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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I do have a small occupational pension, but that also was taken out of my salary - so the same applies - I HAVE BEEN ROBBED! 

Ron.

Yes, Ron, of course you have.
Robbed by the taxman, robbed by paying VED, robbed by speeding fines. No one else....just you.

What about council tax? You haven't had a moan about that one yet.

Two free months at the moment.

[Viral_Jim]

I do have a small occupational pension, but that also was taken out of my salary - so the same applies - I HAVE BEEN ROBBED! 

Ron.

Surely your occupational pension was taken pre-tax (ie you didn't pay tax on it the first time around), I don't think it will have been taxed twice.

The government wants to make it compulsory for all people of working age to pay into a private pension scheme.

But of course!

The great fallacy is that we contribute to our own state pensions through tax, we don't and never have! We all pay for our parents' generation, UK state pension has never been funded by a "pot". Which is why there is so much rancour from millenials on the subject of private pensions. By pushing people into private pensions and away from the state pension, ours will be a generation that funds the retirement of both ourselves and the generation before  .

If you look at how much you'd have to put away in tax to get £150/week, index linked retiring at 65 (or 67 come to that), it would make your head spin!

EDIT: According to aviva you would need a fund of £260,000 to get you an RPI index linked income of about £150pw, so not even triple locked

[STEMO]

I do have a small occupational pension, but that also was taken out of my salary - so the same applies - I HAVE BEEN ROBBED! 

Ron.

Yes, Ron, of course you have.
Robbed by the taxman, robbed by paying VED, robbed by speeding fines. No one else....just you.

You're a spiteful bastard on the quiet, aren't you?

Ron.

No..just a normal everyday bloke...who gets fed up of listening to whining bastards who blame everyone and everything for their own position in life. We all pay taxes, it's how you get a state pension in the first place. Think yourself lucky you didn't leave uni with £50000 worth of debt.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I do have a small occupational pension, but that also was taken out of my salary - so the same applies - I HAVE BEEN ROBBED! 

Ron.

Yes, Ron, of course you have.
Robbed by the taxman, robbed by paying VED, robbed by speeding fines. No one else....just you.

You're a spiteful bastard on the quiet, aren't you?

Ron.

No..just a normal everyday bloke...who gets fed up of listening to whining bastards who blame everyone and everything for their own position in life. We all pay taxes, it's how you get a state pension in the first place. Think yourself lucky you didn't leave uni with £50000 worth of debt.

My understanding is that only students who leave university for a well paid job pay back the full amount. Most don't.

In reality it is a 9% tax on earnings of £21000 or over. If you  earn less than £21000 you pay nothing. Debt lasts 30 years.

[LC0112G]

STEMO, is that a typo?  I have had my paperwork and it is £146. . I thought that was the max. If it isn't maybe I need to query it.........

If you reached state pension age on or before 5/4/2016 then your state pension is based on the 'old rules' calculation which is the basic old state pension (£125.95 p/w in 2018/19) plus a SERPS/S2P amount which can be up to £160 p/w. So it is entirely possible to get £280+ p/w from the state pension, which is up to £14900 per annum. The person allowance for 2018/19 is £11850, which means that it IS possible for someone who only gets the SP to be liable for some income tax on it ((14900-11850) * 20%) = £610 p/a

If you reach(ed) SPA after 5/4/2016 then your SP amount is based on the 'new rules', and the maximum SP is/will be £159 p/w, or £8270 p/a for 2018/19. So no-one who retires after 2016 will be liable for income tax on their SP.

Any 'company', 'private' or 'personal' pension income is then added onto your SP amount, and will push you into paying income tax once the total exceeds your personal allowance.

All the above relies on you having enough qualifying NI years (30 under the old system, 35 under the new system)

[LC0112G]

I do have a small occupational pension, but that also was taken out of my salary - so the same applies - I HAVE BEEN ROBBED! 

Ron.

It was either...

1) Taken out of your salary - PRE TAX - so you paid no tax (or NI) on the contributions.
2) Paid into the scheme after tax (and NI) was deducted, and the govt then refunded the tax directly to the scheme.

