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Author Topic: Yet another shooting at an American school ....  (Read 4805 times)

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Andy B

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Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« on: 14 February 2018, 22:14:48 »

.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43066226

Apparently it's the '19th school shooting so far this year' .....  :o :o
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #1 on: 14 February 2018, 22:40:56 »

Perhaps there is a theme? Americans? Schools?
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #2 on: 14 February 2018, 22:42:37 »

They are (arguably) the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth, and yet they are totally nuts  ???

Maybe we should have voted for the Monster Raving Loony Party all those years ago

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #3 on: 14 February 2018, 23:23:05 »

They are (arguably) the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth, and yet they are totally nuts  ???

Maybe we should have voted for the Monster Raving Loony Party all those years ago

We still can, there are plenty to choose from!
Don't the Americans ever learn about wholesale gun ownership?  >:(

Ron.
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #4 on: 14 February 2018, 23:29:43 »


Don't the Americans ever learn about wholesale gun ownership?  >:(

Ron.

Nope. Gun sales will be up tomorrow on fears of increased regulations and the perceived need to protect oneself.  ::)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #5 on: 14 February 2018, 23:43:17 »

They consistently vote, lobby and demonstrate in favour of creating the conditions that allow, or even promote this behaviour.

As a democratic nation they have decided that these incidents are a price worth paying.
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #6 on: 15 February 2018, 00:11:47 »

That would seem to be the case. Although Obama did absolutely nothing to take on the powerful NRA during his two terms.
The mindset seems to be that it is about personal freedom,and if the state has all the weapons it wants but wont allow citizens to carry weapons, then the state is a too big, powerful, and a threat to individual freedom.
I can understand this, up to a point, but surely after all those innocents  have been killed, and their parents having to bury them, the country should accept tighter checks and sensible restrictions on the precious right to bear arms.  :(
An aspect of this which the media rarely seem to investigate is the fact that many of the shooters, (as well as "IS" terrorists), are under the influence of anti depressants, steroids, or cannabis when they carry out their atrocities.
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #7 on: 15 February 2018, 08:36:36 »

Although Obama did absolutely nothing to take on the powerful NRA during his two terms.

I am sure you meant that he tried very hard and despite having a majority in the House of Representatives he was still unable to pass any meaningful legislation on gun control. :y
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #8 on: 15 February 2018, 08:47:22 »


Don't the Americans ever learn about wholesale gun ownership?  >:(

Ron.

Nope. Gun sales will be up tomorrow on fears of increased regulations and the perceived need to protect oneself.  ::)

Spot on.  Being a country bumpkin at heart and ex-mil I like guns.  I like shooting.  I like hunting (for food NOT trophies) I like developing the skill to make a good shot and when I move to the US I fully intend on pursuing target shooting and hunting when the occasion allows.  That said I find the ease of access to weapons which you just have no need for in civil society very alarming.  A good friend of mine out there hunts..... with an AR15! :o  He justifies it by saying that he uses the 5 round mag as per the law for hunting.  My mindset is for one shot one kill.  If I cannot get a good shot that will kill the animal I don't take it.  To that end I do not need anything but a bolt-action single load weapon or better still a bow and arrow (now getting a deer with a bow, that takes skill!).

I always return to the German system for hunting/firearm licenses.  3 year course to get your hunting permit, 2 of which are gun safety and shooting skills.  If ever you screw up, shoot the wrong animal, cause unnecessary suffering, etc you lose it.  Firearm ownership should be a privilege not a right, but the 2nd amendment says otherwise. :-\
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #9 on: 15 February 2018, 09:16:15 »

The sad thing is that with all the weapons owned by the general public, there is still not a single instance of one of those legal gun carriers stopping a massacre or terror attack, yet it is one of the big excuses used for maintaining the right to bear arms :-\ ::)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #10 on: 15 February 2018, 09:29:29 »


An excellent little speach by US Senator Sandy Hook, worth a watch . . .


                                                    THIS HAPPENS NOWHERE ELSE

Mr Trump is pretty quiet on this so far. If it had involved Muslims with beards I think that most Arab countries would have been invaded by now.




