Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tunnie on 03 December 2017, 15:49:51
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As part of some pre-investigations to see if it was viable for LPG, wish I had not bothered and stayed blissfully unaware!
Started to take it off the drivers side...
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/omega_stuff/Image%20uploaded%20from%20iOS%205.jpg)
Visually, kinda looked ok, but pressing it felt like a sponge. :(
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/omega_stuff/Image%20uploaded%20from%20iOS%202.jpg)
Uh, Oh.
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/omega_stuff/Image%20uploaded%20from%20iOS%203.jpg)
Using screwdriver, it just went straight through :'( :'( :'(
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/omega_stuff/Image%20uploaded%20from%20iOS%206.jpg)
Corrosion all along is bad, this up near the front.
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/omega_stuff/Image%20uploaded%20from%20iOS%201.jpg)
Although fixable, my concern is this is the start of a never ending battle against rust. :(
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So I could put the cills back on, this would pass MOT without issue.
So the real world impact is it's not as structurally sound any more? :-\
As I did enjoy a spirited drive home Friday night, I really started to bond with this car. I've really enjoyed my drives home in it, the power, the ride, the effortless aspect of pulling away. Quite gutted really. :'( :'( :'(
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I wouldn't worry too much about that, as outer sills are £50 each and easy to do.
What you don't want to do is poke about in the arches behind the sills, or under the back bumper. And you definitely don't want to check around the front subframe mounts above the wishbones.
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I wouldn't worry too much about that, as outer sills are £50 each and easy to do.
What you don't want to do is poke about in the arches behind the sills, or under the back bumper. And you definitely don't want to check around the front subframe mounts above the wishbones.
Trouble is I cannot do that myself, so need garage to do it. I recall Entwood struggled to source them, they had to be made up there and then, quick search.. he paid £600 to have them fitted.
<snip>
Please advise how I should proceed from here.
Trip to a friendly welder for removal of rotten metal and replacement with new ... the only way to sort that problem. I had both sides done on mine 2 years ago .. £600 but that was for complete new cills both sides. Not purchased ones, he fabricated them himself.
beaten to it ....by migv6 ... again ..... :-\
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I wouldn't worry too much about that, as outer sills are £50 each and easy to do.
What you don't want to do is poke about in the arches behind the sills, or under the back bumper. And you definitely don't want to check around the front subframe mounts above the wishbones.
Trouble is I cannot do that myself, so need garage to do it. I recall Entwood struggled to source them, they had to be made up there and then, quick search.. he paid £600 to have them fitted.
<snip>
Please advise how I should proceed from here.
Trip to a friendly welder for removal of rotten metal and replacement with new ... the only way to sort that problem. I had both sides done on mine 2 years ago .. £600 but that was for complete new cills both sides. Not purchased ones, he fabricated them himself.
beaten to it ....by migv6 ... again ..... :-\
Seems far too much money to pay to be honest but to be fair that's also down to who you know who can do the work, if it's someone who's running a business doing repairs etc they will have overheads.
The sills are available from Carz2 (as well as other suppliers), takes them up to a month to get them shipped from abroad but that'll give you chance to look at the other areas on the car - Front engine cradle mount points onto front chassis rails, rear arm mounting points etc etc.
Ultimately, if you like the car i'd get it repaired because buying any other Omega in the hope it'll be in better condition is a non-starter and therefore your looking at another newer vehicle...
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Another Omega is pointless, this one is an 02 plate, so one of the newer examples.
Agreed it's a choice to fix this, or go something new. I do really, really like the 3.2 now. But I don't have the contacts for welding, I'd be in Entwoods area of paying, his costs are 2 years ago as well.
Add this to LPG work, looking at ~£2k :-\
My preference for a replacement would be 2009-ish XF-S.
Something like this: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201708318838100?postcode=gu153au&sort=distance&price-to=8500&minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&model=XF&maximum-mileage=125000&make=JAGUAR&radius=1500&advertising-location=at_cars&page=3 (https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201708318838100?postcode=gu153au&sort=distance&price-to=8500&minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&model=XF&maximum-mileage=125000&make=JAGUAR&radius=1500&advertising-location=at_cars&page=3)
*and yes Lord Opti would say its far too much for that age and is a diesel, but that's what the market is like. :D
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A big bonus is that fatty admin has a 3.0 Jag lump now, so technical info is good.
