Topic: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb (Read 7708 times)

Andy A · « **on:** 24 October 2016, 14:55:46 »

Does anyone have the VX part numbers for the front and rear bushes and ball joint?

How can I tell if my wishbones or if I buy some second hand ones are original VX?

Does anyone have the part number for the complete wishbones from VX?

Do all the FL models have the same wishbones?

If there are any alternative brand ball joints or bushes that are as good please let me know.

Thanks

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 October 2016, 15:52:09 »

By my records...

Rear bush 9156605
Balljoint 90512982
Ball joint 90512982

Have Poly fronts, which are made by Powerflex so I have no Vx part no, sorry.

As far as I'm aware, all Omegas have the same wishbone. (That is to say, you may fit a 2003 Elite one to a 1994 2.0 GLS...the only difference being a small hole for the HID sensor, which I has already been there on all the wishbones I've ever seen, though in theory there may be NOS non-HID ones out there. You keep your existing small 'L'bracket and swap it over ontot he new wishbones.

I use genuine GM ones, though ball joint make isn't meant to be as critical as bush/rocker cover brand, most seem 'fine'. QH is an old (dead) brand with a good reputation.

The no-name wishbones I currently run on were bought 2nd hand, but were as-new condition, not even any rust. The bushes were all changed, only to discover on fitting that one of the ball joints was already clapped out! So cheap wishbones can have very short-lived ball joints, just to make you aware.

Again, no part no. for complete Vx wishbones, though I do know full retail is £190 each. You can make a pair up for around £100 (& maybe less) of the same spec, using all GM rubber, inc Poly.

Andy A · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 October 2016, 16:21:31 »

Quote from: Diamond Black Geezer on 24 October 2016, 15:52:09

By my records...

Rear bush 9156605
Balljoint 90512982
Ball joint 90512982

Have Poly fronts, which are made by Powerflex so I have no Vx part no, sorry.

As far as I'm aware, all Omegas have the same wishbone. (That is to say, you may fit a 2003 Elite one to a 1994 2.0 GLS...the only difference being a small hole for the HID sensor, which I has already been there on all the wishbones I've ever seen, though in theory there may be NOS non-HID ones out there. You keep your existing small 'L'bracket and swap it over ontot he new wishbones.

I use genuine GM ones, though ball joint make isn't meant to be as critical as bush/rocker cover brand, most seem 'fine'. QH is an old (dead) brand with a good reputation.

The no-name wishbones I currently run on were bought 2nd hand, but were as-new condition, not even any rust. The bushes were all changed, only to discover on fitting that one of the ball joints was already clapped out! So cheap wishbones can have very short-lived ball joints, just to make you aware.

Again, no part no. for complete Vx wishbones, though I do know full retail is £190 each. You can make a pair up for around £100 (& maybe less) of the same spec, using all GM rubber, inc Poly.

Does the new rear bush rubber need to be installed in a particular rotation in a direction to the front or to side of the car?

Why fit poly bushes to the front instead of the VX ones?

Thanks

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 October 2016, 16:29:24 »

Ah, simple. The rear bushes on the front wishbones require no orientation. You may read the 'rear bush needs to be oriented correctly' on oof... this refers to the 'doughnut bush' on the rear subframe, and so of no worry to you.

You do, however, need a handy ten-ton press. Most garages have one, and you can often get a bush pressed in for the price of a bit of money in the tea/coffee/beer fund.

the bushes are gandly named 'silicone-filled hydrobushes' which were a fine idea, giving a soft, gooey ride. Sadly unlike a solid lump of rubber, the fluid inside leaks out, and the handling is compromised, and you have an MoT fail on your hands. Solid Polys are a very common mod. It is the front bush that normally fails. (well, technically fails first, most cars become chronic and undriveable before the rear has failed) the Poly bushes slightly tighten the handling (but not to any 'boy racer level' trust me, you technically lose a little 'softness' in the drive, but nothing frankly noticeable, the Omega remains one of the smoothest drives out there)

Nothing wrong with the Vx ones, per se, in that they're the best quality of a type which does eventually fail. But fail they do, the Polys last 'forever' it's like replacing mild steel with stainless.