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aaronjb

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #11 on: 15 February 2018, 09:31:59 »

The sad thing is that with all the weapons owned by the general public, there is still not a single instance of one of those legal gun carriers stopping a massacre or terror attack, yet it is one of the big excuses used for maintaining the right to bear arms :-\ ::)

Didn't a "good guy with a gun" shoot the bloke who was shooting up a church recently? Although I seem to recall the "bad guy with a gun" had run out of bullets at that point, so.. I see your point!
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #12 on: 15 February 2018, 09:58:07 »

The sad thing is that with all the weapons owned by the general public, there is still not a single instance of one of those legal gun carriers stopping a massacre or terror attack, yet it is one of the big excuses used for maintaining the right to bear arms :-\ ::)

Didn't a "good guy with a gun" shoot the bloke who was shooting up a church recently? Although I seem to recall the "bad guy with a gun" had run out of bullets at that point, so.. I see your point!

The thing is, even when the "good guy with a gun" is a Police trained marksman with a rifle the success rate in terms of stopping terrorist acts BEFORE anyone gets hurt is tiny. For the disinterested punter who picked up a hand gun at the local equivalent of Millets and chucked it in his glove compartment, it's only ever going to end badly.

I'm all for properly vetted people owning and using guns as a sport, and I think it's a shame that a lot of that got killed off in this country in the knee-jerk that followed Dunblane. Any pretence of the public carrying guns as some sort of right to protect themselves is surely laughable. I also don't really see the need for most guns to ever leave the gun club where they are used.

.. and if you're so rubbish at your sport that you need automatic weapons, you probably need to find a new sport. ;D
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #13 on: 15 February 2018, 11:31:23 »

Trouble is, with the threat of litigation being so great, you need to be damn sure that 'taking the shot' to curtail an attack is completely justified.

The risks of then being shot or shooting a bystander notwithstanding.

It's a poor analogy, but at work, we have a permanent team of highly trained fire fighters with the best equipment who can get anywhere on site within 2-4 minutes. In spite of this, everybody on site has to have compulsory annual fire safety training which includes selecting and using a fire extinguisher... With the caveat that we shouldn't tackle anything beyond an office waste bin. Ergo, in spite of training, walking away and raising the alarm is always the preferred option...  ::)

Removing the Second Amendment will, and should never happen. However licensing of gun ownership could be done in a similar way to the issuing of a driving licence, which in the States is generally a staged process. This way, you could only graduate to more powerful/dangerous weapons with formal, regulated training and professional supervision.

Won't stop these types of incidents from occurring, but it might help educate the broader population...
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #14 on: 15 February 2018, 12:03:39 »

Removing the Second Amendment will, and should never happen.

You have to wonder how relevant it is in modern times, however. I suppose we have a similar right but with modern recognition that guns must be tightly controlled, not carried in public and that any use for our "defence" has been contracted-out to competent authorities. ::)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #15 on: 15 February 2018, 12:33:28 »

Old ginger pubes could give guns to all 'the good kids' who could then shoot all 'the bad kids' before they lose the plot and shoot all 'the good kids'.
Hang on.....I think there may be a flaw in the logic somewhere.

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #16 on: 15 February 2018, 12:42:32 »

The American response will be:

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STEMO

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #17 on: 15 February 2018, 13:01:15 »

.....and a vigil....gotta have a vigil.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #18 on: 15 February 2018, 17:19:25 »

Removing the Second Amendment will, and should never happen.

You have to wonder how relevant it is in modern times, however. I suppose we have a similar right but with modern recognition that guns must be tightly controlled, not carried in public and that any use for our "defence" has been contracted-out to competent authorities. ::)

The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.

Bigron is spot on in saying now more Americans will buy guns. With every shooting the average American thinks he must improve his "security" and will not only buy another gun, but probably even upgrade to an AK47, or similar, whilst circumventing State laws on automatics /semi- automatics! That is the American way, and from my experience in the States they will use those guns if provoked.
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #19 on: 15 February 2018, 18:29:36 »

If Trump has dreams of becoming a world statesman with a lasting legacy he could actually be the POTUS who actually makes some real progress on this problem.
It would upset his core supporters, but its never going to make them vote Democrat, and the Democrats would never dream of repealing any laws which lessened the problem, even if it got them votes.
Does he have the imagination and balls to do it ? I wont hold my breath.
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #20 on: 15 February 2018, 18:30:41 »

I was gonna suggest getting a load of them over here to start with the cull.


No doubt some do-gooders will call that heartless.  I say they practice on Opti's gruesome avatar first....
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #21 on: 15 February 2018, 18:56:48 »

If Trump has dreams of becoming a world statesman with a lasting legacy he could actually be the POTUS who actually makes some real progress on this problem.
It would upset his core supporters, but its never going to make them vote Democrat, and the Democrats would never dream of repealing any laws which lessened the problem, even if it got them votes.
Does he have the imagination and balls to do it ? I wont hold my breath.

