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[cleggy]

Just had an interesting conversation with a neighbour who works for National Power, he plans for future installation, e.g Cross Rail new Power sources coming onto the grid. He said he was very busy because of major wind farm development. He agreed with me that they were not only a blot on the landscape but totally useless, so why do we carry on with this stupidity instead of Nuclear and coal with CO2 scrubbers?
His reasoning makes such common sense. The landowners are making fortunes from the subsidies and who owns the land? you've got it, our Lords and Polical Masters. When the gravy train bubble bursts and the subsidies stop then these useless monstrosities will be removed. Now who is going to get the compensation for their removal, the same landowners who got the millions to install them.
Just to rub salt into the wound, who owns the companies that build and will remove them, the same landowners who got the money to install and remove them.
Something is seriously with this country, third world corruption is a minor compared to these upright and noble lords and gentry.

[Terbs]

Well said mate

[ronnyd]

As Dave Cameron said, "we are all in it together", My arse.

[Taxi_Driver]

I went to local wind farm....a couple of years back.....they have 5 turbines....that can produce 1.5MW each.....ok i know thats the upper limit if they get the wind.....but the one i was inside....according to the displays at the time was generating 1.2MW....it was a private venture with shareholders....they had planning permission for the turbines to be there for 15 years and then had to be taken down....according to blurb....the 5 turbines cost 15 million to put up and that included the removal of them in 15 years....if the goverment at the time was stupid to pay them 45p/unit they produce then good luck to them..... just saying like 

[cleggy]

I went to local wind farm....a couple of years back.....they have 5 turbines....that can produce 1.5MW each.....ok i know thats the upper limit if they get the wind.....but the one i was inside....according to the displays at the time was generating 1.2MW....it was a private venture with shareholders....they had planning permission for the turbines to be there for 15 years and then had to be taken down....according to blurb....the 5 turbines cost 15 million to put up and that included the removal of them in 15 years....if the goverment at the time was stupid to pay them 45p/unit they produce then good luck to them..... just saying like 

The government doesn't pay them WE DO

[Taxi_Driver]

I went to local wind farm....a couple of years back.....they have 5 turbines....that can produce 1.5MW each.....ok i know thats the upper limit if they get the wind.....but the one i was inside....according to the displays at the time was generating 1.2MW....it was a private venture with shareholders....they had planning permission for the turbines to be there for 15 years and then had to be taken down....according to blurb....the 5 turbines cost 15 million to put up and that included the removal of them in 15 years....if the goverment at the time was stupid to pay them 45p/unit they produce then good luck to them..... just saying like 

The government doesn't pay them WE DO

If you mean in taxes...then we pay for everything anyway....

[Rods2]

I agree with your sentiments on wind farms and solar power, especially wind power, but there are some interesting developments on the horizon, especially for solar power will make the panels much cheaper to make, longer lasting and more efficient, using nano-particles. The most efficient panels currently made are very, very expensive and are therefore only used on satellites but they are about 23% efficiency on photon to electron conversion. The new nano particle panels will have this efficiency and the same or cheaper manufacturing costs as current mass market panels. They expect this new generation will bring the price down per kwh to be competitive with traditional sources of power.

This is of course fine during daylight hours, but not much use at night, but this problem is also close to being solved. Firstly with Vanadium based massive long lasting batteries which are close to being mass produced. Longer term there are other technologies in their early development stages that will use the same principle that animals use for storing energy and converting it into electricity, they are looking at these lasting 50-100 years before they need replacing.

So, although I agree that far too much of our money has been spent too early on renewable power sources especially wind power, by and for the ruling class, like all things where there is a global effort to solve the problems, rapid progress will be made in the next 10 years to do this, so potentially all of our electricity needs will be supplied by solar panels.

In the meantime, we should be fracking like mad so we are not reliant of increasing unstable suppliers of energy from many rogue terrorist supporting states in the Middle East and Russia and also developing Thorium nuclear power, so we have a mix of solutions to cover where fossil fuels are becoming more expensive to extract and will be in serious decline within the next 20 to 40 years.

With Russia now having a president that is turning it into a rogue, pariah state, Europe needs some serious plans and developments over the next 5 years to wean ourselves off these supplies or to accept that Russia is going to have most of Western Europe by the scruff of the neck dancing to whatever political tune Putin wishes to play.

Putin, since his divorce and his daughters leaving home, so he has no close family, is turning into a much blacker person, with no signs that this is not going to continue or get much worse. Think Victor Mildew on steroids with nuclear codes.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I agree with your sentiments on wind farms and solar power, especially wind power, but there are some interesting developments on the horizon, especially for solar power will make the panels much cheaper to make, longer lasting and more efficient, using nano-particles. The most efficient panels currently made are very, very expensive and are therefore only used on satellites but they are about 23% efficiency on photon to electron conversion. The new nano particle panels will have this efficiency and the same or cheaper manufacturing costs as current mass market panels. They expect this new generation will bring the price down per kwh to be competitive with traditional sources of power.

This is of course fine during daylight hours, but not much use at night, but this problem is also close to being solved. Firstly with Vanadium based massive long lasting batteries which are close to being mass produced. Longer term there are other technologies in their early development stages that will use the same principle that animals use for storing energy and converting it into electricity, they are looking at these lasting 50-100 years before they need replacing.

So, although I agree that far too much of our money has been spent too early on renewable power sources especially wind power, by and for the ruling class, like all things where there is a global effort to solve the problems, rapid progress will be made in the next 10 years to do this, so potentially all of our electricity needs will be supplied by solar panels.

In the meantime, we should be fracking like mad so we are not reliant of increasing unstable suppliers of energy from many rogue terrorist supporting states in the Middle East and Russia and also developing Thorium nuclear power, so we have a mix of solutions to cover where fossil fuels are becoming more expensive to extract and will be in serious decline within the next 20 to 40 years.

With Russia now having a president that is turning it into a rogue, pariah state, Europe needs some serious plans and developments over the next 5 years to wean ourselves off these supplies or to accept that Russia is going to have most of Western Europe by the scruff of the neck dancing to whatever political tune Putin wishes to play.

Putin, since his divorce and his daughters leaving home, so he has no close family, is turning into a much blacker person, with no signs that this is not going to continue or get much worse. Think Victor Mildew on steroids with nuclear codes.

Thing is Rods, I can guarantee you that you cant even begin to imagine the scale of what is required energy storage wise to get close to flattening the renewables energy delivery curve so it can be even considered a base load power source.

The only technology that can get close to the storage needed is the likes of hydrogen fuel cells, the problem is, no one has worked out how to crack the hydrogen well in the first place!

[Rods2]

Vanadium battery technology.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27829874

[biggriffin]

Mmm. Why not make all industrial units put solar panels on the roofs.