Extra:
There's an element of fitting Omega wishbones which often leads to cockups and empty wallets... you need to torque up the wishbones after the car is lowered/the weight on the suspension. With Polys this isn't required. Just torque them up whilst up in the air. Saves a bit of faff

Andy A · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 October 2016, 17:02:28 »

Do these look genuine VX to you?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/30241111910/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/30422743342/in/dateposted-public/

If they are I might get them and then I can refurb them before the MOT in March.

I was thinking about getting a universal bush removal/install kit that would do for my sons car as well in the future and use an impact wrench on it to make the job easier. What do you think?

Thanks

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 October 2016, 09:21:36 »

I can't remember how you'd tell if they are genuine GM for sure or not, can't remember if I've ever seen a set of pukka ones - but those have a weld all the way round the rear bush, so in theory, even if pattern, are very much up to the job.

I don't have a full weld seam on mine, but haven't died in a ball of flames yet.

They look a nice pair, if cheap enough well worth getting and rebuilding.

Andy A · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 October 2016, 10:26:21 »

Might be able to get them for £20 each. Not sure if that's a good price or not.

Just found a pair of new QH control arms/wishbones for around £80 a pair. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them.

Years ago they used to be a vary good make and match for a replacement of any OE part. Don't know how good there wishbones are.

Thanks for all the info.

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 October 2016, 10:33:46 »

Well I paid £20 each for my cheapie ones, second hand, decent price, I reckon

The QH, I'm not sure, as you say, they used to be very good. Ball joint I'd say good, but can't say how good the rubber will be. Mind, if those ones are GM, then you might as well just replace the front bush will Poly, paint and fit them, unles you know the other bush/ball joint is knackered

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 October 2016, 10:38:48 »

Quote from: Andy A on 24 October 2016, 17:02:28

Do these look genuine VX to you?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/30241111910/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/30422743342/in/dateposted-public/

If they are I might get them and then I can refurb them before the MOT in March.

I was thinking about getting a universal bush removal/install kit that would do for my sons car as well in the future and use an impact wrench on it to make the job easier. What do you think?

Thanks

Those are most definitely not GM items.

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 October 2016, 10:52:59 »

What would the tell-tale signs be of genuine GM? - a yellow two letter code sticker for one, but this is often peeled off over time.

Andy A · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 October 2016, 11:07:13 »

The person said they are 100% working fine and are Vauxhall Genuine OE. Here is a better photo of them both and shows both sides.

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=568360&image=875758561&images=875758549,875758561&formats=0,0&format=0

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=568360&image=875758094&images=875758094,875758104&formats=0,0&format=0

One looks like it is stamped with a mark and the other doesn't have one.

I'm still waiting for a return phone call.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 October 2016, 11:17:07 »

In laymans terms, genuine DO NOT have LEFT/RIGHT stickers on them

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 October 2016, 11:36:48 »

Also for clarity.

Front Wishbone Horizontal (front) Bushes:

If replacing like for like these MUST be oriented correctly. Haynes give details. Not all wishbone manufacturers are too careful about this. When refitting the wishbones, these front bolts MUST be torqued correctly with the weight of the car on the wheels.

If fitting Polybushes, these can be popped in with a wipe of copperslip and the bolts tightened with the car jacked. This is because the bushes work in a different way. Much easier for DIY fitting, almost worth the purchase price alone.

Front Wishbone Vertical (rear) Bushes:

These have no orientation beyond the obvious, but need pressing in with care as the outer bush surface can distort. Again, due to the way they work, the bolts can be torqued with the car jacked.

Rear Subframe Front (donut) Bushes:

If replacing these like for like, they also have a specific orientation, and MUST be fitted the correct way. Failure to do this will, at best, result in crap handling and, at worst, complete bush failure. Again the poly bushes have no orientation and can simply be pushed in and the bolts tightened. When fitting either type, only do one side at a time otherwise you'll damage the rear bushes and it makes refitting the bolts alot harder as nothing will line up.

Rear Subframe Rear (diff) Bushes:

These are no longer available, be gentle with them.

And that's about as plain as I can make all of that...

Andy A · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 October 2016, 12:18:33 »

Quote from: Doctor Gollum on 25 October 2016, 11:36:48

Also for clarity.

Front Wishbone Horizontal (front) Bushes:

If replacing like for like these MUST be oriented correctly. Haynes give details. Not all wishbone manufacturers are too careful about this. When refitting the wishbones, these front bolts MUST be torqued correctly with the weight of the car on the wheels.

