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[Bigron]

Tyre-Smart found my ball joints to be knackered yesterday, but made no adverse comments about the wishbones themselves, so would it be acceptable to replace the ball joints alone?
Ebay are offering two ball joints plus new bolts for £14.95 the pair, delivered.
Your thoughts please, gents?
Then all I need is someone to fit them in exchange for beer vouchers!

Ron.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I have no doubt the wishbone bushes will be pretty knackered, they always are - but, Your on a limited budget I believe, don't do that many miles, and have no particular desire to see how quickly you can get from A to B.
So realistically, I would change the balljoints, and then keep an eye on tyre wear. As long as its acceptable to you, then happy days.
I cant remember if there is enough space to grind or dril the rivets out of the wishbones in situ tbh. If it is it makes the job a lot easier,quicker and cheaper.
Realistically, I'm afraid its unlikely I could volunteer myself, as I have so little spare time, I struggle to look after my own cars the way I want to. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Small angle grinder and dead head them from underneath 

Undo the pinch bolt first though

[Bigron]

Albs, I wasn't hinting for you to volunteer, but thanks for your correct assessment of my finances and car useage - 4,000 miles last year!
DG, I have no idea what you mean: I'm an Electronics Engineerm not Mechanical, hence my need for help with all but the simplest of car tasks. 

Ron.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I didn't think you were hinting Ron. Just thought I would state my circumstances, as I happen to be nearby. 
In theory, if theres enough space - undo pinch bolt and pull balljoints down and away from the steering knuckle. Grind the top or bottom of the retaining rivets off, so the ball joints can be pulled out of the end of the wishbones. Then slide the new ones in and use three bolts with locking nuts to secure them in place.
Not difficult, just a bit time consuming and a bit awkward. Probably an hour a side for someone with the correct tools.

[Lazydocker]

I wish I could commit to help Ron (being relatively local too) but am so busy at the moment I don't know what day of the week it is!

[Bigron]

Aw, thanks for the thought, LD. I'd take myself off to Serek's but with my coolant leak I'd never make it!
Also, of course, having just had four new tyres fitted, I don't want to drive very far until the ball joints are replaced and the tracking/camber done.

Ron.

[BazaJT]

Yes if the wishbones[bushes]are fit for purpose then I'd go with just replacing the balljoints-as I stated in the other thread it is in fact what I did when my car failed on a balljoint.They can be done without removing the wishbone from the car which saves a bit on the expense.

[TheBoy]

I have replaced the balljoints on genuine GM wishbones before (as part of a full refurb).

Drill out rivets, and nut and bolt new ones in.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Me too. Just wasn't sure it could be done in situ, but Baza has done it, which is good news. Makes it a relatively straightforward job.
I ground the heads off the rivets rather than drilling them out, but don't suppose it matters much.

[Doctor Gollum]

Does still require geometry set up, as there's about a mm of slop on all three bolt holes.

Those ATP ones are more cost effective if unsure of bush condition... Clearly your MoT tester was blind or drunk or both, so a pass is clearly no guarantee of condition.

Put another way, you can spend £15-25 on the ball joints, plus two hours labour plus set up, or spend another £35-40 and obtain new wishbone bushes, drop links and track rods, spend the same on labour and set up and be good for another £20k

[TheBoy]

But we all know the ATP ones are unacceptably shite. And as the cost is in the alignment (and fitting if you need to pay a garage), they end up being an expensive experiment.

[Doctor Gollum]

But we all know the ATP ones are unacceptably shite. And as the cost is in the alignment (and fitting if you need to pay a garage), they end up being an expensive experiment.

With respect, they serve a purpose, and others have found them perfectly adequate. Have either of your car's had them fitted?

