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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: MikeyBikey on 09 June 2019, 17:35:06

Title: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 09 June 2019, 17:35:06
Hi, newbie here. 
I have a 1972 scimitar GTE that I sprint & hillclimb and its my everyday roadcar.  I keep destroying the Ford Essex engines and Type 5 / 9 gearboxes despite being upgraded, so for more power / reliability I'm fitting a Y32SE from a police car. It has an R25-R28 gearbox.

I'm in a dilemma re the clutch. The existing dual mass flywheel has a 240mm plate that looks pretty tired. I'm loath to replace all the DMF, as I'm not sure it will cope with track use, so I'm thinking of either

1) converting to SMF and keeping the R25-R28 box.
2) converting to a RX8 gearbox. Parts are available.

So for either option I need to source an early SMF flywheel but then its only a 228mm clutch whereas the omega is 240.  But I've also heard the R25-28 box is not that strong and I should go for R30 ??

So just a tad confused...

Any ideas
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: TheBoy on 09 June 2019, 18:05:01
Welcome.

A few of the Irish buy Omegas for drifting, though not sure that puts quite the same strain on the clutch itself.  I've not heard of any reports of the clutch being particularly fragile TBH, and in a lighter car should have a slightly easier time?
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 09 June 2019, 18:30:48
Hi, newbie here. 
I have a 1972 scimitar GTE that I sprint & hillclimb and its my everyday roadcar.  I keep destroying the Ford Essex engines and Type 5 / 9 gearboxes despite being upgraded, so for more power / reliability I'm fitting a Y32SE from a police car. It has an R25-R28 gearbox.

I'm in a dilemma re the clutch. The existing dual mass flywheel has a 240mm plate that looks pretty tired. I'm loath to replace all the DMF, as I'm not sure it will cope with track use, so I'm thinking of either

1) converting to SMF and keeping the R25-R28 box.
2) converting to a RX8 gearbox. Parts are available.

So for either option I need to source an early SMF flywheel but then its only a 228mm clutch whereas the omega is 240.  But I've also heard the R25-28 box is not that strong and I should go for R30 ??

So just a tad confused...

Any ideas

Pretty sure somebody on here put a V6 Omega in a Scimitar.

Much quicker car than with the V6 Essex lump. :)

Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 09 June 2019, 19:29:13
Yes, there's been two that I know of, but they remained road cars. I'm the only one that wants to put the reult on a track, so having a few conundrums re clutch and gearbox. Is the r25-R28 any good. Any has anyone done the SMF conversion on a petrol car ?
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Nick W on 09 June 2019, 20:05:55
I've just got home from making a start on the first exhaust manifold for a mate's MGB/30XE swap. We're using a stock R28, clutch and flywheel, but that is for a roadcar. However a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at least 2/3 the weight of an Omega, so you're going to be putting a lot less strain on a gearbox which isn't known for being weak in its original home. I would be more concerned about the ratios, as getting that wrong makes for a car that drives horribly. You should compare the Scimitar rolling radius and diff ratios to those of the Omega before making a decision.


I'm still trying to convince the owner that he doesn't need to lose the DMF, and that the multi-rams are necessary.



One of the snags with the RX8 box is it's intended for a high revving low-torque engine, so the six closely spaced ratios that still give only a barely overdriven top gear aren't necessarily a good match for a torquey V6 that has a 2500rpm lower redline.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 09 June 2019, 21:07:05
thanks. I've got the five speed left over from a previous project, its got the same gearing as the Type 9. But I take your comments about what best fits.

Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: biggriffin on 09 June 2019, 21:07:57
There is a conversion kit to fit a vectra flywheel to the Omega, serek did have some parts.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Nick W on 09 June 2019, 21:19:15
My post should  read a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at MOST 2/3 the weight of an Omega.


I blame the Punk IPA
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 10 June 2019, 18:32:04
My post should  read a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at MOST 2/3 the weight of an Omega.


I blame the Punk IPA

I reckon about 1000 KG for the MGB and 1700 KG for the Omega. So a considerable saving.

The B series 1800 cc engine was pretty wheezy. Good low speed torque but that was about all.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 10 June 2019, 21:00:10
So I'm discarding the RX8 box conversion and sticking with the R25-R28 box. (I have two anyway, so if one does go pop !!) I'm just sorting out the best SMF conversion. There seems to be three options for a flywheel. Early flat face c20xe. Later pot face c20xe. Vectra conversion. I've contacted techni clutch for advice. Found an old but informative post on mantaclub... The op was asking about C20LET.

""""
For road use, I would suggest a Vauxhall Omega gearbox. The ones from 2.0 and 2.2 omegas will take 350hp with no problems, and over 400 as long as you are not drag racing (this is from experience, not guessed). These are the boxes marked R25-R28 on the casting near the bellhousing end. The box from the later 2.2 dti (diesel, vauxhall 4 cyl not bmw 6 cyl ones) supposedly has the stronger R30 gearkit inside (still marked R25-R28 on the outside), as do the 3.2v6 ones, but we tried a 2.2 diesel box and it exploded (drag racing with 550hp) just the same as the previous 2.0 R25 one did!

Whatever though, these are MUCH stronger than the manta 1800 or ford boxes, and you can pick them up for £50 to £100. As lon as you don't get the 2.5 diesel variant (which used the bmw engine) then all the manual boxes bolt to the LET engine. You'll need a spacer for the clutch slave cylinder setup, but we supply those off the shelf (£45 delivered) and you'll need some sort of speedo drive as these cars drove the speedo off the abs system. We fit a magnetic pickup on the gearbox mount picking up off the gearbox output flange and use it to operate an electronic speedo, either hidden behind the stock dash so it looks standard or not, depending on preference.

Clutch wise, an uprated "fast road" LET unit will be fine to around 300hp, then a paddle version still with stock type uprated cover will go up to 425hp or so. We've used techniclutch and got on fine with them. You can use the stock LET pot type flywheel but they are heavy, We tend to use the flat type earlier xe flywheel, and if you do you will need the friction plate to be a normal LET type and the cover to be a non turbo, early, flat type one. if you call techniclutch and explain they know what you need, we've had a fair few from them. The standard omega release bearing is fine with all the above.

