Topic: Air-con removal (Read 4786 times)

Sideways · « **on:** 21 August 2006, 15:08:31 »

In yet another effort to shed weight I am removing all air-con parts from my 1994 Elite.

Can the system be removed without effecting the running of the car. I.e. is there any mechanical or electrical connection that I'm going to upset.

Any assistance on the removal of the system (and whether it's possible to discharge the system yourself) would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Robin Hood · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 August 2006, 15:34:51 »

The compresser is belt driven so driven so that will be hard to remove.

TheBoy · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 August 2006, 15:35:42 »

It is possible to get a non aircon aux belt...

Robin Hood · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 August 2006, 15:59:44 »

Err Umm of cause it is - better go back to work, though perhaps bed would be better.

Matchless · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 August 2006, 16:28:03 »

I assume the a/c is not working in which case there is likely to be little or no refrigerant in the system. A '94 car should have a compression-type joint near where the pipes pass through the bulkhead, loosen this joint slightly and allow the refrigerant to escape but take care to keep hands away. If the system is still full then you should take it to an a/c specialist to have the refrigerant recovered.
Remove radiator then unbolt the refrigerant connections under battery tray and remove condensor.
Unbolt refrigerant pipes from compressor (needs socket and long extension bars passed down from around power steering pump)
Unbolt compressor (3 bolts at front and 3 at rear iirc) Turn compressor anticlockwise slightly as you pull it forward. It should come out fairly easily once it is rotated to the correct position.
Refit radiator
Buy an aux belt for a 2.0 with a/c and thread it like the later V6 but missing out the a/c pump. (yours might still have the additional aux belt idler which was on the early engines but is removed when belt is changed so use later routing)
Revel in the miniscule improvement in 0-60 time and better fuel consumption.

Why not remove the air injection system also, the pump is quite heavy and once its pipes and the a/c pipes are removed you could hold a dance in the space between engine and radiator. [smiley=cheesy.gif]

Tezray · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 August 2006, 16:59:46 »

Quote

In yet another effort to shed weight I am removing all air-con parts from my 1994 Elite.

Can the system be removed without effecting the running of the car. I.e. is there any mechanical or electrical connection that I'm going to upset.

Any assistance on the removal of the system (and whether it's possible to discharge the system yourself) would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Hello, is that Mark? Thought i'd see you on here sometime soon

I imagine there is a V6 aux belt to suit no air con due to the early V6 base spec models....And if you need a hand with anything i'm happy to help [smiley=thumbup.gif]

Sideways · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 August 2006, 15:37:43 »

Cheers guys, that's loads of help.

I have a non air-con belt that Texray sorted out for me.

Right, time to start pulling it apart.

Hopefully this time tomorrow I won't have lost any limbs to frostbite.

Sideways · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 August 2006, 15:56:48 »

Pete,

You say "Why not remove the air injection system also"

By air injection system do you mean the plastic tubing going from the air box into the metal plenum type box that sits behind the radiator, then from that into the throttle bodies?

If so, will this not cause fuel mixture and ECU problems?

It had crossed my mind to modify the radiator to enable direct induction into the throttle bodies.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 August 2006, 16:01:45 »

No, he means the rather great air blower under the passenger front wheel arch (behind fog light) and associated pipe work.

nixoro · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 August 2006, 11:15:05 »

Thats the jobby that primes the cats on start up

Sideways · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 August 2006, 11:27:34 »

Excellent, I'll take a look at it tonight. Unfortunately the car is at a friends so we have a sort of long distance relationship where I just get to see her on weekends and the occasional weeknight.

Does anyone know what the black plastic box with 3 hoses coming from the top of it does that sits behind the drivers side wheel within the wheel arch? Sort of, longitudinally opposite the self adjusting rear suspension pump.

Speaking of said rear suspension, would it be worth putting standard 3.0/2.5 rear shocks (not springs) now I have removed the self adjusting rear suspension pump?

nixoro · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 August 2006, 11:45:27 »

Quote

Speaking of said rear suspension, would it be worth putting standard 3.0/2.5 rear shocks (not springs) now I have removed the self adjusting rear suspension pump?

