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[aaronjb]

Got a shock in the bathroom today .. it was put in by the previous owners when the extension was built in 2012, and today we walked in on this:





That's a pair of 600x300 tiles off the top of the wall, smashed a hole in the floor tile and took a chunk out of the basin.. luckily it missed shattering the shower!

Sigh.

[STEMO]

You need to get that tile on the left of the pic down. By the look of the bottom joint, it's next.

[Viral_Jim]

Yikes!

Sadly I'd say you're looking at taking all the wall.tiles down. Dobs like that are no way to put up tiles. Lucky no-one was under it! Fortunately they look like standard B&Q tiles so cutting out and replacing the floor tiles isn't the end of the world.

[STEMO]

Home insurance should cover that, minus excess.

[Viral_Jim]

Good point. Didn't think of that.

[STEMO]

Yikes!

Sadly I'd say you're looking at taking all the wall.tiles down. Dobs like that are no way to put up tiles. Lucky no-one was under it! Fortunately they look like standard B&Q tiles so cutting out and replacing the floor tiles isn't the end of the world.

No. The tile adhesive should be spread with a trowel, but you'd be surprised how many people do it like Aaron's.

[dave the builder]

Not MY work
looks very DIY
get a bathroom cabinet  or mirror for the wall and a mat for the floor 
not worth making a claim on insurance  IMHO

[STEMO]

Not MY work
looks very DIY
get a bathroom cabinet  or mirror for the wall and a mat for the floor 
not worth making a claim on insurance  IMHO

Of course it's worth making a claim, that's what insurance is for. Any decent builder is gonna need ten grand to sort that lot out. 

[Viral_Jim]

Not MY work
looks very DIY

Hmm. Our last house "had only ever been looked after by local professionals" complete with a big file of receipts to prove it.

I found bits of 1" floorboard used as 'door lintels', floor joists 'notched' to take a 110mm soil pipe and beautiful sash windows that were butchered with filler, caulk & gobs of gloss paint.

That combined with the 'young people, big house' tax that seemed to be added to 90% of quotes we  received (£5k to skim a 20' x 25' ceiling being a real highlight   ) means my cynicism of building professionals now knows almost no bounds.

Present company excepted naturally 

[Shackeng]

Not MY work
looks very DIY
get a bathroom cabinet  or mirror for the wall and a mat for the floor 
not worth making a claim on insurance  IMHO

That's unkind, most people doing their own house take care! I have done 12 houses, mostly rentals, over the last few years and would not dream of doing something like this.

[Raeturbo]

5k for that ceiling! Jesus please give me a shout if you need any more done, that’s ludicrous! More than four times too much. I started carrying the hod for my old man to learn the trade in 1972,  been plastering ever since that’s the worse I’ve ever heard  that price is criminal!!

[Viral_Jim]

Indeed. Apparently that included £1k for platform hire due to 'elf 'n' safety and our 10ft ceilings. Thankfully my parents were renovating houses before I could walk so I know a bit about it, or at least enough to know when someone is extracting the wee.

I had all on keeping a straight face while I showed him the door.

[Raeturbo]

Mm, I’d have showed him the toe of my boot in his arse old school I know 

[Sir Tigger KC]

I'd have thought it would be just as easy to trowel on a nice bed of adhesive with a notched trowel than dot & dab like that? 

[Raeturbo]

Yes indeed, a 10mm serrated trowel is what is supposed to be used

[Marks DTM Calib]

Not MY work
looks very DIY
get a bathroom cabinet  or mirror for the wall and a mat for the floor 
not worth making a claim on insurance  IMHO

20 years ago I would have agreed, all to often now I see the DIY quality better than the pros! 

[Marks DTM Calib]

I'd have thought it would be just as easy to trowel on a nice bed of adhesive with a notched trowel than dot & dab like that? 

The 'dabs' looking bloody thick, me thinks its an attempt to save adhesive (or avoid correcting the wall before application)

[Sir Tigger KC]

I'd have thought it would be just as easy to trowel on a nice bed of adhesive with a notched trowel than dot & dab like that? 

The 'dabs' looking bloody thick, me thinks its an attempt to save adhesive (or avoid correcting the wall before application)

They are big tiles so maybe you are right there, although Aaron said that the extension was built in 2012. 

Maybe there are bigger issues lurking underneath those tiles and Aaron has a jerry built extension.   

Sorry Aaron!      

[aaronjb]

They are big tiles so maybe you are right there, although Aaron said that the extension was built in 2012. 

