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[Lazydocker]

Interesting how all the armchair experts are out spreading their opinions worldwide... Costs per person is amazing as the final numbers have yet to be confirmed 

As for the sprinklers... There are numerous reports that the residents didn't want them fitted because of the disruption - how much truth there is in these reports I don't know.

What I do know is that the residents aren't helping their cause with the rioting.

Time will tell

[Lazydocker]

Yup. More for the cull list.  If you gave them Buckingham Palace for free, they'd complain.


I pay for house insurance, and have suffered a significant fire (a few mins away from losing the house), had the house gone or deemed unsafe by the fire services, my insurance would have covered temporary accommodation, until house rebuilt or financially settled.

Presumably these people are above paying for thet?

"cull list"

you paid insurance because you own the house.  if you rented it from a landlord or a council you would sort of expect the owner to insure their building, not the tenant

I'm sure the building is insured, the contents however

[TD]

I wonder what type of 'lego block' cladding they have stuck on the sides.....

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15354372.Grenfell_Tower_contractor_behind_building_of_multi_million_pound_new_Swindon_health_centre/

[BazaJT]

I did hear on TV the other day a statement by some official or other that installing sprinklers was an option but that there was no "consensus of opinion"among the residents in favour of the idea so they weren't installed.I'm no fire expert so I don't know whether sprinklers would have averted this tragedy but I'd have thought they'd have helped in part at least.However hindsight is a wonderful thing is it not?

[Doctor Gollum]

As a student I had to pay contents insurance in a rented property.

If you can't afford kids, don't have them. Simples. Third world attitudes to family planning, coupled with a perceived right to everything, is what has completely destroyed the social support system in the UK.

Alot of those who were last heard from before the fire took over were staying behind to be with others, be they pets friends or neighbours. If they could see the behaviour of some that survived, they would be devastated

[Doctor Gollum]

I did hear on TV the other day a statement by some official or other that installing sprinklers was an option but that there was no "consensus of opinion"among the residents in favour of the idea so they weren't installed.I'm no fire expert so I don't know whether sprinklers would have averted this tragedy but I'd have thought they'd have helped in part at least.However hindsight is a wonderful thing is it not?

Apparently they kicked up such a stink about the fact that the gas pipes were moved into common areas (presumably to reduce ongoing maintenance costs by facilitating access) that the sprinklers probably didn't get a look in...

[biggriffin]

I lived in a council house for years. Of course you take out insurance, be silly not too. But, of course, if you're on benefits, it would, imo, be unaffordable.

Exactly right

When you have £20 left in your pocket to feed the kids for the week, what do you do? Spend a part of it on insurance, or give your kids a meal each of the 7 days, or just on 6?!

As for those living in a block of high rise flats, they may well insure on a contents only basis, which in any other ground based home would be just fine, but they are taking the risk of potential fires, floods and explosions in potentially 119 other homes.  With the increasing possibility that the recent refurbishment was sub-standard, they perhaps should have insured for that as well?  Coming out of that "spare" £20 per week?

No, of course not, and that is why the authorities must step in and help out these families who have lost everything, including relatives and friends, regardless of their "insured" status.  What they have seen and heard many not familiar with a battleground situation would never have experienced before, and that is something that will need much state help for them to gradually resolve in their minds, if they ever do!  Even hardened fire fighters, medics and police have never seen anything like it before, and they will need all the assistance "we", the greater society, can give them.

. 

£20 a week left, is that after they've paid sky, bought fags, hp on the 42" television, topped up the i-phone7s,  then think O better get some food from the food bank.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I lived in a council house for years. Of course you take out insurance, be silly not too. But, of course, if you're on benefits, it would, imo, be unaffordable.

Exactly right

When you have £20 left in your pocket to feed the kids for the week, what do you do? Spend a part of it on insurance, or give your kids a meal each of the 7 days, or just on 6?!

As for those living in a block of high rise flats, they may well insure on a contents only basis, which in any other ground based home would be just fine, but they are taking the risk of potential fires, floods and explosions in potentially 119 other homes.  With the increasing possibility that the recent refurbishment was sub-standard, they perhaps should have insured for that as well?  Coming out of that "spare" £20 per week?

No, of course not, and that is why the authorities must step in and help out these families who have lost everything, including relatives and friends, regardless of their "insured" status.  What they have seen and heard many not familiar with a battleground situation would never have experienced before, and that is something that will need much state help for them to gradually resolve in their minds, if they ever do!  Even hardened fire fighters, medics and police have never seen anything like it before, and they will need all the assistance "we", the greater society, can give them.

. 

£20 a week left, is that after they've paid sky, bought fags, hp on the 42" television, topped up the i-phone7s,  then think O better get some food from the food bank.

You are over generalizing and working on stereotypical images of "benefit families".  Some are of course like that, but most are a lot of genuinely hard up people out there who through no fault of their own are going through very hard times and do need much help. 

Mostly the unskilled jobs in heavy industry where it was all about your ability to do hard labour, not possess a degree, have gone, with zero hour contracts and low basic rates of pay on offer to those at the bottom of the social scale.  Our advanced, high tech society that we all encourage has a lot to answer for, and in the meantime the poor get poorer.

[omega2018]

Apparently they kicked up such a stink about the fact that the gas pipes were moved into common areas the fire escape staircase!(presumably to reduce ongoing maintenance costs by facilitating access) that the sprinklers probably didn't get a look in...

corrected that for you

people are so picky about where their highly flammable gas is piped nowadays

[jonathanh]

Presumably the panels met the regulations at the time. 


Did the steel that melted in the twin towers meet spec and building regs? Rhetorical question.

Lets hope the lessons learnt are actually implemented. I suspect they wont be once rhe focus moves to something else.

there is something here that i think the media is missing.  If you look on the Council's website, the cladding work was done under a building notice.  That notice records the work as "completed Not approved" no one is focussing on that in the media.

did building control not approve the work because they knew about the panels? if so why did they not take enforcement action?
of course they may not have approved for other reasons but to my thinking there are two routes for this to take

Regulations today ARE sufficient and they were not enforced properly ( in which case you have to ask why: failure of council, enforcement powers not strong enough....) or

Regs are not adequate and have to be amended.

I have no clue which but there is something not quite right with the building control notice for the cladding, that's for sure.  Anyone can see this, search on RBKC building control site for the tower

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

On the way to work this evening I was listening to a discussion about this on LBC. One of the contributors stated that she knew for a fact that in the 1980,s comrade Corbyn voted against the introduction of sprinklers in high rise flats.
No idea if this is true, but I would like to find out.

[Doctor Gollum]

All socialists are equal, but some are more equal than others

[omega2018]

On the way to work this evening I was listening to a discussion about this on LBC. One of the contributors stated that she knew for a fact that in the 1980,s comrade Corbyn voted against the introduction of sprinklers in high rise flats.
No idea if this is true, but I would like to find out.

that would have been just after he put the INLA bomb in Airey Neave's car, in the House of Commons car park

sadly some of you will take that seriously too .

[STEMO]

On the way to work this evening I was listening to a discussion about this on LBC. One of the contributors stated that she knew for a fact that in the 1980,s comrade Corbyn voted against the introduction of sprinklers in high rise flats.
No idea if this is true, but I would like to find out.

[STEMO]

All socialists are equal, but some are more equal than others

Double