If its not being used might be worth swapping for standard shocks you could even make a profit from the self adjusting shocks

Matchless · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 August 2006, 11:57:38 »

Quote

Does anyone know what the black plastic box with 3 hoses coming from the top of it does that sits behind the drivers side wheel within the wheel arch? Sort of, longitudinally opposite the self adjusting rear suspension pump.?

Sounds like the charcoal canister, part of the emissions control, absorbs vapour from fuel tank which is then sucked into engine and burnt when the ECU decides that the engine can cope with it.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 August 2006, 17:09:52 »

Judging by what the Mv6 we have been stripping was like when we had finished, you will probably find it sits quite high if you remove any significant amount of weight....

Tezray · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 August 2006, 20:12:39 »

Iirc he's lowered it 40mm so it won't look too silly if it sits a bit higher...

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 August 2006, 21:14:40 »

You have to remember that an MV6 is also lowered 30mm....

Sideways · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 August 2006, 08:44:17 »

Quote

Judging by what the Mv6 we have been stripping was like when we had finished, you will probably find it sits quite high if you remove any significant amount of weight....

Mark, what is it you have done to the MV6? How stripped is it. What have you done with the wiring loom, just stripped it back or created a new one?

I'd love to hear some details.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 August 2006, 08:58:03 »

We have broken it for spares so it is a non runner and only has the engine block left in it plus carpets looms etc.....but its surprising how much higher its sitting now....

Admin · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 August 2006, 09:07:01 »

I have to ask the question here.

Why are you stripping out an Omega?
It really is not a car that you use for fast road/track stuff.

Even with all the excess weight removed and minor improvements like removing the air con (not worth it at all in my opinion) you are not going to see any great improvements as the gearing is not set up for this use.

The Omega is a cruiser (and a fast one).

If you want hooligan type fun, go get a manual Carlton GSi 24v or a manual 24v Senator.

There is a manual 24v Senator on eBay right now. I think he wants around £600, which for what it has, is a good buy.

Sideways · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 August 2006, 09:26:30 »

That is a very good point which I have deliberated on for many hours, days, weeks and months. "Why am I stripping out an executive (as it's the elite) cruiser"?

My reasoning (whether sound or severely misguided) was this:

I had to change the exhaust some time ago and thought if I am going to change it I may as well get a decent one and ended up getting a beautiful custom made job that cost a mint.

I then made a few more alterations here and there (suspension etc) and the car was slowly transforming itself into a "modified" car. The car then lay dormant for about 12 months as I was just using my other car and motorbikes as the cost of running the Omega was too high. I did not want to sell the car as the exhaust was worth more then the car but wanted to make some use out of it so I decided to just use it for track use and then couldn't resist playing about with everything. One thing led to another and I know have a shell.

I know it seems daft but I thought "well nobody else has done it". I have a chequered history of modifying the unmodifiable, somewhat erroneously.

It may turn out to be a big mistake, we'll see.

Do I take it this car tomfoolery is not well received?

Matchless · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 August 2006, 09:41:54 »

Quote: Do I take it this car tomfoolery is not well received?

More likely bemused interest, or jealousy cos we arnt allowed to 'mess' with the car too much.

Admin · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 August 2006, 13:34:44 »

Quote

Quote: Do I take it this car tomfoolery is not well received?

More likely bemused interest, or jealousy cos we arnt allowed to 'mess' with the car too much.

Exactly as Pete says!

Never a case of not well received, I apologise if I gave that impression.

Sideways · « **Reply #22 on:** 25 August 2006, 18:56:33 »

Hi guys

Well I've removed the condenser and associated pipe work up to the air-con pump. On the pump I've removed three torx bolts (upper right, upper left and lower left as you look at them) and am wondering if there is anything else to remove before the pump comes off.

I can't see any help in the Haynes so any advice is much appreciated.

I'm gonna call it a day for today but will tackle it afresh tomorrow.

