Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Matteomart on 22 June 2019, 22:30:23
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I have an N reg 2.5 v6 auto omega, the car was working fine 3 years ago but then it was parked up for a while and occasionally started until about a year ago it wouldn't start at all. What I have found out so far; The main problem is that the fuel pump doesn't prime (I tried changing pump and relay before i found out about the plugs not sparking) and the spark plugs don't spark, the engine does crank though. The key fob doesn't lock or unlock the car the light on the fob flashes but nothing happens to the car (it's the one that has a key and a separate fob) if i put the key in the door all doors will lock and unlock electronically and all the electronics in the cabin work from what i have seen so far. I did a paper clip test and at first it was showing 145 and if i left the key in for a minute or so it would keep cycling the code and eventually change to 144. I also bought a new battery and tried another battery.
I'm really bad at writing posts and tend to miss quite a few details so if there is any other information i can get for you please ask. Thanks in advance
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Immobilizer
is the ID40 chip in the key ?
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Immobilizer
is the ID40 chip in the key ?
+1 for Immobiliser
BUT
the fob flashes but nothing happens to the car (it's the one that has a key and a separate fob)
The earliest cars didn't have a chip in the key. They used an infra-red transmitter in a separate fob that you had to point at a bulb up by the rear view mirror. Once you had disabled the immobiliser you had about a minute to start the engine before it immobilised again.
My first Omega (1994 L reg IIRC) had it. I think they only used that system for the first 2 years.
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Sorry , was not aware of this IR fob :-[
every day's a school day :)
so being IR signal, is there a synchronization procedure when you have a flat battery in the car or handset :-\
the fault codes for Bosch Motronic 2.8 (1994 to 1996) confirm No immobiliser signal received & Incorrect immobiliser signal received
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I used to find that I had to be fairly precise about pointing the IR transmitter directly at the bulb up by the mirror.
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As well as the immobiliser issue I would advise to drain the fuel and replace with fresh. Petrol deteriorates over time, and three year old petrol is unlikely to be much use when trying to get the engine to run.
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Immobilizer
is the ID40 chip in the key ?
+1 for Immobiliser
BUT
the fob flashes but nothing happens to the car (it's the one that has a key and a separate fob)
The earliest cars didn't have a chip in the key. They used an infra-red transmitter in a separate fob that you had to point at a bulb up by the rear view mirror. Once you had disabled the immobiliser you had about a minute to start the engine before it immobilised again.
My first Omega (1994 L reg IIRC) had it. I think they only used that system for the first 2 years.
Your,e probably right there Andy, my 94 PFL didn,t. I could open it with another key but couldn,t start it. Found this out when the ignition switch broke and i sourced a used replacement. :y
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I cant get mine to lock with the fob, I just tried putting the key in the ignition and holding the lock button down while I point it at the sensor and I got nothing
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I cant get mine to lock with the fob, I just tried putting the key in the ignition and holding the lock button down while I point it at the sensor and I got nothing
If it won't unlock the doors it won't release the immobiliser. Did you change the batteries in the fob?
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I cant get mine to lock with the fob, I just tried putting the key in the ignition and holding the lock button down while I point it at the sensor and I got nothing
do you have to turn the key to accessory position (lights on dash but engine not running) to sync the fob :-\
like on astra,vectra etc
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I cant get mine to lock with the fob, I just tried putting the key in the ignition and holding the lock button down while I point it at the sensor and I got nothing
If it won't unlock the doors it won't release the immobiliser. Did you change the batteries in the fob?
I haven't but I tested the voltage and both batteries were 3v
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The radio came on for a couple of seconds then went and I can't get it back on, I don't know if that's relevant at all
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I cant get mine to lock with the fob, I just tried putting the key in the ignition and holding the lock button down while I point it at the sensor and I got nothing
If it won't unlock the doors it won't release the immobiliser. Did you change the batteries in the fob?
I haven't but I tested the voltage and both batteries were 3v
just 3 volts ? which probably drops down to 2 or less when the button is pressed :-\
so new batteries in the fob would be a good next step
also worth checking that your battery in the car is fully charged and good
if voltage drops bellow 12v when cranking, the ecu will shut down too
The radio came on for a couple of seconds then went and I can't get it back on, I don't know if that's relevant at all
worry about the radio once you have a car that starts
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I don't think that he is worried about the radio just telling us incase it is related to start up.Certainly change the petrol once you have a spark.Sounds like an immobiliser problem.
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I've just put new batteries in the fob, still nothing. :-\
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Is it possible that the sensor near the rear view mirror has broken? I have a sun roof so maybe a bit of water has come through, there doesn't seem to be any water marks
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is the car battery ok ?
tried fob sync procedure ?
you could remove the -ve battery terminal for 10 mins to reset ecu ,then try a re-sync
hold the button on remote for about 10 secs aimed at sensor with key i on ?
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is the car battery ok ?
tried fob sync procedure ?
you could remove the -ve battery terminal for 10 mins to reset ecu ,then try a re-sync
hold the button on remote for about 10 secs aimed at sensor with key i on ?
I've done all of this a couple of times and nothing has worked, I'm really lost
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I read that if it's an immobiliser issue the emo should flash when I'm cranking it, that doesn't happen the light goes off while the car is cranking
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Resync procedure for the old type ir remote is:
-separate remote from key
-turn key in ignotion (cant remember if its to position 1 or 2, try both)
-hold the remote maximum 5 cm away from the little dome sensor in the roof and press button on remote.
If resync is succesfull interior light will flash on/off a couple of times as confirmation.