"""""
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 11 June 2019, 12:13:15
http://ttvracing.com/ (http://ttvracing.com/)  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ (https://www.sf-technic.com/about/) who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 11 June 2019, 21:03:29
http://ttvracing.com/ (http://ttvracing.com/)  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ (https://www.sf-technic.com/about/) who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.

thank you. I was aware ttv did a version and I'll also approach PTT
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: omegod on 11 June 2019, 21:53:34
All R25-28s are the same internally apart from a possible fifth gear ratio difference, i've sold many to the Irish lads without issue, The R30 box is like a unicorn and the only difference is the internals are shot peened, never seen one and likely never will.   
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 12 June 2019, 11:38:21
http://ttvracing.com/ (http://ttvracing.com/)  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ (https://www.sf-technic.com/about/) who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.

thank you. I was aware ttv did a version and I'll also approach PTT
If you need any help or advice on exhaust manifolds, that's my day job :) www.btbexhausts.co.uk (http://www.btbexhausts.co.uk)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Omegatoy on 12 June 2019, 21:44:14
pics on here somewhere (Terry Paget) I think? of  a carlton with a v8 around 300bhp,running a r28 box no problems so far and when Mot was passed on monday we celebrated by leaving 40yard twin black streaks on a private road that leads to the mot station,
the box does not complain at treatment like that, it will be doing track days as well :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 13 June 2019, 20:45:16
Great stuff and reassuring re gearbox.
I'v got a couple of pictures of engine and me racing but can't fathom out how to add them  to this blog ?

Thank for the offer re exhausts, although I've got something as an interim. I've managed to swap a spare Salisbury 4HA axle for a set of bespoke open headers. The axle recipient is a fabricator so he welded me up a set. They're ok of the right length, but mild steel  so when I need something more substantial I'll certainly come back.

I actually have two Y32SE's and two gearboxes (like buses ! wait ages then two sets arrive) Is there any benefit in fitting my in situ engine with the G cams from the spare engine so it has 4 ? or is it just urban myth regarding performance increase ?
 
And I approached TTV however those billet flywheels are made to order, I was quoted £360 plus vat and 4 week lead time. Its a bit too strong at the mo (Ive already spent too much) and I've still got clutch and prop to get so...

I have a C20xe early flywheel. I'm going to mock it up on the spare engine / gearbox and see how that goes.

A good scimitar colleague who is also an engineer (and knows what he is doing - unlike me  ;D) has dropped an x30xe in his scimitar. He believes he has the proverbial R30 so I'll insist on pictures and if I get them share them on here




Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: scimmy_man on 14 June 2019, 22:58:28
evening Mikey :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 17 June 2019, 22:04:13
evening Mikey :y

 ;D ;D

I've purchased the flywheel off ebay and precision clutches in somerset have made me up a 228mm clutch plate with a better performance material and 14 teeth.  My sprinting colleagues had recommended them. However the pressure plate is a bit harder to find. No one will commit to a discussion unless i give them a registration number which of course i don't have. Also the company I thought was ok, TechniClutch, has a few terrible reviews , enough to make you steer clear. Luckily i just missed buying from them. Anyways the courier has quoted 2 weeks to deliver the flywheel. I dont want to wait any longer so I thought  >:( >:( and reattached the dual mass flywheel and clutch with the engine, added the gearbox and lowered it it the engine bay.

Only I've dislocated a finger in the progress and now back in the house realised in the melle didn't check if i'd put the clutch plate in the right way round....

onwards and upwards

I'm trying to type this with one hand. !!
 
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 18 June 2019, 01:53:29
Try WA51YNG or OE03EXG. Both factory 3.2 manuals :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 10 July 2019, 07:28:14
Thank you Doc for those numbers but it was the cavalier type reg i was after, to match the early red top flywheel. Thanks anyway.

Slow progress but at least some progress non the less.
I have the early redtop flywheel and it fits a treat to the y32se crank.
I have an upgraded clutch plate from precision clutches.
I'm being careful sourcing the pressure plate, trying to make sure i have the right one. Literally taking the flywheel around to local suppliers to try to match up. All pressure plates so far have been the later pot type flywheel.



 
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 10 July 2019, 07:34:54
And as per previous query. I have two y32se engines. Is it worth taking the G cams out of the spare engine and fitting to the installed engine so its running four g cams ?
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: biggriffin on 10 July 2019, 14:49:55
And as per previous query. I have two y32se engines. Is it worth taking the G cams out of the spare engine and fitting to the installed engine so its running four g cams ?

Yup. :y, makes them run a bit lumpy,
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 11 July 2019, 22:18:46
Well it only bleddy fits.  :o

I've got a c20xe lightweight flywheel, custom 228mm plate for the R28 box, new LUK c20xe pressure plate. The final piece in the jigsaw was moving the concentric slave forward as the 'height' of the new assembly is 20mm less than the 'height' of the existing dual mass flywheel. So I removed the concentric from the box, then removed the bearing and with very gentle pursuasion fitted the traditional taller clutch release bearing to the concentric housing and result !!! its securely on. The new bearing in 18mm taller so takes up the 20mm defecit.

So the new setup is just under 10kg in total weight compared with 16kg for the dual mass. And it a new better quality clutch plate and new  LUK pressure plate and bearing. Total cost £235. The existing dual mass was very tired so I'm chuffed to bits. All this on the back of the y32se
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: dave the builder on 12 July 2019, 08:22:40
"I love it when a plan comes together "
Colonel John “Hannibal” Smith, 1983  :y

"congratulations "
Dave the Builder 2019  :D ;D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 12 July 2019, 18:51:13
"I love it when a plan comes together "
Colonel John “Hannibal” Smith, 1983  :y

"congratulations "
Dave the Builder 2019  :D ;D

thank you

how on earth do i add pictures to this blog ?


Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Andy B on 12 July 2019, 18:56:14
.....

how on earth do i add pictures to this blog ?

