know Tunnie! 

But you'd probably regret it after mind.... 

No time for DIY will very quickly equate to £1,000 bills every time it goes in. They won't tolerate neglect very long.

[tunnie]

Yes he's not willing to sort out some minor issues on his V6 but tells us he wants a cheap V8!   

It's OK just to sell the Omega because you want something different you know Tunnie! 

But you'd probably regret it after mind.... 

Minor issues, it’s the head that’s gone. 

A clue in my lack of time was apparent when I took it to Serek for full service.

I can find some time for basic service work, like on the Zafira. But not constant almost nightly fiddling.

I want to save up for something new, just bad timing as my new car fund is depleted.

[TheBoy]

Minor issues, it’s the head that’s gone. 

Wow. Never seen that on *ANY* V6 Omega.  Not sure how you diagnosed that without removal. Impressive.




If coolant is getting in the cylinder, I would have thought it was far more likely to be the head gasket, rather than the head.


TBH, anything in your current price range suggested in recent threads will need some tinkering - generally the higher it depreciates, the more it will need. A much newer car can be better, but you will get hit on the depreciation yourself - whether you think that's more cost effective than paying someone to fix what is a fairly minor fault on the Omega (that you CBA to diy) depends on what you plan on buying.

[tunnie]

I meant head gasket, just could not be bothered to type it. 

You mention minor fault, but I’ve not a clue as to what you are referring to 

It’s quite possible it will be sent to the scrappy before end of the year....

[VXL V6]

Hmmm, if it did end up being scrapped.... what's the gearbox, diff and drivers door like on it? 

[tunnie]

Hmmm, if it did end up being scrapped.... what's the gearbox, diff and drivers door like on it? 

Gearbox in Serek’s view was poor, to the point he wanted to replace it rather than change the fluid. It’s better but still clonks into 3rd at times

Doors and body all excellent! Not sure on diff

[VXL V6]

Diff - as long as it's quiet at all speeds and isn't loosing fluid it's fine 

It is a shame these cars are disappearing so rapidly now but it's to be expected, I just plan to keep two of mine going for as long as possible now, the third one, the daily might be replaced with something like a Volvo XC90 with a D5 if it expires in an expensive way.

[Kevin Wood]

Sounds like you need to pressurise the cooling system cold and see where it leaks.

I wouldn't be worrying about the head gasket until you've completely eliminated the radiator (passenger side tank seems to be most common area), radiator drain valve, HBV, water pump, oil cooler cover plate, heater matrix and all the rubber hoses for starters.

I also fail to see how you can have enough water leaking into a cylinder to get a misfire yet it's not immediately blowing the pressure cap under load. Sure you haven't got a leaky scuttle dripping water into the plug wells?

[tunnie]

Sounds like you need to pressurise the cooling system cold and see where it leaks.

I wouldn't be worrying about the head gasket until you've completely eliminated the radiator (passenger side tank seems to be most common area), radiator drain valve, HBV, water pump, oil cooler cover plate, heater matrix and all the rubber hoses for starters.

I also fail to see how you can have enough water leaking into a cylinder to get a misfire yet it's not immediately blowing the pressure cap under load. Sure you haven't got a leaky scuttle dripping water into the plug wells?

No it’s not the scuttle, it miss fires after staying in a dry car park after the run to work. I’ve checked Coil pack areas, all dry. Plugs removed on 1-3-5. Plug 1 is very clean compared to rest ( see my other thread )

Serek pressure tested cooling system when he had it for a couple of weeks, he said it was fine with no leaks. 

It was loosing coolant when I took it to him, with same misfire problem.

[tunnie]

I agree on coolant loss to pressure, as on slow run to work it empties half it’s headed tank, yet runs sweet as a nut and no excess pressure

[Doctor Gollum]

Plug 5 was different to plugs 1+3...

And you didn't answer my question regarding bleeding it properly.

It will merrily boil off coolant until it runs out if there's an airlock in the heater

[dave the builder]

was the water pump leaking when you took it to serek ? or the rad ? or what ?
back then you had a visible leak which I assume was resolved and the minor coolant loss is proving hard for you to find ?

[tunnie]

was the water pump leaking when you took it to serek ? or the rad ? or what ?
back then you had a visible leak which I assume was resolved and the minor coolant loss is proving hard for you to find ?

No leak found...

[Doctor Gollum]

Just in case you think a cheap S500 is a good idea...

https://youtu.be/IMFmVYvYqyA

[Nick W]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Surely that would lead to excessive pressure in coolant system, seeing as cylinder pressure are way more than coolant pressure.

it's showing exactly the same symptoms mine did.
Whenever I solved the external leaks(cap, expansion tank and top hose) the leak got worse.
I was resigned to changing the head gaskets, and got the parts together. By the time I started the job, more steam than normal was visible in the exhaust gases as it warmed up. But it wasn't pressurising the cooling system as much as blown head gaskets I had seen previously.


Removing the O/S head revealed a rotten gasket that was the cause of the leak, and a nicely steam cleaned piston. The other side was in a similar state, but wasn't showing signs of leaking.


If it isn't leaking externally(which can take some time to prove) then it has to be internal.

[tunnie]

Certainly the misfire at cold start with coolant loss is indicitive of water getting in the cylinder/s

Surely that would lead to excessive pressure in coolant system, seeing as cylinder pressure are way more than coolant pressure.

it's showing exactly the same symptoms mine did.
Whenever I solved the external leaks(cap, expansion tank and top hose) the leak got worse.
I was resigned to changing the head gaskets, and got the parts together. By the time I started the job, more steam than normal was visible in the exhaust gases as it warmed up. But it wasn't pressurising the cooling system as much as blown head gaskets I had seen previously.


