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[05omegav6]

As above really...

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.2884831

[joff]

Not again !!!!!!!!

[05omegav6]

Last contact was at 32,000ft and 470knts, requesting a deviation from the flightplan... not encouraging 

[TheBoy]

Last contact was at 32,000ft and 470knts, requesting a deviation from the flightplan... not encouraging 

To avoid weather, as opposed to a human factor?

[Kevin Wood]

Last contact was at 32,000ft and 470knts, requesting a deviation from the flightplan... not encouraging 

To avoid weather, as opposed to a human factor?

Indeed. Pretty much confirms it was nothing sinister. Otherwise, the pilot would have turned off ADS-B and disappeared. Still, it's something the media can use, coupled with zero understanding, to whip this up into a frenzy.

I'm guessing he hit some bad weather and was unsuccessful in avoiding it.

[05omegav6]

The spokesman for the airline said that the request wasn't routine, which implied that it wasn't for weather purposes...

That said, it had only just happened when I first posted. Latest reports do clearly suggest a weather related detour, which is indeed perfectly routine.

This... http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qz8501/ reveals nothing beyond a quick climb

[Shackeng]

The Cb's in that part of the world are serious bruisers, and tower to well above normal cruise levels, however, unless his weather radar was out, he should normally not have had difficulty avoiding them, regardless of whether approval for avoidance was received. 

[05omegav6]

The Cb's in that part of the world are serious bruisers, and tower to well above normal cruise levels, however, unless his weather radar was out, he should normally not have had difficulty avoiding them, regardless of whether approval for avoidance was received. 

It shouldn't be possible, but could it be a repeat of the Air France crash? That said 32,000 feet is a long way to drop a serviceable aircraft

[Kevin Wood]

The spokesman for the airline said that the request wasn't routine, which implied that it wasn't for weather purposes...

That said, it had only just happened when I first posted. Latest reports do clearly suggest a weather related detour, which is indeed perfectly routine.

This... http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qz8501/ reveals nothing beyond a quick climb

If you look at the previous flight tracks, quite a few have climbed to FL36 around the time that QZ8501 requested this flight level, so it may have been requested purely for an efficient cruise.

ADS-B tracking in that area also drops out in the mid section of the flight so we may not be seeing anything of the abnormal portion of the flight.

[05omegav6]

Makes sense when the track stops, it had been at 32,000 for a while, so in an established cruise... initial climb seemed pretty quick though... not that that is relevant 

[aaronjb]

Not a good time to be flying, maybe.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30625945

[Kevin Wood]

Not a good time to be flying, maybe.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30625945

Nicely done, by the look of it.

Nicely done by the pilots, that is. The media are spouting cr@p, as usual.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I'm amazed that in 2014 they don't know EXACTLY where the plane is.

Should we still be living in 1950 I could understand it.....but in 2014, with GPS, and the technology that goes with it.

[05omegav6]

Not a good time to be flying, maybe.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30625945

Text book landing, stopped quickly too considering a quarter of the brakes were effectively u/s... didn't ground the number 4 engine either by the look of it

Tricky bit will be dragging it to hanger 7 without breaking anything else but it is at least at the right end of the runway for it...

[Kevin Wood]

I'm amazed that in 2014 they don't know EXACTLY where the plane is.

Should we still be living in 1950 I could understand it.....but in 2014, with GPS, and the technology that goes with it.

They will have a very good idea, given that it was under air traffic control at the time, and talking to them up to the minute it disappeared. Once it's underwater, no technology works, so there'll always be a search.

[05omegav6]

I'm amazed that in 2014 they don't know EXACTLY where the plane is.

Should we still be living in 1950 I could understand it.....but in 2014, with GPS, and the technology that goes with it.

Summat to do with Satellite coverage and the way it works? They seem pretty confident that it crashed where they lost contact, and the sea is pretty shallow there, so should find it quite quickly with sonar

[Broomies Mate]

Surely the Black (Orange) boxes will be sending out their beacon.  Technology DOES work under water.  If my £40 Casio can still tell the time after being 100m down, FDR and CVR boxes should be able to.   

[05omegav6]

The issue there is range

You have to be in the same post code to receive the signal...

[Broomies Mate]

The issue there is range

You have to be in the same post code to receive the signal...

Approximately 3 to 4 miles for a minimum of 30 days.

After MH370, the FAA made a suggestion that all FDR's should carry a battery which would last for a minimum of 90 days.  With the advancement of battery technology, it seems implausible that 90 days hasn't been the minimum for a decade or more.

The transponder is tiny, maybe 10cm in length and a couple of centimetres in diameter.  I appreciate the mass has to be kept to a minimum for the survival rate of an impact, but their inherent design hasn't changed for a bloody long time.

[Kevin Wood]

Surely the Black (Orange) boxes will be sending out their beacon.  Technology DOES work under water.  If my £40 Casio can still tell the time after being 100m down, FDR and CVR boxes should be able to.   

A beacon is about as much use as a Casio for locating the black boxes unless you have a good idea where the plane went down.

..and everything in an aircraft is pre-historic technology. This is partly because technology doesn't get into such a safety critical role until it's very well proven, and partly because the bean counters would rather pay for an expensive search occasionally than add extra costs to every flight.

The important thing is that we learn what happened to this flight eventually. How long that takes is immaterial once the prospect of any survivors being found is nil. I would suggest that, for a crash where an aircraft disappears at FL32 and there's no mayday call, the chance of any survivors was always nil.

Of course, the idiotter generation and the lazy journalists who feed from it aren't patient enough to accept that.