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Resync procedure for the old type ir remote is:
-separate remote from key
-turn key in ignotion (cant remember if its to position 1 or 2, try both)
-hold the remote maximum 5 cm away from the little dome sensor in the roof and press button on remote.
If resync is succesfull interior light will flash on/off a couple of times as confirmation.
Just tried this and still nothing, when I have the key in position 1 there isn't any lights could that be part of the issue? Position 2 I get dash lights
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Immobilizer
is the ID40 chip in the key ?
+1 for Immobiliser
BUT
the fob flashes but nothing happens to the car (it's the one that has a key and a separate fob)
The earliest cars didn't have a chip in the key. They used an infra-red transmitter in a separate fob that you had to point at a bulb up by the rear view mirror. Once you had disabled the immobiliser you had about a minute to start the engine before it immobilised again.
My first Omega (1994 L reg IIRC) had it. I think they only used that system for the first 2 years.
They had a Chip in the Key, as far as Im aware all UK Omegas had Chip + Transponder set up's, the Infra Red was purely for Remote Locking and Alarm.
Sounds to me like it could be a Crank Sensor issue, is the Immobilizer Lamp flashing when you Try and start the car?
It could be its still in "wont Start Immobilizer Mode", you could try Diss the Battery (Full Charged), fully remove the Main ECU and leave over night, put ECU back in Connect Battery (or other way around cant remember) if need be enter the Car using Key only and try a start and or re diagnose from there..
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Immobilizer
is the ID40 chip in the key ?
+1 for Immobiliser
BUT
the fob flashes but nothing happens to the car (it's the one that has a key and a separate fob)
The earliest cars didn't have a chip in the key. They used an infra-red transmitter in a separate fob that you had to point at a bulb up by the rear view mirror. Once you had disabled the immobiliser you had about a minute to start the engine before it immobilised again.
My first Omega (1994 L reg IIRC) had it. I think they only used that system for the first 2 years.
They had a Chip in the Key, as far as Im aware all UK Omegas had Chip + Transponder set up's, the Infra Red was purely for Remote Locking and Alarm.
Sounds to me like it could be a Crank Sensor issue, is the Immobilizer Lamp flashing when you Try and start the car?
It could be its still in "wont Start Immobilizer Mode", you could try Diss the Battery (Full Charged), fully remove the Main ECU and leave over night, put ECU back in Connect Battery (or other way around cant remember) if need be enter the Car using Key only and try a start and or re diagnose from there..
Is it possible the crank sensor is faulty and doesn't put out a code through the paperclip thing?
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you can get a weak crank sensor signal that will not throw a code
plus
you can't rule out parts like the fuel pump relay ,pump etc etc that you replaced (sometimes new parts are duff)
but until you sort the remote to lock and unlock the doors, you have to assume the car is immobilized
I take it there has never been an aftermarket alarm /immobilizer ?
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you can get a weak crank sensor signal that will not throw a code
plus
you can't rule out parts like the fuel pump relay ,pump etc etc that you replaced (sometimes new parts are duff)
but until you sort the remote to lock and unlock the doors, you have to assume the car is immobilized
I take it there has never been an aftermarket alarm /immobilizer ?
I don't think there is any aftermarket alarm or immobilizer on it. I put a multimeter on the crankshaft sensor and between 2 of the pins i was starting at 10k ohms and if i kept the probes on the pins the resistance would slowly go up, I held it on long enough for it to get to 20k. Is that a faulty sensor or me doing something wrong?
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that is not how you test a crank sensor :o :-X
until you sort the remote to lock and unlock the doors, you have to assume the car is immobilized
so start there ;)
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Faulty Crank sensor would still allow it to crank. :-X
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Faulty Crank sensor would still allow it to crank. :-X
The car still cranks, Just no fuel pump or spark
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being the early Omega
does it have the fuel pump relay with the diode and 2 coils (as per omega A) ?
that takes a negative pulse from crank sensor to trigger firing
so if you have a duff one, you could loose spark and fuel IIRC
BUT
still think you need to resolve this non working remote fob / immobilizer
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being the early Omega
does it have the fuel pump relay with the diode and 2 coils (as per omega A) ?
that takes a negative pulse from crank sensor to trigger firing
so if you have a duff one, you could loose spark and fuel IIRC
BUT
still think you need to resolve this non working remote fob / immobilizer
With the omega if you weren't using the fob to lock it you couldn't use your car with just the key?
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I'm looking at wiring diagrams and to me it looks like the car shouldn't be cranking if it is immobilised
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being the early Omega
does it have the fuel pump relay with the diode and 2 coils (as per omega A) ?
that takes a negative pulse from crank sensor to trigger firing
so if you have a duff one, you could loose spark and fuel IIRC
BUT
still think you need to resolve this non working remote fob / immobilizer
With the omega if you weren't using the fob to lock it you couldn't use your car with just the key?
when you last had it running , did you use the remote to open it ?
is there an ID40 chip in the key ?
when trying to sync, do you hold the fob next to the key when cranking ?(is there a transponder chip in the fob ?)
lock car,remove battery for 10 mins, unlock car ,key in position 2, aim fob at sensor for 10 seconds, put fob by key and crank ?
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being the early Omega
does it have the fuel pump relay with the diode and 2 coils (as per omega A) ?
that takes a negative pulse from crank sensor to trigger firing
so if you have a duff one, you could loose spark and fuel IIRC
BUT
still think you need to resolve this non working remote fob / immobilizer
With the omega if you weren't using the fob to lock it you couldn't use your car with just the key?
when you last had it running , did you use the remote to open it ?
is there an ID40 chip in the key ?
when trying to sync, do you hold the fob next to the key when cranking ?(is there a transponder chip in the fob ?)
lock car,remove battery for 10 mins, unlock car ,key in position 2, aim fob at sensor for 10 seconds, put fob by key and crank ?
