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[hercules]

what is it nowadays with war and death,there is no winner 

[cem_devecioglu]

we are all meant to be equal in the eyes of God,

That depends on what God is worshipped

There is only one God as worshipped by the major world religions

That god is OIL, Texas tea.,but in a few more years the most fought over commodity will be water.

But in the words of the Ukrainian/russian fighter. Whoops ive done it now.

or Money..

[tunnie]

Can a 777 detect an inbound missile? Think they can only pick up things which give off a signal like another plane. 

[05omegav6]

we are all meant to be equal in the eyes of God,

That depends on what God is worshipped

Ah yes good old fashioned perspective...

[05omegav6]

Can a 777 detect an inbound missile? Think they can only pick up things which give off a signal like another plane. 

Only if the missile was fitted with a transponder. The only radar capability a commercial aircraft has is weather focused, looking for thunderstorms and windshear rather than supersonic missiles...

[Rods2]

Does anyone one the ground actually have the facilities to reliably take down an airliner at 30,000 feet...

Also a long time between when the plane disappeared to the announcement, about three hours and no confirmation that the aircraft that crashed is actually the one that went missing....

Nevertheless there's another 300 or so families waiting for news

Russia has been supplying advanced SAM systems to the Russian terrorists including a Buk system which can certainly shoot down an aircraft at 32,000ft as part of large armoured columns they have sent across the border. Terrorist announced shooting down Ukrainian AN-29 as this is what they thought they had shot down, when it was the Malaysian Boeing.

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-150-ukrainian-troops-describe-grad-rocket-attack-from-russia/

The Russians have been directly involved with a major escalating in Ukraine since EU agreement was signed at the end of June. I did report on here what was happening with major movements of Russian armour into Ukraine.

Russia has taken as a signal that the west has no interest in what is happening on their doorstep in Ukraine where all they have done is a few feeble sanctions on individuals and they have even squabbled over this.

Russia has also been firing Grad rockets from their territory at Ukrainian troops. There is a war in East Ukraine, using Russian supplied equipment to irregular Russian forces.

The global political vacuum happening as a result of the US under Obummer having no foreign policy may well start WWIII.

Where the Western press have got tired and been pretty much ignoring East Ukraine, this is now going to become centre stage again. The weak west and our appeasement along with Obummers useless red-lines means the US is being treated with contempt by Russia and their backed forces.

We now have 5 major conflicts going on simultaneously in Ukraine, in Libya with a full military invasion of Tripoli this evening, Syria, Iraq and Gaza.

The situation is much more complex than simply oil.

Dick Cheney saying Obummer is much worse than Carter, who was previously classed as the worst US president in living memory says it all.

If you want to follow what is happening will the most up to date news on the various conflicts. Go onto this twitter feed. I'm following many twitter feeds over Ukraine, world class academics on Eastern Europe with their blogs, Eastern European Government agency websites, their equivalents of Reuters and some facebook pages, which keeps me much more informed with what is going on than you can find in any MSM.

https://twitter.com/rConflictNews

The information is out there if you make the effort to find it.

[Rods2]

A view from one of the global experts, which has just hit my inbox, he has this blog and has been involved with briefing UK MP's on the Ukrainian conflict. He knows his stuff.

http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/reasons-why-malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-probably-shot-down-by-a-rebel-missile-and-why-this-mean-the-rebels-have-lost/

Lizzie and a few others might be interested in this document by a Russian staff officer in a Russian military journal, which describes Russian 21st century non-linear warfare.

http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/07/06/the-gerasimov-doctrine-and-russian-non-linear-war/

[Steve B]

A view from one of the global experts, which has just hit my inbox, he has this blog and has been involved with briefing UK MP's on the Ukrainian conflict. He knows his stuff.

http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/reasons-why-malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-probably-shot-down-by-a-rebel-missile-and-why-this-mean-the-rebels-have-lost/

Lizzie and a few others might be interested in this document by a Russian staff officer in a Russian military journal, which describes Russian 21st century non-linear warfare.

http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/07/06/the-gerasimov-doctrine-and-russian-non-linear-war/

Good read that was 

[omega3000]

So why if it was shot down was there no trailing fire or smoke  The videos show smoke on impact only 

[Rods2]

So why if it was shot down was there no trailing fire or smoke  The videos show smoke on impact only 

The height the aircraft was shot down was 33,000ft which is 6.25 miles high. This means that it will travel a long distance before crashing leaving a path of debris on the way as it disintegrates. This can be quite easily calculated from cruise speed and height and will be, where they know the approximate location of the terrorists Buk SAM system. I also don't know what the rocket burn time and acceleration is to know to what height the SAM system will leave a trail, plus there has been a trend to reduce SAM launch smoke trails as it makes it easier to spot by a pilot, with the most modern using smokeless engines.