[powerslinky]

But we all know the ATP ones are unacceptably shite. And as the cost is in the alignment (and fitting if you need to pay a garage), they end up being an expensive experiment.

  told yer the "purists" would be slagging 'em 

Not really an "experiment "  TB  as several Oofers have had decent results & mileage out of these.  I used to fit as much OE stuff as I could  . . .but a set of GM bones comes to more than I paid for car 

[terry paget]

All my Omegas are running on ATP wishbones, track rods and drop links. A set lasts me about 30K miles, and costs £80. If a car of mine lasts 3 years I am pleased, and am happy to fit it with new wishbones. What with rust in the rear shock turrets, rust in the cills, plus other nasty surprises, I run them from year to year, MOT to MOT.

 In the past I have spent £70 on one wishbone, only to have it fail within a year. I don't know how ATP do them at the price.

[powerslinky]

Who was it wrote & sang that song about Omega wishbones? ?

Seem to remember the chorus going something like :

Dem Bones  . . Dem Bones  . . Dem 

[Bigron]

Well, I've done the deed and ordered dem bones from ATP: £69.99 - so that's my pension buggered!
I am expecting that letter from my bank manager, you know the one.....
"could we please go back to the old system whereby you use YOUR money rather than ours"!

Ron.

[TheBoy]

All my Omegas are running on ATP wishbones, track rods and drop links. A set lasts me about 30K miles, and costs £80. If a car of mine lasts 3 years I am pleased, and am happy to fit it with new wishbones. What with rust in the rear shock turrets, rust in the cills, plus other nasty surprises, I run them from year to year, MOT to MOT.

 In the past I have spent £70 on one wishbone, only to have it fail within a year. I don't know how ATP do them at the price.

My own personal preference is, if you still have the original GM or the earlier Lemforder (the later ones are poor), refurb them.  Poly the front, then you never have to worry about that again, and about every 2-3yrs, rebush the rear with GM bushes.  GM balljoints seem to last forever - I have only ever once had to change them (and not for MOT, which it passed, but because I felt there was play in them). Thus, my wishbone bill comes to about £20 every 3yrs, not including alignment which I do more frequent due to driving style.

I made a promise to myself to only use GM TRE's, following trying some cheapies (which all started with falling for the Autovaux "genuine" parts), which simply do not last. If they go within warranty, you still have the £70 realignment charge.  Just does not make financial sense, as the £25 for the genuine TRE is good for over 100k miles. Trying to save £10 on a TRE ended up costing me a whole load more.



By following the (better) advice on this very forum, and its predecessor, I was able to make my Omegas very, very cheap to run, with the suspension and steering as tight as a drum (without the usual sloppiness I feel when driving many of the other Omegas that used to turn up here), and reliable - crank sensors not withstanding! And I never had to spend every weekend out tinkering with the car either, in fact, I was always looking for jobs to do to it, or anybody elses - working in IT, staring into screens all day long, its really therapeutic to do some real work!

And all thanks to the guidance I've had from all the members here, and a special call out to those that I have repeatedly had physically help me on multiple occasions, including Marks DTM Calib (all round good egg), Darth Loo-knee (all round good egg), chrisgixer (suspension guru), tunnie (useless student, but useful gadget hands ), LFF (engine transplanter - 3 times in 2 weeks ), Lazydocker (LPG guru) and Kevin Wood (LPG and general engine management guru). Plus countless others, including JamesV6CDX who helped out when I was feeling too gay to change a K series HG (having never previously changed a HG), and the tractor engine swap posse - that's a day I remember with much fondness, despite the miserable weather.


Maybe because of all this help, or maybe just because of a desire to assist, I spend as much time on here as I can, and want members to learn from the mistakes I've made^*, and advice I've been given that works for me, not to mention the extensive knowledge I've built up in my 14yrs of Omega ownership, probably 12 of those with full Tech2 access.  It frustrates me when I see people post something as fact when clearly they haven't even tried it themselves.  And I know I am the king of one word answers, something I'm constantly trying to change.  If that comes across as arrogant or egotistical, that is certainly not my intention, all I want to do is keep members' Omegas on the road for as long as possible, and as cost effectively as possible.