Pictures need to be hosted elsewhere  ;)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: TheBoy on 13 July 2019, 10:31:01
Yes, we need piccies :)

Look in the Newbie section for various options for how to host pictures on freebie hosting sites.  You will notice that we have no embedded Ads or subscriptions, which is why we don't have the space or bandwidth to host them on our servers.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Nick W on 13 July 2019, 11:22:16
Here's one in an MGB:


(https://www.dropbox.com/s/samaf7q3y8xzf0p/IMG_20190407_155355.jpg?raw=1)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 July 2019, 20:00:24
Here's one in an MGB:


(https://www.dropbox.com/s/samaf7q3y8xzf0p/IMG_20190407_155355.jpg?raw=1)

Fookin ell.........that should have some pull. :y

Far quicker than an MGC or MGB V8, I imagine. :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: henryd on 15 July 2019, 21:57:37
From memory the BGT V8 only pushed out around 135 bhp so the Vauxhall by will trounce that by a good margin :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Nick W on 15 July 2019, 22:00:35
Here's one in an MGB:



Fookin ell.........that should have some pull. :y

Far quicker than an MGC or MGB V8, I imagine. :y


60hp more than an MGC(and a lot lighter), about 80hp more than a stock V8 MGB and 20hp more than a stock 3.9 EFI Rover.


It's gone in without cutting the car, so it's completely legal and the 4cylinder diff ratio doesn't need changing unlike a Rover swap. Worst bit of the job is the exhaust manifolds.


It ought to go well and make a nice cruiser.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 16 September 2019, 20:04:11
So she's in and running.  At lot of phaffing with the fuel map as she's soo rich.


So did a fair bit of research and investigated the fueeling... NOT.
Had an idea on the way home. Just took 4 values off every cell in the fuel map and went for a drive.

Still overfuelling horribly at the lower rev range & under load but once she shakes the misfire off she just launches her self at the horizon like a rabid rottweiller on steroids who's seen a bunny rabbit 2 miles away.

FM. Scared meself silly. Wheelspinning, having to change gear like a loony cause she's spinning up so fast then hitting the powerband and being pushed back in the seat. Honest I was glad to shut the garage door and walk away for a beer and a lie down. I'm sure I could hear her barking as I walked away... Probably saw a cat on the horizon....





I had posted some google links to pictures but its trying to log in as me
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 16 September 2019, 20:16:57
looks like a nice conversion, although I reckon theres space for another one in front. That would be proper quick.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Andy B on 16 September 2019, 20:20:25
looking forward to pictures  :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 16 September 2019, 21:12:17


this is a library link

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mh3KMNQyeUJ8BU9j6
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: dave the builder on 16 September 2019, 21:26:52
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nFw0ighVVpjJpcnL2aqqH0RcvRTQ-JtQI3EI0uK2Cbagfc1D-5OGWdFY4LJYtRp97KAwjMTrBEHMRrP_JkB1BQDNzFRD0fDgtqLc9BJbFPsQ0pAIcGehWn13L6ZDkxroMjNlfvWRJX4tdLI6az0r6Jb013NqR6qYvzZTQ233NUprbPxy03fJSppQba4RYNOAZVhPbJEPh19Or6l74hu2SLFaB2VEUItUocUdsWUYao8G_oshpiq0ZkF2woqsmkxexF3-r8KFpZwRW9alJpmlMlzx4CPa1xL16SDwPfz6tCtJHjvixC9iiasHC5VFEPJcpkD8RDWjqGVCYgYFVSaU6OY9INgHHlhL8CZhT5-X1kgt-LLxp3qL5plvkofwkhXwKMpYo162Y0Y00NywXFT69hxYI7_papWdTgoQz3sUYNXn-Ro6mY9D6sOvWSjzZtM_01X2dJwDKIq33H4CbOoBS3AIsSMK8wKErdan61NaJba6jAkguNtUYRX7ZS4_xqjWzBzw3Z01h5aGQAZPdfyAKKZi915f9YeFPGG9LpByIKHOrGKc3iAD155jtScWwhZ2lUA-1MmLkdKwm0I0q4g3f5GmAnh33nT5tpdgadHeRiTy0j6qx8oNlwjn_x9TLP1VTbr_R0Sl6SCXDyRndVeumN-U77s82VJRLqOH22Bbp5nMcfx5nXjhSHjzUg5cCiGtVuP0omEfJnlC32uoV2kvVR_GgtV3mNck2--1Uky6AKqxi08X=w837-h625-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i1LbB30UMUYVmbg9Zh48lqbOXE5rqIRmBOXMczPUgwS0bDQwzO5781bzavFVZeqNa8CKaW3Rx3_5vcRSl3iqOSVen1hUORx1ftYtZRfvOk6MidngcP3rY1ZEaWMp0UfdmPYyzzgDk2eJvEOqJ88TklEqKlKp8VZU9lmN7jKjjgB11PCxeED5-QjPFl1ey16IApKMH8KsEGz7sNErUaZsqTSjsfSn0OZ8kuWf_bZUSdjBirtDIdW7ixFDjwhT8K7Xf39MzXFGWy9imf9z2tPj-h2ENBex-JxqOUSRAAF-PF3FvUH8JDZ_U9wJLJ-4jAIRBkDdswbUX67PRsihZ3LT48yzkTyL1nGvEhli3flVTHDrVQW8hJukt8qTIa80g2nDgUw7bAgkzeTpyyPu5FDEWzRZF9BEWZasYYmmUhuEbccV1jDR8PS7CaDvzv0qR2Gv3IOTDGamWAESNEWye_Dq4C0fxWA5x-rEFfPVVLdzMkoKJ3AcArzSYmfGNu5UzBwPCKeBdyySnMWK80tQlcE8A0OcopdyUuCGg5lMgObba3LubJWXj0TG8KEZnPcxBtSF3wSahe_XCrjNUr2OGKZn8fIrGDdNlf3qHj1uLvM6z6IahU-00QZs9nUSEULEbw7rIUb7aCECJVF2BWxmR6agbD2ML6JCcShxG2PA6VzXqJ59A7ZSRp7V9hW6KGP5nEo50QTYIycvwjVCKl5mgf0EsBNwA_zeUvtyCi9SXBFosqKKJgAW=w837-h625-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BA30errxrW4EMYU3dY3NqG5Zx_Fegi_DocCH7_CI6g-TroBVWzM1t-k3SYzHwvHmzT2zFsiEUz2fIykcLcyqPiVBjsePZbxNZjpnEDsDrspCl6DQN4a4tJg-ECMhRpZdkuptRDBgRHnPhnmkbfagGvZoJrMBa8lZk9UdPO2_OgUyIfblRV-gdIgNFc_OhYKPaCD4yt66q2hIaapre4-yrvOFg81bk0n7vdRd4bEfRgyHkQRl9Vh6PFnIl5Tj8Bzjjiz7tCAGZVOWoIp2nHwh4lON0HaUlaZs4q_fGRAK9GqEbSUAJ3GHzbUSTEtuIR_jEknL1zX9NQJG9XCghCEz805gobq2wEGnz7__MeZVO5eI_KbKC2lvMkJ0E22sRufIM0Nk_71uaaBI79otg0xUNhlv8WBlLXtRymmBB1yXewwX8aCnvkUPINrKmw4EILncTgu0sKC7rwiVmEwUZrRWS46GQO5IVk8oTZ9Joa4poDUdreosqP4kBsF5v_K3OMin8Uy2czV8w5s0iQRuZs3rG_BJYYqfE6LOYf48dBZGbx-lyFCdBgfl-BhfQHBBrhnmAcR45w1LXGRmof71q2vMtmBeMTPLadbd9wVNtuUwuJdLQ01G0BIlXfKuJoa2Zi3_DIyOpQV85Pa6ekhQnkRcgfk3RhkS3Hficw8ZUsQZUxVovoRZHkVA9LU6Dh-ZUfnRyEOc6LVUlX3SG8xrPGlttSM-hQs_Avh-PKnHNA6JHrXdI-Ep=w945-h625-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JtixXMFBcWdAbfQ_AV7qcqvlvwtD9ZaUltPST7A9zd3I8loanwHYU1e-n7XPDNtFVJqWHDIQ_NUbH2D2pRpvGIvgU873duENgd5GSmCMRyjs9t_70Kb3zq5bJ9MOBZUqiySh5VFWSbRDU5RewaRAcoGstnq3xX8ZFW7eRSkIhO9lbINdMdE-tdgJ8u80mtu0Mvfh7M2XBLUy7qM8v0hoTVRJT-yYOl-_kWH-tQmEiCgA6GxlGrtI1f8Z9e-rDON5bthzdZDalO0W99fzPQHDPIP_fCQHCBo3Msw6pDbK1J9a-UsWRuZr1qPIP2rLrmbFQoD17iM3LkOPNg4cz5ZsDb8CTfAr2BU7lkHoGoCwVGSqBWBEQFVYAkshXiH9WLVLjmrsbbi2QFGyDnAfwxPtv1zRroVQyhLhffchWoZhkET0nuzSTjb1Afs5SOTjvh2QEsk19V67t7Hj4GSIkUhTag0wgwDPuHSQTTLUlVCtGBU0vdd3TITYTT78dpPfA1rrMZFqSNAJrvxh0q8CH9vB7MPZGs07yf73mObmmhHV7sGLbrXUqorXnzDAXMurM_DfbnC9K0ZnU9DSkw6KyHAfkEcZQ5ceA3_BcNz9N7fqIZj_j7Ib6D_C_1bYLpRtpctN2oOgCDGGjKKAAr6r7NcbM2Eh2iRgBD8vY4pr_8IsaNZbFZ0iUCQh9M2FRCJ0Ey6J8uSeZFRVhYDk71m4GQqGqJ3dqOQeNueqUDkc5TgIx8cqIAb3=w960-h558-no)

