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[Lizzie Zoom]

Do not expect it to be all one way.  This all is a very controversial subject, which touches on the lives of many people, thus the UK Hate Crime Laws that are in place, which I am duty bound by the police to advise on and protect. The expressions on this thread have the potential to cause serious offence to more individuals than the authors of them obviously, from the comments made, understand.

I think the vast majority of people would rather that Police concentrate on real crimes like burglary, robbery, assault etc than worrying about whether Uncle STEMO has offended Lord Opti! 

You should advise the Police about that Lizzie, because rightly or wrongly there is a public perception that the Police are allocating huge resources to so called hate crimes at the expense of investigating and solving proper crime! 

[/highlight]

Absolutely right Sir Tigger

The police would love to allocate all their resources to fighting "real" crime as some see it.  But, guess what, many cases they have to deal with involve mental health issues, of many types, brought about by various factors, but a prime one is intolerance and abuse that many receive at a crisis point in their lives, when they are trying to establish their identity and sexual orientation, or just trying to live without fear, but then hear, or read, comments that cause them much depression as MAY have already happened with this thread. The police have to pick up the pieces of people being physically attacked, or severely insulted in the streets by individuals who think they have a right to enforce their "Normal" views on others.

Expressing our right to free speech, as apparent in this thread, carries certain obligations and restrictions to ensure others, that include all age groups within our society, are not subjected to hatred that affects them to the extent they want to take their life as they feel their families, or society society, does not understand them and they cannot receive the help they require to guide them with impartiality and within UK law.  Much police time is taken up by dealing with the fall out of those case, that WE as a so called free liberal society have a responsibility for.  People being driven to death by bigotry and pure ignorance is a VERY REAL crime.

If you all do object to that approach, then vote for far right political parties, that would make the rights of all individuals, instead of the state and certain elites, obsolete, which would eventually impact on all of us as history has demonstrated. Stand by and do nothing, and they will eventually come for you who does not conform to their narrow view points.

[STEMO]

What an absolute load of twaddle 

[Lizzie Zoom]

What an absolute load of twaddle 

Yes, to some, to others spot on!!

We all have our opinions

I am sure you started this thread to get us all going!  You rascal, you!

[redelitev6]

On a lighter note
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc

[BazaJT]

All these gay pride marchers want to be accepted and treated as equals in society which is fair enough and as it should be,but in holding all these marches they're marking themselves out as "different"so surely they're defeating their own object?After all these marches etc. just seem to polarise opinions/attitudes even more. All this gender neutrality or non-gender specific business is a load of nonsense to me.

[Lizzie Zoom]

All these gay pride marchers want to be accepted and treated as equals in society which is fair enough and as it should be,but in holding all these marches they're marking themselves out as "different"so surely they're defeating their own object?After all these marches etc. just seem to polarise opinions/attitudes even more. All this gender neutrality or non-gender specific business is a load of nonsense to me.

Funnily enough I agree with that as I believe these groups of people are over cooking it and causing the opposite of what they are trying to achieve- equality.

For me it is like all the political marches, going back to the CND ones of our past, with them over cooking their message and seemingly forcing us all to adopt their message and vote for this or that, and take certain courses of action. Also the same as those to do with the environment recently, it is counter-productive and makes so many people do the opposite and want raise the strength of their objections and resistance, as witnessed on this thread.

All groups have got to learn to keep it calm and respectful, but the media have other ideas on that as well.  The trouble is, on the issue of political groups in particular, those that shout the loudest get noticed, because as human beings we are flawed and so often can only be disturbed from our 'sleep' by those displaying and using radical actions.  Anyone else been watching Rise of the Nazis  on BBC2?   

[Raeturbo]

I agree with Baz that’s the point I was trying to make.

[STEMO]

All these gay pride marchers want to be accepted and treated as equals in society which is fair enough and as it should be,but in holding all these marches they're marking themselves out as "different"so surely they're defeating their own object?After all these marches etc. just seem to polarise opinions/attitudes even more. All this gender neutrality or non-gender specific business is a load of nonsense to me.

Funnily enough I agree with that as I believe these groups of people are over cooking it and causing the opposite of what they are trying to achieve- equality.

For me it is like all the political marches, going back to the CND ones of our past, with them over cooking their message and seemingly forcing us all to adopt their message and vote for this or that, and take certain courses of action. Also the same as those to do with the environment recently, it is counter-productive and makes so many people do the opposite and want raise the strength of their objections and resistance, as witnessed on this thread.

All groups have got to learn to keep it calm and respectful, but the media have other ideas on that as well.  The trouble is, on the issue of political groups in particular, those that shout the loudest get noticed, because as human beings we are flawed and so often can only be disturbed from our 'sleep' by those displaying and using radical actions.  Anyone else been watching Rise of the Nazis  on BBC2?   

There's an echo in here 

[Doctor Gollum]

https://www.southparkstudios.co.uk/clips/149906/hitler-is-cool

Obviously being South Park, it is probably NWS...

(I would have done the fancy hidden link thing, but figured it better to be clear... More of a visual gag anyway 

Cartman does remind me of someone... https://youtu.be/4rHuinnfVJo 

[Lizzie Zoom]

I agree with Baz that’s the point I was trying to make.

