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Author Topic: Hand brake woes ... :(  (Read 4273 times)

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Entwood

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Hand brake woes ... :(
« on: 21 June 2018, 21:55:58 »

Hand brake has been playing up recently in that it has been reluctant to fully release, such that as you drive away a "rubbing" sound has been obvious ... applying and releasing the hand brake 2-3 times whilst on the move has always resulted in a fully free, no noise, drive. Whilst ok as a short term fix this was not acceptable to me, so today I decided to strip, clean, lubricate and reassemble the rear brakes.

On stripping the internal levers for the handbrake were bone dry and quite stiff, so cleaned up and regreased with copper grease. Only hassle was one of the four handbrake shoe pins just did NOT want to play .. took over an hour just to get it on properly... now that WAS frustrating, why couldn't it be like the other three and pop straight on ??

As I have always done, once the shoes are partially adjusted, I activated the hand brake a couple of times to centralise the shoes, with the intention of leaving it on 3 clicks for the final shoe adjustment ... which is where it all went pear shaped......

On the second pull something went "twang" and the handbrake lever is totally free throughout its range , absolutely no resistance whatsoever..  :(  The cables at the drums are still under good tension, but the cable at the base of the handbrake lever is loose and floppy, although no visible breakage can be seen on the very small visible length... :(

Copious amounts of plusgas has been applied to all the heatshield bolts in the hope they undo tomorrow, if not the drill and self tappers might be getting a workout later !! I'm hoping that I can remove the heatshields without recourse to removing exhaust and propshaft as Haynes stipulates !!

I'm guessing that something has come adrift around the compensator bar... but what ... ???  :(

Any advice on removing heatshields or any guesses as to what I might find or have to do next, gratefully accepted ...
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Andy B

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #1 on: 21 June 2018, 22:59:12 »

Sorry Nige .... can't remember how it worked & no idea where the Haynes went to.  :-\
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #2 on: 21 June 2018, 23:13:27 »

Certainly you don't need to remove the exhaust!

Also, I believe you don't need to remove the heatshields for handbrake adjustment (though it does make life easier - it depends on the state of your aforementioned screws.) long extension on your ratchet is all you need to adjust it, as I recall. You have to do it by 'feel' to a certain extent. Oh, if the heatshields need to come off you don't need the propshaft/exhaust off, that I can guarantee!

Does sound like something's come adrift - I'd be tempted to get a new cable ordered and at your door to save your time stripping it all down again, to discover the cable's no good. Very cheap and readily available.

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #3 on: 21 June 2018, 23:57:13 »

The outer handbrake cable runs through a sleeve attached to the trailing arm. The sleeve retains the sheath of the cable when the handbrake lever is pulled thus allowing the inner cable to move.
Check that the outer cable has not slid down into the sleeve.
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #4 on: 22 June 2018, 00:46:59 »

Any advice on removing heatshields or any guesses as to what I might find or have to do next, gratefully accepted ...

I replaced the handbrake cable on mine last weekend. The only 'special' tool you need is a deep 13mm socket to undo the balance bar nut.

Good news is no need to remove the exhaust or prop shaft.

Bad news is I did shear of 3 of the 10? heat shield retaining studs. Wear some eye protection when undoing stuff coz 15+ years of crud will be on top of the heat shields and it will all fall in your eyes.
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #5 on: 22 June 2018, 09:24:15 »

Hand brake has been playing up recently in that it has been reluctant to fully release, such that as you drive away a "rubbing" sound has been obvious ... applying and releasing the hand brake 2-3 times whilst on the move has always resulted in a fully free, no noise, drive. Whilst ok as a short term fix this was not acceptable to me, so today I decided to strip, clean, lubricate and reassemble the rear brakes.

On stripping the internal levers for the handbrake were bone dry and quite stiff, so cleaned up and regreased with copper grease. Only hassle was one of the four handbrake shoe pins just did NOT want to play .. took over an hour just to get it on properly... now that WAS frustrating, why couldn't it be like the other three and pop straight on ??

As I have always done, once the shoes are partially adjusted, I activated the hand brake a couple of times to centralise the shoes, with the intention of leaving it on 3 clicks for the final shoe adjustment ... which is where it all went pear shaped......

On the second pull something went "twang" and the handbrake lever is totally free throughout its range , absolutely no resistance whatsoever..  :(  The cables at the drums are still under good tension, but the cable at the base of the handbrake lever is loose and floppy, although no visible breakage can be seen on the very small visible length... :(

Copious amounts of plusgas has been applied to all the heatshield bolts in the hope they undo tomorrow, if not the drill and self tappers might be getting a workout later !! I'm hoping that I can remove the heatshields without recourse to removing exhaust and propshaft as Haynes stipulates !!