looks like great fun  ;D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 16 September 2019, 21:33:51
Thank you dave, how did you do that?

The sprinting pictures were with the essex 3.0 fitted and 150 bhp. Now I've got the y32se I'll have to grow some...
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: dave the builder on 16 September 2019, 21:42:27
Thank you dave, how did you do that?

above the first smiley is an INSERT IMAGE tab, (looks like a picture Frame)
insert the image url between the pair of ][
if you click quote on my post with the pictures, you'll see the text  :y

anyway, fantastic project
I'm from Tamworth originally and have a soft spot for all things Reliant  ;)
keep us posted on progress  :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 08 October 2019, 13:36:02
A very tidy installation, and a great use of a Y32SE.  I hope you sort the mapping and driveability issues, so you can enjoy it without scaring yourself!
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 26 May 2020, 22:15:20
Hi All, apols been a while since an update. Its been an odd year with a couple of attempts to move house being thwarted and a family relocation so this has been a project run in parallel to life at the mo.

What hasn't helped is a lot of teething problems with the drivetrain. And then once it was sorted  I've destroyed the engine, i think. So i'm after some pointers re these engines, what can go wrong etc please.

After a recent reinstallation of gearbox / clutch went for a spin. Parked up at Asda, some odd noises from clutch / gearbox region. Came out of the shop, the engine sort of started then died withmore unnattractive noises. Had to get towed home. After a lot of investigation (mostly on drivetrain !) I did a compression check.

Cylinder 1 - 50psi
Cylinder 2 - 0
Cylinder 3 - 0
Cylinder 4 - 0
Cylinder 5 - 50
Cylinder 6 - 250 psi (yes 250)

Cam belt good (new last year, tensioners good. Cams all good. not snapped etc.
Oil clean, no water loss.

Its out now and gone to the engine man but its frustrating. It was a low mileage engine  :( . I have a spare but with 167000 miles)

So any ideas what might cause that sort of failure ?


(PS the drivetrain issues turned out to be the flywheel not being true . This is now resolved)

cheers
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: henryd on 26 May 2020, 22:30:52
Is valve timing correct?, these engines are tough as nails  and can take a thrashing,all the police forces who used them will testify to that. I personally wouldn't spend much on the busted one,just fit the spare you have and hope you have better luck (167k should have plenty left in it) :y :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 26 May 2020, 22:34:43
Agreed, short of the belt snapping at speed, they'll easily run to 300k+ with nothing more than 10k oil changes and 80k belt changes  :y

Also, new engines were less than £2k from VX, so don't go spending too much on a rebuild ;)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 27 May 2020, 08:05:34
Ok thanks, hopefully the engine man finds out the cause, just don’t want to repeat  ::)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 27 May 2020, 08:23:11
Question re cams. The y32 that’s failed has all four cams giving the same lift, 10mm. Is that normal spec?
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 May 2020, 08:48:28
10.2mm from memory, its at this lift that the curtain area is equal to the port area so optimum.