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(https://image.ibb.co/hsm1nw/rsz_imag0108.jpg)
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This outfit imports Omega sills. I bought a pair, about £80 I think. I had a friend of my son weld in patches. I have now bought a Mig welder and am learning to use it.
http://www.carz2.co.uk/vauxhallopel-omegavauxhall-omega-94--16603-c.asp
Phone no. is 01684 541267.
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MOT testers are not allowed to dismantle the cars they examine. However on mine they hammered away at the bit of uncovered cill exposed by the rear jacking point. He used a pointed hammer, like a pick, and it went through It must be a tip in the tester's handbook. He bashed holes in both cills and failed it. He charged me £250 plus VAT to patch them.
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(https://image.ibb.co/hsm1nw/rsz_imag0108.jpg)
Thanks, done some serious work there, including the arch/inner areas at the back.
This outfit imports Omega sills. I bought a pair, about £80 I think. I had a friend of my son weld in patches. I have now bought a Mig welder and am learning to use it.
http://www.carz2.co.uk/vauxhallopel-omegavauxhall-omega-94--16603-c.asp
Phone no. is 01684 541267.
Thanks, the cills appear reasonable, but I can't weld. So needing professional services there, but as others have mentioned I need to look in other areas. Suspect if they are bad in the sill area, others will not be far behind :-\ :(
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MOT testers are not allowed to dismantle the cars they examine. However on mine they hammered away at the bit of uncovered cill exposed by the rear jacking point. He used a pointed hammer, like a pick, and it went through It must be a tip in the tester's handbook. He bashed holes in both cills and failed it. He charged me £250 plus VAT to patch them.
That's issue, nearly 300 quid bill for a patch job, suspect in a year or two would ned patching again.
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The sills are back on, which means it would pass any MOT ;D
Is the main issue structure weakness?
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MOT testers are not allowed to dismantle the cars they examine. However on mine they hammered away at the bit of uncovered cill exposed by the rear jacking point. He used a pointed hammer, like a pick, and it went through It must be a tip in the tester's handbook. He bashed holes in both cills and failed it. He charged me £250 plus VAT to patch them.
That's issue, nearly 300 quid bill for a patch job, suspect in a year or two would need patching again.
Well, have them fit the whole bloody sill(which is barely any more work) and forget about it for the rest of the car's life.
Not an Omega, but the principle is the same:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7scgndj809zs0nf/CutOffSill.jpg?dl=1)
yes, I do have to do mine; that last link at £35 each means I'll be buying a pair.
This was required for my MOT last year, I'm about halfway through cutting out the rot:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/75qs9i6ugm4apdl/CutOut%5B1%5D.jpg?dl=1)
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MOT testers are not allowed to dismantle the cars they examine. However on mine they hammered away at the bit of uncovered cill exposed by the rear jacking point. He used a pointed hammer, like a pick, and it went through It must be a tip in the tester's handbook. He bashed holes in both cills and failed it. He charged me £250 plus VAT to patch them.
That's issue, nearly 300 quid bill for a patch job, suspect in a year or two would ned patching again.
Why not drop a call to Daz or Serek and see what they say?
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MOT testers are not allowed to dismantle the cars they examine. However on mine they hammered away at the bit of uncovered cill exposed by the rear jacking point. He used a pointed hammer, like a pick, and it went through It must be a tip in the tester's handbook. He bashed holes in both cills and failed it. He charged me £250 plus VAT to patch them.
That's issue, nearly 300 quid bill for a patch job, suspect in a year or two would ned patching again.
Why not drop a call to Daz or Serek and see what they say?
Not heard from Daz in ages, is he still doing work on Omega's?
Could drop serek a call :y
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(https://image.ibb.co/hsm1nw/rsz_imag0108.jpg)
Thanks, done some serious work there, including the arch/inner areas at the back.
All the inner arch work was simply peeling off loose underseal, quick grind / sand off of the surface rust (it was only very light) paint with rust convertor, leave 24 hours then a coat of Dinitrol all over.