Like the Korean aircraft shot down by Russia and the Iranian one by the US, this is going to have big global repercussions. East Ukraine is no long a backwater conflict that can be ignored.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/when-you-mess-with-civilian-airliners-you-mess-with-the-world-82285f15cc5a

[05omegav6]

I suppose Ukrainian terrorism and Barrack Obamas limp wrist were both to blame for the train crash in French France this evening and for Israels invasion of Gaza too...

[05omegav6]

Just as likely to be an Al Qaeda effort...

[chrisgixer]

Any thoughts on why the plane was flying over a war zone? No mention n the media.

Ah, just mentioned as I type.

[Varche]

Any thoughts on why the plane was flying over a war zone? No mention n the media.

Ah, just mentioned as I type.

33,000 feet above a combat zone of ground troops was deemed OK. Some airlines avoided the area.

Hopefully the West will now wake up as the combatants have crossed a line. I know it will cost US money as taxpayers but we ought to be in the Ukraine now helping sweep out the Rebels and helping Ukraine return to peace. It will be interesting to see what the UK COBRA meeting this a.m. comes up with. Camerons new cabinet and team are having a baptism of fire. The first thing to do would be to give five minutes warning of unmanned drone strikes on all buk SAM equipment on the ground in the Ukraine.

While we are on the subject, it is about time "the West" stepped into the other killing and displacing zones of the world. It is also totally unnaceptable what is happening in Israel and Palestine, Syria and Libya. Not just the killing but also the millions and millions of refugees. Where would you go if your country was a daily battle ground?

[Lizzie_Zoom]

A view from one of the global experts, which has just hit my inbox, he has this blog and has been involved with briefing UK MP's on the Ukrainian conflict. He knows his stuff.

http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/reasons-why-malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-probably-shot-down-by-a-rebel-missile-and-why-this-mean-the-rebels-have-lost/

Lizzie and a few others might be interested in this document by a Russian staff officer in a Russian military journal, which describes Russian 21st century non-linear warfare.

http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/07/06/the-gerasimov-doctrine-and-russian-non-linear-war/

Very interesting, thanks Rods

I like the crux of his argument which he sums up as:

"For me, this is probably the most important line in the whole piece, so allow me to repeat it: The role of nonmilitary means of achieving political and strategic goals has grown, and, in many cases, they have exceeded the power of force of weapons in their effectiveness. In other words, this is an explicit recognition not only that all conflicts are actually means to political ends–the actual forces used are irrelevant–but that in the modern realities, Russia must look to non-military instruments increasingly."

The highlighted sentence is so true. It probably always has been, even in the gun boat diplomacy age. A Machiavellian approach is really what war has been about for centuries, but when you think of the actions of WW2 it is very clear.  The mass bombing of Germany; the USSR sacrificing 100's of thousands of it's soldiers in it's drive against the German Army; Japanese suicidal military drives which threw bodies into the interests of the common goal, are all examples of the end justifying the means, or that was the common argument such as with"Bomber" Harris.  In WW1 the same "means justifies the end" was the unspoken thought as Haig drove towards Victory.

However, the Russian General has successfully explained a new world fact: diplomatic might has exceeded physical military might and is now used after a war has actually started. How different from the past. To me this is due to the perceived strength of organisations like the UN and NATO.  They are the 21st century "gun boat", but personally I doubt the ability of International law to be implemented let alone upheld. Those organisations still rely on the teeth of the USA, and how the US views any breach of International law, along with if they want to get involved, now declining to isolationism, rules really whether or not International law is going to be upheld.  This is exactly what Russia is currently relying on in Ukraine, as it did with the Crimea.

There are of course echo's here of 1939 and how Hitler gambled, and chanced his way into 'acquiring territory' for the Third Reich, hoping that Great Britain would do nothing, and certainly not declare war on Germany as it did. Putin, no Hitler I believe, is gambling on the USA not wanting to intervene and is relying on diplomatic argument to re-acquire Russian lands, as viewed by him.

In short the Russian General has it about right in his interesting, and revealing, piece.