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Author Topic: Tower block fire  (Read 31397 times)

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redelitev6

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #15 on: 14 June 2017, 12:08:58 »

 >:( I bet there's a few twitchy a***s in the management company / local council , cue LOTS of back covering  >:(
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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #16 on: 14 June 2017, 13:20:29 »

Trial by TV pundits.
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Shackeng

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #17 on: 14 June 2017, 18:38:05 »

Absolutely terrible :'( :'( :'(

This will again raise the whole questioned about the safety of these tower blocks. In this case it seems the main fire escape staircase was overcome by fire and smoke; it was the only means of escape :o :o :o. This should never be the case in the 21st century. These ridiculous 1960/1970 experiments in housing should be demolished, as many have been. But that will take so much money, but to still have families with young children at high levels in the ruddy blocks is beyond comprehension.

When you look at the pictures it is clear that still the fire brigade have not acquired the equipment to fight the fire and provide people with a means of escape at high levels. The Towering Inferno film of 40 years ago has still not got through to the authorities; if people are still going to live in these blocks, then high level fire fighting equipment must be at last provided!

Just terrible!!!  :'( :'( :'( >:( >:(


I was watching this disaster unfold this AM and could not believe that some 8 or 9 hours after the fire was reported, there was, apparently, only one fire hose playing, somewhat pathetically, on the 10th or 11th floor. I cannot believe that our fire services have nothing better in this day and age. Films of firefighting during the WW2 blitz appeared as efficient. Where are the high ladders as in New York? >:( >:( >:(
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #18 on: 14 June 2017, 19:01:08 »

I hope arson is not the cause. It could be as simple as kids pissing about after too much white cider and weed. Let us hope not.

Another possibility is contractors making 'extra profit' by skimping on electrical specifications.

Pure speculation at this point in time.



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STEMO

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #19 on: 14 June 2017, 19:07:31 »

I hope arson is not the cause. It could be as simple as kids pissing about after too much white cider and weed. Let us hope not.

Another possibility is contractors making 'extra profit' by skimping on electrical specifications.

Pure speculation at this point in time.
There are a lot of 'possibilities', time will tell.
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BazaJT

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #20 on: 14 June 2017, 19:26:01 »

Yes investigations will be conducted to find the cause,lots of passing the buck will go on and one thing for sure when it starts flying the sh@t will always flow downhill and some poor sod at the bottom of the food chain will be held responsible!Apparently the fire safety advice on display in the building said to put a wet towel[or similar]across the bottom of the door to the flat and stay put to await rescue,the theory being that any fire would be contained near the seat of the outbreak.
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Zirfeld

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #21 on: 14 June 2017, 19:26:20 »

Heard about it this evening. :'(

Terrible. Thinking about the people....

We had a similar fire here in Karlsruhe in a 14 floor block two days ago. One floor burned out. Not more. What is the difference?

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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #22 on: 14 June 2017, 20:09:27 »

It has been suggested that the gas main fractured in the initial blaze and the fire brigade were unable to get to the shut off :-\

Clearly the cladding was a significant contributory factor in the spread of the blaze, but the initial cause could be anything from a cigarette butt to arson, with many other possible causes in between.

The initial coroners report will give an idea...

It is also somewhat unnerving that they aren't saying how many fatalities they are expecting :-\ They know roughly how many residents were officially living there, they know how many are accounted for either at the hospitals or the shelters... I have a horrible feeling it will be a three figure number :'(
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grifter

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #23 on: 14 June 2017, 22:36:43 »

It has been suggested that the gas main fractured in the initial blaze and the fire brigade were unable to get to the shut off :-\

Clearly the cladding was a significant contributory factor in the spread of the blaze, but the initial cause could be anything from a cigarette butt to arson, with many other possible causes in between.

The initial coroners report will give an idea...

It is also somewhat unnerving that they aren't saying how many fatalities they are expecting :-\ They know roughly how many residents were officially living there, they know how many are accounted for either at the hospitals or the shelters... I have a horrible feeling it will be a three figure number :'(

I did notice in an article today they'd said the council were going to/or were in the process of installing gas pipes. Not sure if that was new install or repairs. Either way gas should have been off at the main inlet or disconnected and isolated.