The edge of the arch has light rust which was just cleaned up and painted over until I can spend some proper time on it..... which will be next 'summer' now!
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I keep a set of new sills about, because one day TBE will need some, and supply can be hit and miss (thanks terry paget for getting a replacement set to me).
I too would suggest trying DLK or Serek to get it fixed if you think the car is still a keeper.
An 8yr old Jag probably won't be rust free underneath, and the XF didn't become all ali until 2015.
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A big bonus is that fatty admin has a 3.0 Jag lump now, so technical info has a MIG welder now and needs the practice, which is good.
Just saying like. :) ;D
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I would not expect an XF of age I'm looking at to be rust free, in-fact any car of that age.
Sadly my budget would not extend to all aluminium XJ of 2010 ish vintage, looks like £8k or so gets a nice XF, would need £13-15k for XJ of same age.
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Another option is I just delete the last 12 hours of knowledge in my head, carry on regardless ::) ;D
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All your welding is in places which are hidden. Doesn't need to be pretty, just solid. Then a bit of grinding and plenty of underseal over it to tidy things up.
Doesn't need hundreds of pounds spent using a top notch professional.
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OK, if it cost say £600 to sort the sills as well as cleaning up and undersealing of the other areas and you kept the car for another two or three years, would that not make some financial sense?
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All your welding is in places which are hidden. Doesn't need to be pretty, just solid. Then a bit of grinding and plenty of underseal over it to tidy things up.
Doesn't need hundreds of pounds spent using a top notch professional.
If the repair is patched like Daz did on my project car, you can hide the welding easily behind the sill covers, Daz ground the weld back smooth, I sprayed some cavity wax inside the sill, a couple of coats of primer followed by a couple of coats of Halfords paint the next day, reattach the clips, rubber seal strip (which neatly hides the join), sill back on, invisible! :)
(https://image.ibb.co/et25xw/rsz_imag0122.jpg)
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I may well be into this territory myself next summer when I remove the sill covers for a look. ::)
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What’s the idiots guide for checking other areas?
My issue is time, that’s most valuable asset right now. Finding time to go off for days for welding here, LPG work, more welding etc is a challenge with two daughters.
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What’s the idiots guide for checking other areas?
Jack it up and use a grotty screwdriver to poke away at any crusty looking areas.
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I didn't even bother taking my cill covers off. I just worked my fingers up behind the cover and they went straight through the cill! :o
The End! ::)
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I didn't even bother taking my cill covers off. I just worked my fingers up behind the cover and they went straight through the cill! :o
The End! ::)
Scary how easy the screwdriver went through, like a hot knife through warm butter! :'(
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I didn't even bother taking my cill covers off. I just worked my fingers up behind the cover and they went straight through the cill! :o
The End! ::)
Scary how easy the screwdriver went through, like a hot knife through warm butter! :'(
If you're really worried about it you could buy the approved TOOL (http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?id=20&method=mViewProduct&productid=9115)
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I didn't even bother taking my cill covers off. I just worked my fingers up behind the cover and they went straight through the cill! :o
The End! ::)
Out of interest, what made you not consider welding replacements in?
I didn't even bother taking my cill covers off. I just worked my fingers up behind the cover and they went straight through the cill! :o
The End! ::)
Scary how easy the screwdriver went through, like a hot knife through warm butter! :'(
If you're really worried about it you could buy the approved TOOL (http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?id=20&method=mViewProduct&productid=9115)
I'd just end up with a pile of rust on the drive! ;D
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if you were a bit closer i could do the welding for you either patched or complete sills but a bit far for me to travel :(
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Late to the party I'm sorry .. but ...
my MOT tester, who I trust, said it was a fail due to the visible corrosion around the rear seat belt mounting point, and he suspected that once the cill covers were removed he'd find a load more.
When he phoned me it was quite simple, he reckoned to patch the bad bits, both sides, would be between £300-£400 as he could not tell what was good metal until he started work, and the unpatched bits would probably only last a few more years.... or bite the bullet and replace the whole cill on both sides for £600, known outcome, known price, which, as you know, was my decision.