No last time I had it running I'm pretty sure I put the key in the door to unlock it then just got in and started it up. The fob is on a key ring with the key and that's how it used to always start but I just tried holding the fob right against the key and still nothing
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is there an ID40 chip in the key ?
when trying to sync, do you hold the fob next to the key when cranking ?(is there a transponder chip in the fob ?)
lock car,remove battery for 10 mins, unlock car ,key in position 2, aim fob at sensor for 10 seconds, put fob by key and crank ?
does removing the battery for 10 mins clear the fault codes ?
then try the above sync procedure and see if you get a new code 143 144 or 145 :y
if your sure you have not lost a transponder chip out the fob or key :-\ worth looking
or do you have a spare key and fob :-\
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is there an ID40 chip in the key ?
when trying to sync, do you hold the fob next to the key when cranking ?(is there a transponder chip in the fob ?)
lock car,remove battery for 10 mins, unlock car ,key in position 2, aim fob at sensor for 10 seconds, put fob by key and crank ?
does removing the battery for 10 mins clear the fault codes ?
then try the above sync procedure and see if you get a new code 143 144 or 145 :y
if your sure you have not lost a transponder chip out the fob or key :-\ worth looking
or do you have a spare key and fob :-\
There is a ID40 chip in the key the fob doesn't have one and i can't see anywhere that looks like it would have one and no spare key or fob.
I'll remove the battery now and check for codes again
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I'm looking at wiring diagrams and to me it looks like the car shouldn't be cranking if it is immobilised
I can't clearly remember as it 10 years since I sold mine but I think you might be right about not cranking unless the immobiliser is satisfied :-\
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that is not how you test a crank sensor :o :-X
until you sort the remote to lock and unlock the doors, you have to assume the car is immobilized
so start there ;)
there under 1k, from memory around 800 to 900 ohms when iscolated ie unpluged, if yoh crank it you wont see it moving on the meter, if you remove it and use a knife or simular your just about dedect a few ohms fifference accross the hall effect sensor butas said its not by much.
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When I had my '95 Elite which had a separate lock/unlock fob from the key at odd times the remote wouldn't unlock the car so I'd unlock it with the key which gave me a couple of seconds or so to get the key into the ignition and turned before the alarm would fire off but it would always start using this method.So if this is an immobiliser issue I'd suggest it's because the chip in the key is not being recognised for some reason.Where was the car kept while not being used?Could damp have got to the fuse/relay boxes causing corrosion of the fuse/relay blades or the connections into which they plug?
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This sounds like a crank sensor issue to me but you can always pull the lid off the fuel pump relay and manually operate the contacts to check that the fuel pump runs.
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being the early Omega
does it have the fuel pump relay with the diode and 2 coils (as per omega A) ?
that takes a negative pulse from crank sensor to trigger firing
so if you have a duff one, you could loose spark and fuel IIRC
BUT
still think you need to resolve this non working remote fob / immobilizer
With the omega if you weren't using the fob to lock it you couldn't use your car with just the key?
when you last had it running , did you use the remote to open it ?
is there an ID40 chip in the key ?
when trying to sync, do you hold the fob next to the key when cranking ?(is there a transponder chip in the fob ?)
lock car,remove battery for 10 mins, unlock car ,key in position 2, aim fob at sensor for 10 seconds, put fob by key and crank ?
I really don't think the 1994-96 cars had a transponder chip. They didn't have the collar round the ignition switch that talks to the transponder chip in later cars.
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being the early Omega
does it have the fuel pump relay with the diode and 2 coils (as per omega A) ?
that takes a negative pulse from crank sensor to trigger firing
so if you have a duff one, you could loose spark and fuel IIRC
BUT
still think you need to resolve this non working remote fob / immobilizer
With the omega if you weren't using the fob to lock it you couldn't use your car with just the key?
when you last had it running , did you use the remote to open it ?
is there an ID40 chip in the key ?
when trying to sync, do you hold the fob next to the key when cranking ?(is there a transponder chip in the fob ?)
lock car,remove battery for 10 mins, unlock car ,key in position 2, aim fob at sensor for 10 seconds, put fob by key and crank ?
I really don't think the 1994-96 cars had a transponder chip. They didn't have the collar round the ignition switch that talks to the transponder chip in later cars.
Thats right. No chip, no collar around ignition switch on ir cars. Immobilizer is operated with the ir remote together with alarm and central locking.
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I've ordered a crank sensor which arrives on wednesday, I'll post an update after that is fitted. Thanks for all the help so far. :)
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I've ordered a crank sensor which arrives on wednesday, I'll post an update after that is fitted. Thanks for all the help so far. :)
Somebody didn't check the parts for sale, Hope it's a real sensor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VvkjGyX8/IMG-20190622-160034.jpg)
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To the OP, for future reference if you maintain your Omega using genuine parts by walking into the dealer, it will be a very expensive business. There is a cottage industry built up around running these cars on here, plus some on ebay that break Omegas. who have many personal recommendations. :y
I'm not aiming to be critical, just I was in a similar situation to you about 4 years ago, and many of the people on here were invaluable not only for advice but spare parts, too. You're very welcome, so please do make use of it. :)
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Code 144 is normal until the car is started, as I recall. 145 isn't, therefore suggests you have an immobiliser fault.