Well, Trump has given a speech about this terrible event. But he not once mentioned "guns" and instead just stated "mental health" was the issue!

As I said before, there is no chance of anything changing soon, or at all! :'( :'(
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #22 on: 15 February 2018, 19:01:30 »

If Trump has dreams of becoming a world statesman with a lasting legacy he could actually be the POTUS who actually makes some real progress on this problem.
It would upset his core supporters, but its never going to make them vote Democrat, and the Democrats would never dream of repealing any laws which lessened the problem, even if it got them votes.
Does he have the imagination and balls to do it ? I wont hold my breath.

Well, Trump has given a speech about this terrible event. But he not once mentioned "guns" and instead just stated "mental health" was the issue!

As I said before, there is no chance of anything changing soon, or at all! :'( :'(

Lizzie, the 'good ol boys' living deep in the mountains, those married to their sister, would lynch Trump if he tried to part Americans from their guns.

These people hate the government at the best of times.
« Last Edit: 15 February 2018, 19:03:55 by Field Marshal Dr. Opti »
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #23 on: 15 February 2018, 19:06:22 »

No-one is ever going to part them from their guns, but if he stops people with a history of  anti depressants or known to have used illegal drugs, or a history of violence from getting them, then that would be the kind of progress I'm thinking of, which would probably carry the majority of U.S. voters with him.
As I said though, I wont hold my breath.
The good ol boys would certainly stamp their feet, but they aint gonna vote for no goddam Democrat commies no matter what happens.
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STEMO

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #24 on: 15 February 2018, 19:09:05 »

Well......I'm glad you lot have the answers because those Americans don't have a clue. ::)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #25 on: 15 February 2018, 19:09:35 »

No-one is ever going to part them from their guns, but if he stops people with a history of  anti depressants or known to have used illegal drugs, or a history of violence from getting them, then that would be the kind of progress I'm thinking of, which would probably carry the majority of U.S. voters with him.
As I said though, I wont hold my breath.
The good ol boys would certainly stamp their feet, but they aint gonna vote for no goddam Democrat commies no matter what happens.

'Tis true'

I imagine  membership of the KKK might increase though. :)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #26 on: 15 February 2018, 19:16:18 »

These shootings are almost always carried out be students or recent former students who are also almost exclusively male.

Even if gun access was more tightly regulated, you could never eliminate the possibility of such attacks.

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #27 on: 15 February 2018, 19:36:24 »


The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.
  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.


People living in other vast countries with dangerous wildlife and crazy people seem to manage without having an arsenal in their house.  ::)

Canada, Russia, China, Australia, the 'Stans' and various African countries spring to mind.  ;)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #28 on: 15 February 2018, 20:00:43 »


The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.
  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.


People living in other vast countries with dangerous wildlife and crazy people seem to manage without having an arsenal in their house.  ::)

Canada, Russia, China, Australia, the 'Stans' and various African countries spring to mind.  ;)

I agree, but Americans have gone through fighting the native Americans, fighting the British for Independance, fighting each other to win the Wild West, then fight a very bloody Civil War, fighting in gangs which became the Mafia, and fighting to gain criminal power during Probition. They were trained to fight in the Great War, before having another full bash in WW2, followed by Korea and Vietnam, with the need to train to fight when the Cold War went hot. In addition the USA established itself as a World power from 1900, and developed in that context for the American Century, with a great round off with the First Gulf War, Iraq, and Afganistan.  Even Russia with it's revolution has not had that kind of development with the intense need to take up arms over 300+ years, with the forming of a total military State being the cornerstone of American power.  Even the British never had the type of military resource and over whelming military mind of the American.

All my contact with the Americans since my childhood has been through the military route. It is everywhere. The power of the American State is through the military, National Guard, totally armed police, along with even civilian security guards of all types being armed. Unlike the other countries named, the United States is outstanding with it's military orientation, and massive fire power from the kid on the street who can acquire guns, the average suited businessman who buys his guns in Walmart whilst buying milk, to the not so hidden militia who are sworn to fight for their families and State. The official military take it all from there.  No other country to my knowledge has this historical mix and continuing outlook on life.

The Second Amendment protects and encourages all that, and as I have already stated, that will not change in our lifetime, or unless the real and perceived threats to their national identity recede.  I cannot see that happening with the World situation being what it is. The rednecks, with the NRA, will continue to rule.
 