:)
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Late to the party I'm sorry .. but ...
my MOT tester, who I trust, said it was a fail due to the visible corrosion around the rear seat belt mounting point, and he suspected that once the cill covers were removed he'd find a load more.
When he phoned me it was quite simple, he reckoned to patch the bad bits, both sides, would be between £300-£400 as he could not tell what was good metal until he started work, and the unpatched bits would probably only last a few more years.... or bite the bullet and replace the whole cill on both sides for £600, known outcome, known price, which, as you know, was my decision.
:)
Many thanks :y :y :y :y :y
I would take your choice as well, my issue is do I wish to:
A) Find someone reliable/trust worthy to do the job. There is Fox Vauxhall in Camberley who have been good, but I suspect they would want more than your quote.
B) I need to make a decision if I want to keep it, because on-top of that £600+ I would want to LPG it, so £1.2k - Throw in self levelling shocks, few other bits. I'm looking at £2k easy. :-\ :(
That's a good chunk of cash towards an XF.
In real world though, I'm limited. I need to wait for the Fox/Sky deal to reach a conclusion.
Fox Purchase = Decent wedge of cash, so can buy XF-S.
No Fox Deal = Fix up, bit by bit.
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Give you £50 for it...
If that helps the decision process ::)
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Give you £50 for it...
If that helps the decision process ::)
Podbije na £100 :D
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The sills are back on, which means it would pass any MOT ;D
Is the main issue structure weakness?
If you don't have dig hole to other side of Seal then you be fine
Are they both seals same rotten?
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The sills are back on, which means it would pass any MOT ;D
Is the main issue structure weakness?
If you don't have dig hole to other side of Seal then you be fine
Are they both seals same rotten?
Just outer part, the inner section look fine.
I need to look at passenger side, see if it’s the same.
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The sills are back on, which means it would pass any MOT ;D
Is the main issue structure weakness?
If you don't have dig hole to other side of Seal then you be fine
Are they both seals same rotten?
Just outer part, the inner section look fine.
I need to look at passenger side, see if it’s the same.
If you get stuck let me know :y
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The sills are back on, which means it would pass any MOT ;D
Is the main issue structure weakness?
If you don't have dig hole to other side of Seal then you be fine
Are they both seals same rotten?
Just outer part, the inner section look fine.
I need to look at passenger side, see if it’s the same.
If you get stuck let me know :y
I’ll drop you a PM :y
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My car needs some welding. could anyone here help?.
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What’s the idiots guide for checking other areas?
My issue is time, that’s most valuable asset right now. Finding time to go off for days for welding here, LPG work, more welding etc is a challenge with two daughters.
You should be able to get private lease on something like a Hyundai i10 for under £100pm, with a not too outrageous initial payment.
If you are going to run a 7+ year old large car but suffer CBA/<insert other excuses as appropriate>, its going to be quite an expensive ride.
If you can spare a few hours at the weekend once a month, then it can be a dirt cheap, rewarding car.
Its a life choice only you can make.
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Give you £50 for it...
If that helps the decision process ::)
I offered him £500 IIRC, this time last year, when it was supposedly the worse car in the whole universe.
In fact I still would if it wasn't for the fact I had to buy a successor to the superior Silver Bullet.
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Give you £50 for it...
If that helps the decision process ::)
I offered him £500 IIRC, this time last year, when it was supposedly the worse car in the whole universe.
In fact I still would if it wasn't for the fact I had to buy a successor to the superior Silver Bullet.
What's changed is it's now my commuter, previously it was the family bus. Now it's all switched with Zafira being the bus and my 3.2 being used for work. With 3.2 being family based role, I did not exactly push it while driving it. For one, Little MissT was 99% of the time on-board.
Now I car share doing around 2 to 3 days per week, means I drive 3.2 much harder. As at 3 days per week, I'm not too fused on fuel consumption. I wonder if the gearbox is learning/changed as last week it felt like rocket, not sure if it was cold crisp air, but it just wanted to keep pulling. Off line it felt so much quicker/more responsive recently, think it responded well to being driven harder.
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What’s the idiots guide for checking other areas?