If you open the door with the key as opposed to the remote fob then normal is that the alarm will sound almost immediately. Doesn't prevent the engine being started and the alarm cancelled by using the correct key. So once again sounds like an immobiliser fault.
No spark or fuel suggests the immobiliser unless the relays (under the bonnet) are faulty.
The engine will still crank with a faulty crank position sensor but won't trigger the ignition relay. So no spark. So I suppose you could have a faulty sensor but that wouldn't affect the radio.
One key is marked with a red plastic inset. Maybe try the other key and see does that make any difference.
I would start by removing and fully charging the battery with a good charger. The time-out should reset the ECU. Also I wonder if the spring pin for position 1 of the ignition switch is stuck? Wiggle the key back and forth a bit to see if it frees up.
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I've put a new crankshaft sensor and it still won't start so like people previously said it's the immobiliser.
Now for the fob, I cannot no matter what I do get it to interact with the car. I've tried taking the battery out over night I've tried pairing it again. neither of those worked does anyone have any ideas for me to check. The omega is a lovely car and it'd be a shame to scrap it.
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I just read past comments. This car seems to have a chip in the key and I also have the IR fob so it's a cross over of their 2 systems?
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If it's been parked 3 years ,have you looked for evidence of rodent attack ? wiring looms are a feast for some wildlife :(
water ingress to modules ? checked ALL fuses relating to central locking,alarm etc
have you removed the powersounder ?
do you know the history of the car :-\ has the central locking ecu ,key been replaced in the past ?
if it has an ID40 chip in key ,does it have the ring pick up round the ignition barrel :-\
I assume that after clearing codes by removing the battery, you get immobilizer codes back when you try to start ? what code ?
lots of questions I know ::) just trying to think what the issue is :y
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I cant get mine to lock with the fob, I just tried putting the key in the ignition and holding the lock button down while I point it at the sensor and I got nothing
do you have to turn the key to accessory position (lights on dash but engine not running) to sync the fob :-\
like on astra,vectra etc
Perhaps you're not quick enough.
According to the 1995 edition owner's manual you need to point the remote fob at the sensor (by the interior light / rear view mirror) and press the lock button within 30 secs of ignition key being turned to position 2. The remote fob needs to be within eight inches of the sensor. The interior light light should flash once to indicate that the remote is synced. Not mentioned but perhaps try and do it with the doors closed.
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I hope it's warm and dry in Essex.
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It is. :y :)
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If it's been parked 3 years ,have you looked for evidence of rodent attack ? wiring looms are a feast for some wildlife :(
water ingress to modules ? checked ALL fuses relating to central locking,alarm etc
have you removed the powersounder ?
do you know the history of the car :-\ has the central locking ecu ,key been replaced in the past ?
if it has an ID40 chip in key ,does it have the ring pick up round the ignition barrel :-\
I assume that after clearing codes by removing the battery, you get immobilizer codes back when you try to start ? what code ?
lots of questions I know ::) just trying to think what the issue is :y
I think it is possible something is water damaged, I have never made the alarm activate so i think it might be broken. And for water damage a year or so ago where the HT lead meets the spark plug had a big puddle of water in there which i emptied out and let dry. There is no sign of water on anything electrical near the fuse box. I don't know what a ring pickup thing is supposed to look like but there is a black rectangular thing attached to the ignition barrel.
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Not sure on the 95 Immobilizer workings, but on the later ones once you had a Immobilizer lock out period (ie wont start) you had to go through a reset motion in order to try again and get it to start, might be worth trying this.
Example, you have 2 keys, one knowingly has a Transponder Chip inside, the second one doesnt or its the wrong Chip Code (but you keep it as a spare) you unlock car put the Key, doesnt start, youve put the wrong Key in (the second key), so you realise silly me put the wrong key in, so you now put the correct key and try it, still wont start, reason is its still locked up mode. to reset it ready for the correct, 1, remove Key, 2, open and close Door, 3, Lock the Door, unlock door, 4 Open Door and Key in (correct one) and start.
Possibly unplugging the Main ECU or removing the Battery for a while should have the same effect but its obviously easier to do the door thing.
The above may help you, but as said, Not sure about the early ones.
Worst case the early ones could have the Imobilizer disabled with and Tech 2 and someone who knows what there doing, guessing your need the Car Pass as well, so all is not lost.
On the Crank Sensor front, still not convinced it wasnt faulty, I had a couple now where theyve been fine but Parked Up for a while and refuse to start due to Crank Sensor issue, and it doesnt always throw a CS Issue Code untill later on or when youve finally got it going again.
Where did you get the Crank Sensor from? anything other than walking into a VX Parts to get one could give issues (did you measure it was the new one under 1K ohms?, as said there about 900 ohms and will read about +- 10 ohms briefly wih a metallic knife etc on the sensor).
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Not sure on the 95 Immobilizer workings, but on the later ones once you had a Immobilizer lock out period (ie wont start) you had to go through a reset motion in order to try again and get it to start, might be worth trying this.
Example, you have 2 keys, one knowingly has a Transponder Chip inside, the second one doesnt or its the wrong Chip Code (but you keep it as a spare) you unlock car put the Key, doesnt start, youve put the wrong Key in (the second key), so you realise silly me put the wrong key in, so you now put the correct key and try it, still wont start, reason is its still locked up mode. to reset it ready for the correct, 1, remove Key, 2, open and close Door, 3, Lock the Door, unlock door, 4 Open Door and Key in (correct one) and start.
