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[Viral_Jim]

I've seen a few folk on here bemoaning the demise of their A/C, the Swede is still cool but was struggling to keep up with ambient temps over 25 degrees so I think a re-gas might help it along.

The best price I've found so far is my local Formula one autocentre at £40 (this includes a £5 discount voucher code). Just wondered if anyone has bettered this recently? 

[tunnie]

Your posted reminded me to get 3.2 checked....

local indie Vauxhall specialist, £49 for a simple re-gas and £79 for a diagnostic, but with no gas!

Vauxhall dealer, £69 for gas and a check.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Air con is good in my car. Cooled seats are pathetic.

[Varche]

Air con is good in my car. Cooled seats are pathetic.

Cooled seats. How do they work? Is there a duct from the air con? 

[Viral_Jim]

The systems I've seen vary, from aircon ducting (as you say) to fans under the seat squab that just suck up ambient air from the rear footwells.

In all cases there are then channels through the seat up to perforated leather, and your bum. Opinions on how well they work vary enormously, for example, despite both TB and M'Lud running Jaaaaags of similar vintage, their experiences are poles apart.

I've only experienced them in a new Renault Velsatis (not sure we get the model that has them in the UK) and tbh I couldn't work out if the buttons were even connected to anything or whether they just operated an LED on the dash. That said, being a Renault, they were probably broken... 

Back on topic, at least it seems I'm not paying over the odds, which is all I'm bothered about and come to think of it, Formula one did a decent job on the mig's a/c 2yrs ago.

[Doctor Gollum]

Air con is good in my car. Cooled seats are pathetic.

Air con is good in my car. Cooled seats are pathetic.

Cooled seats. How do they work? Is there a duct from the air con? 

Here do...

http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xf-xfr-x250-44/questioning-ventilated-seats-73509/

[STEMO]

I've seen a few folk on here bemoaning the demise of their A/C, the Swede is still cool but was struggling to keep up with ambient temps over 25 degrees so I think a re-gas might help it along.

The best price I've found so far is my local Formula one autocentre at £40 (this includes a £5 discount voucher code). Just wondered if anyone has bettered this recently? 

Best price=cheapest price for a thorough job. You've found the cheapest price, not necessarily the best.

[Viral_Jim]

I've seen a few folk on here bemoaning the demise of their A/C, the Swede is still cool but was struggling to keep up with ambient temps over 25 degrees so I think a re-gas might help it along.

The best price I've found so far is my local Formula one autocentre at £40 (this includes a £5 discount voucher code). Just wondered if anyone has bettered this recently? 

Best price=cheapest price for a thorough job. You've found the cheapest price, not necessarily the best.

Very true, although having seen a few places where this has been done, the process always seemed to be the same. Attach 2 hoses, push button to start the machine cycle, wait, decouple the machine, present bill.

The machine drains your car's system, pressurises it to look for leaks over a given time interval and if its ok, refills it for you with the required mix of refrigerant, lubricant etc. So long as the machine is working correctly, there's limited scope for beggering it up afaik. There are very few jobs I would let a brand named shed do on any car I own. This is one of them. That said, I still wouldn't use a halfords autocentre 

[annihilator]

cheapest here  it's not rocket science


http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/car-air-con-recharge-28-95-ats-euromaster-groupon-up-43-off-2721076

[Viral_Jim]

cheapest here  it's not rocket science


http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/car-air-con-recharge-28-95-ats-euromaster-groupon-up-43-off-2721076

Cheers  . I really should use these discount sites more.

[STEMO]

ATS Euromaster are just like kwikshit, only smaller. 

[annihilator]

please yourself

[henryd]

I've seen a few folk on here bemoaning the demise of their A/C, the Swede is still cool but was struggling to keep up with ambient temps over 25 degrees so I think a re-gas might help it along.

The best price I've found so far is my local Formula one autocentre at £40 (this includes a £5 discount voucher code). Just wondered if anyone has bettered this recently? 

Best price=cheapest price for a thorough job. You've found the cheapest price, not necessarily the best.

Very true, although having seen a few places where this has been done, the process always seemed to be the same. Attach 2 hoses, push button to start the machine cycle, wait, decouple the machine, present bill.