If fitting Polybushes, these can be popped in with a wipe of copperslip and the bolts tightened with the car jacked. This is because the bushes work in a different way. Much easier for DIY fitting, almost worth the purchase price alone.

Front Wishbone Vertical (rear) Bushes:

These have no orientation beyond the obvious, but need pressing in with care as the outer bush surface can distort. Again, due to the way they work, the bolts can be torqued with the car jacked.

Rear Subframe Front (donut) Bushes:

If replacing these like for like, they also have a specific orientation, and MUST be fitted the correct way. Failure to do this will, at best, result in crap handling and, at worst, complete bush failure. Again the poly bushes have no orientation and can simply be pushed in and the bolts tightened. When fitting either type, only do one side at a time otherwise you'll damage the rear bushes and it makes refitting the bolts alot harder as nothing will line up.

Rear Subframe Rear (diff) Bushes:

These are no longer available, be gentle with them.

And that's about as plain as I can make all of that...

Nice write-up Al. Just printed it out for future reference.

How are the ball joints on the original wishbones connected?

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 October 2016, 12:33:58 »

Three rivets, need drilling or careful grinding to remove

I normally hold the arm in a vice and slice the heads off with a grinder... takes all of a minute to do both

All new balljoints come with nuts and bolts... makes refitting a doddle, even if they fail prematurely

Was trying to trawl the dregs of my memory re the wishbones pictured, think it might have been firstline that had to label which side was which

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 October 2016, 13:36:33 »

Seconded the grinder method.

Started with a drill, after ten minutes just threw it down and decided life's too short, got the grinder out, two minutes and off!

Andy A · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 October 2016, 18:17:03 »

Grinder it is.

Nick W · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 October 2016, 18:48:21 »

Andy, those are no crustier than I would expect.

Riveting the balljoints is a stronger joint than bolting them, as a properly set rivet expands to fill the holes. I'd rather have that than faffing about with 16 year old grotty parts that look stronger. I immediately binned all three sets of knackered GM wishbones that I've changed this year.

Andy A · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 October 2016, 21:02:37 »

Quote from: Nick W on 25 October 2016, 18:48:21

Andy, those are no crustier than I would expect.

Riveting the balljoints is a stronger joint than bolting them, as a properly set rivet expands to fill the holes. I'd rather have that than faffing about with 16 year old grotty parts that look stronger. I immediately binned all three sets of knackered GM wishbones that I've changed this year.

Interesting about the rivets.

What make of wishbones did you fit instead?

Nick W · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 October 2016, 21:32:21 »

Quote from: Andy A on 25 October 2016, 21:02:37

Quote from: Nick W on 25 October 2016, 18:48:21
Andy, those are no crustier than I would expect.

Riveting the balljoints is a stronger joint than bolting them, as a properly set rivet expands to fill the holes. I'd rather have that than faffing about with 16 year old grotty parts that look stronger. I immediately binned all three sets of knackered GM wishbones that I've changed this year.

Interesting about the rivets.

What make of wishbones did you fit instead?

Mine are ATP. I don't know about the other two, as I didn't buy them.
I've not seen anything to make me think that the pattern wishbones are inferior to GM. That's much harder to say about the bushes inside them, but I consider fitting poly fronts a necessity.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 October 2016, 21:35:34 »

The ones on your car are original factory fit

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #21 on:** 26 October 2016, 09:43:45 »

Agreed - as far as I'm concerned a lump of metal is a lump of metal in this case. The rubber compounds vary greatly in quality, and it's this that wears, and this is the issue. The only other is the cosmetic side, so a coat of decent hammerite / stone chip / Rustbuster 121 will see that right too. (No point in replacing the bushes, then leave the metal rusting, leave that kind of thing to Wheeler Dealers)

Not sure about the nut n bolts slipping in the holes, I see the logic, Next time I'm under I could look for any signs of mine having slipped. (Mine have about half an inch of paint on them

, so any movement should be easy to spot)

terry paget · « **Reply #22 on:** 26 October 2016, 10:27:48 »

Fascinating thread, gentlemen. I have never refurbished a wishbone, I always fit ATP wishbones and have yet to wear one out.
I am nervous of fitting a rigid poly front bush, because I do not understand why Opel designers fitted a horizontal front bush and a vertical rear bush. Common sense tells me I need two bushes both horizontal and in line. Please explain to me Opel's reasoning.