Did the engine over speed when the clutch let go as that's classic timing jumped and bent valve symptoms?
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 27 May 2020, 18:09:58
10.2mm from memory, its at this lift that the curtain area is equal to the port area so optimum.

Did the engine over speed when the clutch let go as that's classic timing jumped and bent valve symptoms?

Thanks, that’s actually a good diagnosis. Yes the engine had overrevved, but it’s still seemed ok, until I parked up. The aftermarket ecu has a limit of 6500 but I’m sure was going higher. So if it jumped a tooth on the crank, that would throw things out a lot. And explain why every cylinder is b*ggered. 
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 27 May 2020, 18:30:17
Might be worth bunging a decent pair of heads back on it and reinstalling it, by the sound of things.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 05 June 2020, 16:56:09
Hi, engine man has checked the cam belt and removed the heads. Yes the belt had jumped on the crank, bending all the inlet valves. Pistons are good. He's happy to fit new valves & gaskets. Do I need new head bolts with these engines Y32SE. He's already finished for the day and I'm hoping to buy the stuff online over the weekend.

cheers
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 05 June 2020, 22:06:24
Hi, engine man has checked the cam belt and removed the heads. Yes the belt had jumped on the crank, bending all the inlet valves. Pistons are good. He's happy to fit new valves & gaskets. Do I need new head bolts with these engines Y32SE. He's already finished for the day and I'm hoping to buy the stuff online over the weekend.

cheers

For the little they cost, not using new head bolts would be a false economy :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 June 2020, 08:37:41
You absolutely MUST use new head bolts, alloy head and torqued to their elastic point and slightly beyond  :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: annihilator on 08 June 2020, 17:24:11
One of the Irish guys I know says they prefer the x30xe when doing conversions for the very same reason that the 3.2's tend to over rev.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Nick W on 09 June 2020, 11:24:17
One of the Irish guys I know says they prefer the x30xe when doing conversions for the very same reason that the 3.2's tend to over rev.


what does that actually mean? ???
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 23 June 2020, 23:03:44
Valve bounce/float due to inadequate spring design, then lifters pump up and valves meet pistons.  Just a guess, maybe the G cams are
 bit too much for the valve gear. Perhaps the 3.0 has more piston to valve clearance so they get away with it.  3.2 has forged crank so maybe the bottom end is better than the top. All development of that era of engine was focused on emissions not outright power.  Only the 2litre C20XE was ever designed (by Cosworth) with motorsport potential in mind. 
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 24 June 2020, 10:19:45
The only difference between the 3.0 and 3.2 that is significant for retro fitting is the engine management, its much easier to keep the ECU setup from a 3.0 than it is a 3.2.

I have said many times that the optimum setup using off the shelf bits is a 3.2 bottom end and exhaust manifolds ported 2.5/2.6 heads, 3.2 inlet setup and 3.0 engine management  :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 24 June 2020, 10:43:10
There's nothing physically preventing the 3.0 wiring/sensors/ecu from being used on the 3.2 block and vice versa ;)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 24 June 2020, 21:53:33
There's nothing physically preventing the 3.0 wiring/sensors/ecu from being used on the 3.2 block and vice versa ;)
Very interesting, I didn't think anyone could do anything mapping wise with any of those old ecus anymore. I intend to use a standalone management system when the track toy comes together.  The hardware is cheaper than it used to be, it's the calibration time on  rolling road which costs.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 June 2020, 07:11:24
There's nothing physically preventing the 3.0 wiring/sensors/ecu from being used on the 3.2 block and vice versa ;)
Very interesting, I didn't think anyone could do anything mapping wise with any of those old ecus anymore. I intend to use a standalone management system when the track toy comes together.  The hardware is cheaper than it used to be, it's the calibration time on  rolling road which costs.

Get yourself a wideband lambda sensor and do it on the road. :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 27 June 2020, 09:03:29
There's nothing physically preventing the 3.0 wiring/sensors/ecu from being used on the 3.2 block and vice versa ;)
Very interesting, I didn't think anyone could do anything mapping wise with any of those old ecus anymore. I intend to use a standalone management system when the track toy comes together.  The hardware is cheaper than it used to be, it's the calibration time on  rolling road which costs.

Get yourself a wideband lambda sensor and do it on the road. :y
Yes, that would be better, and some management systems now have a degree of self learning from a closed loop lambda. I wish I'd worked harder at school, learning this stuff in my 50s is much harder and of limited use in the electrified world we are heading towards.  Still fun though!
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 June 2020, 21:35:21
There's nothing physically preventing the 3.0 wiring/sensors/ecu from being used on the 3.2 block and vice versa ;)
Very interesting, I didn't think anyone could do anything mapping wise with any of those old ecus anymore. I intend to use a standalone management system when the track toy comes together.  The hardware is cheaper than it used to be, it's the calibration time on  rolling road which costs.

Get yourself a wideband lambda sensor and do it on the road. :y
Yes, that would be better, and some management systems now have a degree of self learning from a closed loop lambda. I wish I'd worked harder at school, learning this stuff in my 50s is much harder and of limited use in the electrified world we are heading towards.  Still fun though!
I swapped from twin DCOEs to a Megasquirt system on my Westfield and within an afternoon I had it running better than it ever did on carbs and drinking a third less fuel. All with just a wideband lambda sensor and a laptop on the passenger seat. :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 11 July 2020, 21:31:42
10.2mm from memory, its at this lift that the curtain area is equal to the port area so optimum.

Did the engine over speed when the clutch let go as that's classic timing jumped and bent valve symptoms?

Hi all, engine fixed.
 
All inlet valves were bent, but pistons etc all ok. Just very light kisses in the carbon. It looked Funny though, exactly the same pattern on each piston.