The machine drains your car's system, pressurises it to look for leaks over a given time interval and if its ok, refills it for you with the required mix of refrigerant, lubricant etc. So long as the machine is working correctly, there's limited scope for beggering it up afaik. There are very few jobs I would let a brand named shed do on any car I own. This is one of them. That said, I still wouldn't use a halfords autocentre 

Other way round actually,machine sucks out the gas then holds vac for a given time before refill

[Viral_Jim]

Interesting, I didn't realise that, although now you say it, it is the obvious way around, other wise the machine would have to let the pressure out, add the cooling stuff (technical term!) and then pressurise again.

[STEMO]

Interesting, I didn't realise that, although now you say it, it is the obvious way around, other wise the machine would have to let the pressure out, add the cooling stuff (technical term!) and then pressurise again.

Stick to actuaryism...or whatever it is you do   

[Viral_Jim]

Stick to actuaryism...or whatever it is you do   

I'm a jumped-up bean counter, or at least that's what it says on my business cards . I prefer to think of myself as in the pre-retirement phase of life.

[tidla]

If your passing the centre of brum, theres a guy under the arches by the blues ground who does it for £35.

Had mine done by a mobile guy twice and it seemed to last 3 months.(£50)

Seen the chap under the arches and its still working 14 months later.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Interesting, I didn't realise that, although now you say it, it is the obvious way around, other wise the machine would have to let the pressure out, add the cooling stuff (technical term!) and then pressurise again.

It pulls and holds a VAC to dry the system, under a vacuum water boils at ambient temperatures

[Bigron]

Clearly, if the system is under pressure a leak can be readily detected, but how can the same be said if the system is evacuated: there surely wouldn't ne any visible signs?

Ron.

[Doctor Gollum]

Clearly, if the system is under pressure a leak can be readily detected, but how can the same be said if the system is evacuated: there surely wouldn't ne any visible signs?

Ron.

It won't hold a vacuum

[Marks DTM Calib]

Clearly, if the system is under pressure a leak can be readily detected, but how can the same be said if the system is evacuated: there surely wouldn't ne any visible signs?

Ron.

You are actually very correct, it is a very flawed method of testing for leaks. Under vacuum the stresses the pressures on the system are the reverse of that which it sees when operating and only a fraction of what they would be under normal operating pressures (particularly on the high side).

To do it correctly you fill with a dry Nitrogen charge but, this clearly takes time and cash so is skipped at the risk of it leaking again.

What it will find is total failures of say the condenser, it wont identify weak seals or valves.

[Webby the Bear]

£30 inc. vat at my garage....

That said you get me doing it. Swings n roundabouts I suppose 😂😂😂

[Doctor Gollum]

Although, valve leaks are readily identified by staining/residue or hissing when the cap is removed...

[STEMO]

£30 inc. vat at my garage....

That said you get me doing it. Swings n roundabouts I suppose 😂😂😂

Fu kin ell. You should give them 30 quid. 

[Viral_Jim]

£30 inc. vat at my garage....

That said you get me doing it. Swings n roundabouts I suppose 😂😂😂

Where do you work Webby? My office is in Rushden (when I'm there) so not far from Northants .

[Webby the Bear]

£30 inc. vat at my garage....

That said you get me doing it. Swings n roundabouts I suppose 😂😂😂

Where do you work Webby? My office is in Rushden (when I'm there) so not far from Northants .

Moulton park mate. Ask for Steve. 😀😀😀 samefor all you guys 👍

[TheBoy]

Air con is good in my car. Cooled seats are pathetic.

I love mine.  They won't exactly give you frostbite on yer dingly danglies, but stop that horrible dampness from stupid leather seats in hot weather.  I find it uncomfortable - not freezing - to have on max setting for too long, I'm more of a minimum setting man, though driving back from Malvern on Sat, it was set to 2 most of the way.

Assuming the XF is the same, it uses ambient air that's blown through, so if you have the floor temps set high, it ain't gonna chill much.

[TD]

Clearly, if the system is under pressure a leak can be readily detected, but how can the same be said if the system is evacuated: there surely wouldn't ne any visible signs?

Ron.

You are actually very correct, it is a very flawed method of testing for leaks. Under vacuum the stresses the pressures on the system are the reverse of that which it sees when operating and only a fraction of what they would be under normal operating pressures (particularly on the high side).