Maybe there are bigger issues lurking underneath those tiles and Aaron has a jerry built extension.   

Sorry Aaron!      

Wouldn't surprise me given some of the bodges we've found in the new part of the house - and all in things there are "professional" receipts for (like the bathroom, the wiring, the plumbing... so basically everything, really!) :/ But yeah, I'd hope the wall didn't need correcting as it's a brand new stud wall in the brand new extension!

But yep - it wasn't a DIY job, which is probably why it's all done wrong (sorry Dave! ).

May just call the house insurance people and let them deal with it and rape me later.. (they already do that plenty because the rest of the house was underpinned in 1989 - as was half the street)

[Shackeng]

The dabs look more like cement. Are they really tile adhesive?

[aaronjb]

The dabs look more like cement. Are they really tile adhesive?

Not actually sure how I'd tell .. but good point. You can certainly tell the tile wasn't stuck on very well as it left very, very little of its 'backing' behind when it fell off.

[dave the builder]

Not MY work
looks very DIY
get a bathroom cabinet  or mirror for the wall and a mat for the floor 
not worth making a claim on insurance  IMHO

Of course it's worth making a claim, that's what insurance is for. Any decent builder is gonna need ten grand to sort that lot out. 

Even IF the claims assessor dropped on a nice 21 Y/o hottie and emptied both balls that day ,and decided to pay out  surely the only liability is to "make good " ,so miss matched tile 
"Any decent builder" would advise ripping all the tile off and starting again ,then get a tiler in after demo.then return to refit and collect very large wad of cash 

The dabs look more like cement. Are they really tile adhesive?

looks like RAPIDSET ,which is fine IF you comb a bed on the wall and butter the back of the tile

seems to be some confusion here about the difference between builder and cowboy (professional with headed bill or DIY cowboy) 

and I agree entirely that some DIY jobs are done very well by homeowners who care and have no time constraints 

green plasterboard (Moisture Resistant) , so probably a builder did that part, screwed ,so is it a stud wall  or a battened brick wall  , which builders tend not to do (dot n dab in cheap ,easy ,effective) unless the wall needs correcting back to vertical,  WWS (wonkey wall syndrome/subsidence)   

[aaronjb]

seems to be some confusion here about the difference between builder and cowboy (professional with headed bill or DIY cowboy) 

The confusion arises because, like any trade, you can't tell the two apart until after they've done the job .. and then, what they've done is all hidden behind something else 

Oh yes, and the insurance advises me this isn't covered under the house insurance so .. guess I'll be redoing the bathroom myself.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Putting my two penny worth in......................I have done some tiling in my time.............................

Looking at the picture it seems to me, although I do not think anyone else has said it, that the 'adhesive' - whatever it really is - has been built up with massive dabs to raise the tiles so they are a good 1/2 inch away from the actual wall, so there is a cavity way beyond 'normal' behind the tiles. Why?

Was it deliberate or a result of mis-calculation of where the other wall tiles would come up to to overall match the shower tray dimensions below?

Just an observation, but to have dabs like that, instead of the usual practice of smoothing the adhesive out to a thin layer that actually aids adhesion and gives the tiles strength is all wrong as was bound to fail. It strikes me that it is amazing no tiles have actually cracked lower down where anyone in the shower, especially big people, (or two!! ) naturally push against the tiles / wall.

[dave the builder]

seems to be some confusion here about the difference between builder and cowboy (professional with headed bill or DIY cowboy) 

The confusion arises because, like any trade, you can't tell the two apart until after they've done the job .. and then, what they've done is all hidden behind something else 

Oh yes, and the insurance advises me this isn't covered under the house insurance so .. guess I'll be redoing the bathroom myself.

sorry for your loss of time and money 
unless you like DIY  it may be better to just get a local tiler in (you pick the tile and supply materials, on a price per meter basis) and stick to your day job .

but you know if you like DIY etc , and want to do it 

Putting my two penny worth in......................I have done some tiling in my time.............................

Looking at the picture it seems to me, although I do not think anyone else has said it, that the 'adhesive' - whatever it really is - has been built up with massive dabs to raise the tiles so they are a good 1/2 inch away from the actual wall, so there is a cavity way beyond 'normal' behind the tiles. Why?

Was it deliberate or a result of mis-calculation of where the other wall tiles would come up to to overall match the shower tray dimensions below?