So new valves, gaskets, timing belt etc etc. All ready to go back in.

Mark, you might have nailed it here, we’ve been scratching our heads trying to work out how she overrevved, but of course, if the clutch had let go under heavy acceleration , the engine would have deff buzzed.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 11 July 2020, 21:33:17
The only difference between the 3.0 and 3.2 that is significant for retro fitting is the engine management, its much easier to keep the ECU setup from a 3.0 than it is a 3.2.

I have said many times that the optimum setup using off the shelf bits is a 3.2 bottom end and exhaust manifolds ported 2.5/2.6 heads, 3.2 inlet setup and 3.0 engine management  :y

What’s so special about the 2.5 2.6 heads :)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 July 2020, 14:09:43
The only difference between the 3.0 and 3.2 that is significant for retro fitting is the engine management, its much easier to keep the ECU setup from a 3.0 than it is a 3.2.

I have said many times that the optimum setup using off the shelf bits is a 3.2 bottom end and exhaust manifolds ported 2.5/2.6 heads, 3.2 inlet setup and 3.0 engine management  :y

What’s so special about the 2.5 2.6 heads :)

Smaller combustion chambers which will raise the compression ratio. :y

Still wondering how it over-revved when the ECU includes a rev limiter. :-\
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 July 2020, 14:38:44
Finding first instead of fifth from fourth above motorway speeds will do it :D

Apparently the engine is the weak link in the drivetrain...
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 13 July 2020, 09:46:21
The only difference between the 3.0 and 3.2 that is significant for retro fitting is the engine management, its much easier to keep the ECU setup from a 3.0 than it is a 3.2.

I have said many times that the optimum setup using off the shelf bits is a 3.2 bottom end and exhaust manifolds ported 2.5/2.6 heads, 3.2 inlet setup and 3.0 engine management  :y
What can be done with 3.0 engine management that can't be done with 3.2? I didn't think either were easily re-mappable these days? 
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 July 2020, 09:59:49
2.5/3.0 can be readily chipped, 3.2 less so.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 13 July 2020, 10:09:48
Although I believe the 3.2 is remapable.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 July 2020, 10:13:31
Although I believe the 3.2 is remapable.
Zirk is the person to ask for this, but the results can be mixed iirc :-\

Certainly, MSD and Irmscher both did off the shelf chips for the 2.5/3.0.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Andy B on 13 July 2020, 10:20:39
Finding first instead of fifth from fourth above motorway speeds will do it :D

...

I did that is a hired Sierra many many moons ago ..... but I was looking for 3rd  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 July 2020, 10:32:07
One of my plod Omegas had a full service history, including defect reports and job cards 8)

Defect: Mid pursuit on A34, mis selected 1st from 4th under hard acceleration. Loud bang and loss of drive. Lots of smoke. Won't restart.

Jobcard confirmed total engine destruction, new engine and clutch fitted (with paperwork), roadtested and returned to service.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Andy B on 13 July 2020, 13:08:25
....
Defect: Mid pursuit on A34, mis selected 1st from 4th under hard acceleration. Loud bang and loss of drive. Lots of smoke. Won't restart.

 .....

so much for being a 'professional' driver .....  ::)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 July 2020, 13:23:04
The manual Omega will take alot of abuse, but try rushing a gear change at your peril.  :D

Should be: Clutch down. Move lever. Clutch up.

But if you try: Clutchmovedownclutchleverup. It comes out of gear but hits a wall. Forceful wiggling will eventually get it somewhere, but unless you put the clutch back down, it probably won't end well :D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 13 July 2020, 13:25:06
....
Defect: Mid pursuit on A34, mis selected 1st from 4th under hard acceleration. Loud bang and loss of drive. Lots of smoke. Won't restart.

 .....

so much for being a 'professional' driver .....  ::)
Probably just wanted a new engine... :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 July 2020, 13:28:20
....
Defect: Mid pursuit on A34, mis selected 1st from 4th under hard acceleration. Loud bang and loss of drive. Lots of smoke. Won't restart.

 .....

so much for being a 'professional' driver .....  ::)
Probably just wanted a new engine... :y
It got one.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 13 July 2020, 13:30:57
Mission accomplished then :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 29 September 2021, 10:57:40
Hi All. The y32se conversion is epic. I sprint and drag race very effectively. How do I get pictures added? Here. Do I need to host elsewhere and just post links ?
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: STEMO on 29 September 2021, 11:10:21
Hi All. The y32se conversion is epic. I sprint and drag race very effectively. How do I get pictures added? Here. Do I need to host elsewhere and just post links ?
Hi Mikey. Yes, you need to find a host for your pics, I use this one

https://imgbb.com/
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Nick W on 29 September 2021, 18:43:28
Hi All. The y32se conversion is epic. I sprint and drag race very effectively. How do I get pictures added? Here. Do I need to host elsewhere and just post links ?


My friend's x30 engined MGB is an excellent road car, and will soon be further improved with the taller diff from a V8
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 06 October 2021, 21:09:41
Hmm,

Ive uploaded picture to imgbb but struggling to get them to load or even see them ? and hints / tips gratefully received.  :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 06 October 2021, 21:14:20
Engine Bay
(https://i.ibb.co/pZyKvtr/Engine-Bay.jpg)

Car
<img src="https://i.ibb.co/5czZkbg/IMG-20210629-WA0000.jpg" alt="IMG-20210629-WA0000" border="0">

(https://i.ibb.co/5czZkbg/IMG-20210629-WA0000.jpg)





and what I get up to
(https://i.ibb.co/Lgjj57v/MTB-trying-quite-hard.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/HpLGW8v/Perranporth-0918.jpg)


drag race against 542bhp jag










Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 06 October 2021, 21:31:13
I do sprints, hillclimbs, track days and more recently run what you brung drag racing.