Pension schemes are the most tax efficient way of saving money for retirement. You pay no tax on money going into the scheme, no tax on growth within the scheme, and can then withdraw 25% of the total tax free after age 55. You pay normal income tax rates on the remaining 75% although some of this may be 0% rated too if your SP amount is less than your personal allowance (£11850 p/a)

[STEMO]

STEMO, is that a typo?  I have had my paperwork and it is £146. . I thought that was the max. If it isn't maybe I need to query it.........

If you reached state pension age on or before 5/4/2016 then your state pension is based on the 'old rules' calculation which is the basic old state pension (£125.95 p/w in 2018/19) plus a SERPS/S2P amount which can be up to £160 p/w. So it is entirely possible to get £280+ p/w from the state pension, which is up to £14900 per annum. The person allowance for 2018/19 is £11850, which means that it IS possible for someone who only gets the SP to be liable for some income tax on it ((14900-11850) * 20%) = £610 p/a

If you reach(ed) SPA after 5/4/2016 then your SP amount is based on the 'new rules', and the maximum SP is/will be £159 p/w, or £8270 p/a for 2018/19. So no-one who retires after 2016 will be liable for income tax on their SP.

Any 'company', 'private' or 'personal' pension income is then added onto your SP amount, and will push you into paying income tax once the total exceeds your personal allowance.

All the above relies on you having enough qualifying NI years (30 under the old system, 35 under the new system)

£164 from April, Malcolm.

[Viral_Jim]

In reality it is a 9% tax on earnings of £21000 or over. If you  earn less than £21000 you pay nothing. Debt lasts 30 years.

Almost exactly correct, except now they wait until you reach 70 to write it off. I'm counting down - 9 more months and I'll be free of it. For the record, I don't begrudge paying it in the slightest, but the extra £400pcm will be most welcome!

All a far cry from the days of student grants and claiming unemployment benefit in the holidays, which some on here will doubtless remember

[LC0112G]

The government wants to make it compulsory for all people of working age to pay into a private pension scheme.

Wrong tense. All employees and employers are now required to pay into PP schemes unless the employee (foolishly IMHO) opts-out.

What happens when such schemes go 'tits up'? Who is responsible?

The scheme can't go bust. The scheme is a wrapper company (like the Prudential, Standard Life, Aviva etc) who hold the investments in your name, but the funds are firewalled from the company funds. You typically use your money to buy units in one or more fund within the pension wrapper. If the wrapper company goes bust, then you still own all the assets that are ring fenced from them. 

The fund(s) you invest in buy shares in many hundreds of UK and worldwide companies. Some of these may boom and some may go bust but since each company only represents a fraction of the shares held by the fund, it is vanishingly unlikely that you will lose all your money. The only way you could lose all your money is if you don't buy funds, but instead only buy shares in one company (such as Carillion, Northern Rock etc) and that company goes bust. However investing in a single company is suicidially high risk investing, and no normal person should do it..   

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

In reality it is a 9% tax on earnings of £21000 or over. If you  earn less than £21000 you pay nothing. Debt lasts 30 years.

Almost exactly correct, except now they wait until you reach 70 to write it off. I'm counting down - 9 more months and I'll be free of it. For the record, I don't begrudge paying it in the slightest, but the extra £400pcm will be most welcome!

All a far cry from the days of student grants and claiming unemployment benefit in the holidays, which some on here will doubtless remember

Grammar school for me but no university place presumably because I was 'too fick'

Mind you in the mid-seventies only about 4% went to university which meant great career prospects for all who attended. These days everyone and the cats mother goes to 'Uni' which sounds good but in reality is the exact opposite.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The government wants to make it compulsory for all people of working age to pay into a private pension scheme.

Wrong tense. All employees and employers are now required to pay into PP schemes unless the employee (foolishly IMHO) opts-out.

What happens when such schemes go 'tits up'? Who is responsible?

The scheme can't go bust. The scheme is a wrapper company (like the Prudential, Standard Life, Aviva etc) who hold the investments in your name, but the funds are firewalled from the company funds. You typically use your money to buy units in one or more fund within the pension wrapper. If the wrapper company goes bust, then you still own all the assets that are ring fenced from them. 

The fund(s) you invest in buy shares in many hundreds of UK and worldwide companies. Some of these may boom and some may go bust but since each company only represents a fraction of the shares held by the fund, it is vanishingly unlikely that you will lose all your money. The only way you could lose all your money is if you don't buy funds, but instead only buy shares in one company (such as Carillion, Northern Rock etc) and that company goes bust. However investing in a single company is suicidially high risk investing, and no normal person should do it..