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #23 on:** 26 October 2016, 11:19:09 »

They do different things, literally. I know what you mean, why not both horizontal, surely?

The middle part of the front bush actually remains where it is all the time, and actually twists when the wishbone moves up and down. The rear one, again, the centre remains vertical all the time, but the solid chunk of rubber surrounding it compresses and stretches when the wishbone moves up and down. That how...

As for why they did, well not sure, clearly there's and automatic desire for the wishbone to spring back to its rest position, but the weight of the vehicle and the great big spring does that already. Whyever it is, it won awards, and lasted from 1986 to 2003.

You need not be nervous about it, the design of the poly means it freely spins, doesnt distort that same twisting does also mean theres an element of vagueness in the front steering, (and also damps out vibration to a point) and in the long-term, as we know, means the tracking goes out. You only notice this when you realise your new tyre is down to the canvas on one side, and on 7mm the other!

terry paget · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 October 2016, 11:45:09 »

Thank you.
I suppose the fore and aft forces are best handled by the vertical bush, while the horizonal bush stabilises things. On my 1960 double wishbone Mini the horizontal metal pivots bore loads in many directions, and needed reshimming every 5000 miles. There were no MOT tests in those days.

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #25 on:** 26 October 2016, 13:45:26 »

I once owned a terrific book about suspension systems. I think I loaned it to a mate at Uni and never saw it again. But it explained in massive depth how various suspension systems all have - in theory - advantages and disadvantages, and the compromises which all have to make. From memory - the 'perfect' suspension is one which keeps the wheel in exactly the same plane, at right angles to the road, at all times. That's the Holy Grail, but cars also need to steer, ideally long service intervals, go in straight lines, also corner, be production feasible, cost etc... and that's where the compromises have to come in

As you'll be well aware, the Mini suspension (all the factory versions) is very very ~~basic~~ simple, but is set up well, for excellent results. And of course a very good suspension (double wishbone on, say the Pug 407) can be set up to not create particularly special results. That was the nub of this books point - well-set up suspension of conventional, even boring design, will trump a top-end, complex suspension that's 'unfinished' That's the Omega in a nutshell, evolved sine the 70s, and basically bang on from the late 80s onwards. Nothing too special about it (the rear track rods were somewhat unusual for the day, even innovative) but it's a MacPherson front strut, 'triangular' control arm, and nice, simple back end with semi-trailing arms, angled to generate slight passive steering. Rear drive. It works very well, and you can chuck a very high amount of bhp before the chassis hits its limitation. Compare that with a torque-steering Vectra C VXR which was 'all new' and came in just as the Omega went out to grass.

terry paget · « **Reply #26 on:** 26 October 2016, 21:35:13 »

Thanks for that explanation, DBG. All suspension systems are compromises. I agree, the Omega Mcpherson strut system with rubber pivoted lower wishbones, works well enough, with good handling and little need for maintenance. Camber varies with suspension travel and tyre wear can be uneven, but the car is quiet, comfortable, cheap to run, and easy to maintain.

Andy A · « **Reply #27 on:** 27 October 2016, 20:57:37 »

I was looking up the Powerflex front bushing and came across some Strongflex bushings.

http://www.strongflex.eu/en/1161-omega-b-fl-99-03

Anyone tried these?

The red ones are the same Hardness: 80ShA as the Powerflex.

Andy A · « **Reply #28 on:** 28 October 2016, 17:02:18 »

Quote from: Nick W on 25 October 2016, 21:32:21

Quote from: Andy A on 25 October 2016, 21:02:37
Quote from: Nick W on 25 October 2016, 18:48:21
Andy, those are no crustier than I would expect.

Riveting the balljoints is a stronger joint than bolting them, as a properly set rivet expands to fill the holes. I'd rather have that than faffing about with 16 year old grotty parts that look stronger. I immediately binned all three sets of knackered GM wishbones that I've changed this year.

Interesting about the rivets.

What make of wishbones did you fit instead?

Mine are ATP. I don't know about the other two, as I didn't buy them.
I've not seen anything to make me think that the pattern wishbones are inferior to GM. That's much harder to say about the bushes inside them, but I consider fitting poly fronts a necessity.

