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[zYx]

Hi all and happy new year.

I've recently been having problems with my omega. Since I used that weird eco 95 octane petrol in Germany my engine management light kept coming on since I'm back in UK.

Since august I've been disconnecting the battery to remove the engine light, maybe 3-4 times all together. Just before xmas the engine stopped running correctly and sounds like only half of the cylinders are working.

You know the codes and here's the video. You can skip to the end to hear the engine.

http://youtu.be/R0V7GAIaMWw

I'd be grateful for an advise.

Regards,
M.

[05omegav6]

When were the plugs last changed?

Any sign of oil/water in the plug wells?

First off, new plugs, coil packs if any significant rusting under them, then two c of Wynns Petrol system cleaner and a full tank of Shell Vpower

[jonny2112]

When were the plugs last changed?

Any sign of oil/water in the plug wells?

First off, new plugs, coil packs if any significant rusting under them, then two c of Wynns Petrol system cleaner and a full tank of Shell Vpower

Too slow!! What al said 
Must be coil pack or plug related surely?

[zYx]

I owed it since dec 2007 and never had any problems with plugs or coils until now by the look of it.

Are you suggesting the whole lot to be replaced? What's the safest and cheapest place to get it all?

There is no visible rust or oil leaks around coils.

[chrisgixer]

No cylinder 4...?

I got missfires on all cylinders when it was running rich on lpg. Missfire doesn't always mean ignition. ...although there's no fuel trim code.

But as said, got to start with removing coil pacs for clues.

Does the scuttle leak? Btw? Any water marks on the cam covers around the cp. is the scuttle foam wet?

[05omegav6]

I owed it since dec 2007 and never had any problems with plugs or coils until now by the look of it.

Are you suggesting the whole lot to be replaced? What's the safest and cheapest place to get it all?

There is no visible rust or oil leaks around coils.

Plugs from VX if you get on with your local dealer/have trade club access. I would say quads, others would disagree.
Coil pack known good used ok, readily available here. If new must be genuine Bosch, any factor,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1X-GENUINE-BOSCH-IGNITION-MODULE-COIL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-2-6-3-2-00-03-SIGNUM-3-2-/370966897296?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AOmega+B&hash=item565f59a290 £211 delivered.
Or here...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saturn-Vue-L-Series-Cadillac-Catera-CTS-V6-Ignition-Coil-Pack-Pair-Set-/310814479361?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ACadillac%7CModel%3ACatera&hash=item485dfc9401&vxp=mtr £122 delivered.

Both are pairs of brand new coilpacks, and show, as ever that it pays to shop around...

Wynns petrol treatment is readily available from factors/halfrods and some garages

[Marks DTM Calib]

To many codes on to many cylinders to be pointing at plugs or coil pack, you would expect one or two cylinders, not five.

I would be wanting to see some live data results including block learn values, and MAF readings before changing anything. 

[Gaffers]

To many codes on to many cylinders to be pointing at plugs or coil pack, you would expect one or two cylinders, not five.

Unless they are all practising their backstroke together

[zYx]

No cylinder 4...?

I got missfires on all cylinders when it was running rich on lpg. Missfire doesn't always mean ignition. ...although there's no fuel trim code.

But as said, got to start with removing coil pacs for clues.

Does the scuttle leak? Btw? Any water marks on the cam covers around the cp. is the scuttle foam wet?

As far as I'm concerned there is no leak. I do open the bonnet sometimes Cambelt is new, but squeaky as hell when cold...

I owed it since dec 2007 and never had any problems with plugs or coils until now by the look of it.

Are you suggesting the whole lot to be replaced? What's the safest and cheapest place to get it all?

There is no visible rust or oil leaks around coils.

Plugs from VX if you get on with your local dealer/have trade club access. I would say quads, others would disagree.
Coil pack known good used ok, readily available here. If new must be genuine Bosch, any factor,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1X-GENUINE-BOSCH-IGNITION-MODULE-COIL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-2-6-3-2-00-03-SIGNUM-3-2-/370966897296?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AOmega+B&hash=item565f59a290 £211 delivered.
Or here...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saturn-Vue-L-Series-Cadillac-Catera-CTS-V6-Ignition-Coil-Pack-Pair-Set-/310814479361?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ACadillac%7CModel%3ACatera&hash=item485dfc9401&vxp=mtr £122 delivered.

Both are pairs of brand new coilpacks, and show, as ever that it pays to shop around...

Wynns petrol treatment is readily available from factors/halfrods and some garages

Now that's interesting. I was wondering when I'm gonna have to buy it... I think now might be the time :]

To many codes on to many cylinders to be pointing at plugs or coil pack, you would expect one or two cylinders, not five.

I would be wanting to see some live data results including block learn values, and MAF readings before changing anything. 