I'm guessing that something has come adrift around the compensator bar... but what ... ???  :(

Any advice on removing heatshields or any guesses as to what I might find or have to do next, gratefully accepted ...
I had the same problem recently. In desperation I found a box on a shelf, been there ten years, of handbrake repair spares. In it were spare springs and retaining caps. Not only did they fit, but they went on and engaged in 2 minutes.
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Entwood

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #6 on: 22 June 2018, 10:10:06 »

Thanks for all the advice, glad to hear its doable without removing exhaust and propshaft ! About to goout and see what I can find ....   ???

If a new cable is needed where is the best place to get one ?? Dealer or elsewhere ?? and does it come complete ... ie front cable and compensator/rear cables ??

For some unknown reason my EPC won't run today ... :( ... job for tonight I guess :(
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Nick W

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #7 on: 22 June 2018, 10:26:03 »

New cable is about £25 from ECP. It's complete from the clevises that attach to the brakes, and attaches to the threaded rod on the bottom of the handbrake lever.


I doubt you'll fit it with the heat shields in place, but removing the prop and exhaust would be a stupid waste of effort. You won't notice any difference if you don't refit the heat shields, which is handy as you're bound to break some of the fasteners.
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #8 on: 22 June 2018, 12:01:54 »

Handbrake cable is not too bad a job and mine was getting quite stiff, which may have been partly to blame for the brake sticking. Once it's done it will see the car out.. :y
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Entwood

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #9 on: 22 June 2018, 13:52:51 »

WHAT A PIG !!!

Due to the fitting of a stainless exhaust - prior to my purchase (and its still in good nick after over 100,000 miles in my possession so I don't know how many actual miles its done) the centre box is right over the centre bolt for the heat shield. I've had to remove all the exhaust hanger rubbers and very gently, on a trolly jack, lower the exhaust until I could JUST get clearance for an offset spanner to get in there, then 1/8th of a turn at a time .. :(  I was actually hoping that one would shear !! of all the rest only 4 have sheared.

NOW .. looking at the system nothing appears broken at all, what there is, with the handbrake lever fully released, is a 3/4 gap between the adjusting nut and the compensator bar, with the handbrake lever fully up, the  nut barely touches the compensator bar.

Reading Haynes it appears that I should be able to tighten up that nut to the correct position for correct operation of the handbrake, however, having stripped it down this far I'm sorely tempted to put a new cable on anyway, after 170,000 it must have stretched somewhat.

Euro car parts have one for £33.49 made by Pagid, so ordered for collection tomorrow after 10.00  :)
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #10 on: 22 June 2018, 14:22:05 »

Hi Nigel

Two quick things:

The cable is tensioned (returned) by the return springs that are on the rear of the back plates, are these fitted and still attached?



Also, the eurocarparts price should be £21.77 (with the standard discount that ECP have, this weekends code is SUMMER70) so it may be worth cancelling and re-ordering

« Last Edit: 22 June 2018, 14:32:22 by Fuse 19 »
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Entwood

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #11 on: 22 June 2018, 15:07:28 »

Hi Mark, many thanks :)

Springs at the drums are connected and tight, pulling manually on the compensator bar I can just get them to move and they return OK, so appear to be working fine. The adjuster rod / nut is extremely rusty, as befits 17 years use !!  but it does move with the handbrake lever.

I've no idea what went "twang" and introduced the 3/4 inch difference, but starting from scratch with a new cable should work ... he said hopefully !! I have had the drums off and checked that everything is still ok inside .. all agrees with the pictures both in Haynes and the "how to" guide

Thanks for the heads up on the discount ... spoke to Swindon store, order cancelled and then re-ordered with the discount  :y :y :y :y
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #12 on: 22 June 2018, 15:15:32 »

Excellent, its always best not to pay full price unless you have to.
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #13 on: 22 June 2018, 15:17:11 »

You may have a broken cable (they are sleeved for most of their length so not easy to spot), I would expect the compensator bar to be at an odd angle of that was the case
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TD

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #14 on: 22 June 2018, 17:24:15 »

Just leave it in P and don't use the handbrake....I never did...job jobbed  :y

Runs and hides  ;D
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #15 on: 22 June 2018, 18:06:38 »

Yes the compensator bar would be at an odd angle if something has broken on one side either in the drums or inside the cable (including if the ends of the cable outer has pulled through the body brackets .its only a curled end after all.As you have got this far it’s worth fitting new cable .adjust up each drum whilst cable is off or slack.then adjust up handbrake centre rod.
The thread hasn’t gone on it has it ? Either on the bar or inside the nut ?
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #16 on: 23 June 2018, 09:19:34 »

Just leave it in P and don't use the handbrake....I never did...job jobbed  :y

Runs and hides  ;D
"Will that be the usual hand brake service and MoT Sir?"
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #17 on: 23 June 2018, 13:59:18 »

Just leave it in P and don't use the handbrake....I never did...job jobbed  :y

Runs and hides  ;D
"Will that be the usual hand brake service and MoT Sir?"

