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[tunnie]

3.2 is suffering a miss-fire on startup, when cold started first thing in the morning it misses on one cylinder. Blip the throttle a few times and within ~5-10 seconds it clears and runs fine. Then on 25 mile run it's all good, don't have any issues.

Start to go home after work, it's generally good, although sometimes will do same thing.

Codes are 0300 and 0305, so missing on pot5.

Both banks had replacement coil packs, as part of new cam covers, all fitted by Serek (be it sourced from here, so used) and I've put new spark plugs in 1-3-5 bank.

What's troubling me is I also have a minor coolant loss, which I cannot track down.  - Not sure if it's linked, as always told the 3.2 HG's are bullet proof. 

Only time I've seen similar issues with with HG failure and coolant weeping into the cylinder, miss-firing on startup and then clearing. 

[tunnie]

As part of my house extension work many tools were moved away, so my compression tester is up in Brackley, might need to source that and test drivers side bank.

[JamesV6CDX]

Remove 135 coil pack

Check for water or oil contamination (could be from scuttle foam etc)

Inspect coil pack boot

If nothing so far

- check plug is tight (they work loose)

If it is tight, remove it and inspect it. If there’s been water in the pot (unlikely) it will appear washed.

You should find the cause there somewhere.

Compression test it by all means but that’s likely to be inconclusive imho in these circs

[VXL V6]

How do you know the used coil pack is good?

[tunnie]

Just about to post some pictures, coil packs removed all good, these are the replacements that serek fitted.

How do you know the used coil pack is good?

I don't... but it had the miss-fire before I took it to Serek. Fault has remained across 2 packs, so I find it unlikely the packs are at fault.

[tunnie]

Coil pack boots fine...



Pot5 plug...

[Doctor Gollum]

Possibly wiring, esp if disturbed recently for hbv work*. but are these the plugs you changed last week 

Also pic of coil pack is largely useless...

Need to see the condition of the metal plates... Visible through the slots on the underside. Any hint of corrosion and they're on borrowed time.

Plug thread also looks rusty so probably a sign of water ingress, most likely scuttle related. After all, it's not like there's been any rain lately.

* For the record, I am not suggesting that anything Serek might have done has caused this, but the 3.2s do get hot and the loom may well be starting to go brittle, especially if it hasn't been disturbed for a while

It wouldn't be the first 3.2 loom I have had to change for a persistent misfire.

[tunnie]

The loom in MotherT's 3.0 Estate is what killed it in the end, random miss-fires, tracked it down to splits in number of wires on a massive loom.

Serek did not put new plugs in, but he did strip down the replacement coil packs and sort boots out. Close visual inspection of coil pack showed no obvious cracks or damage. That said they are quite old these replacements, I bought them years ago when Omegas were being broken all the time and parts were super cheap.

I cleared all the codes again today as arrived at work, will see which ones come back again. Can only think brand new coil pack might be last option, before considering either loom or possible HG. (seeing how coolant loss goes)

[Andy H]

Possibly wiring, esp if disturbed recently for hbv work*. but are these the plugs you changed last week 

Also pic of coil pack is largely useless...

Need to see the condition of the metal plates... Visible through the slots on the underside. Any hint of corrosion and they're on borrowed time.

Plug thread also looks rusty so probably a sign of water ingress, most likely scuttle related. After all, it's not like there's been any rain lately.

* For the record, I am not suggesting that anything Serek might have done has caused this, but the 3.2s do get hot and the loom may well be starting to go brittle, especially if it hasn't been disturbed for a while

It wouldn't be the first 3.2 loom I have had to change for a persistent misfire.

Plug thread looks to be oily (not rusty) to me

Plug looks like it has been steam cleaned to me - but I would want to compare it with the other two plugs on that bank before fitting new head gasket(s).

I know that the 3.2 head gaskets *never* fail but the youngest Omega is now 16 years old. (also Tunnie used to be a demon anti freeze flusher but I bet it has been more than 4 years since he last changed the antifreeze on this one)

[tunnie]

I’ll post other plugs shortly... age wise all 2 years, replaced when Kevin did Cambelt.

Coolant flush probably around 3 years ago, in attempt to improve heater matrix output.

[tunnie]

Pot1



Pot3



Pot5

[Nick W]

Nothing wrong with those.

[Doctor Gollum]

Is it still losing coolant? I suspect that the drop was simply an airlock following hbv change and you simply hadn't checked it prior to getting home from work in an 'oh blast I meant to check the coolant level when I got back from... ' type of way.

Even an abused 3.2 should see over 250k without a headgasket going. And if it was leaking, the car would be consuming gallons of coolant. And you would hear it gurgle into the cylinder when you turned it off.

