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[Varche]

I am all for tech but isnt this just increasing speeds for areas with existing service? ( assuming you have a 5G handset)

Am I the only person that thinks mobile phone isn't fit for purpose. Lots of areas whilst driving from Yorkshire to Scotland including motorway with no signal. In Portpatrick there is no 4g signal on 3 and quite often no 3g signal. Portpatrick to Glasgow very patchy service even using car antenna.

Why hasn't the regulator insisted on 99% coverage of the country?

[TheBoy]

Well, count yourself lucky to get a signal *ANYWHERE* with Three. They have pretty poor coverage.  The real networks - Voda, O2, EE - do have pretty reasonable outdoor coverage.


The UK regulator, OFCOM, are totally inept in every way.  Cynics might actually go as far as saying corrupt.  I'm kinder, and think its just they are incompetent.

For the licence auctions for both 3G and 4G, there was a demand as part of that that they had to provide 95% (from memory, might be slightly different) coverage.  Being inept/corrupt/incompetent, they never specified what that meant, so all mobile networks took the easier option of 95% population coverage, not 95% geographical coverage.  And OFCOM never even bothered to enforce that, too busy meddling elsewhere due to being inept/corrupt/incompetent.  EE is, for other statuary reasons, aiming for 100% outdoor geographical coverage on 4G (not, 4G cannot do native voice calls, you handset will drop back to 3G or 2G, or attempt VoIP instead if your handset and provider support it).

It is catastrophically expensive to build a mobile network, and catastrophically expensive to run it, and UK consumers don't want to pay anything for the network element (but are happy to pay a grand for a shiny handset - go figure).  Proper, large 5G masts are going to need at least a 10Gbps backhaul per site, which is catastrophically expensive.  Its proper big money.

So its only natural, like 4G, 3G, GSM or even TACS before it, its initially deployed where there will be lots of early adopters. Cities.  No point putting the first ones in a remote valley where you may at best get 1 or 2 users, as putting up an expensive mast, then paying a horrifically high rental on your fast backhaul. Clearly that's financial suicide.  You need to get it to the masses first.

As to 5G, I wont be an early adopter.  Its unlikely to come to Brackley in the next couple of years (although cell tower software updates could potentially be applied, that doesn't solve the backhaul issue - one of the reasons O2 were so slow to roll out 3G), and I have no plans to update my ageing handset for a couple of years, due to cost.  The combination of my handset, an iPhone 6S, and my provider EE is good enough for me.  Its incredibly rare I can't get a good 4G outdoor signal.  And 4G is plenty good enough for me - Christ, I've had an Ookla speedtest show it over 140MBps before (granted, at Wembley Stadium, obviously one of EE's showcase sites).  However, I think the technology available added to the desire for more ISPs to tie up with mobile operators and build 5G femtocells into consumer routers and use the fixed broadband lines as the backhauls, could allow for better mobile coverage in rural villages.  But obviously the hype is all about its speed speed speed…  ...and I think that mises the point.

[STEMO]

I got enough of a signal to navigate Daley Forest on google maps this week, on Three. TBH, I've never had any problems with them at all. When I was away last week, I obviously didn't trust the free pub Wi-fi, so used my mobile all week, including posting on here.

[Varche]

No signal so no internet all afternoon. Bit of mist.

How come the regulator didn't insist mast sharing? OK cost but I could get a full signal this afternoon on my Spanish mobile. I don't pay any extra for that.

[TheBoy]

No signal so no internet all afternoon. Bit of mist.

How come the regulator didn't insist mast sharing? OK cost but I could get a full signal this afternoon on my Spanish mobile. I don't pay any extra for that.

Your basic issue is Three is shite. End of.  Any of the other 3 networks would fair significantly better.


As for OFCOM, accept the fact that they are utterly useless, and couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery. Civil Servants. 'nuf said.

[TheBoy]

Although enforced mast sharing would likely reduce rollout speed in rural areas - nobody will erect a mast at great expense, they would wait for somebody else to do it, and then they could jump on that much cheaper.

Also, remember the ongoing backhaul costs are still going to be there.