My issue is time, that’s most valuable asset right now. Finding time to go off for days for welding here, LPG work, more welding etc is a challenge with two daughters.
If you can spare a few hours at the weekend once a month, then it can be a dirt cheap, rewarding car.
I'm finding the time, just about! As it's winning me over right now, so much so in discussion with Serek on fixing :)
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Also this looks like to be the case....
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/business/dealbook/disney-fox-murdoch.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/business/dealbook/disney-fox-murdoch.html)
So no big buy out by Fox of Sky means no big cash injection, for my new car fund. :(
But 3.2 does everything I want, hence fixing. :)
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It's only quicker as it's now lighter :D
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It's only quicker as it's now lighter :D
Thats why my beloved Silver Bullet was the best Omega I've driven to date, even if not quite as quick as Imber's 2.6 :P
;D
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It's only quicker as it's now lighter :D
Thats why my beloved Silver Bullet was the best Omega I've driven to date, even if not quite as quick as Imber's 2.6 :P
;D
Because it was always rusting and loosing weight? :D
Using 3.2 again today for work, felt much better to drive. Convinced the autobox behaves different in way in behaves.
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Not surprisingly given that a) they're adaptive, and b) cold air is more dense, thereby producing a better bang in the cylinders ::)
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I took my Elite to Speedweld at Farley Hill, Berkshire,he's not cheap,but he's a fabricator and does ground up restoration work,he likes all the lower interior fittings removed including all carpets.He did a really thorough job including removing the seats....as I say total cost £1500,so not cheap, the other 3.2 is booked in for the new year with only a minor repair to do,looks like I'm keeping them ::)
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I took my Elite to Speedweld at Farley Hill, Berkshire,he's not cheap,but he's a fabricator and does ground up restoration work,he likes all the lower interior fittings removed including all carpets.He did a really thorough job including removing the seats....as I say total cost £1500,so not cheap, the other 3.2 is booked in for the new year with only a minor repair to do,looks like I'm keeping them ::)
Keeping them was surely a given... ::)
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I keep a set of new sills about, because one day TBE will need some, and supply can be hit and miss (thanks terry paget for getting a replacement set to me).
I too would suggest trying DLK or Serek to get it fixed if you think the car is still a keeper.
An 8yr old Jag probably won't be rust free underneath, and the XF didn't become all ali until 2015.
My thanks to TB for lending me his spare set of sills, enabling me to have a friend repair my sills while I watched, and get my daughter's Omega through its MOT. I am now practising my MIG welding for the next time.
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Correct Dr G.....BUT! my head has been turned towards the Holden Senator, of which I spied the two that Elite Motors have in stock at their Christmas meet today. Rob's supercharged 5.7 MV6 estate created a lot of interest amongst all the Monaros and VXR8's.....this one's going to kick some serious arse :y
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Convinced the autobox behaves different in way in behaves.
Its adaptive, so does learn. Quickly, though, not over a period. I believe its adaptions are based on something like the last 10km.
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Convinced the autobox behaves different in way in behaves.
Its adaptive, so does learn. Quickly, though, not over a period. I believe its adaptions are based on something like the last 10km.
Feels like it holds first gear longer, it used to change up quite quickly. But off line it feels like it picks up better. ???
Holds that initial pull before changing, perhaps it’s just me being more aggressive on the throttle. I stamp on it more now it’s just me and car share buddy on board.
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Sounds like your having a new kind of driving experience. ;D
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Sounds like your having a new kind of driving experience. ;D
Like an epiphany moment, he's realised how to drive normally :y
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Bloody kids, driving everywhere like lunatics.. ;D
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Back on topic, I just took the 3.2 to local garage for quick quote. The 'Vauxhall' specialist won't do welding, but indie service/MOT next door would. After I showed them how to remove the sills, as they were not sure ::)
Their approach would be welding plates, to cover the offending area. Now that I did disturb the area, he confirmed it would fail an MOT as hole/corrosion is now visible. :-[ :'( :'( :'(
Cost would be £70-ish +vat for each side for a plate welded in, he said it could be more if they had to go further along. Sooo, maybe around £100 there about each side. They would not do the whole sill, they said that would be a body shop only job.
