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Author Topic: Brake upgrades...  (Read 11087 times)

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dbug

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #45 on: 09 December 2013, 22:32:36 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D

Shame Webby, if I still had my Ferrari (and my racing licence), I'd have taken you round for a few laps - did it for quite a few friends a few years back.
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MR MISTER

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #46 on: 09 December 2013, 22:34:02 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.
What....? When you try to use big words, you're supposed to put them in a certain order, so they make sense  ;D
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chrisgixer

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #47 on: 09 December 2013, 22:37:37 »

Compare disc size with almost any other car, and the discs are disproportionately small. I guess budget comes into it, and ten ton plus stops without fade is probably in industry standard.

But add in how easy they warp(ebc in this case) , rust on the inner edge(ebc don't), fade with anything less than 75% pad material, lack bite, feel and servo asdistance I'm sorry, but they're shit and that's that.

Fit for a trip to the shops and back without spilling anything. But that's as complimentary as I can be frankly.

ANY other car has better bite (more servo assistance) than the omega. Not a mark on the power of the brakes capability fair enough but, Add in a bit of pad ware, some rusty discs after a lay up, a hire car while on holiday, and the poxy things can catch you out first time you stop when back in an omega.

These, ladies and gents, over the life or a set of discs and pads are.... SHIT BRAKES.
Lets lay our cards down then.

I'd class myself as reasonably hard on brakes. If you stop before the white line, you've clearly braked too early.

To quote Mr Darth Loo-knee, I "drive like a cock".

The only discs I've warped have been pattern ones. You say your patterns are warping - I'm not surprised, most do if properly used.

I tend to use TC pads on the Bullet, and OE on TBE. I'd say neither were more tolerant to abuse, in fact both seem to be about the same (excluding the fact that TC lack bite/feel when cold). Beyond half worn, TC pads are spent. Don't be tight, bin 'em (thats a msg to all, not to Gixer). Not sure about OE, as Mrs TB tends to use that car.

The pedal has more travel than most modern cars. Thats personal preference if you prefer/hate that. As all know, I've had the misfortune to own a Focus, fart in those cars, and you go through the windscreen. So I prefer more pedal control, even if it is often used as a switch ;D


As said in previous post, Mr Gixer, you are a special case. We cannot make recommendations/sweeping statements on what we need is the norm for all OOFers :). And the MV8 will need uprated everything, obviously.

So, yes there are clearly potential improvements to be made, but the cost/benefit/insurance hassles factored in for many OOFers isn't viable. For most, the brakes aren't "shit" ;)

Couldn't agree more - silly to make sweeping statements based on a "one off" case - just puts most of the other members off due to "bad" information.  Not sure I would necessarily describe Mr Gixer as a "special case" though in the light of his rather silly and pedantic posts on this topic.
We need to recognise the Omega was built quite a few years ago now, as a comfortable cruiser, not an out and out racer, and the brakes, in good condition, were at that time adequate and "fit for purpose" for the drivers these cars were aimed at.  I drive fast and am considered "hard" on brakes, but do not drive stupidly on the roads.  If you want to drive like that try it on a race track (on a track day preferably as you wont last long racing) - if you want to put an Omega on a race track I agree brakes amongst a lot of other items would definately need upgrading. 
Or buy a more modern design car with more modern brakes ;)
Or, upgrade the brakes on the omega. Sigh...

I would also argue, that completely ignoring driving style, speed, or heavy on brakes approach, that the hopeless level of servo assistance on the omega becomes more and more of an issue as time goes on. As jumping between cars highlights. Get in another car, and the servo assistance is massive, and once your used to it give much better control over the omega for much less effort.
 The mondeo and focus are not over assisted, they are more assisted than the average. As all things are relative, you have to then conclude that relative to other cars, the omega brakes are massively under assisted. Arguably, as mentioned earlier with slightly low pads, rusty discs after a lay up in an airport car park, and being used to a hire car for a week, there's a good chance you'll run on at the next junction.
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #48 on: 09 December 2013, 22:39:37 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.

True. My main point regarding safety was more braking distances :) But then we're getting in to the area that I can't comment on... i.e. the ability of the brakes past a safe braking distance.... that's why I tried to stick to only commenting on driver enjoyment  ;D

I will say this though.... I drove me and Mrs Bear to Cambridge for a long weekend the other week and I came off the motorway on to a long curving slip road. A lorry in front locked up as he'd mis-negotiated a give way point (that was strange to be fair) and I slammed on my anchors and at no point did I fear I wouldn't stop. I know we'd have to go through calculations i.e, how far I was behind, speed etc etc but my point is that even with the long pedal lol I had confidence I'd stop.
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chrisgixer

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #49 on: 09 December 2013, 22:40:15 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.
What....? When you try to use big words, you're supposed to put them in a certain order, so they make sense  ;D

Ok I'll give you that one. Speed being the easiest factor to eradicate.

