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[LC0112G]

Driving home tonight after work, and suddenly a loud banging from the rear started. I initially thought either the exhaust mounts had broken, and it was hitting the underside of the car, or the diff mounts had gone and it was banging on the sub-frame. No point in stopping coz no chance of fixing anything at the side of the road. Every speed bump and pothole makes a frightening racket.

Got home and looked in the boot and the cause immediately apparent. Nearside rear shock has punched through the top of the turret. I think I know the answer, but is there any viable repair?

No time to look at it now - I'm supposed to be going to the USA for two weeks tomorrow so I guess I won't be going to Heathrow in the Omega. If someone could magic up some repair panels whilst I'm away....

[tunnie]

I think Terry had this, no real cost effective option and he scrapped his.

What age/mileage is yours?

[LC0112G]

I think Terry had this, no real cost effective option and he scrapped his.

What age/mileage is yours?

Yes I remember someone here had the same issue. I think the only suggestion was to salvage some turret tops from a good scrapyard car - if one can be found.

2001 Y reg. 260K miles IIRC. Will see whet the local body shops say when I get back. Was hoping to go skiing again in it in December - Got snow tyres on a spare set of rims. It'll be cheaper to throw a few hundred quid at this to fix it than to buy a spare set of rims and snow tyres for a new car.

Things like this always happen when I've got no time to do anything about it. I suppose it's a blessing it wasn't on the way to the airport at silly o'clock tomorrow.

[tunnie]

Recall you can't simply plasma cut this out and weld new sections in, due to being key area for suspension.

Depends how badly it's gone through? 

[Andy B]

  ....

I think the only suggestion was to salvage some turret tops from a good scrapyard car - if one can be found. ....

Would they have to come off another Omega? Maybe another car has a similar set up in the boot area that could donate a suitable turret top 

[Nick W]

Recall you can't simply plasma cut this out and weld new sections in, due to being key area for suspension.

why not? The welding and fabrication is what matters, not the method used to cut out the rot.


If you can weld, have the time and the rest of the car(body, trim and mechanicals) is OK, then this is a viable and cheap repair. If you have to pay someone to do it, then scrapping it is the likely outcome especially as the shock turrets are not the worst area for rust - the sills, arches and front chassis rails will probably be as bad.

[tunnie]

My mistake, though due to suspension pressures that area could not be cut/weld.

Like you suggest, I suspect sills are rotten, mine were starting to get bad before sorted.

[Nick W]

My mistake, though due to suspension pressures that area could not be cut/weld.

Like you suggest, I suspect sills are rotten, mine were starting to get bad before sorted.

Welding on steering arms is an MOT failure, and it's best not to on suspension links - you'd replace the wishbone and rotten semi-trailing arms are really unlikely on an Omega.

[Doctor Gollum]

Have a look in the US...

The same panel from a Catera will do just as nicely as the Omega one, but they don't use salt everywhere there

Obviously depends where you're going...

[LC0112G]

Recall you can't simply plasma cut this out and weld new sections in, due to being key area for suspension.

why not? The welding and fabrication is what matters, not the method used to cut out the rot.


If you can weld, have the time and the rest of the car(body, trim and mechanicals) is OK, then this is a viable and cheap repair. If you have to pay someone to do it, then scrapping it is the likely outcome especially as the shock turrets are not the worst area for rust - the sills, arches and front chassis rails will probably be as bad.

Sills and rear quarters were completely replaced about 4-5 years ago. As were all 4 doors (don't ask). That's why I'm quite surprised the shock turrets have gone - I'd have expected the body shop to flag that up at the time if there were any issues.

I'll get some pictures when I get back, but it's an elite with working rear air suspension, so when the shock punched through the balloon inflated and pushed the top of the shock up about 4-5 inches into the boot. The air filling connection is about level with where the top of the shock should be. If the nearside has gone then the off side is also due a good looking at.

I haven't got welding O level (or CSE/GCSE/whatever) myself, so I'll have to pay to get it done. However, I think I may be able to get it done at somewhere between 'mates rates' and half the going rate.