« Last Edit: 15 February 2018, 20:05:59 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #29 on: 15 February 2018, 20:25:16 »


The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.
  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.


People living in other vast countries with dangerous wildlife and crazy people seem to manage without having an arsenal in their house.  ::)

Canada, Russia, China, Australia, the 'Stans' and various African countries spring to mind.  ;)

I agree, but Americans have gone through fighting the native Americans, fighting the British for Independance, fighting each other to win the Wild West, then fight a very bloody Civil War, fighting in gangs which became the Mafia, and fighting to gain criminal power during Probition. They were trained to fight in the Great War, before having another full bash in WW2, followed by Korea and Vietnam, with the need to train to fight when the Cold War went hot. In addition the USA established itself as a World power from 1900, and developed in that context for the American Century, with a great round off with the First Gulf War, Iraq, and Afganistan.  Even Russia with it's revolution has not had that kind of development with the intense need to take up arms over 300+ years, with the forming of a total military State being the cornerstone of American power.  Even the British never had the type of military resource and over whelming military mind of the American.

All my contact with the Americans since my childhood has been through the military route. It is everywhere. The power of the American State is through the military, National Guard, totally armed police, along with even civilian security guards of all types being armed. Unlike the other countries named, the United States is outstanding with it's military orientation, and massive fire power from the kid on the street who can acquire guns, the average suited businessman who buys his guns in Walmart whilst buying milk, to the not so hidden militia who are sworn to fight for their families and State. The official military take it all from there.  No other country to my knowledge has this historical mix and continuing outlook on life.

The Second Amendment protects and encourages all that, and as I have already stated, that will not change in our lifetime, or unless the real and perceived threats to their national identity recede.  I cannot see that happening whilst there's a federal government...
Don't forget, the individual states have their own constitutions and several are commonwealth states in the purest sense of conception. The threat is often perceived to be from Washington DC rather from overseas  ;)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #30 on: 15 February 2018, 20:37:14 »


The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.
  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.


People living in other vast countries with dangerous wildlife and crazy people seem to manage without having an arsenal in their house.  ::)

Canada, Russia, China, Australia, the 'Stans' and various African countries spring to mind.  ;)

I agree, but Americans have gone through fighting the native Americans, fighting the British for Independance, fighting each other to win the Wild West, then fight a very bloody Civil War, fighting in gangs which became the Mafia, and fighting to gain criminal power during Probition. They were trained to fight in the Great War, before having another full bash in WW2, followed by Korea and Vietnam, with the need to train to fight when the Cold War went hot. In addition the USA established itself as a World power from 1900, and developed in that context for the American Century, with a great round off with the First Gulf War, Iraq, and Afganistan.  Even Russia with it's revolution has not had that kind of development with the intense need to take up arms over 300+ years, with the forming of a total military State being the cornerstone of American power.  Even the British never had the type of military resource and over whelming military mind of the American.

All my contact with the Americans since my childhood has been through the military route. It is everywhere. The power of the American State is through the military, National Guard, totally armed police, along with even civilian security guards of all types being armed. Unlike the other countries named, the United States is outstanding with it's military orientation, and massive fire power from the kid on the street who can acquire guns, the average suited businessman who buys his guns in Walmart whilst buying milk, to the not so hidden militia who are sworn to fight for their families and State. The official military take it all from there.  No other country to my knowledge has this historical mix and continuing outlook on life.

The Second Amendment protects and encourages all that, and as I have already stated, that will not change in our lifetime, or unless the real and perceived threats to their national identity recede.  I cannot see that happening whilst there's a federal government...
Don't forget, the individual states have their own constitutions and several are commonwealth states in the purest sense of conception. The threat is often perceived to be from Washington DC rather from overseas  ;)

You are right there DG. My American friends hated their politics and so many of their politicians.  They saw the whole system driven by Dollars; that is what got politicians into the system, far more than their beliefs and the need to do the right thing, always. Washington is a threat to many Americans in it's policies and how people like Trump negatively portray their country, that hurts them as they are very proud of the USA.