Shouldn't you be in bed? ;D
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #50 on: 09 December 2013, 22:41:10 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D

Shame Webby, if I still had my Ferrari (and my racing licence), I'd have taken you round for a few laps - did it for quite a few friends a few years back.

Gutted mate  :'( :'( :'( were you one of the guys that hired out their cars to race companies like Every man racing and the like?? :)
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dbug

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #51 on: 09 December 2013, 22:42:20 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D

Shame Webby, if I still had my Ferrari (and my racing licence), I'd have taken you round for a few laps - did it for quite a few friends a few years back.

Gutted mate  :'( :'( :'( were you one of the guys that hired out their cars to race companies like Every man racing and the like?? :)
No raced it myself.
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05omegav6

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #52 on: 09 December 2013, 22:42:54 »

You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\
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chrisgixer

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #53 on: 09 December 2013, 22:43:36 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.

True. My main point regarding safety was more braking distances :) But then we're getting in to the area that I can't comment on... i.e. the ability of the brakes past a safe braking distance.... that's why I tried to stick to only commenting on driver enjoyment  ;D

I will say this though.... I drove me and Mrs Bear to Cambridge for a long weekend the other week and I came off the motorway on to a long curving slip road. A lorry in front locked up as he'd mis-negotiated a give way point (that was strange to be fair) and I slammed on my anchors and at no point did I fear I wouldn't stop. I know we'd have to go through calculations i.e, how far I was behind, speed etc etc but my point is that even with the long pedal lol I had confidence I'd stop.
Yes a one off emergency stop, with pedal slammed on. Feels the same in a focus or mondeo. Maximum braking immediately. Servo assistance gives much better feel at minor more subtle braking levels IMO.
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #54 on: 09 December 2013, 22:46:01 »

You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\

Fair enough. But we're still talking about this happening under heavy braking htough?
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #55 on: 09 December 2013, 22:47:09 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D

Shame Webby, if I still had my Ferrari (and my racing licence), I'd have taken you round for a few laps - did it for quite a few friends a few years back.

Gutted mate  :'( :'( :'( were you one of the guys that hired out their cars to race companies like Every man racing and the like?? :)
No raced it myself.

Very nice mate  :) :) :) I fear it will be many moons before I can afford to own my own Italian Stallion (the car... not what you're thinking STE-HOMO!!!  ;D)
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05omegav6

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #56 on: 09 December 2013, 22:55:21 »

You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\

Fair enough. But we're still talking about this happening under heavy braking htough?
Moderate, and from relatively sensible speeds. If I drive from Horsham to Crawley with passengers at 65 and back again at 75, that's 23 roundabouts in 16 miles over 25 minutes. The front discs will be groaning before I'm halfway back...

Hence the desire to improve matters :-\
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chrisgixer

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #57 on: 09 December 2013, 23:07:21 »

I would of thought better brakes would be desirable. Why people feel the need to knock improved brakes is entirely beyond me tbh.

Bloody argumentative is all.
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #58 on: 09 December 2013, 23:09:43 »

You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\

Fair enough. But we're still talking about this happening under heavy braking htough?
Moderate, and from relatively sensible speeds. If I drive from Horsham to Crawley with passengers at 65 and back again at 75, that's 23 roundabouts in 16 miles over 25 minutes. The front discs will be groaning before I'm halfway back...

Hence the desire to improve matters :-\

When I drove to Cambridge there were loads of roundabouts on the A45 straight there. I cant tell you exactly how many.... but I was driving sensibly. and my brakes were fine.
I trust you haven't got a sticking calliper or owt like that?
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Re: Brake upgrades...
« Reply #59 on: 09 December 2013, 23:10:13 »

To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking  :o

However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.

When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!

However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)

There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes  ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.

*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8  :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster  8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.

True. My main point regarding safety was more braking distances :) But then we're getting in to the area that I can't comment on... i.e. the ability of the brakes past a safe braking distance.... that's why I tried to stick to only commenting on driver enjoyment  ;D

I will say this though.... I drove me and Mrs Bear to Cambridge for a long weekend the other week and I came off the motorway on to a long curving slip road. A lorry in front locked up as he'd mis-negotiated a give way point (that was strange to be fair) and I slammed on my anchors and at no point did I fear I wouldn't stop. I know we'd have to go through calculations i.e, how far I was behind, speed etc etc but my point is that even with the long pedal lol I had confidence I'd stop.
Yes a one off emergency stop, with pedal slammed on. Feels the same in a focus or mondeo. Maximum braking immediately. Servo assistance gives much better feel at minor more subtle braking levels IMO.

See, more servo assistance would be the last thing I'd want on an Omega, and Fords are awful, IMHO. Much more pedal feel if you are actually having to put some effort in, IMHO. Anyway, that's a different matter entirely.
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