[Doctor Gollum]

The actual turret top is a similar size/shape to the knee thigh end of a prosthetic leg. And is spot welded and seam sealed. Ignore the very top triple layered part that has actually punched through, you need the metal down from that

Remove the carpet and all will be revealed

[LC0112G]

Have a look in the US...

The same panel from a Catera will do just as nicely as the Omega one, but they don't use salt everywhere there

Obviously depends where you're going...

Virginia, Maryland, DC, Delaware, California, Nevada, Arizona. Won't have much spare time, and not sure how I'll get large panels home in my luggage anyway. But if I trip over a Caddy dealership then I'll certainly go in. Trouble is I'm struggling to work out from EPC what the p/n of the panel is. Several possible panels showing on US ebay, some for not much money. But none seem to have a good diagram of the suspension mount.

[Doctor Gollum]

Right, the official repair panel is the inner wing assembly.

The part I mean for you to replace is a subassembly that forms part of the inner wing assembly.

Two minutes removing the boot side carpet and a torch will tell you infinitely more information than the EPC

[Doctor Gollum]

https://jandrautosupply.com/index.htm

These guys might be able to help...

[Nick W]

Right, the official repair panel is the inner wing assembly.

The part I mean for you to replace is a subassembly that forms part of the inner wing assembly.

Two minutes removing the boot side carpet and a torch will tell you infinitely more information than the EPC

And remember, you don't have to buy the repair panel. Nor do you have to use all of the panel if you do buy one.


The important part of the shock tower is the hole that mounts the shock - it needs to be the right size, at the right height, at the right angle, in the right place and strong enough. Cars are made from thin sheet metal, so strong enough is done by adding plenty of shape and a thick washer to reinforce the hole. Reverse engineering it from the other side isn't rocket science. But as already mentioned, it all takes time. And time is expensive, whether you're paying somebody else or using your own instead of doing something that you want to do.

[Doctor Gollum]

90566605

Or

9117704

[Doctor Gollum]

Right, the official repair panel is the inner wing assembly.

The part I mean for you to replace is a subassembly that forms part of the inner wing assembly.

Two minutes removing the boot side carpet and a torch will tell you infinitely more information than the EPC

And remember, you don't have to buy the repair panel. Nor do you have to use all of the panel if you do buy one.


The important part of the shock tower is the hole that mounts the shock - it needs to be the right size, at the right height, at the right angle, in the right place and strong enough. Cars are made from thin sheet metal, so strong enough is done by adding plenty of shape and a thick washer to reinforce the hole. Reverse engineering it from the other side isn't rocket science. But as already mentioned, it all takes time. And time is expensive, whether you're paying somebody else or using your own instead of doing something that you want to do.

That pretty much sums up how it is made but failure tends to be outside of the circumference of the actual mounting point, and consequently on a piece of single thickness steel curved in three directions.

If you remove the shock absorber and clean the area thoroughly, you will see exactly how it can fail... Basically the plug collar of the mounting Bush rubs away all the underseal, paint and primer and eventually rots it out un noticed...

Which is exactly what has happened here and in every previous case... Basically the panel wears and corrodes to the point where the weight of the car and fatigue stress it to breaking point

[Doctor Gollum]

Incidentally, this ONLY affects saloons.

Estates have a different shock arrangement whereby the top mount is away from the wheel arch and is far less pronce to collecting mud and salt etc

[terry paget]

This happened to two of my Omegas, most recent was OE03, an ex-police 3.2, in June of this year. I scrapped them both. I found extensive rust in the other rear turrets, and elsewhere. For many years I ran six Omegas, now I have one 20 year old estate.

[terry paget]

This is the RH turret of OE03, pre-MOT inspection June this year. Until I peeled back the carpet all seemed well. LH turret was OK, just a little rust. I spent £300 on the sills 2 years ago, bought a welder and  kept other Omegas going a bit longer. Some Omega owners plan to keep their cars going forever, not I. Nick has said Omegas were not designed to last forever, more recent cars are better.

[Nick W]

This is the RH turret of OE03, pre-MOT inspection June this year. Until I peeled back the carpet all seemed well. LH turret was OK, just a little rust. I spent £300 on the sills 2 years ago, bought a welder and  kept other Omegas going a bit longer. Some Omega owners plan to keep their cars going forever, not I. Nick has said Omegas were not designed to last forever, more recent cars are better.