It is also the fact that certain States can derail the aims of Congress and the President, and hence why so little changes in policies and, crucially with the subject of this thread, to the Constituation such as the Second Amendment.  :(
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #31 on: 15 February 2018, 20:50:57 »

To be honest I think that's all froth and an attempt to justify what's going on over there.  ::) 

It's the only country where this sort of thing happens on a regular basis and apparently the US has something like 5% of the world's population, but 50% of the guns in civilian hands globally!  :o  And we can waffle on about Militias and the 2nd Amendment as much as we like but the fact is that if they had the sort of gun control laws like other countries, then this would happen less often.  ;)

I went to a gun show once in Texas held in a local community centre and it had the atmosphere of a local church fete!  :o Families wandering around looking at the stuff for sale, kids running around the stalls..... But I wouldn't have let most of them handle a fickin pea shooter.....  :-X  ::)

Window lickers!  :-X. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic!  :(
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #32 on: 15 February 2018, 22:13:35 »


The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.
  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.


People living in other vast countries with dangerous wildlife and crazy people seem to manage without having an arsenal in their house.  ::)

Canada, Russia, China, Australia, the 'Stans' and various African countries spring to mind.  ;)

.. and specifically, I wonder what you're likely to encounter that requires a firearm when you're at School. ::)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #33 on: 15 February 2018, 23:30:17 »

Beyond a hormonal teenage lad with rejection issues...
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #34 on: 16 February 2018, 08:42:41 »

These shootings are almost always carried out be students or recent former students who are also almost exclusively male.

You've found the answer. Stop any male who has ever attended school from owning a gun...
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #35 on: 16 February 2018, 10:20:35 »


The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.
  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.


People living in other vast countries with dangerous wildlife and crazy people seem to manage without having an arsenal in their house.  ::)

Canada, Russia, China, Australia, the 'Stans' and various African countries spring to mind.  ;)

.. and specifically, I wonder what you're likely to encounter that requires a firearm when you're at School. ::)

A nutter who comes in to shoot up the school, and that is how Americans think.

Like it or not, and I certainly do not like it, that is the reality of the USA.  You can make comparisons, discuss moral ideals, and advise from a far on what Americans should do, but it makes damn all difference.  It is their nature for all the reasons I suggested, and probably more like their amazing insecurity that I have noted on many occasions over the years.

I always recall the incident my husband and family almost got involved in outside JFK Airport, New York.  A white redneck objected to a black man taking his place on an a overcrowded hotel bus and without hesitation produced a handgun and said "If you get on that bus you fxxking nxxxxr I'll fxxking shoot you!!"  He meant every word.  That is how easy it is for the gun to be of second nature in any confrontation.  I have seen other examples in the USA, which my ex-military American friends were horrified about, but they just said this is the United States of America and this is what our society is.  They did not possess guns even though they were fully trained to use them, but they were resigned to the status quo.

After all that though I LOVE the USA, and would live in Colorado like tomorrow.  So envious of Guffer! 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #36 on: 16 February 2018, 10:30:50 »

A nutter who comes in to shoot up the school..

Yebbut.. If people didn't bring guns to school... ::)

I must be missing something.

Quote
.. and that is how Americans think.

You sure about that? ;D
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #37 on: 16 February 2018, 11:02:56 »

A nutter who comes in to shoot up the school..

Yebbut.. If people didn't bring guns to school... ::)

I must be missing something.

Quote
.. and that is how Americans think.

You sure about that? ;D

But there is every chance American pupils will bring guns into school because their society outside the school often involves guns.  We in the UK are facing a rise in school children bringing knives into school for the same reason as the American kids; for defence defense.  It is the nutters (and I get your mirth! ;D ;D) on the outside and inside of their schools that produce this fear factor.  Probably why Trump emphasised "Mental Health" in his speech and did not mention guns, or gun control.  You see the American mind is blaming other factors, and not the elephant in the room as that goes to the heart of their culture.

The American kids and the parents are worried about the defense of themselves, which is being echoed in some of the interviews with adults coming out of Florida. Americans think "Defense" about themselves as well as their nation, linking that to possessing guns. That to them must come first beyond everything else, and we in the UK are now not far behind that over stabbings and shootings taking place, although we do not have the gun culture of the USA.   ;)
« Last Edit: 16 February 2018, 11:09:22 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #38 on: 16 February 2018, 11:09:21 »

Our take-up of weaponry isn't home grown, but due to uncontrolled immigratuion and the undesirable elements that it brings with it.
BTW, Lizzie, defenCe = noun; defenSe = verb.

Ron.
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #39 on: 16 February 2018, 11:13:25 »

Our take-up of weaponry isn't home grown, but due to uncontrolled immigratuion and the undesirable elements that it brings with it.
BTW, Lizzie, defenCe = noun; defenSe = verb.

Ron.

