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[ajsphead]

Looking to lower/stiffen the front of my 2.2Dti. Knowing that MV6 front springs are now nla, will these do as an alternative?

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I'd imagine they'd be great - I'm assuming that you have a source of these? I'd have thought they'd be even harder to get hold of than MV6 springs   

[ajsphead]

So would I and I may have a source, although it could be spurious. Will investigate.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

If you can get some I'd say they'd be great - I know much swapping has gone on with springs between Carlton and Omega (or, if you're German - 'Omega und Omega') and such as Lotus Carlton bits where they have become unavailable/unobtainable, the Omega has provided parts.

Bear in mind there is a weight difference, not sure how much between an evo500 and an Omega. That said a 2.0 GLS and a 3.2 Elite weight about 150kg apart (or some similar figure) and they share springs, so shouldn't be a massive issue. Just imagine the difference between and empty car, compared with a car with 5 fat people, their luggage, plus a full 75 litres of fuel weigh, you get the idea of how much weight the springs take without significant alteration of ride height/handling.

 

[05omegav6]

If you can get some I'd say they'd be great - I know much swapping has gone on with springs between Carlton and Omega (or, if you're German - 'Omega und Omega') and such as Lotus Carlton bits where they have become unavailable/unobtainable, the Omega has provided parts.

Bear in mind there is a weight difference, not sure how much between an evo500 and an Omega. That said a 2.0 GLS and a 3.2 Elite weight about 150kg apart (or some similar figure) and they share springs, so shouldn't be a massive issue. Just imagine the difference between and empty car, compared with a car with 5 fat people, their luggage, plus a full 75 litres of fuel weigh, you get the idea of how much weight the springs take without significant alteration of ride height/handling.

 

Apologies, but I beg to differ... different models with different engines will have different spring rates... look at the choice of Irmscher springs for the Vectra C as an example... different spring rates front and rear according to engine AND body style.

Iirc, there's about 20% difference between the front axle weights of the lightest models vs the heaviest ones.

Fit too light a spring and use the car for towing/family holidays/hooning around and it will be bouncy, handling like a badly set up Elite on 200k mile shocks, will eat shocks and likely break the springs in short order.

Fit too heavy duty springs, then the ride will be crashy and become prone to throwing the back end out at the fist sign of a damp corner...

Lowering any given car/model requires the correct length and correct weight spring... fitting any old spring from summat vaguely similar is a quick and effective route to a Darwin award

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Yes this is taken into consideration when designing a car. I didn't realise that Vauxhall fitted different springs for each engine size and subsequent noseweight difference. What are these, just out of interest?

Also quoted weight for Opel Omega Evolution500 is 1562kg, just found. So difference between Evo and OP's 2.2DTi is 98kg, or 15stone 6, or my mate Steve.

[05omegav6]

In simple terms, whilst your mate Steve doesn't sound much, another four of him and the springs are overloaded by 20%... so technically that five seater effectively becomes a four seater which is an issue.

Proper lowering springs for any given model are simply wound in closer coils to reduce the height... my Irmscher V6 estate springs are shorter than the original ones, but are rated to the same axle/load weights.

By my reckoning, the Omega A 500 3.0 24v weighs the same as an Omega B four pot auto

Original springs are graded by colour spots. Can tell you what were on mine when I get home

[ajsphead]

What we need is axle loading, spring length and rate (distance between coils and thickness, possibly variable, of the wire), assuming the tails are identical, all of which is hopefully just a phone call away.

What I want to know is the difference between a standard Carlton 3.0 front spring and an Evolution one. I don't know enough about Carltons but all the ones I see seem to be GSis with slightly lowered suspension;. It may be that a standard 3.0 spring will do the job but only if the above are within design tolerances.

[05omegav6]

What we need is axle loading, spring length and rate (distance between coils and thickness, possibly variable, of the wire), assuming the tails are identical, all of which is hopefully just a phone call away.

What I want to know is the difference between a standard Carlton 3.0 front spring and an Evolution one. I don't know enough about Carltons but all the ones I see seem to be GSis with slightly lowered suspension;. It may be that a standard 3.0 spring will do the job but only if the above are within design tolerances.

Anyone with an EPC can give you the spring rates

[ajsphead]

Data as follows

Carlton 3000 springs are length 330mm, diam of wire 14.3mm, total o/d 164mm 5.2 coils
Omega 2.2 DTI are length 360mm diam of wire 14mm total o/d 164mm. 6.2 coils

Wire thickness of both is constant throughout.

So if someone can confirm that the tails are the same then it looks like it's a factory -30mm front set.

[05omegav6]

No, no and, er, no...

Axle weights are different.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Good find ajsphead. If it helps...

http://www.partsbase.org/parts/ope-312224/

This is a link to the rubber part which sits between the bottom of the spring and the top of the damper. As you can see, Carlton, Senator and Omega share the same component. I would say this implies that the tail of the spring is identical. 

So the Omega B springs are 30mm longer/taller, the same 164mm, with one extra turn - so the only difference other than ride height being the Omega A 3000 springs being actually fractionally thicker, at 14.3mm.

[05omegav6]

The Monaro uses the same rear wheel bearing as the Omega B estate... Doesn't make the rest of the suspension the same...

[ajsphead]

No, no and, er, no...

Axle weights are different.

Can you give me the axle weights please?

[05omegav6]

Yours will be in your owners handbook...