FYI Terry, that Aux belt you gave me fits perfectly missing out the Air -Com pump.

Hopefully I'll have better luck tomorrow.

Enjoy the bank holiday all.

rpont · « **Reply #23 on:** 25 August 2006, 19:12:38 »

There are two bolts at the back of the compressor as well as the three at the front. Also the plug below it for the clutch.

Matchless · « **Reply #24 on:** 25 August 2006, 21:42:43 »

Have you unbolted the pipes from the top of the pump? Undo the plastic bracket which fastens the pipes to the block, just below the pump. Should then be able to push the pipes rearwards to get better access to the 2 or 3 bolts at the back of the pump.
Once the pump is loose then rotate it anticlockwise to clear the brackets and ease it out.

Tezray · « **Reply #25 on:** 25 August 2006, 21:48:55 »

Quote

Hi guys

Well I've removed the condenser and associated pipe work up to the air-con pump. On the pump I've removed three torx bolts (upper right, upper left and lower left as you look at them) and am wondering if there is anything else to remove before the pump comes off.

I can't see any help in the Haynes so any advice is much appreciated.

I'm gonna call it a day for today but will tackle it afresh tomorrow.

FYI Terry, that Aux belt you gave me fits perfectly missing out the Air -Com pump.

Hopefully I'll have better luck tomorrow.

Enjoy the bank holiday all.

Glad the belt fits

Sounds like you're making some good progress too....If you want to be around for when i first fire mine up it should be late sunday afternoon....Weather or not she'll even start though is another matter!

Sideways · « **Reply #26 on:** 26 August 2006, 11:12:36 »

Quote

Have you unbolted the pipes from the top of the pump? Undo the plastic bracket which fastens the pipes to the block, just below the pump. Should then be able to push the pipes rearwards to get better access to the 2 or 3 bolts at the back of the pump.
Once the pump is loose then rotate it anticlockwise to clear the brackets and ease it out.

Sounds good.

Do you know where the bolts are on the back of the pump? Access is very limited and it's all covered in old oil (there is a leak somewhere).

Once I've removed the bolts, any suggestions on how to rotate it anticlockwise. BTW, do you mean anticlockwise as you look at it from the front or the back.

Cheers guys.

Sideways · « **Reply #27 on:** 26 August 2006, 11:25:16 »

Actually, a couple of other questions while I think of it.

i) When I drained the coolant it had a sort of rust colour to it. Should I be worried by this?

ii) As I said in the last post there is an oil leak coming from somewhere but its all so dirty I can't see the source. I've tried to get it steam cleaned but there isn't anyone near me (Bristol)n that can do it.

Does anyone know of any good products for cleaning the engine bay?

Admin · « **Reply #28 on:** 26 August 2006, 12:13:36 »

Coolant should not be rust coloured!

Flush out thoroughly and then refill with 50/50 mix.
Run for a couple of weeks then flush again and refill with 50/50.

Oil leak is most likely the rocker cover gaskets (pull a plug lead. Dry is good. Oily is gasket gone.

I would recommend Gunk to remove dirt then VERY careful use of a jet wash.
I really would not recommend steam cleaning. It is effective, but also can play havoc with sensors.

rpont · « **Reply #29 on:** 26 August 2006, 12:19:32 »

Quote

Do you know where the bolts are on the back of the pump? Access is very limited and it's all covered in old oil (there is a leak somewhere).

From below facing towards the front of the car you can get to them with an extension on your socket, need a reasonably long one. The bolts are one above the other on the engine side of the compressor.

Sideways · « **Reply #30 on:** 26 August 2006, 15:43:17 »

Sorted

Any ideas if the bracket for the pump comes of and if so whther I will interfere with anything else if I take it off perminantly?

Also, are there any clever ways of removing the matrix from the cabin side of the bulk head and associated pipework on the engine bay side of the bulk head?

Right, better get back to scrapping all the sound deading lead from the floor. Not the most fun of jobs.

rpont · « **Reply #31 on:** 26 August 2006, 19:33:11 »

Quote

Any ideas if the bracket for the pump comes of and if so whther I will interfere with anything else if I take it off perminantly?