FYI It never failed the MOT on the handbrake, not even once  ;)
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Entwood

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #18 on: 23 June 2018, 14:18:46 »

Old cable now off, and I understand why it didn't work !! Neither side will move more than 1/8" within the sleeve. I'm "guessing" from looking at the marks on the visible part of the inner cable that it was about an inch further along on both sides when it was working but sticking.

I'm "guessing" that the sharp pull given to centralise the shoes after the rebuild was enough to move the cable to this new position where it has remained, which is why the lever is sloppy.

Now to fit the new cable ......   :)
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #19 on: 23 June 2018, 17:15:30 »

Just leave it in P and don't use the handbrake....I never did...job jobbed  :y

Runs and hides  ;D
"Will that be the usual hand brake service and MoT Sir?"

FYI It never failed the MOT on the handbrake, not even once  ;)

Mine like wise  ;) ;)
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #20 on: 23 June 2018, 17:41:00 »

Glancing in Haynes as to how to replace the handbrake cable front end adjuster - mine is rusted solid - I am reminded that to replace the handbrake shoes he recommends dropping the exhaust, the prop shaft central bearing, and removing the hubs. I wonder how many hours Vauxhall allows for all that?
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #21 on: 23 June 2018, 17:51:50 »

After reading about all off your trials and tribulations, Gents, I think if I ever have to deal with a dodgy handbrake cable I will use a Special Tool, known as a SEREK!
Limited availability and only from somewhere in Cambridgeshire,  but works every time, superbly..... :) 8) :y

Ron.
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #22 on: 23 June 2018, 17:56:12 »

Servicing, or even replacing, the entire handbrake system is fiddly but hardly difficult. Or expensive, so it's better than a lot of Omega jobs :y
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #23 on: 23 June 2018, 18:08:06 »

Just leave it in P and don't use the handbrake....I never did...job jobbed  :y

Runs and hides  ;D
"Will that be the usual hand brake service and MoT Sir?"

FYI It never failed the MOT on the handbrake, not even once  ;)
I wish I could say the same.  I think my problems with it were my fault in that in the first couple of years of my ownership, I never used it, and then it always seemed to be a running battle every year with it.

Hence, I always used it from then on in.  And also Sassanach showed me the parking pawl, which reinforced how much I needed to use it ;D
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Bigron

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #24 on: 23 June 2018, 18:22:13 »

I always use mine - I park on a slope and I want to be sure it will still be there in the morning; however, it never gets use as a brake, i.e. not shoes rubbing in the drum. How come my handbrake cable needs to take up non-existent wear? It cannot all be down to cable stretch, surely?  ???

Ron.
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Entwood

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #25 on: 23 June 2018, 20:09:08 »

What a pain .... :(

Fitted the new cable, not difficult at all, adjusted it all up nicely, shoes first to just off biting, then the nut at the compensator, and all seemed good. handbrake fully applied at 5 clicks, fully released at 3, all checked by turning the hubs by hand.

So reassemble... heat shields back on, with the exhaust once again very gently moved slightly down to allow access to that poxy centre bolt, just 4 nuts sheared off, plan to drill and self tap tomorrow to prevent rattles, all 8 of the exhaust rubbers back on. Wheels on and torqued up and drop it off the axle stands ....

Check the operation of the handbrake, seems good... on at 5 clicks, off by 3, so out for a test drive. For the first couple of applications it seemed to work ok .. but very quickly started to deteriorate ... now needs 8 clicks to apply and that still allows you to drive away, albeit with a bit of throttle needed. On a hill it only just holds at 8 clicks, I wouldn't trust it overly .. :( As an emergency brake it is pretty useless ... :( Definite MOT fail IMHO

So here I am, wishing I had never bothered putting the heat shields back on, as they will have to come off again tomorrow for further adjustment, the idea of somehow accessing the nut with long extensions from the back seems to be impossible as the propshaft centre bearing sits right in front of the compensator bar and its nut.