On top of this, my neighbor's tools shows this:
P0047 and P1625 and now I'm not sure if his "tool" is any good with Omega, but I thought it's worth sharing.

[05omegav6]

Ideally the plugs should be changed at 40k

Can't help with additional codes, but if you suspect crappy fuel is to blame, the fuel cleaner and V power can only help

[zYx]

Ok so the coils from the second eBay link above, the ones from USA will fit my Y32SE?
It's significantly cheaper than uk prices :|

The crappy fuel is probably the cause of all this.

Could it be anything to do with co2 sensors by any chance?

[Marks DTM Calib]

Again, given we have codes which are affecting 5 out 6 cylidners over two banks, the process of investigation needs to look at what common items affect both banks.

Hence plugs and coil packs are a 'red herring' in my opinion at this stage and its better to pin point the fault rather than swap and change items which brings further unknowns into the equation.

Does your neighbours reader support live data reading?

P0047 is a generic OBD2 boost sensor fault code (so an invalid code in this application so maybe reader issue)
P1625 is a generic OBD2 ABS communication error

[05omegav6]

Regarding your issue, pay attention to Marks input

Regarding the coil packs, the last Cateras were also DBW, so will fit 2.6, 3.0(US), and 3.2

[zYx]

That device supports live data, however it shows nothing when connected to my omega other than those two error codes.

[chrisgixer]

That device supports live data, however it shows nothing when connected to my omega other than those two error codes.

Pedal trick is notably more reliable than some code readers. I'd ignore the code reader here tbh.

Did the car refuse to start In the video? It didn't sound good at the end.

Its worth further investigation before buying parts IMO, you need a bit more info to go on. (As as Mark Dtm says.)

[zYx]

That device supports live data, however it shows nothing when connected to my omega other than those two error codes.

Pedal trick is notably more reliable than some code readers. I'd ignore the code reader here tbh.

Did the car refuse to start In the video? It didn't sound good at the end.

Its worth further investigation before buying parts IMO, you need a bit more info to go on. (As as Mark Dtm says.)

The car starts fine, no issues at all. It just runs like it was going to explode any minute. This actually happened when I was driving once before. It was fine after I switched the engine off and on. This time it also happened when I was driving, this is how I got home, about couple of miles, but a simple off/on didn't help and now it runs like it.

When I bought the car I don't think those coils were even replaced since the card left the factory and I certainly didn't do it. I'm the second owner.

I don't have a problem getting new parts, especially when it comes to plug business only because I know it was never replaced, so perhaps now is the time.

What else could be wrong? The MAF sensor is rather fine as I replaced it (with genuine bosch) about three years ago and I am aware what kind of behaviour to expect when it fails, so I believe the MAF is OK.

The mileage is about 95k.

Anyway, what do these codes actually mean? There's 6 codes, but 0304 missing?

[chrisgixer]

...any missfire, once detected by the ecu will cause that cylinder to shut down on the Dbw engines.

This is then reset on restart. And the engine light then goes out. All normal missfire behaviour on Dbw engine.

Question is, what's the cause?

On a different slant, it sounds like the plugs at least may be passed there service life? What's the history/mileage/since in the plugs where last changed?
How many miles on the car?

[05omegav6]

So plugs are potentially 11 years old

I would probably replace them regardless tbh... Even if they're not the actual cause, they won't be helping

The official line is 80k/8 years, but the suggested wisdom here is 40k/4years for quads and half that for twins

Presumably the oil and filters have been changed a few times

[zYx]

...any missfire, once detected by the ecu will cause that cylinder to shut down on the Dbw engines.

This is then reset on restart. And the engine light then goes out. All normal missfire behaviour on Dbw engine.

Question is, what's the cause?

On a different slant, it sounds like the plugs at least may be passed there service life? What's the history/mileage/since in the plugs where last changed?
How many miles on the car?

I added/edited some additional info above. The car has about 95k and like I said I didn't replace any plugs since I owed it (6 years) and I don't believe this was done prior to me owning this car either.

I try to look after my car as much as I can I just never did the plugs as it appeared to be fine.

So plugs are potentially 11 years old

I would probably replace them regardless tbh... Even if they're not the actual cause, they won't be helping

The official line is 80k/8 years, but the suggested wisdom here is 40k/4years for quads and half that for twins

Presumably the oil and filters have been changed a few times

Yes, quite possible, 11 years. Don't know for sure.

The oil/filters and everything else was done regularly, just not plugs.  I dont like touching things when they work fine :> I understand the plugs should be changes every so often, but the engine was running so nice.

[chrisgixer]

0300 is random multiple missfire.

0301 is misfire on pot 1
0302 is misfire on pot 2

And so on.

So you have misfires on every cylinder except pot 4. Although it takes a considerable miss for the ecu to detect it, so odds are 4 is affected too.