Possibly unplugging the Main ECU or removing the Battery for a while should have the same effect but its obviously easier to do the door thing.
The above may help you, but as said, Not sure about the early ones.
Worst case the early ones could have the Imobilizer disabled with and Tech 2 and someone who knows what there doing, guessing your need the Car Pass as well, so all is not lost.
On the Crank Sensor front, still not convinced it wasnt faulty, I had a couple now where theyve been fine but Parked Up for a while and refuse to start due to Crank Sensor issue, and it doesnt always throw a CS Issue Code untill later on or when youve finally got it going again.
Where did you get the Crank Sensor from? anything other than walking into a VX Parts to get one could give issues (did you measure it was the new one under 1K ohms?, as said there about 900 ohms and will read about +- 10 ohms briefly wih a metallic knife etc on the sensor).
The cranksensor i got on ebay it was just a cheap one to see if the car would start then i was going to pick up a genuine vx one. and i did test it and it read 852 ohms. The car has had the battery taken out for a while quite a few times since it wouldn't start so i'll try unplugging the main ecu.
The key thing I dont have a spare just 1 key that had worked every single time before
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Not sure on the 95 Immobilizer workings, but on the later ones once you had a Immobilizer lock out period (ie wont start) you had to go through a reset motion in order to try again and get it to start, might be worth trying this.
Example, you have 2 keys, one knowingly has a Transponder Chip inside, the second one doesnt or its the wrong Chip Code (but you keep it as a spare) you unlock car put the Key, doesnt start, youve put the wrong Key in (the second key), so you realise silly me put the wrong key in, so you now put the correct key and try it, still wont start, reason is its still locked up mode. to reset it ready for the correct, 1, remove Key, 2, open and close Door, 3, Lock the Door, unlock door, 4 Open Door and Key in (correct one) and start.
Possibly unplugging the Main ECU or removing the Battery for a while should have the same effect but its obviously easier to do the door thing.
The above may help you, but as said, Not sure about the early ones.
Worst case the early ones could have the Imobilizer disabled with and Tech 2 and someone who knows what there doing, guessing your need the Car Pass as well, so all is not lost.
On the Crank Sensor front, still not convinced it wasnt faulty, I had a couple now where theyve been fine but Parked Up for a while and refuse to start due to Crank Sensor issue, and it doesnt always throw a CS Issue Code untill later on or when youve finally got it going again.
Where did you get the Crank Sensor from? anything other than walking into a VX Parts to get one could give issues (did you measure it was the new one under 1K ohms?, as said there about 900 ohms and will read about +- 10 ohms briefly wih a metallic knife etc on the sensor).
The cranksensor i got on ebay it was just a cheap one to see if the car would start then i was going to pick up a genuine vx one. and i did test it and it read 852 ohms. The car has had the battery taken out for a while quite a few times since it wouldn't start so i'll try unplugging the main ecu.
The key thing I dont have a spare just 1 key that had worked every single time before
Yea the Spare Key thing was just as an example, maybe I explained it wrong, point being, is once you have a Transponder / Immobilizer No Start, you need to do the Reset thing before attempting to start it again , well at least on the later Models.
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I think it is possible something is water damaged, I have never made the alarm activate so i think it might be broken. And for water damage a year or so ago where the HT lead meets the spark plug had a big puddle of water in there which i emptied out and let dry. There is no sign of water on anything electrical near the fuse box. I don't know what a ring pickup thing is supposed to look like but there is a black rectangular thing attached to the ignition barrel.
Do you mean that the alarm never worked at all? Or only since the recent non-start issue arose?
AIUI not all early models had the alarm fitted as standard, it was optional on some. But they all have an immobiliser as standard. So perhaps yours has no alarm.
The key is described as an immobiliser key so it must have the ID chip in it as opposed to the separate fob. This might be an different chip than the later ID-40 (perhaps ID-33?), not sure about that. However assuming it works the same way as the newer keys then disconnecting the battery does not de-pair the key from the car.
According to the manual, if your car does have an alarm then it can be armed by pressing the close button on the remote fob, assuming it's synced. Yours apparently isn't. The alarm can also be armed using the key in the driver's door. Turn anti-clockwise to position to approx 30º before vertical. Should be just before the point where you feel resistance. To deactivate turn the key clockwise to 30º past vertical.
AIUI if the key is incorrect then the EML should flash when you try and start the car, that indicates that the immobiliser has not disengaged. Does your EML flash?
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I think it is possible something is water damaged, I have never made the alarm activate so i think it might be broken. And for water damage a year or so ago where the HT lead meets the spark plug had a big puddle of water in there which i emptied out and let dry. There is no sign of water on anything electrical near the fuse box. I don't know what a ring pickup thing is supposed to look like but there is a black rectangular thing attached to the ignition barrel.
Do you mean that the alarm never worked at all? Or only since the recent non-start issue arose?
AIUI not all early models had the alarm fitted as standard, it was optional on some. But they all have an immobiliser as standard. So perhaps yours has no alarm.
The key is described as an immobiliser key so it must have the ID chip in it as opposed to the separate fob. This might be an different chip than the later ID-40 (perhaps ID-33?), not sure about that. However assuming it works the same way as the newer keys then disconnecting the battery does not de-pair the key from the car.
According to the manual, if your car does have an alarm then it can be armed by pressing the close button on the remote fob, assuming it's synced. Yours apparently isn't. The alarm can also be armed using the key in the driver's door. Turn anti-clockwise to position to approx 30º before vertical. Should be just before the point where you feel resistance. To deactivate turn the key clockwise to 30º past vertical.