But to Americans it is defense every time :D ;)
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #40 on: 16 February 2018, 11:15:16 »

I know, but WE are not Americans and I can't help their ignorance/laziness!

Ron.
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #41 on: 16 February 2018, 11:27:34 »

The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.

Bigron is spot on in saying now more Americans will buy guns. With every shooting the average American thinks he must improve his "security" and will not only buy another gun, but probably even upgrade to an AK47, or similar, whilst circumventing State laws on automatics /semi- automatics! That is the American way, and from my experience in the States they will use those guns if provoked.

Many moons ago when those pesky bow and arrow wielding Indians were out to attack your trusty wagon and horse, I might agree but, things have moved on in the world considerably.

Of course those Pesky bow and arrow wielding Indians then became armed due to the quantity of arms being carried by the people with the wagon and horse which they ultimately obtained as a prize......and from there it appears to have escalated....all be it the basic reason to have firearms has long since been consigned to history!
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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #42 on: 16 February 2018, 12:18:08 »

The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.

Bigron is spot on in saying now more Americans will buy guns. With every shooting the average American thinks he must improve his "security" and will not only buy another gun, but probably even upgrade to an AK47, or similar, whilst circumventing State laws on automatics /semi- automatics! That is the American way, and from my experience in the States they will use those guns if provoked.

Many moons ago when those pesky bow and arrow wielding Indians were out to attack your trusty wagon and horse, I might agree but, things have moved on in the world considerably.

Of course those Pesky bow and arrow wielding Indians then became armed due to the quantity of arms being carried by the people with the wagon and horse which they ultimately obtained as a prize......and from there it appears to have escalated....all be it the basic reason to have firearms has long since been consigned to history!

In quoting me you have missed out all this, which is way beyond anything to do with cowboys and indians, but is all part of their frontier protection history:
"Americans have gone through fighting the native Americans, fighting the British for Independance, fighting each other to win the Wild West, then fight a very bloody Civil War, fighting in gangs which became the Mafia, and fighting to gain criminal power during Probition. They were trained to fight in the Great War, before having another full bash in WW2, followed by Korea and Vietnam, with the need to train to fight when the Cold War went hot. In addition the USA established itself as a World power from 1900, and developed in that context for the American Century, with a great round off with the First Gulf War, Iraq, and Afganistan.  Even Russia with it's revolution has not had that kind of development with the intense need to take up arms over 300+ years, with the forming of a total military State being the cornerstone of American power.  Even the British never had the type of military resource and over whelming military mind of the American.

All my contact with the Americans since my childhood has been through the military route. It is everywhere. The power of the American State is through the military, National Guard, totally armed police, along with even civilian security guards of all types being armed. Unlike the other countries named, the United States is outstanding with it's military orientation, and massive fire power from the kid on the street who can acquire guns, the average suited businessman who buys his guns in Walmart whilst buying milk, to the not so hidden militia who are sworn to fight for their families and State. The official military take it all from there.  No other country to my knowledge has this historical mix and continuing outlook on life."


Now that is a far fuller picture Fuse 19 :y
« Last Edit: 16 February 2018, 12:20:31 by Lizzie Zoom »
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redelitev6

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Re: Yet another shooting at an American school ....
« Reply #43 on: 16 February 2018, 12:34:03 »

The difficulty is this is the United States of America with their history, culture and very huge area of open land where you need some form of defence against wild life, including some crazy people.  In the context, and that is what we in Britain must consider, of the USA it is sensible and logical to carry arms.  When you drive for hundreds of miles through vast areas of open terrority the Second Amendment makes every sense.  You are effectively alone without any security but what an American citizen carries in their automobile.  They have grown up relying on the gun to defend themselves and their family. They always have done, and no matter what us Europeans think and say, will always do so no matter what.

Bigron is spot on in saying now more Americans will buy guns. With every shooting the average American thinks he must improve his "security" and will not only buy another gun, but probably even upgrade to an AK47, or similar, whilst circumventing State laws on automatics /semi- automatics! That is the American way, and from my experience in the States they will use those guns if provoked.

Many moons ago when those pesky bow and arrow wielding Indians were out to attack your trusty wagon and horse, I might agree but, things have moved on in the world considerably.

Of course those Pesky bow and arrow wielding Indians then became armed due to the quantity of arms being carried by the people with the wagon and horse which they ultimately obtained as a prize......and from there it appears to have escalated....all be it the basic reason to have firearms has long since been consigned to history!
You mean these pesky Indians ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RghKdGn8h5A , couldn't resist that blast from the past  :D
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