To do it correctly you fill with a dry Nitrogen charge but, this clearly takes time and cash so is skipped at the risk of it leaking again.

What it will find is total failures of say the condenser, it wont identify weak seals or valves.

I used a mobile guy a couple of times.....he never used a machine as per garages do....all by hand with pressure gauges hanging off the bonnet.....he also used nitrogen 
Unfortunately for me both times he found a leak in the condenser. Around £300 bill both times, but it was fixed first time 
Well actually second time....as he had order the condenser and then come back to finish the job 

I think he told me if it wasn't leaking and just needed a recharge....he charged £70.....so you pays yer money....and take a chance.....

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

My Omega had a new condenser and regas less than a year ago, but the A/C definitely isn't as cold as it should be.
My thoughts are that either it didn't have enough gas put in or has a leak. Probably a valve.
I'm thinking I might buy a UV torch, something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-UV-Black-Light-Torch-Ultra-Violet-Gas-Leak-Forensic-Blood-Urine-Detector-/321855415856?hash=item4af013e630:g:5KEAAOSwqBJXWE60 to check for leaks, and proceed from there.
I have a mate who will do the regas for around £25, but hes a bit hard to get hold of.

[TD]

My Omega had a new condenser and regas less than a year ago, but the A/C definitely isn't as cold as it should be.
My thoughts are that either it didn't have enough gas put in or has a leak. Probably a valve.
I'm thinking I might buy a UV torch, something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-UV-Black-Light-Torch-Ultra-Violet-Gas-Leak-Forensic-Blood-Urine-Detector-/321855415856?hash=item4af013e630:g:5KEAAOSwqBJXWE60 to check for leaks, and proceed from there.
I have a mate who will do the regas for around £25, but hes a bit hard to get hold of.

Probably too late for a UV torch.....if dye was put in it to start with.....as if you've driven it in rain most likely the dye has been washed off....unless a high up leak 
I would invest in a thermometer that you shove down the air vents.....to check temp.....should be around 5/6C inside the air vents....if it is that temp....then I would suspect the pollen filter.....they get clogged and restrict airflow.....could just be you haven't enough airflow entering the cabin 

[Lincs Robert]

My local garage charged me £48 today for an air con service which included a regas. They reckon it has lost 10% in 5 years - which is pretty good IMO.

Cooled seats were standard on some mk4/4.5 Mondeos & optional on others for another £100 on top of the heated seat price. They don't seem to offer them on the new model though - which is odd as they work well enough.

[Tick Tock]

My local garage charged me £48 today for an air con service which included a regas. They reckon it has lost 10% in 5 years - which is pretty good IMO.

Snap!!!

Had mine done 2 weeks ago when it was slightly cooler outside, to avoid the rush when this heatwave struck. £48 inc vat, and was on the machine for about an hour. I didn't know whether the system was any good, as the car had been off the road for 5 years, and it didn't work when I put it back on the road last year........ so there's hope your defunct system might be worth a 50 quid punt.

A fortnight later, I must admit it has been a godsend, especially in standing traffic. The alternative 'open windows at 60mph' is good, providing you don't have to stop!

Slightly off topic - when it rained during a 3 hour journey lately, I didn't have to have the window cracked open..... previous to the re-gas it steamed up like buggery, but we all know the climate control isn't just for summer cooling. 

[Webby the Bear]

Out of interest....

How would others describe their AC performance? I stuck the temp probes from my multimeter the other day and it was down to 8c on a very hot day.

That's perfect for me. But at the same time....

I've gassed BMWs, Audis and newer cars etc that have gone down to 4c 😧 And it is freeeeeezing!

I suppose this is a difficult question cos we'd need to compare pressures, ambient temps etc. But if we simplify it I'd say mine was "good". I'd say newer cars Ive gassed were "excellent ". Where does your omega (or anything else) sit in this score.....

[neil74]

Mine doesn't work at all.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

My Omega had a new condenser and regas less than a year ago, but the A/C definitely isn't as cold as it should be.
My thoughts are that either it didn't have enough gas put in or has a leak. Probably a valve.
I'm thinking I might buy a UV torch, something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-UV-Black-Light-Torch-Ultra-Violet-Gas-Leak-Forensic-Blood-Urine-Detector-/321855415856?hash=item4af013e630:g:5KEAAOSwqBJXWE60 to check for leaks, and proceed from there.
I have a mate who will do the regas for around £25, but hes a bit hard to get hold of.

