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Author Topic: Red battery warning light and no instruments  (Read 15929 times)

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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #30 on: 31 December 2019, 22:29:43 »

First things first. Reconnect EVERYTHING that you have randomly unplugged. Then replace F15 with the correct 20A fuse.

Then consider the following:

Looking a bit more closely at the way the Engine cooling and Aircon system is wired, if the fans check out OK, then you have four possibilities:

1. M54 has seized.
2. S128 fails at temperature.
3. S88 fails at temperature.
4. S2 has an internal fault.

1. can be tested along side 2. and 3.

Unplug M54 and connect it to 12v. If it runs then start at a. If it doesn't run, skip to b1.

a.Run the car up to temperature (aircon on, cabin fan on lowest speed, temp on LO). Allow to idle until main fan kicks in four times or the fuse blows.

b.Unplug M54 and repeat. if the fuse doesn't blow, b1.then swap M54 for the pump on inner wing below the header tank aka M81. Bleed the coolant  as follows: (aircon on, cabin fan on lowest speed, temp on HI) header cap off; run at idle until fans kick in; top up; repeat; refit cap; repeat.

Road test and report back.

2. and 3. are unlikely to be the culprits, but have to be included due to the warm up nature of the fault. That said, if the fans work as expected, then they are probably working just fine.

4. is the only other thing that might cause the issue, but I would start with testing M54 although you should replace the glove box bulb if it has blown.
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #31 on: 03 January 2020, 00:38:42 »

Sweepstake result. Queen Camel. About 6 miles/10 minutes.
Replaced the fuse again for the trip home. Turned the Climate control to ECO in the hope that stops the AC compressor being engaged. Got from Barnet around the M25 to the M40 - about 20 minutes.

Here's a definitive list of circuits to check:

S2 Light switch.
S7 Reversing lamp switch.
Instrument cluster.
MK engine cooling - relay box blower M28
MK engine cooling - radiator blower M4
MK engine cooling - cooling/aircon relays: coolant pump, coolant pump timer, radiator blower M11/M12/M54/M4/M28, aircon compressor, fan management.
Telephone.
Warning buzzer.
TID/MID.
Aircon.
Electronic Climate Control.
Car Level Control - control unit/sensor (same unit connected mechanically to the right hand trailing arm).
Glove box light.
Headlight levelling.
Interior lamp (all).
Sun roof.
Window lifters.
Exterior mirrors.
Seat heating.
Seat/mirror memory control relay (under driver seat).
Listed as they appear and are described on the wiring diagram, NOT in order of importance. Although everything unplugged so far has either been unlikely or not on the above list ::)

What have I unplugged that isn't on the list? You have the advantage on me because you seem to have a different circuit diagram. But..it still doesn't seem correct...With F15 blown....

Exterior mirrors still work (both sides, up, down, left, right)
Window lifters still work - all 4 windows go up and down correctly.
Drivers memory seat still works.
Interior lights all still work (except glovebox and S2 illumination).
Reversing lights still work. It's an Auto, so no S7 I think.

All the above would appear to contradict your list?

It can't be seized fans unless F15 directly feeds the fan motor. If F15 just feeds the relay coil for the fan then a seized fan won't blow F15 - it would blow whatever fuse is inline with the fan motor. Of course it could be a faulty (short circuit) fan relay coil.

Will do the rest of your checks tomorrow when I've got access to my Avo and other test gear.
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #32 on: 03 January 2020, 01:18:05 »

I know you don't like Haynes, but it's all I've got to go on....

1. M54 has seized.

Haynes shows M54 wired to Relay K22 pin 5, which is the switched terminal. The supply is pin 2, which is fed from F52 via relay K26. So how does a seized M54 blow F15? A fault with K22 coil could though.

2. S128 fails at temperature.

No. S128 failing short would just turn relays K52 and K28 on (which would turn on various things - none of which are powered by F15). To blow F15 would also require the coils of K52 and/or K28 to be short circuit.

3. S88 fails at temperature.

Again no. S88 failing would just turn on relays K26, K48 and K67.The loads these switch aren't connected to F15. Would require a short on the coils for K26, K48 and/or K67.

4. S2 has an internal fault.

Possible - but I doubt it. I'll pull the light switch tomorrow morning.

Again, the above relies on Haynes being correct.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #33 on: 03 January 2020, 01:51:14 »

Which it isn't... Nothing against Haynes, their Omega wiring diagrams are based on the original Opel ones... for the pre and mid facelift, which isn't your car.

RE the mirrors, don’t forget that more than one fuse is used for several circuits. Also cruise control isn't on the list. The cam sensor and knock sensors are really easy to unplug as well, but you will notice their not on the list either...  ::)

Fuse 15 directly feeds the following Cooling/Aircon relays:

1. K60(Relay - Compressor, Aircon) which controls K87(Relay - Blower, radiator) and controls M4(Motor - Blower, radiator).

