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[Marks DTM Calib]

Again, as said, refurbing is a different story altogether.

But as we seem to insist on taking the thread that way, I have now seen 3 sets of refurbed wishbones, all 3 on their second set of rear bushes, and all three have exhibited some quite severe ball joint play that I'm sure was not present when refurbed by myself and others capable on here.

Seems to me the ball joint life is not capable of out lasting two sets of rearward bushes!
Therefor, refurbing is arguably not suitable for all members anyway, even if they have a press or whatever else is needed.

Mark your more then capable of coming up with many a way to get a job done, as most prominant members are on here.
With respect to newer members, how much of this refurbing advice is of relevance to them on a DIY basis...?
Yes we'll help out where possible, but you've said yourself you wouldn't fit £50 wb's with stock bushes. Bugger that.

 

The problem is were not as we know very well that the lemforder front bushes are as rubbish as the cheap ones 

I'm gob smacked your saying that at all. Yours lasted two years...? A shorter life than expected true enough.
But I see it that yours lasted less than the average for Lemforder. We will get a longer average life from Lemforder than cheapo's.
Can i ask, where did you get your Lemforders? Betting on euro car parts..? But wherever, would 6 to 9 months on the shelf account for early failure?

Mine came from autovaux, they lasted two years which was 12K miles (6K per year) with er indoors driving most of them (so not my full on driving). This is the same life as I got from the cheap ones before them (hence why I fitted lemforders as I hoped they would be better than the cheap ones).

Interestingly, the set on mine were made up of original wishbones plus Vx rear bushes and the Merle fronts which lasted ok.

I cant see a rubber item deteriorating to any significant degree in 6 months on a shelf.

[feeutfo]

I should also add, as the details come back to me, the cheapo wishbones where exceptionally difficult to get low enough to locate the ball joint in the Knuckle. And hence to remove the poxy things as well.

I dont think Colin appreciates the advice not to fit Lemforder.


Ok, we have to accept these are service items, but let's give newer members a fighting chance of a result. The odds are against them with these poxy items. Fitting as awkward enough without refurbing as well. Colin needs the car for the family, it's deepest darkest winter, and he's never done the job before. Advising cheapie parts is not helping anyone!

Having pollied several cars recently it's blatantly obvious the front bushes are very differant in that most cheepy WB's I see don't even have oil bladders in them. There is some real shite out there being passed off as oe quality. It's not, they're crap.

[feeutfo]

Again, as said, refurbing is a different story altogether.

But as we seem to insist on taking the thread that way, I have now seen 3 sets of refurbed wishbones, all 3 on their second set of rear bushes, and all three have exhibited some quite severe ball joint play that I'm sure was not present when refurbed by myself and others capable on here.

Seems to me the ball joint life is not capable of out lasting two sets of rearward bushes!
Therefor, refurbing is arguably not suitable for all members anyway, even if they have a press or whatever else is needed.

Mark your more then capable of coming up with many a way to get a job done, as most prominant members are on here.
With respect to newer members, how much of this refurbing advice is of relevance to them on a DIY basis...?
Yes we'll help out where possible, but you've said yourself you wouldn't fit £50 wb's with stock bushes. Bugger that.

 

The problem is were not as we know very well that the lemforder front bushes are as rubbish as the cheap ones 

I'm gob smacked your saying that at all. Yours lasted two years...? A shorter life than expected true enough.
But I see it that yours lasted less than the average for Lemforder. We will get a longer average life from Lemforder than cheapo's.
Can i ask, where did you get your Lemforders? Betting on euro car parts..? But wherever, would 6 to 9 months on the shelf account for early failure?

Mine came from autovaux, they lasted two years which was 12K miles (6K per year) with er indoors driving most of them (so not my full on driving). This is the same life as I got from the cheap ones before them (hence why I fitted lemforders as I hoped they would be better than the cheap ones).

Interestingly, the set on mine were made up of original wishbones plus Vx rear bushes and the Merle fronts which lasted ok.

I cant see a rubber item deteriorating to any significant degree in 6 months on a shelf.

hmmm, so we trust autovaux?

I wouldn't leave tyres on a shelf in sun light for 6 months without covering them. But without a date stamp we'll never know thier age anyway.