Probably too late for a UV torch.....if dye was put in it to start with.....as if you've driven it in rain most likely the dye has been washed off....unless a high up leak 
I would invest in a thermometer that you shove down the air vents.....to check temp.....should be around 5/6C inside the air vents....if it is that temp....then I would suspect the pollen filter.....they get clogged and restrict airflow.....could just be you haven't enough airflow entering the cabin 

Pollen filter is a year / 5k miles old, so shouldn't be causing the problem. 
Took the caps of the valves today and the lower one has some green dye visible on top of the valve. Does this indicate a leak, or likely to have been sat there for a year ?

[Webby the Bear]

There's always a bit round the valves albs following a regas. Though if it's everywhere and not contained just where the valve is then replace and gas it again 👍

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Its just where the valve is. Maybe they assumed the Mig took the standard amount of gas when regassing it, so it doesn't have enough gas in ? 

[Webby the Bear]

With my omega I gassed it with 1050g. This covers the 950 plus the 100 that gets caught in the lines. I'd try a regas and reiterate the amount needed.

I check Autodata every time. They should too

[Andy H]

I don't think I have ever had a really good system in any of my Omegas 

I drove the project MV6 this morning. I wasn't sure if it was working at all so I placed a thermometer in the vents. 30degC outside and I was measuring 28degC in the vents 

Drove SWMBOs Galaxy this afternoon to take the 1 & 2 year old to hospital. When we came out at about 4pm we got stuck in stationary traffic. One and a half hours going nowhere in 30 degree heat with screaming 1 year old and 2 year old in the back I came to the conclusion that SWMBO's Galaxy needs a regas too

[Doctor Gollum]

With my omega I gassed it with 1050g. This covers the 950 plus the 100 that gets caught in the lines. I'd try a regas and reiterate the amount needed.

I check Autodata every time. They should too

Shouldn't need to check... It's on the sticker on the slam panel 

[Webby the Bear]

With my omega I gassed it with 1050g. This covers the 950 plus the 100 that gets caught in the lines. I'd try a regas and reiterate the amount needed.

I check Autodata every time. They should too

Shouldn't need to check... It's on the sticker on the slam panel 

Which is great... if the stickers there. 

[TheBoy]

Out of interest....

How would others describe their AC performance? I stuck the temp probes from my multimeter the other day and it was down to 8c on a very hot day.

That's perfect for me. But at the same time....

I've gassed BMWs, Audis and newer cars etc that have gone down to 4c 😧 And it is freeeeeezing!

I suppose this is a difficult question cos we'd need to compare pressures, ambient temps etc. But if we simplify it I'd say mine was "good". I'd say newer cars Ive gassed were "excellent ". Where does your omega (or anything else) sit in this score.....

All mine have been reasonable, BUT the Omegas PFL or FL don't seem to be able to shift air in any quantity. Same with the Zafira.

[Doctor Gollum]

Hence the generally poor reviews

[STEMO]

Out of interest....

How would others describe their AC performance? I stuck the temp probes from my multimeter the other day and it was down to 8c on a very hot day.

That's perfect for me. But at the same time....

I've gassed BMWs, Audis and newer cars etc that have gone down to 4c 😧 And it is freeeeeezing!

I suppose this is a difficult question cos we'd need to compare pressures, ambient temps etc. But if we simplify it I'd say mine was "good". I'd say newer cars Ive gassed were "excellent ". Where does your omega (or anything else) sit in this score.....

All mine have been reasonable, BUT the Omegas PFL or FL don't seem to be able to shift air in any quantity. Same with the Zafira.

My astra and, hence, the newer zafiras, are pretty good. Mine is very cold and has never had a regas.

[TheBoy]

Sorry, to clarify, my Omegas (and Zafira) have always been cold at the vents.  Its just the fans seem to struggle to really move large quantities of air, despite the excessive noise the bloody fans create

[STEMO]

Sorry, to clarify, my Omegas (and Zafira) have always been cold at the vents.  Its just the fans seem to struggle to really move large quantities of air, despite the excessive noise the bloody fans create

Ah..I see. Well, it's cold enough in the drivers seat, I don't care about the rest of the car
I also find that recirc keeps it nice and cool without the fans having to work too hard. No 2 does the job once it's down to temp.