AIUI if the key is incorrect then the EML should flash when you try and start the car, that indicates that the immobiliser has not disengaged. Does your EML flash?
The alarm used to work, it doesn't since the non-start issue. The eml does not flash when I crank the car, it goes off completely.
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Are you positive you have fitted the correct crank sensor?
There are three different but electrically incompatible crank sensors for V6 Omegas.
The earliest has a rectangular plug with straight sides. Might have been on early 2.5 & 3.0 V6. Yours is borderline for the changeover
The two later versions have oval sides on the plug.
One of the later types is 540-550Ω (maybe Delphi) and the other is 850-900Ω and was made by Bosch. Since they both have the same plug they both will appear to fit. However they are not interchangeable. I think the 540Ω was only used on 2.5, never on 2.6 3.0 or 3.2 which use the Bosch. However some 2.5 V6s use the Bosch version. Must depend on the engine number.
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Are you positive you have fitted the correct crank sensor?
There are three different but electrically incompatible crank sensors for V6 Omegas.
The earliest has a rectangular plug with straight sides. Might have been on early 2.5 & 3.0 V6. Yours is borderline for the changeover
The two later versions have oval sides on the plug.
One of the later types is 540-550Ω (maybe Delphi) and the other is 850-900Ω and was made by Bosch. Since they both have the same plug they both will appear to fit. However they are not interchangeable. I think the 540Ω was only used on 2.5, never on 2.6 3.0 or 3.2 which use the Bosch. However some 2.5 V6s use the Bosch version. Must depend on the engine number.
I got the part number off of my old one and bought a new one with the same part number and the plug looked the same
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Do you still get fault code 145 and does it still change to 144 after one minute?
Are there any other fault codes? I would have thought that you should see '31 - No Engine RPM Signal', if the ignition is on. Starting normally clears it (perhaps it is only necessary to crank the engine?).
It sounds to me that the transponder receiver is not accepting your key. And since cranking does not produce a flashing EML then it also looks like the reader is not working at all. As I hazily recall, the receiver is a, flimsy looking, square black box visible underneath the ignition key barrel, when you remove the cowl.
I suspect that you need to get somebody with a Tech-2 to check what's happening. If you try to get a new key with blank transponder then, in any event that will have to be programmed to the car using Tech-2. And you will need the code from the car pass to do that.
Also it seems that either your key fob is defective. Or the receiver by the courtesy light is duff. But I don't think that would disable the immobiliser function.
Try unplugging the wiring from the immobiliser receiver and check for corrosion. Clean the terminals with some isopropyl alcohol. Then plug it back in, perhaps breaking and reconnecting might fix it.
I assume you've checked all the fuses? Especially 12, 13 & 14. And double checked the relay you changed?
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Do you still get fault code 145 and does it still change to 144 after one minute?
Are there any other fault codes? I would have thought that you should see '31 - No Engine RPM Signal', if the ignition is on. Starting normally clears it (perhaps it is only necessary to crank the engine?).
It sounds to me that the transponder receiver is not accepting your key. And since cranking does not produce a flashing EML then it also looks like the reader is not working at all. As I hazily recall, the receiver is a, flimsy looking, square black box visible underneath the ignition key barrel, when you remove the cowl.
I suspect that you need to get somebody with a Tech-2 to check what's happening. If you try to get a new key with blank transponder then, in any event that will have to be programmed to the car using Tech-2. And you will need the code from the car pass to do that.
Also it seems that either your key fob is defective. Or the receiver by the courtesy light is duff. But I don't think that would disable the immobiliser function.
Try unplugging the wiring from the immobiliser receiver and check for corrosion. Clean the terminals with some isopropyl alcohol. Then plug it back in, perhaps breaking and reconnecting might fix it.
I assume you've checked all the fuses? Especially 12, 13 & 14. And double checked the relay you changed?
I've checked all the fuses and the relay I changed the only codes I get are the 145 to begin with which eventually changes to 144, no other codes. Where is the immobiliser receiver located and I'll give unplugging a shot.
Thanks
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Take off the plastic cowling shell just behind the steering wheel. It's a flat rectangular or square shaped plastic box or housing now visible immediately below the ignition key barrel. Maybe credit card sized and about 8mm thick. On the car I had I think it was black. It was several years ago.
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Got an ecu, immobiliser ring and 2 key's n remotes here from an N reg 2.5 V6
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Got an ecu, immobiliser ring and 2 key's n remotes here from an N reg 2.5 V6
/\ /\ This would be a good next step to rule out imob issues and a 10 min job. :y
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Got an ecu, immobiliser ring and 2 key's n remotes here from an N reg 2.5 V6
/\ /\ This would be a good next step to rule out imob issues and a 10 min job. :y
94-96 cars didn't have an immobiliser ring.
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Got an ecu, immobiliser ring and 2 key's n remotes here from an N reg 2.5 V6
/\ /\ This would be a good next step to rule out imob issues and a 10 min job. :y
94-96 cars didn't have an immobiliser ring.
Then someone at the factory must have shoved something that look awfully like one round the ignition of the 96 car I broke by mistake
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Got an ecu, immobiliser ring and 2 key's n remotes here from an N reg 2.5 V6
/\ /\ This would be a good next step to rule out imob issues and a 10 min job. :y
94-96 cars didn't have an immobiliser ring.
Then someone at the factory must have shoved something that look awfully like one round the ignition of the 96 car I broke by mistake
So you broke a 96-2000 model?