I also can't help wonder re certain suppliers, ESP given the ones you kindly pressed for us all at Newent lasted no problem. Mine failed eventually with ball joint play.

I'm certain all German turn thier wb's around and out the door pretty damn quick. Although I wonder if Andy got his from Jason...?

[Marks DTM Calib]

The ones from Autovaux I would guess as being pretty fresh, they were not off the shelf as they were awaiting re-stock from Germany at the time (there were quite a few of us buying from them around this period I seem to recall as I also rated them better due to them being an OEM supplier and the original fit lasting so well). I recall Matchless buying a set and being sent to left hand ones and having to wait for the correct one to arrive (seem to recall they also didn't ask for the incorrect part back)

I have, as you are aware, since come to the conclusion that they are not worth the money based on the results I have seen.

I still wont back Lemforder as there is nothing to stop them arriving with a manufacturing defect such as you have seen on the pattern ones..... 

[Elite Pete]

Would it not be worth the forum selling wishbones with the bushes done. Buy the cheap ones off Ebay, remove cheap bushes and replace front with poly and rear with genuine and charge say £150 a pair. I've got the use of a good press and i'll be doing another set next week so don't mind doing them. Just a thought

[Seth]

Also, I've just remembered, (der) Colin's failed the the Mot on...

...worn steering knuckle ball joint. So couldn't have refurbed the originals if he'd wanted to. Which he didn't.

What about the bolt on replacement balljoint. Strictly speaking, the whole wishbone is 'repairable' with GM parts. I suppose it's down to quick exchange though to minimise time off road, unless you have some spare one's to rebuild. All down to available facilities as already mentioned. Just a thought.

Regards
Alan

Yes the ball joints can be bolted on. Although I won't be trusting them personally. Nylocs and all that lateral load... Nah ta. They'll probably be fine tbh, but not for me.

But can we consider poor Colin for a minute? From what I gather it took a good portion of the day to fit both sides. We all know what it's like first time we do wishbones. It's awkward enough without rather about with cutting,  pressing, fitting, bushes. Grinding rivets off, fitting ball joints.
Yes only the ball joint failed, but does he trust the tester to spot a failed wishbone bush? No. And rightly so. If the ball joints gone, then so are the bushes. The tester just missed them.


So we have fubar ball joints and bushes. What do we do?

When this occurs on any Omega that's brought here for rectification, it gets new Lemforder 'bones (from AllGerman), with poly-bushed front ends.
No 'if or but' - and the owner's under no mis-apprehension about this policy before work starts.

[feeutfo]

Also, I've just remembered, (der) Colin's failed the the Mot on...

...worn steering knuckle ball joint. So couldn't have refurbed the originals if he'd wanted to. Which he didn't.

What about the bolt on replacement balljoint. Strictly speaking, the whole wishbone is 'repairable' with GM parts. I suppose it's down to quick exchange though to minimise time off road, unless you have some spare one's to rebuild. All down to available facilities as already mentioned. Just a thought.

Regards
Alan

Yes the ball joints can be bolted on. Although I won't be trusting them personally. Nylocs and all that lateral load... Nah ta. They'll probably be fine tbh, but not for me.

But can we consider poor Colin for a minute? From what I gather it took a good portion of the day to fit both sides. We all know what it's like first time we do wishbones. It's awkward enough without rather about with cutting,  pressing, fitting, bushes. Grinding rivets off, fitting ball joints.
Yes only the ball joint failed, but does he trust the tester to spot a failed wishbone bush? No. And rightly so. If the ball joints gone, then so are the bushes. The tester just missed them.


So we have fubar ball joints and bushes. What do we do?

When this occurs on any Omega that's brought here for rectification, it gets new Lemforder 'bones (from AllGerman), with poly-bushed front ends.
No 'if or but' - and the owner's under no mis-apprehension about this policy before work starts.

Seems logical to me Seth.

Obviously if refurb is viable for that particular member then all the better, if they fancy it.

[feeutfo]

Would it not be worth the forum selling wishbones with the bushes done. Buy the cheap ones off Ebay, remove cheap bushes and replace front with poly and rear with genuine and charge say £150 a pair. I've got the use of a good press and i'll be doing another set next week so don't mind doing them. Just a thought

I wondered if we could get all German to supply with front bushes missing? Not likely I guess, but would make life easier for newer members, and might be cheaper...?