[Andy B]

We were at a village in the Lakes last week Bampton where neither of us could get a phone or Interweb signal .... I'm on O2 she's on Vodaphone   

[Sir Tigger KC]

I'm with 3 and generally get a good service. 

[Varche]

We are with 3 and it isnt fit for purpose.

By definition a mobile phone is ....well a mobile phone. Imagine if you had a Ford car and it didn't work in the countryside or sections of the M6 in Cumberland. Bit like computers but lets not go there!

Oh and Britain is a technologically adavanced , first world country, relatively 2D country too.

[Lazydocker]

I'm with 3 and generally get a good service. 

Me too, including driving up from N Yorks to Glasgow and around Scotland.

I will confess that the helldesk can be interesting Although it’s quite apparent that TuBy has issues with everything 

[zirk]

In my experience and Im talking about a long time now, Voda and O2 have always nailed it, especially in built up Cities, nailed it as in consistency of Network Service and delivery over the years. EE are pretty much up there now with Voda and O2 and in some cases exceed with there Network, but they've had the advantage of years of juggling and fine tuning between the the Orange and and T Mobile Networks, which I must add a lot of the original TM and Orange Customers suffered with during this merge. Three have never been a properly self dedicated Network always relying on another Network Carriers to fill the gaps for them. In a word they are just not up to being a self built consistent Network.

If you get a good service from Three and are happy then fine, bit they will fall over backwards on high demand City Area's when pushed to thd limits.

[TheBoy]

In my experience and Im talking about a long time now, Voda and O2 have always nailed it, especially in built up Cities, nailed it as in consistency of Network Service and delivery over the years. EE are pretty much up there now with Voda and O2 and in some cases exceed with there Network, but they've had the advantage of years of juggling and fine tuning between the the Orange and and T Mobile Networks, which I must add a lot of the original TM and Orange Customers suffered with during this merge. Three have never been a properly self dedicated Network always relying on another Network Carriers to fill the gaps for them. In a word they are just not up to being a self built consistent Network.

If you get a good service from Three and are happy then fine, bit they will fall over backwards on high demand City Area's when pushed to thd limits.

That about sums it up. Voda did have coverage issues around my part of the world, which kept me as a Cellnet/O2 user for years.

Also, traditionally O2/Voda had the better 900MHz frequencies (for 2G/3G), and T-Mobile and Orange had the less desirable 1.8GHz.  Although its all been mixed up now.

Also, I believe Three no longer use other networks in the UK for fallback, and has been the case for several years.

[TheBoy]

We are with 3 and it isnt fit for purpose.

By definition a mobile phone is ....well a mobile phone. Imagine if you had a Ford car and it didn't work in the countryside or sections of the M6 in Cumberland. Bit like computers but lets not go there!

Oh and Britain is a technologically adavanced , first world country, relatively 2D country too.

The nature of mobile means that its incredibly difficult to provide universal coverage, particularly when using microwave frequencies (and most of Three's 3G network is 2.1GHz), which are essentially line of sight one. And penetration is poor.

So the only solution is more masts. Which as discussed is horrifically expensive and timeconsuming (as none of the Nimbys want a mast near them, particularly in the countryside).

Presumably you bought Three because it offered fantastic mins/txt/data for a low cost.

[TheBoy]

I'm with 3 and generally get a good service. 

Me too, including driving up from N Yorks to Glasgow and around Scotland.

I will confess that the helldesk can be interesting Although it’s quite apparent that TuBy has issues with everything 

At the ABS monthly club meets, we are always taking the piss out of TT (Omegatoy knows who I mean) who is on a legacy Three contract. He gets unlimited mins/txt/data for around £20 a month. But he can never get a usable signal anywhere around Oxfordshire outside of the larger towns. Even when he can get a signal, its so weak you cant hold a conversation.  And he has the audacity to take the piss out of my gayPhone.

I do regularly buy Three SIMs myself, as their Roam like Home means it is a great temporary SIM for outside Europe...   ...with the added advantage that abroad it uses decent networks.

[TheBoy]

Oh and Britain is a technologically adavanced , first world country, relatively 2D country too.

I'm guessing you haven't tried using cellular technology in the US...   ...supposedly tech advanced, 1st world, and mostly flat.  The signal is poor/non existent outside of built up areas, even on the interstates.