Just wondering why they could not have shipped in one of those water bomb helicopters or planes?
« Last Edit: 14 June 2017, 22:39:11 by grifter »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #24 on: 14 June 2017, 23:49:57 »

Probably because we don't have any...
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jimbo125

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #25 on: 15 June 2017, 01:05:04 »

20 odd floors gutted, a mixture of elderly residents and families and so early in the morning. The fire spreads up and cuts of the peoples escape route down I believe this will be a disaster with multiple casualties and agree three figures, so unfortunate for those involved directly and left behind.
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geoffr70

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #26 on: 15 June 2017, 01:07:46 »

Absolutely terrible :'( :'( :'(

This will again raise the whole questioned about the safety of these tower blocks. In this case it seems the main fire escape staircase was overcome by fire and smoke; it was the only means of escape :o :o :o. This should never be the case in the 21st century. These ridiculous 1960/1970 experiments in housing should be demolished, as many have been. But that will take so much money, but to still have families with young children at high levels in the ruddy blocks is beyond comprehension.


When you look at the pictures it is clear that still the fire brigade have not acquired the equipment to fight the fire and provide people with a means of escape at high levels. The Towering Inferno film of 40 years ago has still not got through to the authorities; if people are still going to live in these blocks, then high level fire fighting equipment must be at last provided!

Just terrible!!!  :'( :'( :'( >:( >:(


I was watching this disaster unfold this AM and could not believe that some 8 or 9 hours after the fire was reported, there was, apparently, only one fire hose playing, somewhat pathetically, on the 10th or 11th floor. I cannot believe that our fire services have nothing better in this day and age. Films of firefighting during the WW2 blitz appeared as efficient. Where are the high ladders as in New York? >:( >:( >:(

Standard pumping appliances, the everyday kind seen driven around the streets have 13.5 metre ladders (category 1 appliance), which at full extension reaches the 3rd floor (as in g-1-2-3), and 10.5 metre ladders (cat. 2) which reach the 2nd floor. When behind an appliance you can tell the difference as the 13.5 has a jack beam, a horizontal spherical bar at the foot of the ladder.

Turntable ladders or TLs (old, mostly phased out) and aerial ladder platforms (ALPs) extend to about 32 metres max, subject to conditions and electronically limited. This would get to about the 10th or 11th floor. Some ALPs with greater reach (50m) have tipped up in North America and I don't believe are used here.

2 firefighters with a charged 70mm hose will be working hard directing it anywhere, let alone the 4-5th floors, which is probably as high as it will reach and still be effective. The higher it goes, the more pressure is needed and the harder it is to control. A monitor (device the squirts the water and doesn't need holding) won't go much higher.

Due to the structure of high rises, the only way to effectively fight fires in them is from inside. There are tried and tested procedures for this. 2 teams of 2 BA wearers from 1 and 2 floors below the fire enter with hoses charged from dry risers (used to be wet risers but maintenance too expensive). The dry riser usually has only one inlet. This allows 1 firefighting team and one covering jet. Dry riser outlets on different floors are fed from the same riser. The higher you go the more pressure you need due to gravity and friction loss. Open an outlet lower down and you'll get no or very little pressure higher, assuming of course the riser is capable of delivering the desired amount of water.

There's loads of other factors, but the most important and obvious ones is lack of access and egress from higher up, and crucially, firefighting and rescue capability. Obviously due to a whole range of reasons, like anything, reasonable control measures need to be taken. I can't imagine the logistical nightmare and the level of search and rescue coordination that needed to undertaken at this incident, never mind the difficult decisions that OiCs needed to take, and the moral pressure.

Based on what I know of this incident, and my knowledge of firefighting and the high rise procedures that my brigade has, unfortunately it seems to me that once the fire had spread to 2 adjoining floors above 10-11, the residents above will have been doomed.
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STEMO

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #27 on: 15 June 2017, 06:31:28 »

Thank you for that, Geoff. I did wonder about the stability of anything higher than the ladder being used. I jet washed a small area the other day and the back pressure from a tiny wand was amazing. The lateral force from a powerful hose at the top of a 30M ladder must be huge, I'm surprised they can even go that high.
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Varche

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #28 on: 15 June 2017, 11:53:33 »

I  cannot believe in this day and age there isnt a serviceable design for an escape device.

In 30 seconds of thinking here are just spme ideas.

Whaling harpoon to fire escape line into building.

Building mounted harpoon escape lines

Permanently fixed escape lines

Escape pods with airbags.

Internal escape pods in tubing like supermarket money system.

Cost? How much would it cost if people en masse refuse to live in towers?
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Tower block fire
« Reply #29 on: 15 June 2017, 12:11:59 »

There is a proven tubular slide in use globally...

On of several variations...
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