Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please play nicely.  No one wants to listen/read a keyboard warriors rants....

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ... 38   Go Down

Author Topic: Scimitar MV6  (Read 77209 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lozzzzzz

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #90 on: 01 March 2012, 16:25:40 »

I was thinking of borrowing an oscilloscope from work and checking the signal. 

The CPS I have is brand new (in an attempt to resolve the issue some months ago), I'll try the different type sensor next then bring the CRO home if needs be. 

The battery is brand new, Varta silver jobby, spins the engine a treat, the voltage drop is very small as its in perfec health, the ECU can take as low as 5v too I think. 

Thanks for the siggestions Kevin, keep them coming. 
Logged

Kevin Wood

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Alton, Hampshire
  • Posts: 36281
    • Jaguar XE 25t, Westfield
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #91 on: 01 March 2012, 16:37:25 »

Ah, OK. Forgot we'd already been there.  :-[

It might be handy to get a trace of the crank sensor signal during cranking. You could then approach the ECU manufacturer and ask if it's in spec.

I'd be happy to measure mine for comparison purposes. That might show up a potentially incorrect sensor.

Only other thing I can think of is that ignition interference is getting into the ECU. Are the +12v supplies to the coil packs bypassed with a capacitor close to the coil?
Logged
Tech2 services currently available. See TheBoy's price list: http://theboy.omegaowners.com/

lozzzzzz

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #92 on: 01 March 2012, 18:12:42 »

Its good thinking Kev, but I'm afraid the coils have been long disconnected :( along with anything else that coudl possible causing noise of any kind. 

I'll bear that in mind with the oscilloscope thank you very much :)  I'll persue that route after trying the other sensor type. 


On that note could I possible tap the wealth of knowledge here regarding sourcing a GM/siemens type sensor as per this page:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=96562.msg1197584;boardseen#new

The old one was bosch type, the new replacement part is the same bosch type, so I'm really keen to try the Siemens one with the GM letters on the back and see if the ECU likes that signal better. 

Could anyone point me in the direction of where I could buy one with an oval type connector.  I've looked on ebay and not had much luck yet. 
Logged

Kevin Wood

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Alton, Hampshire
  • Posts: 36281
    • Jaguar XE 25t, Westfield
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #93 on: 01 March 2012, 18:57:46 »

How was it running with the coils disconnected? Or is the problem evident during cranking?

(bear in mind the battery voltage may be dipping quite low if the starter motor is being fed from the same battery as the ECU)
Logged
Tech2 services currently available. See TheBoy's price list: http://theboy.omegaowners.com/

lozzzzzz

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #94 on: 01 March 2012, 19:25:12 »

The problem (I'm assuming they're linked) is apparent when cranking.  Sometimes the ECU recognises the engine is turning and sometimes not. 

Too recap the long saga thast been unfolding over the last couple of months, below is a massive thing I wrote on one of the other forums:




The battery is brand new, and I believe the ECU can take as low as 5v. The sensor is shielded as per standard, and earthed at one end only. The one end only thing is the only advice I’ve ever read, in fact I think I’ve read in Dave walkers section in the mag that it shouldn’t be earthed at both ends. I’m not wishing to sound ungrateful just what I’ve read (I’m in way over my head now anyway).

There is a lot more in previous posts about the fault (although you’ve got to look way back, its been going on for a while). But the basics are as follows:

I’ve checked and checked the polarity, to the point where I made a connector that reversed the polarity of signal wires, and its definitely wired up correctly.

There are two symptoms, of what I imagine are the same problem.
Firstly there is a two colour LED on the ECU, red for no CPS signal (or not recognized) and green for CPS signal ok (when green the ECU then starts dishing out sparks and fuel). When cranking the engine to start, the LED goes green in less that a second (as it should), but sometimes it just stays red. If its stays red for more than a few seconds you can guarantee it’ll just stay red indefinitely. Stop spinning the engine and start again, and it’ll go green (and start of course). It doesn’t matter if the ECU is left powered on between tries, or switched off, it seems unrelated. This is not a major issue but might be embarrassing when starting the car to show folk .

The second issue (and more importantly), is while the engine is running the LED momentarily goes red (quarter of a second maybe), the engine begins to die then picks up to idle again. The “hiccup” happened quite randomly, and without warning, something like every 30 seconds. It happens regardless of throttle position and revs.

The fault is “the ECU is loosing the CPS signal momentarily (or indefinatley when cranking). I’m not sure why.

Obviously I can’t try much disconnecting with the engine still running and I’m working on the assumption that the two symptoms are one problem, I’ve bee trying to fix the problem and testing the success (or lack of) by cranking only and observing the LED.

There have been numerous emails between the manufacture and myself, with many a suggestion tried, bit the main theme so far has been get the earthing right and make sure its not picking up any noise.

Its no got to the point where nothing at all is running accept the starter motor, with one massive thick lead to the pos on the motor, and the block earthed via the chassis back to the battery in the back of the car.
And the ECU with a wire powering it straight from the battery pos and the 3 ECU earths running separately all the way back to the batter neg.