[Varche]

Yes the deal was good.

No I havent tried US offering but that sounds like it is also not fitfor purpose.

I bet those climbers stuck in a jam on Everest have better coverage.

Good point on antenna/masts.  Through poor regulation and rush to get service to many the few are overlooked. It could have been different but cheap won.

[zirk]

traditionally O2/Voda had the better 900MHz frequencies (for 2G/3G), and T-Mobile and Orange had the less desirable 1.8GHz.  Although its all been mixed up now.

Takes me back, both Voda and Cellnet used to have the same take it or leave it fixed Charging Fees, £25 per month for the Airtime Service, 25p per Min (33p in London) rounded up to the nearest Min, Diverted calls to your Voicemail where charged per min, then the same charge to retrieve your messages, then all plus Vat, My Bills, just for the Airtime and Calls were on average between £130 to 180 per month, and that was me using it as a bare minimum, couldnt have run my business without it though.

Still remember the first National Poster Advert from Vodafone, A Bloke in a Rowing Boat, Fishing, with the slogan "How to be in when your Out". also in them days only 2 Prefixes, 0860 for Cellnet and 0836 for Voda, still got my Original 0836 Number today.

Then came along Orange, remember the TV and Radio Advert song 1,2,3,4,...... 5,6,7,8, the first Network to charge by the second, Orange was originally owned and Built by Hutchinson Telecom (Wasn't a bad Network as it goes), who sold it off and then started all over again with Three.

At the Launch of Orange, the other PCN Carrier was 121 owned by Mercury Combinations (C&W), who seemed to have built a Network for London and a few Other Major Cities then kinda left it there, I do remember OfCom giving 121 bollockings every now and then, saying either finish it off or pull out and well have your Licences back, which finally got finished off and became T Mobile.

The original idea of the launch of the 2 PCN Networks (Orange and 121-T Mobile) was never really intended for them to be just another Mobile Network, but more of a Network with Value Added Services with ideas like your PCN Phone would automatically become your indoor phone when at Home or at the Office etc, but due to the same GSM Signalling Format it used, Marketing trends and similar Frequency Bands being released around the World they became just that, another Mobile Network in competition with the GSM Boys.

And then the 5th Network Three, the Only Network to be built on 3G Infrastructure (No 2G unless it was handed over to Other Networks to fill the Gaps). Three was originally launched and Marketed as a Video Calling Network, which really didnt take off, and was soon killed off when peeps discovered they could use Skype over the 3G Channels anyway

[TheBoy]

still got my Original 0836 Number today.

Except they have shoved a 7 in

[TheBoy]

Yes the deal was good.

No I havent tried US offering but that sounds like it is also not fitfor purpose.

I bet those climbers stuck in a jam on Everest have better coverage.

Good point on antenna/masts.  Through poor regulation and rush to get service to many the few are overlooked. It could have been different but cheap won.

Everest has no mobile coverage. And satphones are too heave/bulky to haul beyond Base Camp 2.

Why do you think its unfit for purpose? Who has ever promised complete coverage?


As for cheap v universal coverage, market forces dictate that.  Remember, also, most of these rural communities do not want masts in their location.

The coverage maps - not wholly accurate - are available for the 4 UK operators. Differing levels of coverage and differing deals are available, and the UK consumer has choice (and thus better than a state run SNAFU).  Its pretty fair to say, that providing better geographical coverage is more expensive to provide, and thus will be more expensive to the consumer. But, as said, UK consumers have a choice of 4 operators.  Very few people would pick Three for coverage, performance or customer service. Most people picking Three do so because price is more important to them.

[zirk]

still got my Original 0836 Number today.

Except they have shoved a 7 in

Yea, that actually was a God Send for me as it happens.

0836 was the Prefix default number for a lot of the Vodafone Services before it all became 07, also prior to the 07 introduction if you dialed a 6 digit number without the Prefix on the Voda Network (and there were a lot of different Voda Prefix's by then) it would get routed to a 0836 Number whether it was intended to or not.

The story for me was there was a Large Taxi Firm in Rotherham that decided to plaster its 6 digit phone number (without the STD Code) down the side of all its Cabs in Big Print, the last six Digits of thier number was the same as my Voda last 6 digits, meaning after Chucking Out Time, everybody on Vodafone and theres quiet a few of them in the Rotherham and Sheffield Area, would end up calling Me for a Cab. 