This is against the supercharged jag.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6rUVvMswmjA&feature=youtu.be

This is not my vid, someone sent it.  :)

Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: STEMO on 06 October 2021, 21:39:25
(https://i.ibb.co/FVQv5pN/D93-C69-C1-8-BA4-4-C09-9-C47-B4813-B975536.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SrkTtSW)
(https://i.ibb.co/HdRh2tq/89-AA80-B5-BEBF-49-AF-A29-B-CBA40101341-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4dC1f8p)
(https://i.ibb.co/KKhCMW3/6578-FB8-B-C2-C9-499-C-AE8-B-1-A2-D8-E85537-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CP8xkQT)
(https://i.ibb.co/80S095w/995-D98-FC-2-AC9-4-A0-C-A3-C6-E7-E565-A4-F38-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4757pTL)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 06 October 2021, 21:53:28
Thank you Stemo.

How did you do that ? Sort the images out so they displayed correctly ?
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: henryd on 06 October 2021, 21:54:23
Very tidy engine bay. :y :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: STEMO on 06 October 2021, 21:56:20
Thank you Stemo.

How did you do that ? Sort the images out so they displayed correctly ?
You do the car, I'll do the images  ;D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 06 October 2021, 22:06:05
Thank you Stemo.

How did you do that ? Sort the images out so they displayed correctly ?
You do the car, I'll do the images  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 06 October 2021, 22:09:25
I wonder if it would perform better or worse without the multirams, and if that is part of the issue  :-\

Cool car nevertheless  8)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 06 October 2021, 22:12:59
I wonder if it would perform better or worse without the multirams, and if that is part of the issue  :-\

Cool car nevertheless  8)

Thank you Doctor. I don't have multirams, thinking i knew better, ripped it all out and but on the K&N. But now I'm thinking ... GM spent a load of money developing it, must have been a reason ?

Are they any good.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 06 October 2021, 22:14:17
Answered in the other thread ;)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 06 October 2021, 22:24:45
Answered in the other thread ;)

Yes thank you. Apols moderator is it worth combining threads somehow. I'd like to continue this informed debate but accidentally set two hares running !!

So Doc, the set up I have goes very well. I'm just trying to get any remaining torques and horses available (Within reason. )

The Dual mass flywheel has been replaced with the Red Top solid one and a helix pressure plate so its spins up well.

I run LPG for every day and sprint / race on petrol

I have an aftermarket dual fuel ECU fully mapable . Literally flick a switch between the two.

Im looking at turbos, high lift cams or X25XE heads (increased compression apparantly ) 

I run the R28 5 speed box :(
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 06 October 2021, 22:29:07
The box is OK it will take some abuse, but doesn't take kindly to being ripped from gear to gear...

To give you an idea, standard police manual 3.2s are 7 seconds 0-60 and top out at 150 (in Mexico)  :D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 06 October 2021, 22:35:29
Could this be made to fit, at a price :-\

https://zzperformance.com/products/l36-supercharger-kit?variant=12623148974191
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 07 October 2021, 08:13:35
A bit out of my budget !  I have a spent a fair bit on the conversion and associated stuff (in steps) so I don't think I'll get away with that one without wifey noticing !!

Are the multirams driven by the ecu. I noticed the one on the back has a two pin connector. Unfortunantly other  than that one, I don't think I've got any other bits of the ram setup ?

Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 07 October 2021, 09:44:47
The mechanism is basically the same for both, and yes, it's run by the ecu :y
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 31 May 2022, 08:21:33
Morning all, hope you are all well.

The car / conversion is running incredibly well. The engine is still pretty much standard apart from K&N filter and three branch manifolds. Runs on lpg all the time but I do have a petrol backup. So two tanks, fuel lines, sets of injectors etc. Switchover is by a single switch on the dash and is pretty seramless.

As you all have noticed LPG is getting problematic, so ive put on a 90L lpg tank to help keep average distances between fillups decent.

Do anything from 50 miles a week to 700 miles a week, regularly, depending on visiting family or attending track days etc.

Anyways finally had a rolling road session last week so managed to get 240bhp running on lpg and a pretty sensible tune, so i can cruise around town easily as well as race when need be. (Car weighs 1200kg with me in it)

Still thinking about engine mods !

still thinking about buying some 2.5 heads , porting them etc. But might be a lot of work. Not even sure if they'd fit.  Will keep you posted. :) :)



Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: 456lbft on 01 June 2022, 18:17:59
CNC Heads offer off the shelf ported heads for VX V6, https://www.cncheads.co.uk/vauxhall/vauxhall-vectra-3-2/ (https://www.cncheads.co.uk/vauxhall/vauxhall-vectra-3-2/)
Might save a lot of experimentation.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 28 September 2023, 15:54:00
CNC Heads offer off the shelf ported heads for VX V6, https://www.cncheads.co.uk/vauxhall/vauxhall-vectra-3-2/ (https://www.cncheads.co.uk/vauxhall/vauxhall-vectra-3-2/)
Might save a lot of experimentation.

Thank you.


After a lot of use, approx 15000 miles year , extremely hard treatment doing track days, drag racing, donuts and burns outs  I can confidently say the engine is epic. It is still completely standard, late 3.2 albeit with 3 into 1 headers and lpg conversion. I have however literally just got my hands on a set on 2.5 heads  so I might try this. Thank for the link.

On a different tack I have gotten through two 5 speed manual gearboxes. Both have failed on selecting reverse. I have just fitted a third and its completely rubbish. Sold to me in good faith, refund offered however its in situ and a PITA to swap. I'm going to gee if I can get one of them rebuilt, goes to the Falmouth gearbox centre tomorrow.
 
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 28 September 2023, 16:35:15
Just after some advice please.
I have two 5 speed gearboxes that bolt onto the back of my 3.2.  Both broken. I understand both came off police cars.
As in I bought a broken police car, and took the gearbox / engine from it. The other gearbox I've been told by the seller Lozzz,  came from a police car. (lozzz from this forum who also did a omega V6 conversion into a scimitar and a good friend,

Both my broken gearboxes say R25-R28
on the casting there are some numbers stamped in the case
HP 116 02A
1529698

and
GL 136 00B
1480203

Both have a fifth gear ratio of 4 revolutions on the input shaft equates to three revolutions on the output shaft. I'll double check this to get it exactly.

Do any of the stamped number help me to identify exactly the box.

Does anyone know of any spares , eg bearings, that I  can get hold of. (Lozzz also has a noisy gearbox  )

cheers y'all
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 28 September 2023, 17:25:46
I wasn't exactly nice to my car, also ex plod, but that was still on its original gearbox well past 250k.