Nick, out of curiosity where did you buy your ATP wishbones from?

Thanks

Quote from: Doctor Gollum on 25 October 2016, 21:35:34

The ones on your car are original factory fit

I reckon you should change your name again to Keen Eyed Al.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #29 on:** 28 October 2016, 17:06:24 »

I'll stick my neck out and suggest that Nick bought his from ATP

As to whether it was direct via their german website or ebay, only he can answer... but again I will wager that it was the cheaper of the two outlets

To clarify, this isn't a dig at Nick, simply that he doesn't dick about when buying bits for his cars

Nick W · « **Reply #30 on:** 28 October 2016, 20:42:07 »

Quote from: Doctor Gollum on 28 October 2016, 17:06:24

I'll stick my neck out and suggest that Nick bought his from ATP

As to whether it was direct via their german website or ebay, only he can answer... but again I will wager that it was the cheaper of the two outlets

To clarify, this isn't a dig at Nick, simply that he doesn't dick about when buying bits for his cars

Yes, bought from ATP's own website as it was a few quid cheaper. Several mouseclicks before I got dressed, and the parts arrived 3 days later. If you've had to spend hours at work chasing down out-of date/badly specified/poorly described/etc part-numbers/parts/suppliers etc, then car parts are refreshingly simple. For me a mental Venn diagram of cost/availability/convenience determines where I source parts. Buying genuine from a dealer rarely wins.

With that said, I've owned this Omega for nearly 6 years, and have bought more genuine parts for it than all of the other cars I've owned since 1988!

Andy A · « **Reply #31 on:** 28 October 2016, 20:58:13 »

Quote from: Nick W on 28 October 2016, 20:42:07

Quote from: Doctor Gollum on 28 October 2016, 17:06:24
I'll stick my neck out and suggest that Nick bought his from ATP

As to whether it was direct via their german website or ebay, only he can answer... but again I will wager that it was the cheaper of the two outlets

To clarify, this isn't a dig at Nick, simply that he doesn't dick about when buying bits for his cars

Yes, bought from ATP's own website as it was a few quid cheaper. Several mouseclicks before I got dressed, and the parts arrived 3 days later. If you've had to spend hours at work chasing down out-of date/badly specified/poorly described/etc part-numbers/parts/suppliers etc, then car parts are refreshingly simple. For me a mental Venn diagram of cost/availability/convenience determines where I source parts. Buying genuine from a dealer rarely wins.

With that said, I've owned this Omega for nearly 6 years, and have bought more genuine parts for it than all of the other cars I've owned since 1988!

Nick, do you have a link to the ATP wishbones and is the site in German or English?

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #32 on:** 28 October 2016, 21:11:38 »

Here do for the eBay store...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUSPENSION-CONTROL-ARMS-WISHBONE-KIT-LOWER-FRONT-OPEL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-/381141643466?hash=item58bdcff0ca:g:G-IAAOSwsB9WA9cx

And...

https://www.atp-autoteile.de/group/1150201/product/3861/18846/details

You do the Math

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #33 on:** 28 October 2016, 21:13:56 »

Unless the euro has collapsed today, I would go with the eBay listing... Normally the other way around so always worth cross referencing

steve6367 · « **Reply #34 on:** 28 October 2016, 21:20:01 »

I've purchased from ATP website and eBay both worked fine so as Al says go for whats cheaper on the day

Andy A · « **Reply #35 on:** 29 October 2016, 10:01:52 »

What is confusing me is that they say the brand name for those wishbones are Q1-Part and not ATP like I thought it would.

Does ATP have there own brand name wishbones? Or have they always used Q1-Part for wishbones?

Will the Q1-Part brand take the Powerflex bushes OK without braking the welds on the wishbone?

Thanks

Nick W · « **Reply #36 on:** 29 October 2016, 10:17:08 »

Quote from: Andy A on 29 October 2016, 10:01:52

What is confusing me is that they say the brand name for those wishbones are Q1-part and not ATP like I thought it would.

Does ATP have there own brand name wishbones? Or have they always used Q1-part for wishbones?

You're over thinking a very simple thing:

They are a good price
They are convenient to buy
The quality is good enough
This makes them good value.

So, buy them. Or buy something else. It's not rocket science.