Removing the O/S head revealed a rotten gasket that was the cause of the leak, and a nicely steam cleaned piston. The other side was in a similar state, but wasn't showing signs of leaking.


If it isn't leaking externally(which can take some time to prove) then it has to be internal.

This also matches, my nice clean spark plug, which is really shinny compared to the rest!

[tunnie]

All fitted at the same time, same brand, spot the odd one out...

[Viral_Jim]

Just in case you think a cheap S500 is a good idea...

https://youtu.be/IMFmVYvYqyA

I knew what that video was going to be before I opened the link. You and I seem to have very similar youtube subs 

[Doctor Gollum]

  Not actually a subscriber of that lot, but have a keen interest in the S Class. 

Nothing on that list is a surprise, and a bit of canny part sourcing and DIY would bring it below £3k... 

[dave the builder]

Not actually a subscriber of that lot, but have a keen interest in the S Class. 

Nothing on that list is a surprise, and a bit of canny part sourcing and DIY would bring it below £3k... 

more rust than an omega that's lived in puff the magic dragon's seaside retreat though
it's a dog even if you fixed mechanical 

[Doctor Gollum]

Not actually a subscriber of that lot, but have a keen interest in the S Class. 

Nothing on that list is a surprise, and a bit of canny part sourcing and DIY would bring it below £3k... 

more rust than an omega that's lived in puff the magic dragon's seaside retreat though
it's a dog even if you fixed mechanical 

Yes and no...

[TheBoy]

Speculating further is pointless until that coolant pressure test is done.

We know (non 1998 3.0l) HGF on V6s are rare, and the MLS gasket is even rarer, so lets prove its not external first.


For reference, both times my MV6 HG failed (not to cylinder, but leaked external), there was no sign of the leak unless it was pressurised. Yet it used a 5l can of concentrate a fortnight.  Both times, absolutely obvious when pressured.

[tunnie]

Went to top up coolant this morning, last time drove was Friday. Entire header tank empty, it refused to clear its miss-fire. Previously it would miss for about 5s then clear and run fine. Ran it up to full temp, still would not clear and a lot of white steam out the back and miss firing.

Checked scuttle area even though heavy rain, dry underneath. All coil pack area was dry.

So crunch time now, bargain banger or something newer.  Hummmm

[Viral_Jim]

So crunch time now, bargain banger or something newer.  Hummmm

Given your lack of time for DIY, I'd say get something newer. With your current mileage you'd be unlucky if you needed to do anything other than an annual service and topping up the washer fluid.

Then again, there's nothing easier than spending someone else's money 

[Doctor Gollum]

Hyundai i40 diesel should tick all your requirements 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Fiesta diesel should tick all your requirements 

FTFY. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Fiesta diesel should tick all your requirements 

FTFY. 

Either or

[tunnie]

So crunch time now, bargain banger or something newer.  Hummmm

Given your lack of time for DIY, I'd say get something newer. With your current mileage you'd be unlucky if you needed to do anything other than an annual service and topping up the washer fluid.

Then again, there's nothing easier than spending someone else's money 

Im thinking banger barge to see me through winter, to not rush a decision.

[tunnie]

Hyundai i40 diesel should tick all your requirements 

I’m having challenges at home with my wife not being well at the moment. So f*** off with your stupid side swiping comments and faces. 

[Doctor Gollum]

We all have 'life' to deal with. Sorry to hear that she's not well, believe it or not, I know exactly how worrying this can be.

The last thing you need is an unreliable car... posh, cheap or otherwise, and as appliances go, the Hyundai (or a Toyota) would be about as hassle free as you can get.

The smilies are the only way of adding any sort of tonguefirmlyincheekness to anything typed.

[Viral_Jim]

Im thinking banger barge to see me through winter, to not rush a decision.

Good point, dropping a five figure sum on a car wouldn't be something to do in haste, if you haven't fully made your decision.

Sorry to hear your OH isn't well, I hope she gets back to full health quickly!

[Doctor Gollum]

Could also get the Omega diagnosed properly and fixed.

Be cheaper and less hassle than buying another barge to smoke around...

[Viral_Jim]

Probably wouldn't cost the earth to have it trailered to Serek and back again...

[Doctor Gollum]

Typically a pound a mile... Or £50 trailer hire plus fuel. 

[TheBoy]

So crunch time now, bargain banger or something newer.  Hummmm

I would seriously look at repair costs if you think it is the HG, as a banger will need £500 dropped on it to fix its niggles, plus the unknown element, and what you've been looking at will need constant work - the nature of big bangers.  Given your current status, you could do without that.  At least your car is a known entity, and a trusted garage would not be all that dear, as discussed privately.

The Omega Elite is a very hard car to match. Irrespective of price.

Or bite the bullet for a near new car, if you can afford it, if just for commuting, a small far east shitbox costs next to nothing at about 3-4yrs old.

[TheBoy]

I still aint convinced it HG mind.

[Doctor Gollum]

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201906048647748

For example... Local too

[Sir Tigger KC]

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201906048647748

For example... Local too

That's just cruel!        Poor Tunnie!   

[amba]

Just diagnose the fault and then get it fixed...will cost a lot less than the other garbage which has been suggested as replacements .

You like the car/enjoy the car ...get it fixed

[Doctor Gollum]

That's the thing, if he did genuinely want to run the Omega forever, it would have been fixed months ago.

If other things are being impacted by running a fussy fuel hungry barge, then he needs an appliance.

I am not the only one suggesting it, regardless of whether it is appreciated or not...