I'm guessing that some initial stretch or give in the new cables has manifested itself, or I simply hadn't pulled hard enough on the lever when initially adjusting, either way it all has to come off again tomorrow. Methinks I'll leave the heat shields off for a few days in case it needs further adjustment .. they can always go back on in a week or two !! ... if only I'd thought of that earlier .. :(
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #26 on: 24 June 2018, 09:57:01 »

On my MV6, the headshields were scrapped pretty quickly...   ...ie, the first time I changed the handbrake cable (after the original seized through non-use).

Just say ;)


I suspect if ever I have to adjust the cable on TBE, that will never see the heatshields again...
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Entwood

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #27 on: 24 June 2018, 14:34:40 »

Well... its now done ... the small heatshields are still off, but everything else back together and working.  :)

Problem was quite simple in the end ... the two brackets that the cable "outer" locates in must have been pulled open a wee bit on removing the old cable, the new cable, including the flanges, had pulled about half way into the bracket, thus giving about 1/2 " of slack in the cable. Put them in the right location and tighten the bracket down a tad and things were immediately better. I also noted that the cables where they attach to the brake shoe levers were sitting a lot lower than when I fitted them, I guess they moved down on application, thus making another 1/4 " of play.

Rear heatshields removed. and whilst staring at the centre shields, not wanting the hassle of lowering the exhaust to remove them ... an idea started to form .... with the handbrake fully off for maximum looseness, one arm down the front of the heatshield to push the compensator bar slightly sideways and feel for the socket, and a deep socket on 2 long extension bars from the rear of the heatshield, could I get access to the nut past the propshaft bearing ???  :-\ :-\

Answer was YES, now I know what a gynaecologist feels like !!!  :D Couldn't see a thing so all done from memory and feel, but the nut was tightened up bit by bit with the handbrake operation checked frequently, now fully on a 5 clicks, fully free at 3. Road tested and good :)

Rear heatshields remain off for a few days in case further adjustment needed. Down to Highbridge tomorrow to collect the tintent, be interesting to check out the handbrake on a few hillstarts through the Quantocks with the extra weight on the back :)
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #28 on: 24 June 2018, 16:19:39 »

Kicking around in the dust of OOF there's a thread where I replaced my rusted heat shield threads. It never made it as a How To, but in a nutshell I drilled out the old threads and replaced them with stainless steel machine screws and nuts. Had to lift the carpets to do the job properly, and it was judged as a waste of time by onlooking family when I did it(!), but a year or so later when I needed to get them off double quick for the impending MoT, what could have been several hours buggering about was a much quicker, pleasurable job.

I'd say well worth it if you intend on keeping the car, as I do.  :y
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #29 on: 24 June 2018, 17:57:23 »

Great ,glad you sorted it. Those brakets do seem weak and bend easily.
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Entwood

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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #30 on: 24 June 2018, 22:09:35 »

Kicking around in the dust of OOF there's a thread where I replaced my rusted heat shield threads. It never made it as a How To, but in a nutshell I drilled out the old threads and replaced them with stainless steel machine screws and nuts. Had to lift the carpets to do the job properly, and it was judged as a waste of time by onlooking family when I did it(!), but a year or so later when I needed to get them off double quick for the impending MoT, what could have been several hours buggering about was a much quicker, pleasurable job.

I'd say well worth it if you intend on keeping the car, as I do.  :y

That must be the "gold standard" of a fix ...good work .. but I intend to be much simpler .. can't bear the thought of having to remove all the trim to remove the carpets and soundproofing !! and knowing my luck the seats would have to come out !! :(

When I do its a simple 1/8" drill as near to the centre of the sheared stud as I can, then a self tapper with a decent sized washer. Slap some hammerite over it and the jobs done !!

Lazy git me   :)
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #31 on: 24 June 2018, 23:18:07 »

I have to confess that when I did the shoes on mine I decided not to do battle with a 17 year old cable and adjuster and did all the adjustment on the adjusters within the drums. It seemed to work well, the MOT tester was happy and the handbrake actually works better than it did on the two year old Omega I had back in 2002!
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Re: Hand brake woes ... :(
« Reply #32 on: 25 June 2018, 19:24:30 »

Yes .thats the only way to do it properly anyway. Adjust up the drums correctly and 99% of the time the cable adjustment is fine.
Only then do you need to adjust the cable (after checking it’s still seated properly in the outer cable brackets)if it has too much travel.
And if you find the adjuster is seized and feels like it may snap you could add a washer to the cable brackets.(helps stop them opening up too !)
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