Whaaaaat???


I have never said that, and never will. I think the Omega bodyshell is probably one of the better examples of a late seventies design, and resists rust better than many of its shorter lived contemporaries: look at Granadas(mk2 or 3, doesn't matter), 5 series BMWs, CX, Renault 20(remember those )etc. Even E-class Mercs aren't immune; once rust takes hold it rapidly munches its way through the car.


More recent cars are not better, they're going backwards as the high cost of routine maintenance and repair costs devalue them quicker than ever. And then there are the flaws that come to light after a few years, we've had the the discussion about TDCI Mondeos several times.


Old cars wore out quickly and rusted away at a similar rate, hence the fixation on 'low mileage'. Engine management improved the service life of engines, and better rust proofing had a similar effect on the bodies. Now, we have complicated interlinked systems that cost a fortune to repair, and the bodies aren't much better. I read recently that cars are designed for a 7 year service-life. I wish I could remember where. It certainly shows in what's on the road - the number of 10 year old mid to large size cars seems to be decreasing. Patched up 20 year old cars used to be common, but aren't any more - when did you last see an early Vectra, Mondeo or P406?

[terry paget]

I beg pardon, Nick. I got that wrong.
I agree that 7 years seems to be the design life of modern cars. My local Vauxhall dealer only stocks used Vauxhalls less than 5 years old, and asks hot prices for them, nothing under £9000, and all very low mileage.

[dave the builder]

More recent cars are not better, they're going backwards as the high cost of routine maintenance and repair costs devalue them quicker than ever. And then there are the flaws that come to light after a few years, we've had the the discussion about TDCI Mondeos several times.


Old cars wore out quickly and rusted away at a similar rate, hence the fixation on 'low mileage'. Engine management improved the service life of engines, and better rust proofing had a similar effect on the bodies. Now, we have complicated interlinked systems that cost a fortune to repair, and the bodies aren't much better. I read recently that cars are designed for a 7 year service-life. I wish I could remember where. It certainly shows in what's on the road - the number of 10 year old mid to large size cars seems to be decreasing. Patched up 20 year old cars used to be common, but aren't any more - when did you last see an early Vectra, Mondeo or P406?

100% agree
but do see a few vectra B's around here, but probably because I live in a place where old people garage their cars still and because I'm a bit of a 90s vauxhall fan ,so notice them, even see cavs ,but not often 

As for cutting a turret from a 16+ year old car ,I think you's be better finding a brand new available repair panel from another make or model and cutting welding to fit ,or use fresh new metal and completely re-fabricate the top , as Nick has said before, it's hidden anyway,so just needs to be strong.
a section from an old omega/catrera  may not look rusty but after 16+ years of pot-holes and speed bumps the metal must be fatigued /case hardened weakened I'd have thought 

[Nick W]

As for cutting a turret from a 16+ year old car ,I think you'd be better finding a brand new available repair panel from another make or model and cutting welding to fit ,or use fresh new metal and completely re-fabricate the top , as Nick has said before, it's hidden anyway,so just needs to be strong.
a section from an old omega/catrera  may not look rusty but after 16+ years of pot-holes and speed bumps the metal must be fatigued /case hardened weakened I'd have thought 

Cutting a panel from another car has other costs, you've got to: find one; cut a bigger section than you'll need and you're unlikely to be doing it in your nice warm, fully equipped workshop with a nubile helper providing limitless coffee; do the same fitting and adjusting that making a new panel requires; unless you pick all of the joints apart and reweld them, you're never going to be sure how much better it actually is. This all takes a lot of time, and that's expensive.


Adapting another similar repair panel is a good idea; something like a Corsa front strut tower ought to be cheap and strong enough.


Looking at Terry's pic it's not that complicated a panel, so making a replacement to weld in from £5's worth of sheet steel isn't any more actual work. Shape it around the gas bottle/lamp-post, make the top flat to save time, but double up the thickness, add a thick washer for the shock bolt, and fold the flanges with some wide pliers(glaziers pliers are cheap - mine are Eclipse and cost £5 at a show). Underseal the outside, the inside will be covered by the carpet and all the junk in the boot.

