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[tigers_gonads]

here is that telephone conversation thing they are talking about

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28363169

Listening to those words and if it is proved to be genuine then the arrogant pricks have just lost any credibility with the world 

[tunnie]

...and into that if they can prove it was a Russian bit of kit that brought the plane down. 

[tigers_gonads]

...and into that if they can prove it was a Russian bit of kit that brought the plane down. 

99% chance it was Russian kit Tunnie as all sides have pretty much the same 

The only question left is which side pressed the button 

[05omegav6]

...and into that if they can prove it was a Russian bit of kit that brought the plane down. 

99% chance it was Russian kit Tunnie as all sides have pretty much the same 

The only question left is which side pressed the button 

Good money on the Chinese...

[cem_devecioglu]

there is a serious disorder in ukraine..  and in that mess, I think some could easily exploit the situation..


and a civil plane crash could take the whole attention to that area with many consequences.. 


so imo question is who would desire a situation like that

[Rods2]

Video showing the Buk SAM launcher in Krasnodon where it has been withdrawn across the border into Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mICnsgEY7wE

The Russian Terrorists in Ukraine are passing the Black Boxes across to their controllers in Russia, so don't hold your breath on anybody getting the original data.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Video showing the Buk SAM launcher in Krasnodon where it has been withdrawn across the border into Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mICnsgEY7wE

The Russian Terrorists in Ukraine are passing the Black Boxes across to their controllers in Russia, so don't hold your breath on anybody getting the original data.

Yep, and as shown on BBC News it has two missiles, out of the four they are equipped with, missing.

[Entwood]

Video showing the Buk SAM launcher in Krasnodon where it has been withdrawn across the border into Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mICnsgEY7wE

The Russian Terrorists in Ukraine are passing the Black Boxes across to their controllers in Russia, so don't hold your breath on anybody getting the original data.

Yep, and as shown on BBC News it has two missiles, out of the four they are equipped with, missing.

so one went on this ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28345039

and the other ??  Although the rebels "claim" to have shot down two fighters ... I expect that will be their excuse for the 2 missing missiles ..

[Lizzie_Zoom]

President Obama has now stated clearly that a missile brought the plane down after being fired from an area of Ukraine controlled by Pro-Russian separatists.

He is after answers and assistance from Putin, and that reaction will now detirmine what else happens.

80 children died in the crash according to BBC reports.

My God is man not finished with war??!!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Yet again I feel I must remind us all of the following:

The Essence of Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679)

As Thomas Hobbes rightly summed up:

"Hereby it is manifest , that during the time men live without common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in a condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man.  For WARRE , consisteth not in Battell onely, or the act of fighting; but in a tract of time, wherein the Will to contend by Battell is sufficiently known: and therefore the notion of Time, is to be considered in the nature of Warre; as it is in the nature of Weather. For as the nature of Foul weather , lyeth not in a showre or two of rain; but in an an inclination thereto of many dayes together: So the nature of War, consisteth not in actual fighting: but in the known disposition thereto, during all the time there is no assurance to the contrary.  All other time is PEACE."

Hobbes, T. Leviathan pp. 185, 186 Penguin (1651)

Overall a warning from history for the future you could say;  BUT IS ANY MAN LISTENING??!!

Will man not be satisfied until all the children, the love issue of a woman and her gift to life, are dead, our future destroyed?!

[PhilRich]

Video showing the Buk SAM launcher in Krasnodon where it has been withdrawn across the border into Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mICnsgEY7wE

The Russian Terrorists in Ukraine are passing the Black Boxes across to their controllers in Russia, so don't hold your breath on anybody getting the original data.

Yep, and as shown on BBC News it has two missiles, out of the four they are equipped with, missing.

I counted THREE seperate top stabiliser fins on that Launcher with the third missile from the left missing

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Video showing the Buk SAM launcher in Krasnodon where it has been withdrawn across the border into Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mICnsgEY7wE

The Russian Terrorists in Ukraine are passing the Black Boxes across to their controllers in Russia, so don't hold your breath on anybody getting the original data.

Yep, and as shown on BBC News it has two missiles, out of the four they are equipped with, missing.

I counted THREE seperate top stabiliser fins on that Launcher with the third missile from the left missing

Look again and you will see two missing

[Rods2]

Locals have reported two explosions in the air followed by an explosion as it hit the ground.

Lavrov Putin's Foreign minister henchman has said today that it is all Ukraine's fault for defending their territory against the Russian terrorists and Russia is now considering direct strikes against Ukraine.

Russia is now trying to turn the indefensible to their advantage, in their pursuit of annexing East Ukraine, not that their is any deterrent, with Obummer and the EU both being evasive on any action including further sanctions.

Even the Kremlin's international propaganda channel RT is struggling with their propaganda on this one, where Western employees have been regularly resigning over their reporting standards, including another one today, where they are expected to constantly spread the Kremlin view on what the world and events should look like.

http://www.interpretermag.com/rt-covers-the-shooting-down-of-mh17/

[Shackeng]

there is a serious disorder in ukraine..  and in that mess, I think some could easily exploit the situation..


and a civil plane crash could take the whole attention to that area with many consequences.. 


so imo question is who would desire a situation like that

The person who thinks he will benefit from the re-imposition of a Cold War, because he has no thought of the benefit of his people, only his own power and self-aggrandisement

[cem_devecioglu]

President Obama has now stated clearly that a missile brought the plane down after being fired from an area of Ukraine controlled by Pro-Russian separatists.

that very same president Obama told the israil that he is supporting to bomb the palestinians where there are children..


so really cant distinguish what he wants.. war or peace