Just an observation, but to have dabs like that, instead of the usual practice of smoothing the adhesive out to a thin layer that actually aids adhesion and gives the tiles strength is all wrong as was bound to fail. It strikes me that it is amazing no tiles have actually cracked lower down where anyone in the shower, especially big people, (or two!! ) naturally push against the tiles / wall.

It's RAPIDSET adhesive, was probably going off (hence no adhesion to the dry powdery back of the tile) so thick, the bottom tile are probably well stuck, but by the time they got to the top,the mix got thicker, and deeper blobs needed to correct the level . 


with rapidset, you need to get the tile on pronto

[Lizzie Zoom]

seems to be some confusion here about the difference between builder and cowboy (professional with headed bill or DIY cowboy) 

The confusion arises because, like any trade, you can't tell the two apart until after they've done the job .. and then, what they've done is all hidden behind something else 

Oh yes, and the insurance advises me this isn't covered under the house insurance so .. guess I'll be redoing the bathroom myself.

sorry for your loss of time and money 
unless you like DIY  it may be better to just get a local tiler in (you pick the tile and supply materials, on a price per meter basis) and stick to your day job .

but you know if you like DIY etc , and want to do it 

Putting my two penny worth in......................I have done some tiling in my time.............................

Looking at the picture it seems to me, although I do not think anyone else has said it, that the 'adhesive' - whatever it really is - has been built up with massive dabs to raise the tiles so they are a good 1/2 inch away from the actual wall, so there is a cavity way beyond 'normal' behind the tiles. Why?

Was it deliberate or a result of mis-calculation of where the other wall tiles would come up to to overall match the shower tray dimensions below?

Just an observation, but to have dabs like that, instead of the usual practice of smoothing the adhesive out to a thin layer that actually aids adhesion and gives the tiles strength is all wrong as was bound to fail. It strikes me that it is amazing no tiles have actually cracked lower down where anyone in the shower, especially big people, (or two!! ) naturally push against the tiles / wall.

It's RAPIDSET adhesive, was probably going off (hence no adhesion to the dry powdery back of the tile) so thick, the bottom tile are probably well stuck, but by the time they got to the top,the mix got thicker, and deeper blobs needed to correct the level . 


with rapidset, you need to get the tile on pronto

Thanks Dave, I think I understand then why they left so much of a gap behind the tiles - a bodge?!

[aaronjb]

seems to be some confusion here about the difference between builder and cowboy (professional with headed bill or DIY cowboy) 

The confusion arises because, like any trade, you can't tell the two apart until after they've done the job .. and then, what they've done is all hidden behind something else 

Oh yes, and the insurance advises me this isn't covered under the house insurance so .. guess I'll be redoing the bathroom myself.

sorry for your loss of time and money 
unless you like DIY  it may be better to just get a local tiler in (you pick the tile and supply materials, on a price per meter basis) and stick to your day job .

but you know if you like DIY etc , and want to do it 

I bloody hate DIY the trouble is finding someone you trust .. I do know a good plasterer, who might well know a good tiler

To add insult to injury the Range Rover just failed the MOT, so that's £600 for a new alternator (which failed last week), £300 to fix the door lock (which failed THIS BLOODY MORNING!) and an advisory because both offside tyres have picked up nails, the nearside has a cut in the sidewall and the rear brake pipes need replacing before the next MOT. Oh and the wheel bearing and rear control arms are also advisories.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm just going to set light to some £10 notes.

[Allenm]

Given that you have receipts for the work, and it has clearly been done incorrectly, then I would be making a claim against the trade-persons insurance.  That work is not of serviceable quality

[Sir Tigger KC]

I wonder with the variation in temperatures in a bathroom, condensation has been forming in the air gap behind those tiles, which has weakened the adhesive? 

[Viral_Jim]

To add insult to injury the Range Rover just failed the MOT, so that's £600 for a new alternator (which failed last week), £300 to fix the door lock (which failed THIS BLOODY MORNING!) and an advisory because both offside tyres have picked up nails, the nearside has a cut in the sidewall and the rear brake pipes need replacing before the next MOT. Oh and the wheel bearing and rear control arms are also advisories.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm just going to set light to some £10 notes.

This happened to my parents' P38 and the completely serious advice from Shukers Land Rover in Shrewsbury was to cut the whole door off and replace it. 


I rather feel that owning a JLR product is a bit like getting on a Ryanair flight - you knew what the deal was when you signed up. Although arguably "Land Rover - Above & beyond " is snappier than "Land Rover - I'm just going to set light to some £10 notes" 

[STEMO]

I've scratched my itch with regards to owning an Alfa (ouch  ) but I think I'll just have to stay itchy where JLR are concerned.