[TheBoy]

^*Including the time I was doing an oil cooler on TB1 (aka, The Heap), a certain DTM fella told me over the phone, "do not bend the oil pipes, undo them at the filter end".  A piece of advice I chose to ignore, as it looked simple enough not to worry about filter end.  I thought I knew better .

I recall calling him, whilst he was sunning himself on holibobs, "Maaaaarrrrkkkkk,  the oil pipes won't go back onto the cooler!". "Did you bend them?". "errr, yes". "&*%*&** idiot, I told you not to. OK, do XYZ, blah blah".

He was right in the first instance. And was right in how to resolve the problem I'd made.

[powerslinky]

Oops!  TB     my comment about "purists"  slagging off these "inferior" products was , as shown by the amount of laughing faces I posted along side it, a tongue in cheek comment.
I'm sure if you drove mine or plenty of other Oof owned omegas, you would stop after a few hundred yards & get out , saying something like " I cannot possibly drive that thing".
I totally respect your vast knowledge , expertise & advice on all matters Omega,an example is the recent reply to the "radiator change " post of mine, but never having had the funds to get any of my omegas to your standard of handling , mine seems fine to me , even with ATP wishbones .
I use my present omega as a weekend car, not doing that many miles & at a fairly gentle pace . So suspension & handling do not have to be as good as they could be & I am quite happy with the results I get from  these non OE parts.
It may be different if I were to drive your car & feel the probable huge difference , but it would still be a financial burden .

Hoping this makes my opinion on the subject a tad more clearer 

[Bigron]

Well, that was hardly a one-word post, TB, and very informative.
Your comments have come a little late for me, as I have ordered wishbones from ATP, after I had already bought the £15 Ebay ones.
Why both? Because of suggestions on here, followed by recommendations to replace the wishbones instead, in case my (presumably) 16 year old originals were tired.
I suppose I have two options; just do the ball joints and keep the wishbones for future problems, or vice-versa.

I was uncertain as to whether the car would pass its MOT this year, but it did, almost - one tyre plus advisories on other tyres and brake pads.
I now want to try to get it into proper condition and keep it for as long as I can, because I love it!

Having spent (for me) big money on tyres, etc., and full alignment still to come, needing a radiator and maybe one day the air con fixed, I really am relying on the great blokes on here for the advice, support and encouragement that you so ably described, without which my beloved Omega would be resting in that great car park in the sky!

Ron.

[TheBoy]

Well, that was hardly a one-word post, TB, and very informative.
Your comments have come a little late for me, as I have ordered wishbones from ATP, after I had already bought the £15 Ebay ones.
Why both? Because of suggestions on here, followed by recommendations to replace the wishbones instead, in case my (presumably) 16 year old originals were tired.
I suppose I have two options; just do the ball joints and keep the wishbones for future problems, or vice-versa.

I was uncertain as to whether the car would pass its MOT this year, but it did, almost - one tyre plus advisories on other tyres and brake pads.
I now want to try to get it into proper condition and keep it for as long as I can, because I love it!

Having spent (for me) big money on tyres, etc., and full alignment still to come, needing a radiator and maybe one day the air con fixed, I really am relying on the great blokes on here for the advice, support and encouragement that you so ably described, without which my beloved Omega would be resting in that great car park in the sky!

Ron.

If the original wishbones are GM, keep them in the shed, and look at picking up some poly bushes if any come up cheaply. Then you have spares next time they fail.

[Bigron]

Thanks TB: so I need to buy a shed to keep them in? More expense!
More seriously though, I keep reading about poly bushes on here, but know nothing about them, nor where to get them. Why are they so good?

Ron.

[TheBoy]

Thanks TB: so I need to buy a shed to keep them in? More expense!
More seriously though, I keep reading about poly bushes on here, but know nothing about them, nor where to get them. Why are they so good?

Ron.

Its normally the front bushes that fail first. And they are a bit of a bugger to replace if you don't have a press.