If the plugs are beyond service life, they need changing anyway. Inspect the coils then. See how you go?

[zYx]

0300 is random multiple missfire.

0301 is misfire on pot 1
0302 is misfire on pot 2

And so on.

So you have misfires on every cylinder except pot 4. Although it takes a considerable miss for the ecu to detect it, so odds are 4 is affected too.

If the plugs are beyond service life, they need changing anyway. Inspect the coils then. See how you go?

Oh I see, so the coils could still be fine?

You see, when I first spotted that engine light I asked my neighbour for his reader and this is when it showed me P0047 and P1625 codes for the first time. I didn't bother checking the pedal trick then and those error codes mislead me... so I was driving like this for several weeks....

[Marks DTM Calib]

I would do NOTHING until you have fixed the fault, you could fit coil packs and plugs, have an issue with the new parts and create a deeper hole.....

New parts and uneccassary work adds further unknowns to the mix 

[05omegav6]

Mark, would removing the plugs for inspection not show anything, or does the fact it's misfiring instantly mask everything else? 

[chrisgixer]

I would do NOTHING until you have fixed the fault, you could fit coil packs and plugs, have an issue with the new parts and create a deeper hole.....

New parts and uneccassary work adds further unknowns to the mix 

Masters cheating again, he has tech 2

(He's not usually wrong though)

[mrgreen]

could it have slipped a tooth on the cam belt? when you start it at night and look under the bonnet can you see anything shorting out under there, i run my 2.2 on crappy 95 austrian fuel and have never had a problem, i would be suprised if the gas caused this.

[zYx]

Finally the plugs arrived and as I took one of the coils out I saw this:
https://copy.com/PT7nFltmmGur

Do you think there is any point putting it back together or should I just go and get new coils?

The old spark plugs didn't look good either.

[05omegav6]

That goes along way to explaining the misfire on cylinders 1 and 2...

As a rule of thumb, slight rusting is ok, cracking of the plastic casing is a sure sign of significant rusting

Personally, I would replace them Order the ones I linked to from the States, and temporarily refit those ones, unless you don't need the car, in which case, ensure the plug wells are covered and leave them out. Be sure to give the coilpack plugs on the loom a good squirt of WD40 now, and when you fit the new coilpacks to ensure no moisture in them as well

[zYx]

I've put it together and the engine is still not running fine. I checked the error codes and now it reads 0300, 0305 and 0306. When looking at the exhaust theres blue smoke coming out the left pipe cylinders 2-4-6, not too much, but it was noticeable.

I added a few more pics: https://copy.com/PT7nFltmmGur

[Gaffers]

That coil looks suspect and the plugs are showing signs of significant rust.  Looks like water has gotten to the coil and plugs at some point and there is evidence of a small oil leak starting which would suggest the breathers starting to clog up and need cleaning.  The water is most likely from a leaking scuttle so that needs sorting before anything else.

[zYx]

I got a tree above my car at home and at work. I keep having to clean this mess. It's very annoying.

I found those on ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321055804241 and http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321055804227 £168 UK. Customs can be pain in the arse... but then the import charges are already calculated here. Did anyone order from an auction like that? Dows it guarantee you won't have to pay here in UK? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310814479361

I don't really need a car so I'm no in rush. I just hope this is nothing serious.

[Entwood]

When my coil pack failed it didn't look as bad as yours !! IMHO as soon as the cracking has any sign of rust alongside it the coil pack is FUBAR. I needed one in a hurry so purchased a pair from VX .. instantly transformed the car .. I changed both on the simple grounds that they were of the same age, and believed to be the originals .. 130,000 and 13 years old ..

[zYx]

Well, the next step here is to get the new coil pack. I can get those BOSCH ones for £168 fairly quickly. £50 more than the ones from States, but I can't be bothered waiting anymore.. Thank you for you finding anyway

[05omegav6]

That's exactly how it works

When you check out, the postage and import duty are both added to the item cost and totalled. You then pay the total then option 1. happens...

1.Once the item is paid for, the sender does all the paperwork and sends the item out, usually via USPS. It then gets delivered straight to your door by either Royal Mail or Parcel Force.

The alternative is that you pay the item price and postage. Then option 2. happens...

2.The item is then sent out, and you'll receive a card in the post from Parcel Force say X amount is due, plus an admin charge. You then either have to go and collect the item or wait another two days for delivery

Option one is the more straightforward, and guarantees no import snafus. Some senders are quicker at sending things out than others, but that applies across the board

I have brought various things from the States, and prepaying the duty simplifies things immensely

[zYx]

Bosch coils arrived today and it's raining now...
I added some new pics if you care https://copy.com/PT7nFltmmGur

[zYx]

Ok I replaced the coils and it made no difference. I disconnected the battery for a bit to see if that will help and now the engine can't start at all. Maybe the battery is dying now?