Been dropping Serek a few PM's, to discuss options here as well.
I'm now wondering if I should have a bash at welding myself, from what the garage described it did not sound difficult compared to service work I already do. But, given it's badly corroded area I'm not picking a good task to cut my teeth on?
But something like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-MIGHTYMIG90-Professional-No-Gas-Welder/dp/B06XWGG6ST/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1513075532&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=Mig+welder&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-MIGHTYMIG90-Professional-No-Gas-Welder/dp/B06XWGG6ST/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1513075532&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=Mig+welder&psc=1)
Is half the cost (potentially) of the bill from a garage.
Thoughts?
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Spend about £50 more and pick up a Clarke TurboMIG 135TE (or very similar) model; much more capable and has provision for shielding gas so you don't have to use 'gasless' wire (which is harder to use, IIRC, and produces less pleasant welds)
Practice on metal of a similar thickness for a while or get someone to show you how to get going and a job like that (hidden behind sill covers) is a good place to start out.
The first 'real' thing I ever welded back together was the fuel tank cradle for a friends Porsche 928 as you can no longer buy the '78 model cradle and he'd have had to update the entire fuel system to the '79 on (at a cost of £500+) to replace it after one of the straps 'fell off' due to rust. It was not a pleasant job but we got there in the end (and it hasn't dropped off again yet..) - I got quite adept at filling holes that I'd blown in the <1mm thick metal ;D
A pair of sills, by contrast, should be a doddle as long as you cut back far enough that you're clear of the crusty metal and into 'good' full thickness steel; just get someone who knows what they're doing to come round when you start (Kevin etc).
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Spend about £50 more and pick up a Clarke TurboMIG 135TE (or very similar) model; much more capable and has provision for shielding gas so you don't have to use 'gasless' wire (which is harder to use, IIRC, and produces less pleasant welds)
Practice on metal of a similar thickness for a while or get someone to show you how to get going and a job like that (hidden behind sill covers) is a good place to start out.
The first 'real' thing I ever welded back together was the fuel tank cradle for a friends Porsche 928 as you can no longer buy the '78 model cradle and he'd have had to update the entire fuel system to the '79 on (at a cost of £500+) to replace it after one of the straps 'fell off' due to rust. It was not a pleasant job but we got there in the end (and it hasn't dropped off again yet..) - I got quite adept at filling holes that I'd blown in the <1mm thick metal ;D
A pair of sills, by contrast, should be a doddle as long as you cut back far enough that you're clear of the crusty metal and into 'good' full thickness steel; just get someone who knows what they're doing to come round when you start (Kevin etc).
:-[
I have one of the aforementioned Clarke welders if you want to borrow it, Tunnie, but alas have no experience welding car bodywork with it. Thinking I might need to gain some soon, as I'm working up the courage to remove my own sill covers. :-\
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.. and I would say it's a false economy not replacing the whole sill, as it looks rusty all along and the rust looks confined to the sill, although removal might reveal more problems, of course.
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.. and I would say it's a false economy not replacing the whole sill, as it looks rusty all along and the rust looks confined to the sill, although removal might reveal more problems, of course.
Kinda wish did that on the initial sill removal, ignorance would be nice. But that said, better to know now that when something serious happens with rust. :-\
Looking at the sill though, you would have to angle/grind cut out the section? I think I could do welding, given some practice but it's the whole package cut/weld/prepare.
I have one of the aforementioned Clarke welders if you want to borrow it, Tunnie, but alas have no experience welding car bodywork with it. Thinking I might need to gain some soon, as I'm working up the courage to remove my own sill covers. :-\
Thanks Kevin :y
I'm tempted to buy my own so I could practice then do more if required. :-\
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If I was still close by I'd say get a few of us over and we can all
take the p*ss give advice.. in fact I'd have offered myself up rather than Kevin ;) ;D
I have the same Clarke welder btw - it's a great bit of beginner kit; though I'd love a more advanced model now. There is something incredibly satisfying about being able to stick bits of metal together and make something out of nothing - quite addictive! (Most recently I modified the pedal box for the Cobra to add a 'throttle stop' - the welds wouldn't pass any beauty contests but once dressed back it looked rather passable if I do say so myself)
But yes - chop out the section with an angle grinder/cut-off wheel (latter is easier to manoeuvre but doesn't have the grunt of a grinder) - heck even a dremel would work given enough cutting wheels ;D - dress back the paint a little to get a clean weld, make a template (cardboard and a dirty finger) and cut the replacement panel to suit (or cut the original panel to suit the replacement - easier if you have a full replacement sill!) and weld in.