[Webby the Bear]

Yeah that's how mine is. Cold at the vents. Just not the coldest ever.

[TheBoy]

Yeah that's how mine is. Cold at the vents. Just not the coldest ever.

Try pulling out pollen filter (temporarily, seeing as you have the inferior FL model), see if it improves.

[TheBoy]

Sorry, to clarify, my Omegas (and Zafira) have always been cold at the vents.  Its just the fans seem to struggle to really move large quantities of air, despite the excessive noise the bloody fans create

Ah..I see. Well, it's cold enough in the drivers seat, I don't care about the rest of the car
I also find that recirc keeps it nice and cool without the fans having to work too hard. No 2 does the job once it's down to temp.

Both the Omega and Zafira have pretty crappy rear vents, so cooling the whole car takes longer than perhaps it should.

[TheBoy]

I also find that recirc keeps it nice and cool without the fans having to work too hard.

Many climate systems do this automatically if you have the temp down as low as it will go.  It does allow better cooling (as the air it draws in has already been chilled once), but stops fresh air coming in, which can lead to drowsiness if used for longer periods.

[Webby the Bear]

Yeah that's how mine is. Cold at the vents. Just not the coldest ever.

Try pulling out pollen filter (temporarily, seeing as you have the inferior FL model), see if it improves.

We will agree to disagree. The FL looks more poised 😂

[Webby the Bear]

Re the AC. Yeah I will try that tb cheers 👍

[TheBoy]

Yeah that's how mine is. Cold at the vents. Just not the coldest ever.

Try pulling out pollen filter (temporarily, seeing as you have the inferior FL model), see if it improves.

We will agree to disagree. The FL looks like I really wanted an Astra-G instead 😂

Fixed.

[TD]

I was never happy with the aircon on my 2.2 .
Sunny weather and say an outside temp of 25C inside set at 19/20C it used to make the fan run on full chat all the time. Nothing wrong with the refrigerant and pollen filter was new.....
I even asked the AC guy if he could use a different refrigerant to make it colder....he wasn't keen as he suggested all that might happen is that it would freeze up and get even worse air flow....so it was left.....

Now the Ford.....even in these temps....left parked up in the sun....jump in and climate goes into full chat mode, but after 10mins or so the fans start to slow down  Much better 

[TheBoy]

I even asked the AC guy if he could use a different refrigerant to make it colder....he wasn't keen as he suggested all that might happen is that it would freeze up and get even worse air flow....so it was left.....

I've had Omega's start to freeze up the windscreen before (and other cars as well).

[Marks DTM Calib]

I was never happy with the aircon on my 2.2 .
Sunny weather and say an outside temp of 25C inside set at 19/20C it used to make the fan run on full chat all the time. Nothing wrong with the refrigerant and pollen filter was new.....
I even asked the AC guy if he could use a different refrigerant to make it colder....he wasn't keen as he suggested all that might happen is that it would freeze up and get even worse air flow....so it was left.....

Now the Ford.....even in these temps....left parked up in the sun....jump in and climate goes into full chat mode, but after 10mins or so the fans start to slow down  Much better 

Irrelevant on an aircon setup.

To make it colder you need to change the expansion valve 

Our facelift 2.5 had superb aircon, it often even created ice on the glass above the screen vents.

[Doctor Gollum]

A minor detail of note...

The climate control system contains several parts which all need to function correctly to give the best results...

Perfect air-conditioning may well leave a frost on the glass, but if the air distribution system is a compromised design, the overall ability of the climate control to deliver reasonable volumes of air regardless of temperature is somewhat reduced.

Working Aircon and working climate control are not quite the same thing

[TD]

So, this where I struggle to understand....

If the aircon or climate is managing to frost the windscreen, it suggests to me the air coming from the vents must be below 0c 
A temp inside the vents of about 5c is norm I would have thought 
Also if climate why is it venting the air onto windscreen, unless you have it on manual and selected the windscreen vents....climate on my cars left on auto have always vented through the dash vents ....

[TheBoy]

So, this where I struggle to understand....

If the aircon or climate is managing to frost the windscreen, it suggests to me the air coming from the vents must be below 0c 
A temp inside the vents of about 5c is norm I would have thought 
Also if climate why is it venting the air onto windscreen, unless you have it on manual and selected the windscreen vents....climate on my cars left on auto have always vented through the dash vents ....