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So Matteomart should remove the cowling from his car and check if he has a rectangular box under the ignition barrel. It is attached to the ring that forms the ignition barrel housing and has a connector plugged in with the wires in a row. Unplug, clean the terminals and try it again. If no joy then use the parts offered by omegod.
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If the car has the old type ir remote that you have to aim at the little dome in the roof with a Max range of 1-2metres it wont have any chip or magical box around the ignition barrel. If it has the newer type radio control remote it will have chip and little box of tricks.
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The receiver in the roof is for the alarm/remote locking fob, where fitted. Not the immobiliser. That's done with a chip in the key. There must be a receiver for it somewhere. My 1996 CDX had a black box under the ignition barrel. And separate 2 button fobs for the remote.
It will take only a couple of minutes to remove the cowl and check.
And one of my keys had a distinct red insert. Suggests to me that there is/was some difference between the two keys supplied as standard. I wonder if omegod's keys are the same?
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@Matteomart?
Does your fob look like this one?
The photo was posted by member 'addy' in this thread (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=143673.0) on 8th Oct 2018. Concerns a 1995 Omega. It's mentioned that the key has an immobiliser transponder chip.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/Remingtonarmy/s-l300.jpg)
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My fob looks like this https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjKkKe28JPjAhVmxoUKHVjeDLYQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Foldsite.omegaowners.com%2Fforum%2FYaBB.pl%3Fnum%3D1255721218&psig=AOvVaw04GlxBbWSE4qu0ewR5c8j7&ust=1562075922091166 and i have a separate key for the ignition that doesn't have buttons on it.
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You will or should have the Imob set up in your Car (Black Box and Ring around Ing. Barrel), unless some one has removed it and reprogrammed the ECO with a Tech 2 (early ones only)
Some really early Omegas Models (Post Carlton) may have had no Imob fitted, but fairly sure this was only in the first Production Year Run (94) and all Models would have got sorted from around 1995 onwards
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He will have an immobilizer but he wont have a chip in the key or a ring/box around the ignition switch. He has an infrared system and immobilizer functioneality is handled by the central locking ecu. Immobilizer on the 94-95 infrared cars can only be switched of by the infrared signal from the fob. Immobilizer is activated by locking car with the fob OR by locking the car with the key in the door lock. Only unlocking with the fob will release the immobilizer though. However if the immobilizer on these early cars are active and preventing engine starting the little red light in the running man button should Flash. What dont make sense to me is that you have immobilizer codes but the engine still cranks. Immobilizer should prevent the engine from cranking.
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Hi, I've found a plug in the relay box that isn't plugged into anything and another one that comes from under the air filter that isn't plugged in.
Can some teach me how to post pictures please too. I think if I could send some pictures it will be a lot easier for people yo know what I mean.
Thanks
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Hi, I've found a plug in the relay box that isn't plugged into anything and another one that comes from under the air filter that isn't plugged in.
Can some teach me how to post pictures please too. I think if I could send some pictures it will be a lot easier for people yo know what I mean.
Thanks
I couldn't find anywhere the plug went in the relay box everything seems to have wires already in there.
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Hi, I've found a plug in the relay box that isn't plugged into anything and another one that comes from under the air filter that isn't plugged in.
Can some teach me how to post pictures please too. I think if I could send some pictures it will be a lot easier for people yo know what I mean.
Thanks
there is a guide to putting photo's on OOF :y
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=53182.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=53182.0)
I couldn't find anywhere the plug went in the relay box everything seems to have wires already in there.
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https://gyazo.com/cd24a956cf1506ad61d700203144261e (https://gyazo.com/cd24a956cf1506ad61d700203144261e)
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Nothing looked wrong with the ecu visually is there anyway i can test it without having to buy all new parts?
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Do the plugs fit each other?
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Do the plugs fit each other?
All the parts in the car are the factory fitted ones so yeah they fit. Just having issues getting the car running and someone suggested that it could be the immobiliser ecu.
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and the key definitely has this chip in
iD40
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lPkAAOSwPIhaOT9~/s-l640.png)
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Do the plugs fit each other?
All the parts in the car are the factory fitted ones so yeah they fit. Just having issues getting the car running and someone suggested that it could be the immobiliser ecu.
That isn't what I asked. You said you had two unconnected plugs. Do these plugs match each other?
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Do the plugs fit each other?
All the parts in the car are the factory fitted ones so yeah they fit. Just having issues getting the car running and someone suggested that it could be the immobiliser ecu.
That isn't what I asked. You said you had two unconnected plugs. Do these plugs match each other?
The key has the chip and the plugs are on opposite sides of the car so I'm don't think they're related to eachother
Thanks
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:y
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I have to admit i was wrong earlier. I saw you had an ir remote and was shure none of those had chips. But i see you have that. I have a 94 and an early 95 Omega and neither of those have the chip or the black box under the ignition barrel.
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The photo shows the same arrangement as on my old '96 Omega. Same black box under the ignition. It has a collar on top that acts as a housing/pickup for the ignition barrel. Did you try unplugging the connector and cleaning the contacts with some pure isopropanal (isopropyl alcohol)?
It also seems that there is a fault with Omegas (https://workshop-manuals.com/vauxhall/omega-b/c__body_equipment/fittings_hinges_locks/safety_key/technical_service_bulletins/inoperative_totally_partially/infrared_remote_control/) whereby "The infrared remote control does not function at times, even after replacement of the batteries, making deactivation of the immobiliser impossible.". The solution is to program a newer unaffected remote to the car. This requires a TECH interface.