Are you saying it is impossible for a company to dip into the pension scheme with the intention of 'paying it back at a latter date'?

[STEMO]

The government wants to make it compulsory for all people of working age to pay into a private pension scheme.

Wrong tense. All employees and employers are now required to pay into PP schemes unless the employee (foolishly IMHO) opts-out.

What happens when such schemes go 'tits up'? Who is responsible?

The scheme can't go bust. The scheme is a wrapper company (like the Prudential, Standard Life, Aviva etc) who hold the investments in your name, but the funds are firewalled from the company funds. You typically use your money to buy units in one or more fund within the pension wrapper. If the wrapper company goes bust, then you still own all the assets that are ring fenced from them. 

The fund(s) you invest in buy shares in many hundreds of UK and worldwide companies. Some of these may boom and some may go bust but since each company only represents a fraction of the shares held by the fund, it is vanishingly unlikely that you will lose all your money. The only way you could lose all your money is if you don't buy funds, but instead only buy shares in one company (such as Carillion, Northern Rock etc) and that company goes bust. However investing in a single company is suicidially high risk investing, and no normal person should do it..

Are you saying it is impossible for a company to dip into the pension scheme with the intention of 'paying it back at a latter date'?

It's not a company pension scheme and, as Malcolm stated, it is ringfenced. The teachers pension scheme is administered by the Prudential, but they certainly can't 'dip into it'.

[LC0112G]

The government wants to make it compulsory for all people of working age to pay into a private pension scheme.

Wrong tense. All employees and employers are now required to pay into PP schemes unless the employee (foolishly IMHO) opts-out.

What happens when such schemes go 'tits up'? Who is responsible?

The scheme can't go bust. The scheme is a wrapper company (like the Prudential, Standard Life, Aviva etc) who hold the investments in your name, but the funds are firewalled from the company funds. You typically use your money to buy units in one or more fund within the pension wrapper. If the wrapper company goes bust, then you still own all the assets that are ring fenced from them. 

The fund(s) you invest in buy shares in many hundreds of UK and worldwide companies. Some of these may boom and some may go bust but since each company only represents a fraction of the shares held by the fund, it is vanishingly unlikely that you will lose all your money. The only way you could lose all your money is if you don't buy funds, but instead only buy shares in one company (such as Carillion, Northern Rock etc) and that company goes bust. However investing in a single company is suicidially high risk investing, and no normal person should do it..

Are you saying it is impossible for a company to dip into the pension scheme with the intention of 'paying it back at a latter date'?

I'd be reluctant to use the word 'impossible' but basically yes - the rules were changed after the Robert Maxwell/Mirror scandal in the early 1990's.

For Defined Contribution/Private Pensions/SIPPS etc, the company has no access to the funds held in the scheme once they have been paid in. And the pension regulator gets involved if the company falls more than a month or two behind with payments.

For Final Salary/Defined benefit schemes, the trustees of the scheme are supposed to ensure that the main company pays in enough money each year to meet the predicted future liabilities. If the main company goes bust and if the pension fund is then unable to meet the liabilities it goes into the Pension Protection Fund, and the vast majority of pensioners are paid 90% of their entitlement.

[Viral_Jim]

Are you saying it is impossible for a company to dip into the pension scheme with the intention of 'paying it back at a latter date'?

I don’t know how it works with company DB schemes (can’t access one, so of no interest to me) but my DC schemes are more like a savings account in my name. They’re held by aviva, my employer pays into it each month, some taken from my salary, some their contribution. They can’t access, or even see what’s in there and under client money rules, it’s also ringfenced from aviva should they go under.

EDIT: ^^ wot e sed ^^ 

[Mister Rog]

I am surprised there is tax topay on a UK statepension. I believe it is 70thin the world in amount. Behind the likes ofMexico. Worst in Europe.. Thanks tosuccessive governments.. Cheapskates.

There is no tax to pay on a state pension. You only pay tax if the value of your state pension plus any occupational pension takes you over the tax threshold.
I will get a full state pension in May, £164 a week, but I won't pay any tax on it.

Maybe not directly, but your tax code will reduce significantly, so you are much more likely to get taxed on any other income, including any income from a private pension.