You could joggle the original panel back and avoid butt-welding if you wanted to make life a little easier and had a joggler to hand.
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Sounds like I need a visit to Northampton, not been there in years!
I'd rather drive somewhere and get stuck in and learn how to do it, than pay the garage.
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I keep saying this: it is much easier to replace the whole sill than make several patches. Not least because you can repair the inner sill where necessary.
I've another to do on the Metro in the next couple of weeks; I'll take some better photos if it would help. Sills are a good first welding job.
What you MUST remember is to remove everything that could be damaged/catch fire: trim, carpet, wiring etc. That could easily be half the time you spend on the whole job.
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And unless its and absolutely windless day the baby migs will struggle to provide enough shield gas,indoors much preferable if possible :y
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Hmmmm.
How do you actually remove the sill itself, as a whole unit?
My concern is when removed, as Kevin suggests, it would highlight vast amounts more welding required. :-\
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Some jobs you just have to dive into with an attitude that you'll do whatever's found to be necessary, and you have to prepare yourself accordingly. It's probably not one for a Sunday afternoon when you need to use the car for the commute on Monday morning. ;)
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Looks like at least the bottom edge of the sill is spot welded, so drilling those out might be a good starter. This is where I run out of experience, however.
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Hmmmm.
How do you actually remove the sill itself, as a whole unit?
My concern is when removed, as Kevin suggests, it would highlight vast amounts more welding required. :-\
If you're not going to fix whatever you find, there's no point in starting the job. And often, the crusty bits are what you need to weld to.
Remove the sill by slicing it just under the door jams, and just above where the bottom is spot welded to the inner, cut vertically at each end and it will come off. This is an angle grinder job if you don't have a plasma cutter.
I then weaken all of the spot welds with a grinding disc, and split them with a thin chisel. I find that spot weld drills are more work, and you still need to dress the edge with a grinder.
Then you try the new sill for size, and trim whatever gets in the way, depending on where it needs to be welded.
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As Nick is highlighting, theres a bit difference between MOT repair and restoration.
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I think I'm swinging towards MOT repair, to buy time to save up for a replacement.
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Another vote for the Clarke 135 turbo here :y
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As Nick is highlighting, theres a bit difference between MOT repair and restoration.
What I suggested IS an MOT repair. Restoration would involve considerably more work in fitting the new sill to the door shuts and a LOT more finishing of the welds
My point is that it is easier to fit an entire sill than it is to make a couple of separate repairs. It's stronger too, which is the reason for doing the job.
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If I was you i'd buy two sills from Carz2 and drive it to either Serek's or Daz's and get it sorted properly.
From your description it sounds to me as if they want to just clean up the sill then weld a patch over the top.... that's not a long term repair.
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currently in PM's with Serek. :y
Not spoken with Daz in years :-\
Probably will order them this week, if I can persuade someone (via beer tokens) to assist.
Could both be cut out and welded back in a day? ???
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currently in PM's with Serek. :y
Not spoken with Daz in years :-\
Probably will order them this week, if I can persuade someone (via beer tokens) to assist.
Could both be cut out and welded back in a day? ???
Mine were done in less than half a day .. dropped off at 10 picked up at 1
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Thanks. Had no idea how long job like this would take :y
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There's a car hire place close to Sereks as I'm sure Ken hired a car for a couple of days when Serek did some larger jobs on one of his cars.
Could be an option?
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Good suggestion. Thanks :y
Got a mate who may follow me and take me back if I cover fuel.
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3.2 booked into Serek's in mid Jan. :y :y
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3.2 booked into Serek's in mid Jan. :y :y
Nice one :y
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I've just ordered a pair for mine.
I'll take photos as I fit them. Which is likely to be in the new year.