Yes, but it was the other comments you made that put it into a different context, one of hate towards these groups.  If moderation is shown by ALL sides, then there is not a problem, and these groups in particular will not feel the need to kick back so hard, and protest so loudly and "in your face" as some put it, fighting (that is what it is) to be recognised as equals in a fair society (fat chance here!!). Your problem will then be resolved

[Lizzie Zoom]

https://www.southparkstudios.co.uk/clips/149906/hitler-is-cool

Obviously being South Park, it is probably NWS...

(I would have done the fancy hidden link thing, but figured it better to be clear... More of a visual gag anyway 

Cartman does remind me of someone... https://youtu.be/4rHuinnfVJo 

They have nothing on Hitler Youth as they would shoot the teacher, the driver, etc, etc, in a society that allowed it to happen:D

[YZ250]

........which I am duty bound by the police to advise on and protect.........

(Bear with me, I am on the right thread)   

Having been run ragged by my elderly disabled parents for the past two years, dealing with their end of life carers etc, I was at the end of my tether both physically and emotionally. I had just got to the stage where I thought it would be easier to end my own life to escape the daily torture when I read the above comment.
It made me laugh    and snapped me out of ending it. I should be alright for a couple of weeks with this to amuse me.    Please keep the gags coming Lizzie, you may just save my life. 

Anyway, back on topic, which has strayed from racism to homophobic accusations somehow. 

[Viral_Jim]

Yes indeed Ron, they should treat us with the same respect and patience as we are expected to treat them. Keep it to theirselves Ffs I find it abhorrent and I don’t like my grandchildren  growing up thinking sex between same sexes is normal ITS NOT!

You can't claim to respect a group and then demand they conduct their lifestyles only in private / spaces away from where you happen to be. Same-sex sexual relations are part of nature, like it or lump it, they are an observable phenomenon, in birds, marine and land-based mammals, and yes, shockingly, humans too. Just because "we" have had a couple of thousand years of religious doctrine rammed down our throats that its not the done thing doesn't make it so, along with most other things written in fiction. 

I see no reason why those who identify as LGBTQ+ wouldn't want to continue marching, protesting etc. After all, they don't receive equal treatment, either under UK law or in practice 'out in the real world'. As I'm sure Lizzie can attest; throughout history, those who have sat quietly by, waiting for rights to be given to them tend to be waiting a very very long time.  That said, the views on the matter expressed here are the classic anti-oppression catch-22: you don't protest, you're sitting idly by so must be happy with your lot/are too lazy to fight for what you believe; get out on the streets, your making a nuisance/spectacle of yourself. 

Also, on the point of what "Normal" people think, statistical data for the last 30yrs shows clearly that we now live in a society where the majority of people in the UK now support gay marriage and see nothing at all wrong with same sex relationships (11% 1981, 68% 2017). The vast majority also do not identify as prejudiced against trans people. Probably unsurprisingly
;, belief that same sex relationships are wrong tends to be much higher in 'white british' church goers (thankfully a group that is in itself in decline), black and asian communities - again linked with religion.

So in summary, far from the "Normal" most on this thread claim to be, they're actually the 'noisy minority' they choose to belittle.   

[Viral_Jim]

Anyway, back on topic, which has strayed from racism to homophobic accusations somehow. 

Page 1, post 5. About the average length of time an OOF post stays on track IME.

[STEMO]

Yes indeed Ron, they should treat us with the same respect and patience as we are expected to treat them. Keep it to theirselves Ffs I find it abhorrent and I don’t like my grandchildren  growing up thinking sex between same sexes is normal ITS NOT!

You can't claim to respect a group and then demand they conduct their lifestyles only in private / spaces away from where you happen to be. Same-sex sexual relations are part of nature, like it or lump it, they are an observable phenomenon, in birds, marine and land-based mammals, and yes, shockingly, humans too. Just because "we" have had a couple of thousand years of religious doctrine rammed down our throats that its not the done thing doesn't make it so, along with most other things written in fiction. 

I see no reason why those who identify as LGBTQ+ wouldn't want to continue marching, protesting etc. After all, they don't receive equal treatment, either under UK law or in practice 'out in the real world'. As I'm sure Lizzie can attest; throughout history, those who have sat quietly by, waiting for rights to be given to them tend to be waiting a very very long time.  That said, the views on the matter expressed here are the classic anti-oppression catch-22: you don't protest, you're sitting idly by so must be happy with your lot/are too lazy to fight for what you believe; get out on the streets, your making a nuisance/spectacle of yourself. 

Also, on the point of what "Normal" people think, statistical data for the last 30yrs shows clearly that we now live in a society where the majority of people in the UK now support gay marriage and see nothing at all wrong with same sex relationships (11% 1981, 68% 2017). The vast majority also do not identify as prejudiced against trans people. Probably unsurprisingly
;, belief that same sex relationships are wrong tends to be much higher in 'white british' church goers (thankfully a group that is in itself in decline), black and asian communities - again linked with religion.

So in summary, far from the "Normal" most on this thread claim to be, they're actually the 'noisy minority' they choose to belittle.   

I notice you back up your same sex relationship with figures, but none for trans people. I disagree completely with that assertion, and invite you to substantiate it.