Also, are there any clever ways of removing the matrix from the cabin side of the bulk head and associated pipework on the engine bay side of the bulk head?

The bracket does come off. I think it's three bolts across into the block and one of them is sunk into a hole. I can't remember if the PAS pump is fitted to this bracket or not so check that.

You have to remove the glove box and take the fan out to get to the matrix pipes but I don't know if the matrix comes out on that side. I can't remember why I had the fan out but I did see the pipes going into the evaporator.

Sideways · « **Reply #32 on:** 28 August 2006, 15:15:34 »

Slowly but surely.

Got the bracket off that connects the pipe from the bulk head to the matrix.

I'm trying to pull the pipes out of the engine bay and I have the top pipe (the larger one) fully disconnected from all other pipe work to the bracket on the bulkhead itself but I now need to undo the bolt union that connects the lower smaller pipe from the rest of it's associated pipe work so I can pull it out.

This bolt is in a nightmare of a place and I can't think of a clever way of getting to it without removing half of the engine.

Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with this?

Thanks

Sideways · « **Reply #33 on:** 28 August 2006, 17:05:19 »

Forget that.

A bit of elbow grease, a lot of swearing and a few hours later I managed to undo it.

For anyone else that's interested, it helps if you take the power steering resevoir off to get better access then you just need a 24mm spanner on the larger nut and a 22 on the smaller.

I've now come across another stumbling block but am going to leave it for today.

Sideways · « **Reply #34 on:** 14 September 2006, 09:19:16 »

Quote

I assume the a/c is not working in which case there is likely to be little or no refrigerant in the system. A '94 car should have a compression-type joint near where the pipes pass through the bulkhead, loosen this joint slightly and allow the refrigerant to escape but take care to keep hands away. If the system is still full then you should take it to an a/c specialist to have the refrigerant recovered.
Remove radiator then unbolt the refrigerant connections under battery tray and remove condensor.
Unbolt refrigerant pipes from compressor (needs socket and long extension bars passed down from around power steering pump)
Unbolt compressor (3 bolts at front and 3 at rear iirc) Turn compressor anticlockwise slightly as you pull it forward. It should come out fairly easily once it is rotated to the correct position.
Refit radiator
Buy an aux belt for a 2.0 with a/c and thread it like the later V6 but missing out the a/c pump. (yours might still have the additional aux belt idler which was on the early engines but is removed when belt is changed so use later routing)
Revel in the miniscule improvement in 0-60 time and better fuel consumption.

Why not remove the air injection system also, the pump is quite heavy and once its pipes and the a/c pipes are removed you could hold a dance in the space between engine and radiator. [smiley=cheesy.gif]

Been a while since I wrote on this topic so I won't be surprised if I don’t get any replies.

I've found the air injection pump (took me a while as there have been 1001 other Omega jobs to do) that is quoted and as described, there is a fair bit of associated pipe work. There seems to be a pipe that comes up from it, goes in between the aux belt and multiram system the heads to the back of the engine bay.

What of this can be removed and what negative effects will removing it have? When I do remove the pipe work, can it just be blocked up or will the air need recalculating?

Thanks again

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #35 on:** 14 September 2006, 10:03:33 »

You can block the pipes which conect to the exhaust manifold off and remove the rest.

You do need to retain the vac solenoid on the air injection valve to keep the ECU happy and you should also block the vac feed to it off.

Matchless · « **Reply #36 on:** 14 September 2006, 10:11:23 »

Ive forgotten, is this a V6?
If so you can remove tha air injection pump, the vacuum operated valve (but leave the solenoid part plugged in), all the rubber pipes and the metal pipe thart runs across front of engine.
You will be left with the metal pipes which lead to the exhaust manifolds, one straight ended, and one with a 90deg end. These have to be blanked off, if you use a 2" long bit of copper pipe and solder a blanking cap to one end it will fit into the rubber joining piece on the end of the metal pipe.

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Author Topic: Air-con removal (Read 4786 times)