Andy A · « **Reply #37 on:** 29 October 2016, 10:43:55 »

Quote from: Nick W on 29 October 2016, 10:17:08

Quote from: Andy A on 29 October 2016, 10:01:52
What is confusing me is that they say the brand name for those wishbones are Q1-part and not ATP like I thought it would.

Does ATP have there own brand name wishbones? Or have they always used Q1-part for wishbones?

You're over thinking a very simple thing:

They are a good price
They are convenient to buy
The quality is good enough
This makes them good value.

So, buy them. Or buy something else. It's not rocket science.

What it is Nick, I want to install the Powerflex Bushes. I've read so many horror stories about the extra stresses caused by them that has led to cracking or even breaking the welds on the wishbones. A lot of the info that I have read suggests using the original wishbones to avoid this.

Are you using front Powerflex Bushes on the same wishbones that are in the link and have you had any problems?

Nick W · « **Reply #38 on:** 29 October 2016, 11:03:05 »

Quote from: Andy A on 29 October 2016, 10:43:55

Quote from: Nick W on 29 October 2016, 10:17:08

You're over thinking a very simple thing:

They are a good price
They are convenient to buy
The quality is good enough
This makes them good value.

So, buy them. Or buy something else. It's not rocket science.

What it is Nick, I want to install the Powerflex Bushes. I've read so many horror stories about the extra stresses caused by them that has led to cracking or even breaking the welds on the wishbones. A lot of the info that I have read suggests using the original wishbones to avoid this.

Those reports apply to attempts to replace the rear bush with a more durable part. The problem is not the amount of weld or quality of the metal, but that all the experiments transfer the movement from the bush to a part that can only accommodate it by flexing. The welded mild steel sheet wishbone isn't designed to do that, and will always break if you apply a lot of force often enough. And a 1700kg car does that easily.

Fitting poly front bushes doesn't alter the design, as the movement is still around the bush's central sleeve. The difference is that the parts aren't bonded together and they don't have the oil-filled cavity, so they take a lot longer to wear out. So much longer that you can expect them to last the life of the car.

Andy A · « **Reply #39 on:** 29 October 2016, 12:58:18 »

Quote from: Nick W on 29 October 2016, 11:03:05

Quote from: Andy A on 29 October 2016, 10:43:55
Quote from: Nick W on 29 October 2016, 10:17:08

You're over thinking a very simple thing:

They are a good price
They are convenient to buy
The quality is good enough
This makes them good value.

So, buy them. Or buy something else. It's not rocket science.

What it is Nick, I want to install the Powerflex Bushes. I've read so many horror stories about the extra stresses caused by them that has led to cracking or even breaking the welds on the wishbones. A lot of the info that I have read suggests using the original wishbones to avoid this.

Those reports apply to attempts to replace the rear bush with a more durable part. The problem is not the amount of weld or quality of the metal, but that all the experiments transfer the movement from the bush to a part that can only accommodate it by flexing. The welded mild steel sheet wishbone isn't designed to do that, and will always break if you apply a lot of force often enough. And a 1700kg car does that easily.

Fitting poly front bushes doesn't alter the design, as the movement is still around the bush's central sleeve. The difference is that the parts aren't bonded together and they don't have the oil-filled cavity, so they take a lot longer to wear out. So much longer that you can expect them to last the life of the car.

Did you fit the Powerflex Bushes to yours?

I read that the Powerflex Bushes dry out over time and need regressing from time to time. Is that true?

If they do need regressing and I have to undo the nut and bolt to gain access, will I have to have the geometry redone again?

Nick W · « **Reply #40 on:** 29 October 2016, 14:00:15 »

Mine has had poly bushes for over five years. Used the lithium grease that came with them, and haven't touched them since.

A geometry check isn't necessary if you do have to lubricate them.

Poly bushes eliminate a number of suspension issues cheaply and easily. They are a must have part

Andy A · « **Reply #41 on:** 29 October 2016, 15:54:00 »

Quote from: Nick W on 29 October 2016, 14:00:15

Mine has had poly bushes for over five years. Used the lithium grease that came with them, and haven't touched them since.

A geometry check isn't necessary if you do have to lubricate them.

Poly bushes eliminate a number of suspension issues cheaply and easily. They are a must have part

Nick did you ever use or try the poly bushes for the front anti roll bar and if yes, what was your thoughts on them?