It all got a bit frustrating after Midnight in the end  and I came to the conclusion I would either have to change my number or start a Cab Company in Rotherham and probably make a fortune. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

After reading this thread I think I will just be the oldish lady with her 4G phone.

At our age who needs all that complication?

Where have all the A and B button phone boxes gone??

[TheBoy]

still got my Original 0836 Number today.

Except they have shoved a 7 in

Yea, that actually was a God Send for me as it happens.

0836 was the Prefix default number for a lot of the Vodafone Services before it all became 07, also prior to the 07 introduction if you dialed a 6 digit number without the Prefix on the Voda Network (and there were a lot of different Voda Prefix's by then) it would get routed to a 0836 Number whether it was intended to or not.

The story for me was there was a Large Taxi Firm in Rotherham that decided to plaster its 6 digit phone number (without the STD Code) down the side of all its Cabs in Big Print, the last six Digits of thier number was the same as my Voda last 6 digits, meaning after Chucking Out Time, everybody on Vodafone and theres quiet a few of them in the Rotherham and Sheffield Area, would end up calling Me for a Cab. 

It all got a bit frustrating after Midnight in the end  and I came to the conclusion I would either have to change my number or start a Cab Company in Rotherham and probably make a fortune. 

Back in the late 90's my office desk phone was a central London number, followed by a sequential set of numbers.

Never ever going into the office, mostly because it was Watford, my office phone was on permanent divert to my mobile.  I too had to deal with chucking out time

[BazaJT]

I've been with Vodafone ever since getting my first mobile phone in the late '90s only problems connection wise I've had was once on the Woodhead Pass[others on different networks also couldn't get a signal]this was back in 2010 so may have changed by now,and strangely here in town where one of my step daughters lives I have to walk to the end of her street to get a signal! I don't know what all these G numbers mean do all I know is that apart from the two instances noted above I can make/receive phone calls and send receive text messages which is all I ask of my phone.

[TheBoy]

I've been with Vodafone ever since getting my first mobile phone in the late '90s only problems connection wise I've had was once on the Woodhead Pass[others on different networks also couldn't get a signal]this was back in 2010 so may have changed by now,and strangely here in town where one of my step daughters lives I have to walk to the end of her street to get a signal! I don't know what all these G numbers mean do all I know is that apart from the two instances noted above I can make/receive phone calls and send receive text messages which is all I ask of my phone.

Voda is patchy around here.  My works phone was Voda until the last round of TUPE shite.  The nearest place I could get a usable Voda signal was a small kiddies playground 2 streets away.  I'm sure all the yum mums used to think I was a perve or something...

[Lizzie Zoom]

I've been with Vodafone ever since getting my first mobile phone in the late '90s only problems connection wise I've had was once on the Woodhead Pass[others on different networks also couldn't get a signal]this was back in 2010 so may have changed by now,and strangely here in town where one of my step daughters lives I have to walk to the end of her street to get a signal! I don't know what all these G numbers mean do all I know is that apart from the two instances noted above I can make/receive phone calls and send receive text messages which is all I ask of my phone.

Snap.  But I became a Vodafone customer for the first time in 1990 when I had my first full car phone fitted to my new Carlton 2ltr CD.  I used it constantly whilst travelling the whole country on business and I do not remember many issues with coverage, apart from parts of Cornwall and Devon, along with the Lake District, where reception is still patchy today.  Vodafone have always given me an excellent service, and that is why I am still with them after almost 30 years.

[zirk]

The nearest place I could get a usable Voda signal was a small kiddies playground 2 streets away.  I'm sure all the yum mums used to think I was a perve or something...

Ah, that was you was it, I remember now, you where the one wearing a Speedo Baseball Cap but the stitching was worn out and the S had fallen off. 

[TheBoy]

The nearest place I could get a usable Voda signal was a small kiddies playground 2 streets away.  I'm sure all the yum mums used to think I was a perve or something...

Ah, that was you was it, I remember now, you where the one wearing a Speedo Baseball Cap but the stitching was worn out and the S had fallen off.