Certainly on the Omega, it vents where it needs to, and when stable, out of all outlets.

I think this might be part of Omega's issue, too many outlets for a small fan...

[frostbite]

I regassed mine the other day, a hot day leaning over the hot hot radiator squeezing the trigger on the regulator was a hard lesson but the system is working again.

after cash back for recycling the bottle ot the same price as fastfit.

It will never be as cold as my c class was, I had frost blowing out of the cabin vents

[Doctor Gollum]

Better to have it done properly than DIY with a refill/bodging kit for several reasons...

[Marks DTM Calib]

So, this where I struggle to understand....

If the aircon or climate is managing to frost the windscreen, it suggests to me the air coming from the vents must be below 0c 
A temp inside the vents of about 5c is norm I would have thought 
Also if climate why is it venting the air onto windscreen, unless you have it on manual and selected the windscreen vents....climate on my cars left on auto have always vented through the dash vents ....

As an example, sun on the screen means the climate directs additional air to the screen for cooling (thanks to the sun sensor).

No aircon setup will have the condenser temp at less than 4 deg C or it would freeze up, most are about 5-6.

[TD]

So, this where I struggle to understand....

If the aircon or climate is managing to frost the windscreen, it suggests to me the air coming from the vents must be below 0c 
A temp inside the vents of about 5c is norm I would have thought 
Also if climate why is it venting the air onto windscreen, unless you have it on manual and selected the windscreen vents....climate on my cars left on auto have always vented through the dash vents ....

As an example, sun on the screen means the climate directs additional air to the screen for cooling (thanks to the sun sensor).

No aircon setup will have the condenser temp at less than 4 deg C or it would freeze up, most are about 5-6.

Ok, I get the first bit.....but how can you get frost forming....with a air temp of 5-6C? 

The other thing I struggle to understand is the compressor .....

Compressor job is turn the gas back into liquid.....so cooling can take place as the liquid turns to gas.....correct?

So if the compressor is running at engine idling speed its compressing the gas back to liquid......but if the compressor is running at engine speed of 3k revs for example......does the compressor turn the gas back to liquid at a faster rate and therefore its cooling faster?? 

[Kevin Wood]

The Omega's air con compressor is variable displacement, I believe, so that compensates to some extent for engine speed and how much refrigerant is being let by by the expansion valve.

If the screen really is icing up, then so is the evaporator, and it will eventually block up, hence on a properly working system, the expansion valve keeps the evaporator above freezing. This also means the system only does as much work as it has to, meaning very little impact on fuel consumption.

[Mr Gav]

Clearly, if the system is under pressure a leak can be readily detected, but how can the same be said if the system is evacuated: there surely wouldn't ne any visible signs?

Ron.

You are actually very correct, it is a very flawed method of testing for leaks. Under vacuum the stresses the pressures on the system are the reverse of that which it sees when operating and only a fraction of what they would be under normal operating pressures (particularly on the high side).

To do it correctly you fill with a dry Nitrogen charge but, this clearly takes time and cash so is skipped at the risk of it leaking again.

What it will find is total failures of say the condenser, it wont identify weak seals or valves.

The trouble with testing under vacuum is that it pulls everything in tight so less chance of leaking, the cynic in me says that this is done on purpose as they are not allowed to fill a system they know is leaking and therefore thay don`t get any money for it.
I had the Datsun regassed last year which was ok under vacuum but within a week it wasn`t working again, last week I took it to a local garage and explained it had a leak so needed finding before any re gassing took place, they found a leak in each pipe from the compressor to the condenser and need replacing.

[Lazydocker]

I feel cheated if I pay more than £20... But that is a deal with my mate as he does all the MOTs on all the motors I look after.

Reminds me, I must book the A/C regards at the same time as the MOT

I know you can (in theory) change the rad without disconnecting the AC lines but much easier and, surprisingly, after over 4 years parked up there was still some gas

[Sir Tigger KC]

cheapest here  it's not rocket science


http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/car-air-con-recharge-28-95-ats-euromaster-groupon-up-43-off-2721076

Just bought a/c recharge for both cars via this link and saved £38.08!  Thanks for sharing!