Polybushes last forever. So buy a set, and you never have to spend money on front bushes again. As a bonus, you get more consistent handling, due to the way the normal bushes degrade.

A few of us have tried polybushing the rear bush of the front wishbone, with unsuccessful results. DG fractured his (ATP?) wishbone after a while, I got strange handling effects on mine (but fortunately no wishbone failure on my GM wishbones).  So the general advice is use a GM bush on the rearward one when they need replacement, which is just under £10 per side IIRC

[Nick W]

Thanks TB: so I need to buy a shed to keep them in? More expense!
More seriously though, I keep reading about poly bushes on here, but know nothing about them, nor where to get them. Why are they so good?

Ron.

the standard front bush relies on the slop - sorry, compliance - of an oil filled void to isolate road shocks. As the rubber part is bonded between the inner and outer sleeves it twists as the wishbone moves. This means it isn't very durable even when fitted correctly. The poly bushes are solid, rotate around the separate inner sleeve, and don't have an outer sleeve. As long as you lubricate them on fitting, they last for ever. In theory, they make for a harsher ride, but you'd have to be a fairytale princess to actually notice. There isn't a downside to them.

[TheBoy]

Thanks TB: so I need to buy a shed to keep them in? More expense!
More seriously though, I keep reading about poly bushes on here, but know nothing about them, nor where to get them. Why are they so good?

Ron.

the standard front bush relies on the slop - sorry, compliance - of an oil filled void to isolate road shocks. As the rubber part is bonded between the inner and outer sleeves it twists as the wishbone moves. This means it isn't very durable even when fitted correctly. The poly bushes are solid, rotate around the separate inner sleeve, and don't have an outer sleeve. As long as you lubricate them on fitting, they last for ever. In theory, they make for a harsher ride, but you'd have to be a fairytale princess to actually notice. There isn't a downside to them.

beyond being double the cost (and you have to buy decent quality coppaslip, not the shite the likes of Powerflex supply, to stop squeaking 6 months down the line)

[Shackeng]

...and IIRC, they can be fitted without removing the 'bone completely.

[Doctor Gollum]

...and IIRC, they can be fitted without removing the 'bone completely.

Not really a driveway job, much better done on a ramp. But yes, perfectly doable

[Bigron]

Now I don't know what to do, especially now that I've bought wishbones (and Ebay ball joints)!
Where do you get poly bushes from?

Ron.

[Doctor Gollum]

Now I don't know what to do, especially now that I've bought wishbones (and Ebay ball joints)!
Where do you get poly bushes from?

Ron.

Ron, don't fret yourself. Fit the bits from ATP. Keep your old wishbones and at some point in the near future, clean them up and fit the new ball joints to them. At that point, obtain and fit new rear bushes and poly front bushes. You will then have a set of wishbones ready to either fit to your car as and when or to sell on to another OOFer

[Lazydocker]

Now I don't know what to do, especially now that I've bought wishbones (and Ebay ball joints)!
Where do you get poly bushes from?

Ron.

Ron, don't fret yourself. Fit the bits from ATP. Keep your old wishbones and at some point in the near future, clean them up and fit the new ball joints to them. At that point, obtain and fit new rear bushes and poly front bushes. You will then have a set of wishbones ready to either fit to your car as and when or to sell on to another OOFer

This... I doubt your driving style or mileage justify worrying too much 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Exactly. 

[Nick W]

beyond being double the cost (and you have to buy decent quality coppaslip, not the shite the likes of Powerflex supply, to stop squeaking 6 months down the line)

FFS sake Jaime, is there anything you can't wear out quicker than everyone else?