Coil pack, wiring or damp.

[Doctor Gollum]

That said, a lot of what you have posted on this thread is completely at odds with...

This from Gen Car Chat...

I abandoned my 3.2 with him around 3 weeks ago, before I left for Ireland in the Zafira. Collected it today and it's running sweet as a nut!

When I limped it up there it would start but with a miss-fire and run lumpy but would generally sort itself out, managed to drop it there in successfully, it's had a mini overhaul...

- Cam Covers and gaskets
- New coil packs, which I had lying around. Although I may get brand new set. (old ones seriously cracked up)
- Oil and Filter change
- Oil change and gaskets on the gearbox, which now changes much smoother. Serek mentioned it was full of crud in the sump  - That said it changes smoother than before, so maybe some life left in it yet.
- Fuel filter change
- Brake Fluid flush and change
- HBV change, source of coolant leak. Was only 2 year old genuine example.

If you're trying to justify binning it for a new car, say it out loud and get done... If not, decide what the issue actually is so that we can help more productively 

[tunnie]

Not looking to get shot, it's still loosing coolant. Around fingers width in header tank every ~50 miles or so.

Coil packs dry, no sign of moisture. Might have to try a new coil pack first, don't fancy trying to find fault in the loom.

[Doctor Gollum]

Loom fault will either be the trigger wire between the ecu and the coil pack plug or a busted plug not fitting the coil pack correctly... Easily crushed when fitting the coil pack if not paying attention. 

Coolant has more chance of being the radiator than the head... But if it's not hitting the floor, it is evaporating off. Don't ignore the header tank, cracks around the cap neck can look like moulding seams

Hth

[tunnie]

Was very careful refitting everything, ordered a replacement new cap. Fingers crossed it’s that.

[VXL V6]

Can you smell coolant when it's hot / cooling down? Had to replace radiators in a couple of Omegas I've had because of fine cracks at the very top of the n/s plastic shroud - as it gets worse you see it dripping by the drain plug that gives the impression that the drain plug is weeping.

[dave the builder]

you could rig up a simple pressure test rig with a foot pump and some hose clamps and hose 

[Nick W]

you could rig up a simple pressure test rig with a foot pump and some hose clamps and hose 

Get a mountain bike or motor bike inner tube, cut it opposite the valve and attach to the cooling system in place of the driver's side radiator hose. Pressurise to 1bar, and go for a long lunch. It should hold pressure for that long. You can check used radiators this way, although it's pointless when a new one is <£100

[tunnie]

Can you smell coolant when it's hot / cooling down? Had to replace radiators in a couple of Omegas I've had because of fine cracks at the very top of the n/s plastic shroud - as it gets worse you see it dripping by the drain plug that gives the impression that the drain plug is weeping.

Yes! There is a general whiff of coolant when hot and as I get out of the car. I’ll have a look around that area, so you have to take plastic top trim off to see it?

you could rig up a simple pressure test rig with a foot pump and some hose clamps and hose 

It’s been pressure tested are Serek’s = All good

[VXL V6]

Yes trims off a decent torch, difficult to see clearly but may see traces / stains of dried up coolant in that area.

[dave the builder]

you could rig up a simple pressure test rig with a foot pump and some hose clamps and hose 

It’s been pressure tested are Serek’s = All good

coolant is going somewhere , so not all good 

you could rig up a simple pressure test rig with a foot pump and some hose clamps and hose 

Get a mountain bike or motor bike inner tube, cut it opposite the valve and attach to the cooling system in place of the driver's side radiator hose. Pressurise to 1bar, and go for a long lunch. It should hold pressure for that long. You can check used radiators this way, although it's pointless when a new one is <£100

I was thinking remove and blank the small overflow/return at the expansion tank ,then that leaves a small bore pipe to attach pump too ,easy to get at

[tunnie]

Something like this, to track leak?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F230723938073

[TheBoy]

Remove plenum (but keep its coolant lines in tack. Remove intake. Pressure cooling system to about 8psi. Visually look for leaks in valley, rad sides, coolant bottle, and block to head areas.


Misfire - jump in it tomorrow. Flow throttle to full kickdown, and crank - it shouldn't start. Crank for a good 5s, and repeat. Then start normally. Improvement? If so, replace injector.

[tunnie]

Will try pedal start trick, in Wales until Sunday though in the Zafira.

I have no means to pressure test coolant system. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Will try pedal start trick, in Wales until Sunday though in the Zafira.

I have no means to pressure test coolant system. 

Do you own a bicycle pump?

[Nick W]

Will try pedal start trick, in Wales until Sunday though in the Zafira.

I have no means to pressure test coolant system. 

