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[Lizzie Zoom]

The march of the electric car has taken another step forward:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40718892

I have often said in 25 years all cars will be electric (apart from classics such as the Omega!! ), but now perhaps earlier?

[tunnie]

I have often said in 25 years all cars will be electric (apart from classics such as the Omega!! ), but now perhaps earlier?

It won't happen, 100% battery power is not the answer, petrol and diesel will continue to get cleaner and cleaner. Battery cars will continue as a "bit on the side" - with main bread and butter being petrol and diesel.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Hydrogen is the future. Electric cars have been around for a century or more.

I'm working on teleportation.

[Viral_Jim]

Hydrogen is the future. Electric cars have been around for a century or more.

I'm working on teleportation.

Yup, and making hydrogen is the perfect use for the renewable energy that's made in the middle of the night when no-one wants to use it.

[minifreek]

With an announcement, not that long ago from Volvo where they are not going to produce petrol engined cars after 2018 (?), I reckon that petrol engined cars will be left behind and the hybrid's will be the future... Once hybrid's become the 'norm' Hyrdrogen engined cars will be the future.... I reckon it'll be within the next 50 years that hybrids and hydrogen engined cars will be the 'norm'...

Electric only cars would need to be able to do long distance - say 400 miles on a single charge, before they become popular enough to weed out the hybrid's....

[frostbite]

That yanks have been running diesels with hydrogen for years, whether it works is the question

There are loads of e300 td on hydrogen vids on youtube

[Nick W]

With an announcement, not that long ago from Volvo where they are not going to produce petrol engined cars after 2018 (?), I reckon that petrol engined cars will be left behind and the hybrids will be the future... Once hybrids become the 'norm' Hydrogen engined cars will be the future.... I reckon it'll be within the next 50 years that hybrids and hydrogen engined cars will be the 'norm'...

No, Volvo announced that they're not going to DESIGN I/C engined cars after 2020. But that's pure marketing wank as they've just finished replacing their entire range with brand new designs, which includes new I/C engines. They're set for years, as their models have always had long lives. They already sell hybrids.


As always, it's infrastructure that matters: supplying large amounts of hydrogen requires lots of electricity to separate it, fully electric vehicles require a good supply of electricity to charge the batteries(which are another problem) and fossil fuels have to be separated from the crude oil. None of those are things you would willingly implement from scratch. I didn't include hybrids in that list as they are at best a stopgap - they are a political solution to an engineering problem, and we all know how good those are!

[Viral_Jim]

Electric only cars would need to be able to do long distance - say 400 miles on a single charge, before they become popular enough to weed out the hybrid's....

Tesla will be at that benchmark within the next 2yrs I reckon, they're at 335 NEDC already. Admittedly that's an exotic super car, but you only have to look at how the tech filters down, inside of 10yrs 350-400will be the norm.

The other thing I think is about education. Realistically, very few people need 300+ miles of range if you have space to charge at home. I commuted to the far side of bedford today from Kidderminster, 220 mile round trip. I would say that the number of people who go much further in a day (other than occasional trips) is pretty limited.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Electric only cars would need to be able to do long distance - say 400 miles on a single charge, before they become popular enough to weed out the hybrid's....

Tesla will be at that benchmark within the next 2yrs I reckon, they're at 335 NEDC already. Admittedly that's an exotic super car, but you only have to look at how the tech filters down, inside of 10yrs 350-400will be the norm.

The other thing I think is about education. Realistically, very few people need 300+ miles of range if you have space to charge at home. I commuted to the far side of bedford today from Kidderminster, 220 mile round trip. I would say that the number of people who go much further in a day (other than occasional trips) is pretty limited.

400 miles of range in year one.

After 5 years you'll be lucky to make it to the corner shop. Manufacturers won't replace battery under warranty as it falls under normal wear and use.

Cost of a new battery pack after 5 years will probably be more than the car is worth. Over £20000 for an Infiniti M35H battery pack.

[Nick W]

Tesla will be at that benchmark within the next 2yrs I reckon, they're at 335 NEDC already. Admittedly that's an exotic super car, but you only have to look at how the tech filters down, inside of 10yrs 350-400will be the norm.

The other thing I think is about education. Realistically, very few people need 300+ miles of range if you have space to charge at home. I commuted to the far side of bedford today from Kidderminster, 220 mile round trip. I would say that the number of people who go much further in a day (other than occasional trips) is pretty limited.