[ronnyd]

I may upset a few "purists" on here but here goes. I had my old PFL for seven years and never had any suspension or steering repairs (only a rear spring), no geo. setups etc. Tyre wear was very good and passed MOT with minimal fuss as i had things done when needed doing, not waiting for the test to come round. My Desmond is very similar re tyre wear and steering etc work and geo. setting. Also same regarding MOTs. It,s my only car so it is used daily and also, same as BigRon, i am on a pension so things have to be kept tight, which is probably more than my suspension . I,m quite satisfied with the ride/handling of my car and as long as it keeps passing tests it,s fine by me. I daresay if a few of you guys drove my car you would find not to your liking but, it,s mine and i,m happy Just saying .

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Nothing wrong with that imo. Ive gone to town a bit with my current one, but its how I motivate myself to put in 80 + hour weeks.
Its my treat to myself, if that makes sense.
Ironically, this has coincided with me becoming a bit of a grandad driver. 

[powerslinky]

Now I don't know what to do, especially now that I've bought wishbones (and Ebay ball joints)!
Where do you get poly bushes from?

Ron.

Ron, don't fret yourself. Fit the bits from ATP. Keep your old wishbones and at some point in the near future, clean them up and fit the new ball joints to them. At that point, obtain and fit new rear bushes and poly front bushes. You will then have a set of wishbones ready to either fit to your car as and when or to sell on to another OOFer

This... I doubt your driving style or mileage justify worrying too much 

Exactly my thoughts when I suggested the ATP 6 piece kit to Ron .  Fit those parts , get a geo set up , get a new rad fitted & you will be good for another couple of years at least.

[Bigron]

Thank you gentlemen, I feel encouraged now. I especkally like the suggestioin from DG to fit wishbones and refurb my old ones - if they are still sound.
The wishbones are promised for next Thursday, but I'm still uncertain about radiator supplier: BigAl is also looking and I was thinking of waiting for him to buy his (don't tell him!) and if it fitted without drama, go and do likewise.....
The next problem is to find an Oofer willing to fit things for me - I have no faith in local garages and the excellent Tyre-Smart do not undertake mechanical work, only tyre sales and alignment. My coolant leak won't allow me to get to Serek.

Ron.

[Nick W]

Thank you gentlemen, I feel encouraged now. I especkally like the suggestioin from DG to fit wishbones and refurb my old ones - if they are still sound.
The wishbones are promised for next Thursday, but I'm still uncertain about radiator supplier: BigAl is also looking and I was thinking of waiting for him to buy his (don't tell him!) and if it fitted without drama, go and do likewise.....
The next problem is to find an Oofer willing to fit things for me - I have no faith in local garages and the excellent Tyre-Smart do not undertake mechanical work, only tyre sales and alignment. My coolant leak won't allow me to get to Serek.

Ron.

Are you in a rush to have them fitted? Replacing wishbones isn't a long job, but I'm busy for the next couple of weekends.


I can't see the point in refurbing existing ones - I did 3 pairs last year, and binned the lot. And I certainly wouldn't be doing it with them on the car.

[Bigron]

No big rush, Nick; I really appreciate thew offer, thank you.
I haven't got the wishbones yet. Fortunately I don't need to go very far for a while so I won't wear down my new tyres! Also, I've yet to order a new radiator.....

Ron.

[TheBoy]

beyond being double the cost (and you have to buy decent quality coppaslip, not the shite the likes of Powerflex supply, to stop squeaking 6 months down the line)

FFS sake Jaime, is there anything you can't wear out quicker than everyone else?

The squeaking/creaking is really annoying

[YZ250]

beyond being double the cost (and you have to buy decent quality coppaslip, not the shite the likes of Powerflex supply, to stop squeaking 6 months down the line)

FFS sake Jaime, is there anything you can't wear out quicker than everyone else?

Them that grew up with Molyslip stick with Molyslip. 

[TheBoy]

beyond being double the cost (and you have to buy decent quality coppaslip, not the shite the likes of Powerflex supply, to stop squeaking 6 months down the line)

FFS sake Jaime, is there anything you can't wear out quicker than everyone else?

Them that grew up with Molyslip stick with Molyslip. 

Exactly Mr YZ. That's precisely what I mean by decent Coppaslip