There can be no earthing issues, none of the sensors are connected to the ECU none are connected to earth, they’re just parts sitting in the car. The cars loom is dead I’ve been turning the engine by shorting the pos on the starter the start solenoid with a spanner. None of which is anywhere near the ECU or any of its wiring.
Logged

Rods2

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Sandhurst Berkshire
  • Posts: 7604
    • 1999 3.0 Elite Estate
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #95 on: 02 March 2012, 21:08:38 »

Where you have been concentrating on a weak crank sensor signal or interference, have you also considered the following:

1. On start up it could be the voltage drop / noise is crashing the ECU so the red LED stays on. Have you tried running with a common earth and separate 12v supply for the ECU?

2. Likewise rather than crank sensor noise, causing intermittent problems, it might again be ECU PS noise from the starter motor or alternator (if connected).

I agree with Kevin if another crank sensor, doesn't solve the problem, then using a CRO to look at the crank signal and PS starting voltage drop and noise is the next step.

I hope this is of help

I really enjoyed reading about this interesting project and hope you manage to get the crank sensor problems sorted soon.  :y
Logged
US Fracking and Saudi Arabia defending its market share = The good news of an oil glut, lower and lower prices for us and squeaky bum time for Putin!

Marks DTM Calib

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • West Bridgford
  • Posts: 33834
  • Git!
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #96 on: 02 March 2012, 21:27:18 »

Some thoughts.

You need to think carefuly about your grounding approach.

Star grounding will be key as sensors such as the crank, cam and knock will be unhappy seeing any potential eddy current passing through the screens.

Similarly, the approach taken for the supply needs to be good so seperate large cable from the battery to the starter/alternator and a further from the ECU to battery via fuses as required.

Logged

lozzzzzz

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #97 on: 02 March 2012, 22:21:37 »

Rods2,

I've looked into the low voltage while cranking thing and the ECU can take as low as 5v, if the LED is showing at all then there's plenty of voltage to run it, the battery is brand new too. 

The alternator is disconnected and not even spinning, it could be the starter, but I'm working on the assumption (for now) that it must be able to cope with starter motor noise!?!

Thanks for your suggestions, and I'm glad you like reading the posts :)


Mark,

The feed to the starter is massive, its super thick telecoms cable, and the ECU has a completely sepparate feed from the battery terminal giving it the best chance possible, I've not yet gone as far as to try the ECU on a completely sepparate battery though. 

Forgive my ignorance, but that is "Star Grounding" this is something th eECU people mentioned. 
Logged

Entwood

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • North Wiltshire
  • Posts: 19566
  • My Old 3.2 V6 Elite (LPG)
    • Audi A6 Allroad 3.0 DTI
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #98 on: 02 March 2012, 22:26:14 »

Lozz .. I'm sure Mark will answer better .. but I only know of star grounding in relation to audio, to reduce hum .. I'm guessing the principle is the same ..

Have a read here .. explains it in great detail in relation to amplifiers ...

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/stargnd/stargnd.htm

There are better articles around but thats the best google found for me .. HTH
Logged

lozzzzzz

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #99 on: 02 March 2012, 22:39:22 »

Hmmm.....    you don't know how important some things are till you start reading about them ay!? 

I'll put this in with my list of things to try. 

Thanks Entwood
Logged

lozzzzzz

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #100 on: 25 March 2012, 09:45:26 »

I've had about a day on the car in the last 5 weeks :( :(, but I had the opportunity to get a CRO on the sensor and have a look at the signal.  I don't know what I'm looking for really, but its served a purpose, I've emailed it to the ECU manufacturer to see if its in spec (ish) for their ECU. 

It looks pretty clean to me.  I'm guessing the three "humps" are compressions (as its turning on the starter motor) and the spike is the gap of 2 teeth giving the ECU a possition as well as speed.  The second photo is with the siemens sensor (thats another £40 down the pan then).




More to come (in another 6 months :( )
Logged

Andy B

  • Get A Life!!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Bury Lancs
  • Posts: 39483
    • ML350 TDM SmartRoadster
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #101 on: 25 March 2012, 09:49:17 »

......
More to come (in another 6 months :( )

That'll give me time to get a bigger monitor  ::) ::) ;) :y :y
Logged

lozzzzzz

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #102 on: 25 March 2012, 10:06:03 »

Uuuurrmm yeah!  just trying to downsize that now!
Logged

Kevin Wood

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Alton, Hampshire
  • Posts: 36281
    • Jaguar XE 25t, Westfield
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #103 on: 25 March 2012, 11:17:23 »

What was the vertical Volts/div on those pictures?

But yes, on the face of it the signals look nice and clean. :-\
Logged
Tech2 services currently available. See TheBoy's price list: http://theboy.omegaowners.com/

F1 9LFG

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • nr Braintree, Essex
  • Posts: 449
    • View Profile
Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #104 on: 25 March 2012, 23:28:36 »

fantastic reading the thread so far - good luck and keep us updated. Wish I had the time/ability and tools to do something like this myself  :y
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ... 38   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.036 seconds with 18 queries.