[STEMO]

Ahhhhh......my Alfa. 166, 3.2, pearlescent blue with red leather. What a noise, lovely car. Until it bit me! 




Put that in the wrong thread originally 

[aaronjb]

I rather feel that owning a JLR product is a bit like getting on a Ryanair flight - you knew what the deal was when you signed up. Although arguably "Land Rover - Above & beyond " is snappier than "Land Rover - I'm just going to set light to some £10 notes" 

File that under "Honest taglines"

[Andy B]

when I want to replace the 'cloak room' toilet & basin, tile the walls & floor, I had trouble finding anyone that would do the whole thing. The room is only 6'x3' so you can only get one person in there at any one time but the different aspects needed to be worked together.
In the end I did it myself ..... it was the easiest option.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Sorry to read this, Aaron.

Sorting the 5% of genuinely good builders, from the 95% of cowboys who think the only qualification required to be a builder is to own a white van or flatbed, is not easy.

Console yourself by getting the  Cobra up and running.

[aaronjb]

That lot came off with no more than fingertip pressure, another one came off with no more than a gentle tug, and the one at the top left is only held on by the silicone sealant up the corner! The ones behind the towel radiator are also loose but held on by the towel radiator, ditto the ones behind the towel hooks. 13 tiles off the wall so far, probably another four that can come down easily.

I'll be honest, I'm tempted to (assuming I can find the same tiles .. I'm sure Wickes sold these as I had them at Bracknell, but they don't seem to be online anymore) just put the loose ones back up, glue the floor tile back together with that resin you can use to patch sinks and call it good - otherwise we're ripping the whole bathroom out and starting again, and I don't have the money for that!

[Sir Tigger KC]

The 'dabs' at top right are a darker colour than the rest suggesting moisture has got in there or condensation has developed?

[aaronjb]

The 'dabs' at top right are a darker colour than the rest suggesting moisture has got in there or condensation has developed?

Yep, the top right - ironically not the first to fall off, but also loose - looks like it was affected when we had a central heating leak last year.. the ones that actually fell off, though, look unaffected (if you see what I mean). The darker ones were actually harder to pull off (fnarr)

[dave the builder]

Have you got enough complete tile to do as I suggested early on and make a section of mirror and put the rest back around it ?
you can get mirror cut to the exact size (I advise you ask for safety backing to be applied ) from a local glass supplier 

or buy a mirror from B n Poo ,Wickes etc and border it with a sheet of mosaic as a feature perhaps 
this is very easy to do , and relatively cheap ,I doubt any similar tile you find would even be a close match , and then it would look odd .

then ,in a few years when you have the important jobs out the way (like getting your cars sorted  ) think about a remodel 

also, burning  new £10 notes will not generate enough heat to keep a JLR product happy ,try burning £50 notes which are paper and produce more heat , you could try £20 notes,( also paper ) but you will need more of them 

[redelitev6]

That lot came off with no more than fingertip pressure, another one came off with no more than a gentle tug, and the one at the top left is only held on by the silicone sealant up the corner! The ones behind the towel radiator are also loose but held on by the towel radiator, ditto the ones behind the towel hooks. 13 tiles off the wall so far, probably another four that can come down easily.

I'll be honest, I'm tempted to (assuming I can find the same tiles .. I'm sure Wickes sold these as I had them at Bracknell, but they don't seem to be online anymore) just put the loose ones back up, glue the floor tile back together with that resin you can use to patch sinks and call it good - otherwise we're ripping the whole bathroom out and starting again, and I don't have the money for that!

You might be able to get the same tiles but the trouble might be getting a colour match ?

[raywilb]

 my son bought a house that was newly built some 18yrs ago. they moved in on a friday afternoon but himself & partner went back to his girlfriends mums place for his tea & a shower before they went out to the local pub for a night out. from the pub they went to the newly acquired house. the next day whilst showering, water was pouring through living room ceiling . whoever had done the plumbing had not fixed the waste to anything.  also a front porch lamp was similar to a coach lamp & when the bulb actually went which had to be inserted from the top was too near the soffit for it to be removed & replaced

[Shackeng]

Reminds me of a buy-to-let I bought. I re-pressurised the combi boiler/heating system, and forgot I'd left the inlet tap on as I was checking the rest of the house. When I got back to the kitchen, the floor was flooded, the boiler installer, who had his name proudly displayed on the casing, had not bothered to connect the overpressure outlet on the top of the boiler to outside!!! King idiot.