[Doctor Gollum]

A new repair panel consists of the entire inner wing, from the tail light housing to the C pillar. If you can find one. And necessitates removing the rear quarter/bumper/interior/sill/bootlid/rear screen etc.

The required piece from another car (or from a repair panel) is the only effective repair, as it only requires stripping the boot... but I concede the point regarding a potential repeat by using a used one, although they are easy enough to check prior to cutting out.

Using one from a similar design might work, but the shock absorber geometry is important and it's a lot of work on a whim.

Omega A/Senator B may be an appropriate panel, again if you can get one, or possibly the Holden Commodore VW/X/Y/Z:-\

Andy Clears (andyc) may be able to better advise as chassis up restorations of Vx barges is his thing

[terry paget]

Above is the nearside turret of OE03, the side that failed on my earlier Omega. Not my world, but is that one steel pressing that is spot welded into the rear wing?

[Nick W]

Above is the nearside turret of OE03, the side that failed on my earlier Omega. Not my world, but is that one steel pressing that is spot welded into the rear wing?

That's how it's done, the circles around the pressing are the spot welds. And if you look around the top, you can see where the reinforcing cup for the shock is welded on. I suspect the rusty mark is its bottom edge.

[terry paget]

Forgive my innocence, but if the turret pressing was available as a spare part, could not the spot welds be drilled out, allowing a new turret to be welded in?

[Nick W]

Forgive my innocence, but if the turret pressing was available as a spare part, could not the spot welds be drilled out, allowing a new turret to be welded in?

Yes. But you would have to allow for the remaining panel to have been thinned by rust.


Remember, rust is ALWAYS worse than it looked when you started the job

[Doctor Gollum]

Forgive my innocence, but if the turret pressing was available as a spare part, could not the spot welds be drilled out, allowing a new turret to be welded in?

This is exactly what I suggested both times yours failed and for this case

[terry paget]

Forgive my innocence, but if the turret pressing was available as a spare part, could not the spot welds be drilled out, allowing a new turret to be welded in?

This is exactly what I suggested both times yours failed and for this case

I presume the turret pressing was not available as a spare part.

[Doctor Gollum]

Certainly not listed 

[2011venator]

This is the RH turret of OE03, pre-MOT inspection June this year. Until I peeled back the carpet all seemed well. LH turret was OK, just a little rust. I spent £300 on the sills 2 years ago, bought a welder and  kept other Omegas going a bit longer. Some Omega owners plan to keep their cars going forever, not I. Nick has said Omegas were not designed to last forever, more recent cars are better.

Speaking from the perspective of a qualified welder that would be an easy repair and could be made stronger than when it came out of the factory, is it worth doing, well probably not, if you are not able to weld and fabricate cheaper to buy another, all depends how much you want to keep the car on the road and how much spare time or money you have.

[terry paget]

For the record, I bought V324, Omega 2.5 petrol manual saloon in November 2010 140131 miles, and the n/s rear shock turret failed in March 2015 at 174108 miles; car scrapped.
I bought OE03, Omega police special 3.2 manual saloon, in March 2006, 130000 miles, and scrapped it June 2019 201394 miles on pre MOT inspection, with o/s shock turret failure imminent.

[Doctor Gollum]

From the picture, 'imminent' is an optimistic choice of word... 

 

[dave the builder]

From the picture, 'imminent' is an optimistic choice of word... 

 

Gaffer tape would have seen it through another couple of MOTs 

[henryd]

My mistake, though due to suspension pressures that area could not be cut/weld.

Like you suggest, I suspect sills are rotten, mine were starting to get bad before sorted.

It's only a shock absorber mounting point so a repair is viable

[tunnie]

My mistake, though due to suspension pressures that area could not be cut/weld.

Like you suggest, I suspect sills are rotten, mine were starting to get bad before sorted.

It's only a shock absorber mounting point so a repair is viable

 

[terry paget]

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=145113.0
I see in my post above of 19 June 2019 that MonzaGSE of Norway repaired his girl friend's car of a similar event for 40£ scrap part plus 150£ welding 2 years ago, and the car is still running.