Do you own a bicycle pump?

that, a cheap bike inner tube and a couple of hose clamps.
Or a screw a replacement Schrader metal valve into a new(that doesn't leak) expansion cap and pressurise using your bike pump, less than 1bar is enough.
You could buy a test set, but you'll probably have to bodge an adapter so it's not worth the expense for the use you'll get.

[tunnie]

I would have to buy all that, plus no time to do it.

Just realised though, I’ve not checked the passenger footwell yet to see if that’s wet.

[Nick W]

I would have to buy all that, plus no time to do it.

Oh.


Back to guessing then.


Good luck

[tunnie]

I would have to buy all that, plus no time to do it.

Oh.


Back to guessing then.


Good luck

1) it’s already been pressure tested, by Serek. (As mentioned in another thread) - Nothing found. Why would I be different with a bodged setup?


2) I’ve bought UV dye kit to help trace the leak.

[Doctor Gollum]

1. It's possible that the leak wasn't immediately obvious due to the car being cold/hot/heater on/off etc.

2. If you don't have time to run a simple check, how will this help?

Also the only thing that you will find in the passenger footwell is rain water as all the heater connections are on the right

When you say the drivers footwell is dry, did you lift the actual carpet? The insulation underneath will hold  couple of litres easily...

[tunnie]

As I recall the heater matrix can break and leak into passenger footwell

[Nick W]

As I recall the heater matrix can break and leak into passenger footwell

You wouldn't be struggling to diagnose a heater matrix leak.
Your nose will tell you what the problem is every time you get in the car.
Even a small leak will soak into the plentiful sound deadening and smell for ages.

[Doctor Gollum]

As I recall the heater matrix can break and leak into passenger footwell

Only when the drivers one is full up.

[Doctor Gollum]

As I recall the heater matrix can break and leak into passenger footwell

You wouldn't be struggling to diagnose a heater matrix leak.
Your nose will tell you what the problem is every time you get in the car.
Even a small leak will soak into the plentiful sound deadening and smell for ages.

Also largely true if it is leaking anywhere near the engine or exhaust 

[Vauxhall2004]

Any smoke? From exhaust

[tunnie]

Misfire - jump in it tomorrow. Flow throttle to full kickdown, and crank - it shouldn't start. Crank for a good 5s, and repeat. Then start normally. Improvement? If so, replace injector.

Just did this, it fired up with throttle floored. 

Same problem, miss fire which then cleared.

[Andy H]

I would have to buy all that, plus no time to do it.

Oh.


Back to guessing then.


Good luck

^^^ this
I made mine using an old Carlton pressure cap and a schrader Valve.

I spent weeks trying to find the coolant loss on my first Omega.  Took about 20 minutes with a test cap and bicycle pump.
If you have any doubt about coolant leaking into no 5 you should leave it pressurised overnight then pull the spark plugs and look for coolant the next morning.

[Andy H]

If you suspect an injector you could swap that injector to a different cylinder to see if the fault moved to that cylinder.

The risk is that 15 year old O rings might not like to be disturbed 

[tunnie]

Well new cap went on this morning, level appears good after the run to work but it would tend to drop after cooling down. Will check at lunch, but this time I'm not getting that whiff of sweet coolant smell when I checked after stopping.

[tunnie]

So on the miss-fire did a little test this morning, I switched on the ignition 3 times. Each time I left it for ~5 seconds on 'full' dash light stage and did not crank engine. Switch off ignition and repeat.

When I did crank and start it, all fine no issues.

 

[TheBoy]

Misfire - jump in it tomorrow. Flow throttle to full kickdown, and crank - it shouldn't start. Crank for a good 5s, and repeat. Then start normally. Improvement? If so, replace injector.

Just did this, it fired up with throttle floored. 

Same problem, miss fire which then cleared.

Either it wasn't floored fully, or you've got leaky injector - the latter could cause misfires on startup

[tunnie]

Was fully floored. Priming it once or twice appears to make it start without issue

[TheBoy]

Was fully floored. Priming it once or twice appears to make it start without issue

No mats in the way?

Fully floored, most injection cars should not fire the injectors during cranking. This is a feature to clear a flooded engine.

So if it is starting when fully floored, either its not fully floored, or there is already fuel in the cylinders.


Hope that makes sense

[tunnie]

Fully floored, felt backstop through the gas pedal.

Today ignition on fully twice, it started to problem.

Friday will try just leaving ignition on for ~5 seconds before starting.

[Doctor Gollum]

Fully floored, felt backstop through the gas pedal.

Today ignition on fully twice, it started to problem.

Friday will try just leaving ignition on for ~5 seconds before starting.

Turning the ignition on once, you might as well fire it up