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I've just ordered a pair for mine.
I'll take photos as I fit them. Which is likely to be in the new year.
Thanks Nick. I look forward to the pictures and narrative.
I am a bit surprised you think it worth while replacing whole cills, at £50 each. The three cills I have replaced all failed at the back, as MOT examiners expect. Otherwise mine were't too bad.
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I've just ordered a pair for mine.
I'll take photos as I fit them. Which is likely to be in the new year.
Thanks Nick. I look forward to the pictures and narrative.
I am a bit surprised you think it worth while replacing whole cills, at £50 each. The three cills I have replaced all failed at the back, as MOT examiners expect. Otherwise mine were't too bad.
Because he wants to do the job once, now, I expect - not once now and once again in a couple of years and once again a couple of years after that and so on..
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I've just ordered a pair for mine.
I'll take photos as I fit them. Which is likely to be in the new year.
Thanks Nick. I look forward to the pictures and narrative.
I am a bit surprised you think it worth while replacing whole cills, at £50 each. The three cills I have replaced all failed at the back, as MOT examiners expect. Otherwise mine were't too bad.
Because he wants to do the job once, now, I expect - not once now and once again in a couple of years and once again a couple of years after that and so on..
In my discussions with Serek, it's not always great to replace whole section, due to what you are attaching to being rusty and large amount of heat required. I bow to his experience of having done many Omega before and great reputation here, so will go on his recommendation for either partial or full replacement.
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I've just ordered a pair for mine.
I'll take photos as I fit them. Which is likely to be in the new year.
Thanks Nick. I look forward to the pictures and narrative.
I am a bit surprised you think it worth while replacing whole cills, at £50 each. The three cills I have replaced all failed at the back, as MOT examiners expect. Otherwise mine were't too bad.
Why are you surprised, when I've repeatedly suggested it? Mine have more than one hole, and by the time you've cut back to decent metal, plus trimmed the new panel or made shaped patches, it's easier to just slice along the top and bottom edges and attach a complete sill. Like this:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7scgndj809zs0nf/CutOffSill.jpg?dl=1)
And mostly finished:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/qtwik4f01whvo30/SillTackedOn.jpg?dl=1)
The sill covers on an Omega make this bit of the job easier, as you can't see the repair
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This cill does not look too bad, rot is mainly at the rear end. Patching the hole is easier than replacing the entire cill, got this 17 year old car through its MOT, and saved £50 cost of a new cill. There are holes elsewhere in the car, but none structural.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktnu2dqjq51m3uc/cill.jpg?dl=1)
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(https://www.dropbox.com/s/v7nzoibuv6sakw2/cill21%25.jpg?dl=1)
Bigger pic hopefully
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Front of that sill is nearly as goosed as the rear ::)
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Front of that sill is nearly as goosed as the rear ::)
And that's why I prefer to replace the whole thing - there's no point in leaving the front in that sort of state. And while I could make suitable repair panels, it simply isn't worth it when they're available.
I've five sills to do soon; the OS Metro one, both on the Omega which will include a load of work on the NS inner arch, plus both sills/rear arches/lower rear quarters on a friend's Capri. Which will also involve the A-pillar and windscreen corners that Capris always need - those are all jobs I've done several times before.
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Of course you are right; as said, I eagerly await your pics and tale of cill replacement. I have yet to do my first cill repair, though my welding is improving with practice.
The front end of cill is indeed going, though the MOT shop ignored it, changing me £300 for the back end repairs. There is a complication at the front with something bolted to it.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/eatxzpf5y6pf9wi/CILLfront.jpg?dl=1)
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The lower edge of the wing is bolted to it.
You'll find the front ends will be full of debris which is the reason they rot from the inside out.
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I've just ordered a pair for mine.
I'll take photos as I fit them. Which is likely to be in the new year.
They arrived today, which was a surprise. As was finding that they're complete panels from the door-shut pinch weld to the inner sill. Which makes fitting them considerably easier, with a lot less finishing required to hide the join - just run a flap disc over the plug welds and refit the door seal.
I've got to do the Metro sill before the third, as the MOT runs out, but I might get some of this done over the break.