[Vamps]

That's 2 now in that area, not terrorist, so has to be Alien................

[Varche]

That's 2 now in that area, not terrorist, so has to be Alien................

Could still be a space vapouriser weapon being tested by a superpower.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Well the Yanks have developed a laser capable of shooting down a drone.... 

[biggriffin]

That's 2 now in that area, not terrorist, so has to be Alien................

Could still be a space vapouriser weapon being tested by a superpower.

The north Koreans, have a Sun powered lazoor that vaporized things it hits.

Hmmm  sounds like a James bond film.
Losing one plane accidentally
Losing two planes careless
But three questions need to be asked, North Korea.

[05omegav6]

Nope all wrong... plane found on the sea bed

And as someone is bound to pipe up about the significance of this,...

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/airasia-plane-overshoots-runway-in-philippines/ar-BBhmazg?ocid=mailsignoutmd...

At which point I would point out that Britannia had two crashes in one day... one at Malaga and one at Gatwick and both due (mostly) to weather conditions. Yet people still fly with them every single day

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Nope all wrong... plane found on the sea bed

And as someone is bound to pipe up about the significance of this,...

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/airasia-plane-overshoots-runway-in-philippines/ar-BBhmazg?ocid=mailsignoutmd...

At which point I would point out that Britannia had two crashes in one day... one at Malaga and one at Gatwick and both due (mostly) to weather conditions. Yet people still fly with them every single day

Yep, as we use cars every day, and I know which has the lesser risk.......flying everytime!

[tigers_gonads]

Just found a body of the coast of Borneo wearing a life jacket 

Imo, the A 320 - 200 has being around for donkeys years and combine that with the general penny pinching / maintenance record of most operators, i'm going for massive structural failure caused by being bounced about by the storm he was trying to avoid 

[Lagondanet]

To lighten the mood. Watched a bit of 'Flight' movie last night. Have you seen it?

[05omegav6]

To lighten the mood. Watched a bit of 'Flight' movie last night. Have you seen it?

Very good film, that

Just found a body of the coast of Borneo wearing a life jacket 

Imo, the A 320 - 200 has being around for donkeys years and combine that with the general penny pinching / maintenance record of most operators, i'm going for massive structural failure caused by being bounced about by the storm he was trying to avoid 

Could simply mean that one person was awake and thought a lifejacket might be a good idea...

That Air France crew were so preoccupied on the way down that noone even suggested a Pan Pan declaration, let alone a Mayday shout...

[tigers_gonads]

That Air France crew were so preoccupied on the way down that noone even suggested a Pan Pan declaration, let alone a Mayday shout...


I could never get my head around that bit tbh
At the end of the day, you know you are at height
You know from the seat of your pants that the aircraft hasn't stalled so you push the nose down a little and open the throttles and take stock of the situation.
The captain was supposed to be a highly experienced ex military pilot so I would have thought that his instincts would have taken over, NOT what a few potentially dodgy instrument readings / pitot tube told him 

That saying that the FBW system on the A320 can be overridden ?

[05omegav6]

That Air France crew were so preoccupied on the way down that noone even suggested a Pan Pan declaration, let alone a Mayday shout...


I could never get my head around that bit tbh
At the end of the day, you know you are at height
You know from the seat of your pants that the aircraft hasn't stalled so you push the nose down a little and open the throttles and take stock of the situation.
The captain was supposed to be a highly experienced ex military pilot so I would have thought that his instincts would have taken over, NOT what a few potentially dodgy instrument readings / pitot tube told him 

That saying that the FBW system on the A320 can be overridden ?

The CVR was pretty clear, without ASI detail, they spent nearly fifteen minutes falling out of the sky failing to understand to why their big comfy bus wasn't climbing. Didn't help that the right hand was pulling back and the left hand was trying to put the nose down to gain speed. Captain, in the jump seat, only realised what his crew were doing as the aircraft dropped below 500ft with the vertical speed off the gauge. Last words were summat like, "You've killed us..."

By it's very nature, Fly by wire has no mechanical back up, merely alternative wiring... The Flight computer, on the other hand...

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Just found a body of the coast of Borneo wearing a life jacket

Imo, the A 320 - 200 has being around for donkeys years and combine that with the general penny pinching / maintenance record of most operators, i'm going for massive structural failure caused by being bounced about by the storm he was trying to avoid 

That has now been denied.

[Kevin Wood]

That Air France crew were so preoccupied on the way down that noone even suggested a Pan Pan declaration, let alone a Mayday shout...

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. The first of those was challenging them to 100% workload and they were failing. Quite right that nobody wasted time with conversation.

I could never get my head around that bit tbh
At the end of the day, you know you are at height
You know from the seat of your pants that the aircraft hasn't stalled so you push the nose down a little and open the throttles and take stock of the situation.
The captain was supposed to be a highly experienced ex military pilot so I would have thought that his instincts would have taken over, NOT what a few potentially dodgy instrument readings / pitot tube told him 

That saying that the FBW system on the A320 can be overridden ?

Yep, any pilot ought to be able to set a power setting and pitch angle that will make the aircraft basically fly without reference to any other instruments.

I reckon the airbus avionics sent so many confusing signals to the pilots, with every indication based on a number of inputs to the system, that the pilots didn't actually figure out what was wrong. That and the fact that one pilot can work against another without any indication what is going on...

[05omegav6]

Not helped by crew panic... well that and the computer not being able to function when receiving duff sensor information coupled with confused control inputs. The computer on the Air France flight eventually shut itself down after the crew failed to acknowledge any of the alarms... the captain at no point took control.

Total loss of ASI is surely a standard refresher test item?