An electric car would be perfect for about 90% of my usage but for two large problems: I have no off street parking so charging one isn't possible, and the £1500 I paid for the Omega is the most I've ever paid for any of the 28(I think ) cars I've owned. Then there is the real problem with electric cars that nobody has an answer for: where will the electricity come from?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Tesla will be at that benchmark within the next 2yrs I reckon, they're at 335 NEDC already. Admittedly that's an exotic super car, but you only have to look at how the tech filters down, inside of 10yrs 350-400will be the norm.

The other thing I think is about education. Realistically, very few people need 300+ miles of range if you have space to charge at home. I commuted to the far side of bedford today from Kidderminster, 220 mile round trip. I would say that the number of people who go much further in a day (other than occasional trips) is pretty limited.

An electric car would be perfect for about 90% of my usage but for two large problems: I have no off street parking so charging one isn't possible, and the £1500 I paid for the Omega is the most I've ever paid for any of the 28(I think ) cars I've owned. Then there is the real problem with electric cars that nobody has an answer for: where will the electricity come from?

Barely any spare capacity on a cold dark January evening.

[Nick W]

Tesla will be at that benchmark within the next 2yrs I reckon, they're at 335 NEDC already. Admittedly that's an exotic super car, but you only have to look at how the tech filters down, inside of 10yrs 350-400will be the norm.

The other thing I think is about education. Realistically, very few people need 300+ miles of range if you have space to charge at home. I commuted to the far side of bedford today from Kidderminster, 220 mile round trip. I would say that the number of people who go much further in a day (other than occasional trips) is pretty limited.

An electric car would be perfect for about 90% of my usage but for two large problems: I have no off street parking so charging one isn't possible, and the £1500 I paid for the Omega is the most I've ever paid for any of the 28(I think ) cars I've owned. Then there is the real problem with electric cars that nobody has an answer for: where will the electricity come from?

Barely any spare capacity on a cold dark January evening.

I meant to charge the thing in the first place. But yes, inclement weather reduces the range, as several Leaf owners I recovered seemed surprised to discover.

[Bigron]

Hydrogen is the future. Electric cars have been around for a century or more.

I'm working on teleportation.

The problem with teleportation is - what happens if you have more than one receiver?
Can you imagine more than one copy of Lord Sittapong Meerkat?
SHUDDER!   

rON.

[Viral_Jim]

400 miles of range in year one.

After 5 years you'll be lucky to make it to the corner shop. Manufacturers won't replace battery under warranty as it falls under normal wear and use.

Cost of a new battery pack after 5 years will probably be more than the car is worth. Over £20000 for an Infiniti M35H battery pack.

Not many electric cars have gone that far as yet, but the Tesla Loop cars (a company that spends its time ferrying people from LA to vegas using Model S's) passed 200k last year and they were showing about 6% loss over that distance. They also charge their cars to 100% at every charge which is sub optimal for battery life. Tesla suggest a routine charge to 90% unless you need that extra 10% that day.

By that time, you have saved about £17k on fuel compared to a diesel that returns 45mpg. Plenty to get your hand in your pocket and renew it if the mood takes you. Not that a 45mpg could match the performance. Compared to a petrol that does 0-60 in under 5s (like the M140i for example) that can do 25-27mpg, savings are nearer £30k.

[LC0112G]

It's not just the 400 mile requirement - It's also the charging time. If I'm driving to Scotland or The Alps 400 miles will almost get me there, but I don't then want to wait 8+ hours to charge the thing up to go the rest of the way. It might work if you've got a 1-2 hour commute each day, and can recharge overnight, but you're also going to need a second car if you ever want to go 200+ miles away. Or you could take the plane/train and hire a car at the other end.

With a petrol car (Omega) I can do the 400 miles, then re-fill with petrol in 10 minutes (including having a shower, shave and s**t) and start the next 400 miles. Not possible in an electric/battery car.

The Physics of batteries is well understood, and has been for probably 50 years. Increases in performance have only come about because engineers have worked out how to extract various rare earth elements and use them in industrial processes, and package them in useable ways. These elements are both scarce and expensive.  Anyone telling you increases/improvements battery tech will solve the problems is whistling in the wind. Improvements from here on in will be incremental and follow the laws of diminishing returns.

I'm calling Emperors new Clothes on this.