There is no error codes...

[05omegav6]

That's odd does it even try and turn over?

[zYx]

It turns and tries to start yes. I left the battery disconnected for longer now. It's raining again 

[05omegav6]

What's the fuel level? Any codes after repeated starting attempts

[Marks DTM Calib]

Disconnect the maf and try

[zYx]

I always have some fuel. In fact I keep all my receipts there's about 25 litres of Sainsbury's petrol. I go to all stations... probably shouldn't.

I'm borrowing some kind of a diagnostic cable called "op - com" (chinese clone) with... "op - com" software from a friend tomorrow. He used it with his vectra and claims it helped him a lot.

I tried to start it 3 or 4 times for like 15-25 seconds.

I haven't tried without the MAF yet. The battery is currently disconnected. I will try without the MAF in a mo.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Disconnecting the battery won't do any thing

[zYx]

Ok I just tried without the MAF and it won't start. I'll try to record it on video.

Here's the video http://youtu.be/Tj3xE0B3s0s

[martin42]

Faulty fuel pump or blocked filter,sounds like fuel starvation.

[zYx]

Faulty fuel pump or blocked filter,sounds like fuel starvation.

The engine was running after I replaced the coils until I disconnected the battery. Fuel filter is couple of years old and as far as I'm concerned the pump works too.

[Kevin Wood]

Is the fuel pump running while you crank the engine, and do the needles on the speedometer and rev counter bounce as you start cranking?

I'm wondering if the crank sensor was on it's way out, and it's finally failed completely.

[zYx]

Is the fuel pump running while you crank the engine,

I'm sure it does, but I'd need to verify it :>

and do the needles on the speedometer and rev counter bounce as you start cranking?

Yes they do bounce.

I'm wondering if the crank sensor was on it's way out, and it's finally failed completely.

I believe the crank sensor was replaced about 4 years ago and not because it failed, but because the wire was too close to the exhaust manifold.

At this point I think the battery is low anyway. I can get the jump leads out and keep trying with a different battery or a car...

[Kevin Wood]

Charge it up and give it a few cranks with your foot on the floor before trying to start it again. I wonder if it's been misfiring and has now flooded as a result. Cranking with the throttle floored activates a flood clear mode where no fuel is injected.

[zYx]

OK I connected the op - com and it seems to be linked with my car. Current battery voltage is 10.7V.

What data should I look at if I manage to start the car? Should I get some Vpower as at the moment I've got 20 litres of sainsburys 95 octane..

I also got Wynns cleaning solution. Should I add it?

[zYx]

All other components are working, that is fuel pump etc. op - com shows it all and I just took the plugs out from bank 1-3-5 and all plugs were wet.

[martin42]

Engine was flooded,dry all the plugs before restarting engine.

[zYx]

Ok, 1-3-5 are now dry. Now to 2-4-6......

[martin42]

If you have a battery charger,charge battery up before starting,or jump start it.

[zYx]

If you have a battery charger,charge battery up before starting,or jump start it.

I got another car next to mine at the moment.

[zYx]

I've managed to start the engine, and it wasn't running fine, but I left it running for a while revving it from time to time and eventually the problem went away. I did put about 6 litres of Vpower plus a little bit of that wynns stuff and the engine is running perfectly fine now

Mark was probably right and nothing needed replacing at this time, however the plugs and the coil packs did look like they needed changing very soon anyways. I think.

Guys, do you think it was caused by that dodgy/eco petrol in Germany?

[kevinp58]

Dodgy petrol does cause the things that you have posted and seeing as you have now added some nitro to it and it gradually got better and is now running good then it all points to that. 

[zYx]

Cool, thank you all for taking your time here. Hopefully this will help somebody else with so many misfires...

Do you avoid any petrol stations? Did you notice the Y32SE to be running any different depending on where you filled your tank?

[kevinp58]

Cool, thank you all for taking your time here. Hopefully this will help somebody else with so many misfires...

Do you avoid any petrol stations? Did you notice the Y32SE to be running any different depending on where you filled your tank?

I only use named brands but saying that I went to my local shell last week that was refurbed begining of last year and filled my van up with diesel and it ran like poo poo so you never can tell 

[zYx]

Hmm.. the shell garage near me has been refurbished recently and they were doing something there again yesterday...

I've been using all petrol stations randomly, so i have a feeling that I made a big mistake there and then in Germany last year in August. Bloody eco crap

[05omegav6]

Tesco ultimate is reputed to be ok, but their regular can be hit and miss locally.
I predominantly use Shell, and a tank of V power every so often along with a couple of cans of wynns injector cleaner . Works a treat at blowing cobwebs away