Nick W · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 October 2016, 18:29:20 »

Quote from: Andy A on 29 October 2016, 15:54:00

Nick did you ever use or try the poly bushes for the front anti roll bar and if yes, what was your thoughts on them?

Fitted them at the same time. There was nothing wrong with the originals, and I've never seen any that needed replacement. As they don't locate any of the suspension like on a Ford, I wouldn't bother with them again. Plus stock rubber ones are only a couple of quid each.

steve6367 · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 October 2016, 18:43:04 »

Quote from: Nick W on 29 October 2016, 11:03:05

Quote from: Andy A on 29 October 2016, 10:43:55
Quote from: Nick W on 29 October 2016, 10:17:08

You're over thinking a very simple thing:

They are a good price
They are convenient to buy
The quality is good enough
This makes them good value.

So, buy them. Or buy something else. It's not rocket science.

What it is Nick, I want to install the Powerflex Bushes. I've read so many horror stories about the extra stresses caused by them that has led to cracking or even breaking the welds on the wishbones. A lot of the info that I have read suggests using the original wishbones to avoid this.

Those reports apply to attempts to replace the rear bush with a more durable part. The problem is not the amount of weld or quality of the metal, but that all the experiments transfer the movement from the bush to a part that can only accommodate it by flexing. The welded mild steel sheet wishbone isn't designed to do that, and will always break if you apply a lot of force often enough. And a 1700kg car does that easily.

Fitting poly front bushes doesn't alter the design, as the movement is still around the bush's central sleeve. The difference is that the parts aren't bonded together and they don't have the oil-filled cavity, so they take a lot longer to wear out. So much longer that you can expect them to last the life of the car.

Certainly on my cars I think the same applies to the ATP with stock bushes, I won't be changing them again before something else too expensive to fix fails, mainly corrosion - if you do astronomical milage or have embarked on a plan to extend the life of your Omega then I can understand the poly.

Andy A · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 October 2016, 19:09:58 »

I'll stick with the original Anti Roll Bar Bushes then. Save some money as well.

I want to keep the car for as long as possible. So I'll fit the Polys on the front in the new wishbones from ATP that I've just ordered.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Andy

Andy A · « **Reply #45 on:** 01 November 2016, 11:31:13 »

Quote from: Nick W on 29 October 2016, 14:00:15

Mine has had poly bushes for over five years. Used the lithium grease that came with them, and haven't touched them since.

A geometry check isn't necessary if you do have to lubricate them.

Poly bushes eliminate a number of suspension issues cheaply and easily. They are a must have part

Nike I thought I had some white lithium grease in the garage. Just looked and its not white Lithium its calcium sulphonate based, Ramonol Advanced White Marine Grease.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ramonol-Advanced-White-Marine-Grease-500g-/252169662902?hash=item3ab67bb1b6:g:2rwAAOSwEgVWRgMX

Is this a similar sort of stuff as the white Lithium grease you use and will it do the same job?

Thanks

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #46 on:** 01 November 2016, 11:59:27 »

Copperslip

Andy A · « **Reply #47 on:** 02 November 2016, 13:53:03 »

Quote from: Doctor Gollum on 01 November 2016, 11:59:27

Copperslip

I thought it looked like Copperslip on the photos. Yet on the Powerflex web site it says its their own formulated PTFE/Silicone bush assembly grease.

https://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/fitting-guides#

Looks like they might have changed it to Silicone with PTFE.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #48 on:** 02 November 2016, 14:02:02 »

Possible... not bought any recently to confirm

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #49 on:** 02 November 2016, 15:34:45 »

It was copperslip with mine, but that was about *?£%& years ago now. I think I used red grease last time for no real reason other than I wasnt sure if 'normal grease' would corrode the poly as it does rubber. I suspect not, though. Vaseline, grease, copperslip, whatever I'm sure will be fine.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #50 on:** 02 November 2016, 16:51:54 »

Rubber is a natural product and therefore susceptible to chemical attack and rapid fatigue in unsuitable applications. Polyurethane, however, is about as unnatural as Angela Merkel and Jimmy Krankee having a baby... And is pretty much bombproof

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #51 on:** 03 November 2016, 09:04:11 »

Or indeed, as unnatural as Angela Merkel, and Jimmy Krankie...

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Author Topic: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb (Read 7708 times)