If you keep blowing up gearboxes, then you need a better gearbox, because it sounds like the R25/R28  isn't suitable.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 28 September 2023, 17:35:41
yes  ::)

I have investigated

the ZF 8HP. Used prolifically by loads of car manufacturers, virtually indestructible, but needs an ecu controller costing in the region £2k. (After purchase of box, adaptor plate etc.) So probably £2500 min. 

Nissan 350Z - Cd009. Currently rare, very desirable by engine swappers and costing min £1800 plus adaptor plate etc. (later one is the one, earlier one has synchro problems) so again into £2k.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Nick W on 28 September 2023, 17:48:30
I wasn't exactly nice to my car, also ex plod, but that was still on its original gearbox well past 250k.

If you keep blowing up gearboxes, then you need a better gearbox, because it sounds like the R25/R28  isn't suitable.


I'm curious how he got them to fail selecting reverse ??? ???
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 28 September 2023, 18:25:42
I wasn't exactly nice to my car, also ex plod, but that was still on its original gearbox well past 250k.

If you keep blowing up gearboxes, then you need a better gearbox, because it sounds like the R25/R28  isn't suitable.


I'm curious how he got them to fail selecting reverse ??? ???
J turns and poor clutch timing?

My '03 car with total plod history got dropped to 2nd instead of 4th mid pursuit as it was accelerating though 120+. This blew the engine. New engine got bolted to the original box and put back into service. The box is pretty durable, but doesn't respond well to quick shifting... it needs a moment to keep up between changes. One reason why it's considered clunky.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 28 September 2023, 18:54:51
I do change gear quickly when on track etc. I have watched videos of others who manage to change smoothly , but I'm always in a bleddy hurry.  :-\
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Viral_Jim on 28 September 2023, 19:23:40
Have you considered something from the JLR stable? Specifically Getrag 221 5 speeder or the ZF S6-53 6  speeder? Both fitted to S-type jags. The former to the 3.0 V6 and the latter to the 2.7d. The 6 speeder is extremely hardy and is used in manual swapped 4.2 super charged v8s.

The Getrag is less hardy, but in its normal home it's mated to the Jag V6 which has both more power and torque than the 3.2 so it should last unless you're very ham fisted  ;)

Neither is a bolt up solution, but seeing as you considered a ZF 8 speed, I'm guessing that's not your main concern.  ;D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Keith ABS on 28 September 2023, 19:28:14
 I have an R28 from a Carlton/Senator for sale
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 28 September 2023, 19:41:16
I have an R28 from a Carlton/Senator for sale
If you were going to scrap it anyways... >:D
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Keith ABS on 29 September 2023, 19:07:51
I have an R28 from a Carlton/Senator for sale
If you were going to scrap it anyways... >:D

Part of a full minibus full of parts I collected for ABS
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 29 September 2023, 20:03:48
That's alright then.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 24 October 2023, 11:22:17
So the first R28 gearbox we've pulled apart has buggered synchro's on Reverse and 5th.  Bearings are ok, but if we need to replace, they're not currently listed anywhere.... Might be able to find alternatives. Oil seals would be required as well....

I was trying to avoid changing gearboxes as a lot of effort was put into the Red top flywheel, clutch and concentric slave set up to get it working correctly.

But at the mo the gearbox in the car is properly dreadful and i've got two broken ones. It might be a case of trying to build One from the Three.

regards
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: Viral_Jim on 24 October 2023, 12:41:49
If you need to replace the bearings at any point. Try these guys, they've always been extremely helpful, even with really obscure stuff like phosphor bronze bushings for a 1980's cement mixer  ;D

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.html?currency=USD&gclid=CjwKCAjw1t2pBhAFEiwA_-A-NJLvtNhETJOzXRdEJLo3tixQshIN_d8w0etE27EfZ7qqmQZeqoSqhxoCRUwQAvD_BwE (https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.html?currency=USD&gclid=CjwKCAjw1t2pBhAFEiwA_-A-NJLvtNhETJOzXRdEJLo3tixQshIN_d8w0etE27EfZ7qqmQZeqoSqhxoCRUwQAvD_BwE)
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 24 October 2023, 16:45:19
If you need to replace the bearings at any point. Try these guys, they've always been extremely helpful, even with really obscure stuff like phosphor bronze bushings for a 1980's cement mixer  ;D

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.html?currency=USD&gclid=CjwKCAjw1t2pBhAFEiwA_-A-NJLvtNhETJOzXRdEJLo3tixQshIN_d8w0etE27EfZ7qqmQZeqoSqhxoCRUwQAvD_BwE (https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.html?currency=USD&gclid=CjwKCAjw1t2pBhAFEiwA_-A-NJLvtNhETJOzXRdEJLo3tixQshIN_d8w0etE27EfZ7qqmQZeqoSqhxoCRUwQAvD_BwE)

Brilliant, and thank you
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 24 October 2023, 17:08:40
So I have been previously told the GM R25-R28 gearbox is a Getrag 240 box and so is the Ford MT75 but in a different casing. The casings certainly look similar, but two gearboxes companies have today told me they don't think they are the same ?

Does anyone on here have a definitive answer please ?

regards
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 26 October 2023, 08:06:00
So I have been previously told the GM R25-R28 gearbox is a Getrag 240 box and so is the Ford MT75 but in a different casing. The casings certainly look similar, but two gearboxes companies have today told me they don't think they are the same ?

Does anyone on here have a definitive answer please ?

regards

And a couple of questions.
Do other Omega gear boxes fit the V6. ie is the bellhousing bolt stud pattern similar on any others.
Are any of the synchros on say other omega gearboxes match the R25-28. My gearbox man thinks he can build a box up from bits. Just syncros are the issue. I need synchros on reverse and 5th. I potentially have a spare but not sure. Just wanted to ty to maybe get another or suitable spares.
Title: Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
Post by: MikeyBikey on 26 October 2023, 09:18:26
Basically the petrol derivatives appear to have a consistent bellhousing bolt pattern 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.5, 2.6, 3.0 and 3.2