Nah, who am I kidding?

[YZ250]

I dont think Colin appreciates the advice not to fit Lemforder.

Fair play to Colin for doing the job himself.    As said, he did everything correctly but was let down by an inferior part. It's just a shame that Vauxhall charge around £500 for a pair of wishbones. They would have sold many many more if the price was more realistic.

Regards
Alan

[VXL V6]

Well my first set of Poly's have arrived from Larkspeed....

But I need to sort the crankshaft pulley first 

[razzo]

rear bush on wishbone now replaced



 

[feeutfo]

I dont think Colin appreciates the advice not to fit Lemforder.

Fair play to Colin for doing the job himself.    As said, he did everything correctly but was let down by an inferior part. It's just a shame that Vauxhall charge around £500 for a pair of wishbones. They would have sold many many more if the price was more realistic.

Regards
Alan

Indeed, bless him. Let's hope he can re coupe his losses.

Re vx wb's, there is supposed to be a theory lemforders are the same part, as we know. In fact it's possible to see where the vx/gm logo has been partly/mostly removed from the Lemforder parts. Rear donuts as well.

£235 a side for genuine vx bones is bloody rediculous IMO too.
More than some cars are worth, although I don't subscribe to the car value v parts equation personally, some certainly do. Which may well guide them to buy the cheapest parts available.
I guess we don't know what life to expect from the current crop of genuine vx wb's either, seeing as nobody seems to buy them and keep the car long enough to wear them out...?

[henryd]

I dont think Colin appreciates the advice not to fit Lemforder.

Fair play to Colin for doing the job himself.    As said, he did everything correctly but was let down by an inferior part. It's just a shame that Vauxhall charge around £500 for a pair of wishbones. They would have sold many many more if the price was more realistic.

Regards
Alan

Indeed, bless him. Let's hope he can re coupe his losses.

Re vx wb's, there is supposed to be a theory lemforders are the same part, as we know. In fact it's possible to see where the vx/gm logo has been partly/mostly removed from the Lemforder parts. Rear donuts as well.

£235 a side for genuine vx bones is bloody rediculous IMO too.
More than some cars are worth, although I don't subscribe to the car value v parts equation personally, some certainly do. Which may well guide them to buy the cheapest parts available.
I guess we don't know what life to expect from the current crop of genuine vx wb's either, seeing as nobody seems to buy them and keep the car long enough to wear them out...?

My Omega had a set of genuine bones fitted about 12 months before I got it and they were still spot on when I sold it 2.5 years on although milage was only 25k or so,my work lane however is over half a mile long and potholed to hell and the Mig thundered up and down that several times a day so they had a good workout

[VXL V6]

I suppose the problem is that these vehicles are low value, so to a lot of people putting genuine wishbones on at the price they sell for isn't always the best solution.

For those who prefer a 'tighter' handling the polybushing of a cheaper wishbone seems a far better option as long as the rear bush and ball joint are of good quality.

[TheBoy]

There was a Q earlier about how long do GM bushes last.


I've had the Silver Bullet just over 8 years.  It was around 5yrs old when I got it.

I had to change the front wishbones (and shocks at same time) within the first year of my ownership. I used Genuine GM, as they were around £70 per side, retail.  Estimating around 95k, service history suggests this was first time they were replaced.

Marks DTM Calib rebushed those around the early summer of 2008 (? - the same year the 'press' got broken at Newent), which I would guess would be approx 150k, using genuine GM bushes. Front bushes failed last summer (175k approx), now polyed.

*May* have a small amount of balljoint play on one side, not bad for 7yrs, and 90k.  Although its clear as the car ages, the bushes don't last as long. Extra pressures on them as other components wear, or simply poorer parts?

Not sure if driven style plays that big a part, probably more stresses on it tottling down a country road, than caneing it up round roundabouts etc 


What would I do now?

Probably, as my GMs still remain rust free, I'd probably rebush the rears with GM, poly the front, and if necessary, replace the balljoint.  If my wishbones were pattern, I'd probably go quality, eg Lemforder, poly the front immediately, and look to rebush the rear on failure, using a GM bush.  Assuming I can find a nice man with a press, and drag him away from his Hornby set for long enough