Vehicles affected have a VIN number between 'W0Lnnnnnn R1 000001' and 'WOLnnnnnn S1 072158'. R or S are the 10th characters of the VIN and represent the model year spec the car was built to. R=1994 and S=1995. T=1996 and would be unaffected. Does your car fall within the affected range? Although it's hard to imagine the car got to this age without the problem coming to light.
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The photo shows the same arrangement as on my old '96 Omega. Same black box under the ignition. It has a collar on top that acts as a housing/pickup for the ignition barrel. Did you try unplugging the connector and cleaning the contacts with some pure isopropanal (isopropyl alcohol)?
It also seems that there is a fault with Omegas (https://workshop-manuals.com/vauxhall/omega-b/c__body_equipment/fittings_hinges_locks/safety_key/technical_service_bulletins/inoperative_totally_partially/infrared_remote_control/) whereby "The infrared remote control does not function at times, even after replacement of the batteries, making deactivation of the immobiliser impossible.". The solution is to program a newer unaffected remote to the car. This requires a TECH interface.
Vehicles affected have a VIN number between 'W0Lnnnnnn R1 000001' and 'WOLnnnnnn S1 072158'. R or S are the 10th characters of the VIN and represent the model year spec the car was built to. R=1994 and S=1995. T=1996 and would be unaffected. Does your car fall within the affected range? Although it's hard to imagine the car got to this age without the problem coming to light.
Mine is S1233779 so that is outside of the range if i'm not mistaken?
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I've just cleaned the pins for the immobiliser ecu and still nothing. I tried unplugging it and when i do that the EML flashes like it is supposed to but when i plug it back in it behaves as it should but still no spark or fuel is being pumped.
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If I'm not wrong - if the immobiliser isn't flashing, then the immobiliser is disarmed .. and the problem is elsewhere, no?
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If I'm not wrong - if the immobiliser isn't flashing, then the immobiliser is disarmed .. and the problem is elsewhere, no?
Yup. :y
Let's just say I had a similar problem on my last mfl, after hours of kicking shouting and tech2, which didn't find the fault it turned out to be very simple, and was cheap......
One of the big fuses, in the auxiliary box on top of the battery..
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If I'm not wrong - if the immobiliser isn't flashing, then the immobiliser is disarmed .. and the problem is elsewhere, no?
Yup. :y
Let's just say I had a similar problem on my last mfl, after hours of kicking shouting and tech2, which didn't find the fault it turned out to be very simple, and was cheap......
One of the big fuses, in the auxiliary box on top of the battery..
Were you getting the wrong immobiliser signal code?
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If I'm not wrong - if the immobiliser isn't flashing, then the immobiliser is disarmed .. and the problem is elsewhere, no?
Yup. :y
Let's just say I had a similar problem on my last mfl, after hours of kicking shouting and tech2, which didn't find the fault it turned out to be very simple, and was cheap......
One of the big fuses, in the auxiliary box on top of the battery..
Were you getting the wrong immobiliser signal code?
More codes than bletchley park
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If I'm not wrong - if the immobiliser isn't flashing, then the immobiliser is disarmed .. and the problem is elsewhere, no?
Yup. :y
Let's just say I had a similar problem on my last mfl, after hours of kicking shouting and tech2, which didn't find the fault it turned out to be very simple, and was cheap......
One of the big fuses, in the auxiliary box on top of the battery..
Were you getting the wrong immobiliser signal code?
More codes than bletchley park
Mine is a 95 so i don't have the fuse box over the battery :-\
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I've just cleaned the pins for the immobiliser ecu and still nothing. I tried unplugging it and when i do that the EML flashes like it is supposed to but when i plug it back in it behaves as it should but still no spark or fuel is being pumped.
If I'm not wrong - if the immobiliser isn't flashing, then the immobiliser is disarmed .. and the problem is elsewhere, no?
Seems to me that you've confirmed that there is life in the immobiliser receiver.
AIUI if the chip in the key can't be read at all or is incorrect (not programmed ) for the car or if the immobiliser is faulty (which you've simulated) then the EML light will flash. If the light goes out and stays out, then the key and chip are correct and have been read.
However there remains the question of whether a failure to properly disengage the alarm with the remote fob also prevents deactivation of the immobiliser on earlier cars with IR remotes. I suspect it does. And it might be that your alarm is faulty (as opposed to the known problem with early IR fobs).
It would be good to get your alarm working and eliminated as the source of the problem.
Also are you positive that the fuel pump relay you replaced is the correct one and is working?
AIUI it's possible to delete the immobiliser block on early cars using a Tech I/IA/II interface. Very likely you will need the car pass code. Do you have that? Else you would have to get it from Vauxhall at an expensive fee. Plus I don't know if deleting the immobiliser is actually possible if it's not properly deactivated.
Or you could try and obtain a spare remote and program that to the car. You would still need to have that programmed with a Tech II interface etc. And it might not achieve anything if it's the alarm or the receiver in the roof that's faulty.
Member omegod has offered you an ECU, immobiliser ring and 2 keys with remotes. I think the best thing would be to fit the ECU and immobiliser receiver ring to your car. It should be an easy job. Your key chip, assuming it's working, won't match omegod's receiver so you'll have to swap one of the transceiver chips into your key as omegod's keys wont fit, unless he'e giving you a barrel as well?
That might get you going if the alarm is not blocking the immobiliser. You'll still need to get omegod' remotes programmed to the car with a Tech I/II, to use them.
Where are you in Essex? You really need a kindly member with the Tech kit to pay a visit and have a look at the car.
Got an ecu, immobiliser ring and 2 key's n remotes here from an N reg 2.5 V6