2. K52(Relay - Blower, radiator) controls M11(Motor - Blower, radiator) and is fed from M4.

3. K28(Relay - Blower, radiator) controls M11.

4. K48(Relay - Blower, relay box) feeds M28(Motor - Blower, relay box) and is switched by K26(Relay - Blower, radiator).

5. K67(Relay - Blower, radiator) feeds M12(Motor- Blower, radiator).

6. K22(Relay - Pump, coolant) controls M54(Motor - Pump, coolant on the radiator).

K60 also feeds S128(Switch - Temperature, coolant on the radiator) which energises K52 and K28.

K26 feeds S88(Switch - Temperature, coolant on the radiator) which energises K48 and K67. It also provides power to M54.

S20(Switch - pressure on the aircon plumbing) has three parts: S20.1(Switch - Compressor, low pressure), S20.2(Switch - Compressor, high pressure), S20.3(Switch - Revolution, acceleration). S20.3 has a diode connection from both K28 and K48.

M4 and M11 are the front fans, M12 is the main fan.
M54 has three sources of power as per above. If it starts to draw too much current then that could affect the relays and in turn draw a higher current through the fuse. You could replace all the relays and switches listed above, but the coolant transfer pump is an easy test. If it checks out along with the fans, then you're down to relays and loom.

I did say that the radiator temp switches were unlikely to be the culprits but included them as they provide additional fan switching.
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #34 on: 04 January 2020, 22:33:53 »

Which it isn't... Nothing against Haynes, their Omega wiring diagrams are based on the original Opel ones... for the pre and mid facelift, which isn't your car.

The problem is that some of the things on your list definatley aren't powered by F15 either. For instance the interior lights. So the diagrams you have aren't correct for my car either.

RE the mirrors, don’t forget that more than one fuse is used for several circuits.

Sorry but I just don't believe that. For F15 to blow something is taking >20A, and since I've also had a 30A fuse blow that something can also take >30A. If F15 blows and there were another path to power the windows/mirrors etc, then the fuse in that path would also blow. The only way that wouldn't be true is if the supplies were joined by diodes or similar. There is no evidence anywhere I can find for that.

Anyway, today's progress...

I unplugged M54. F15 blew after about 15 minutes.

I replaced F15, and pulled relay K22. The fuse blew after less that 5 minutes.

Pretty sure that rules out M54 and K22.

Whilst F15 is intact, both A/C fans run Ok with the Climate control on LO and the heater blower motor set to minimum blow. I haven't managed to get the engine hot enough to get the main engine fan to come on. However, I just don't believe any of the fan motors are powered by F15 so it won't be them anyway, and they all work as expected using the fan test connector.

If I turn the Climate to either ECO or OFF, then the A/C compressor disengages (the front bit stops spinning), but the fuse still blows sooner or later. So whilst not absolutely definitive it suggests it's not an A/C compressor or K60 fault.

I haven't managed to get the light switch out yet - tomorrow perhaps. However, IMV its very unlikely to be that.

Sunroof doesn't work. Dunno why - never use it but there is no sign of life with the switch in any position. It doesn't blow fuse F15 though when I operate the switch.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #35 on: 05 January 2020, 01:00:14 »

The sunroof adjusts itself according to road speed (why it has a speed signal feed).

Also, if you're adamant that my list is wrong, check the fuse that feeds F15...

Be in the box above the battery. Either F5 or F6. Unable to confirm which as currently fixing an A319 for the orange product...
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #36 on: 05 January 2020, 23:53:18 »

The sunroof adjusts itself according to road speed (why it has a speed signal feed).

Huh? Are you saying the sunroof doesn't/shouldn't work whilst stationary? Coz at the moment mine doesn't. I'm not bothered it - The only concern is to make sure the sunroof motor isn't faulty and blowing the fuse. The best way to make sure of that will be to unplug it.

Also, if you're adamant that my list is wrong, check the fuse that feeds F15...

Why? Replacing fuse F15 allows all the units (ok except possibly the sunroof) downstream of F15 to work again. If there is a another fuse upstream of F15 then it isn't blowing. The fault HAS to be downstream of F15. Which is precisely why it can't be any of the fan motors.

Be in the box above the battery. Either F5 or F6. Unable to confirm which as currently fixing an A319 for the orange product...

Not withstanding the above, Haynes doesn't show a fuse upstream of F15. FV5 and FV6 do protect other fuses/circuits but not F15. F15 is shown as being directly fed from the switched ignition feed line (15) on a 2.5mm black wire. Of course there could be a difference between Haynes and post facelift wiring, but since no-one is prepared to share a copy of the facelift wiring diagram with me....
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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #37 on: 06 January 2020, 02:35:46 »

Actually I offered you the whole thing, but as you didn't even acknowledge it, I can only presume that you didn't want it :-X
« Last Edit: 06 January 2020, 02:45:04 by Doctor Gollum »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #38 on: 06 January 2020, 05:21:44 »

Without getting into a 'debate' about the 'correct' wiring diagram, can you kindly confirm two things?

Quote
W0L 0 V B F35 W 1 000001

W0L = World Manufactuere Identifer
0= Special Vehicle ID ( 0 = No Special)
V = Vehicle Platform (Not for Dealer Use)
B = Vehicle Designation ( Not for Dealer Use)
F35 = Denotes Vehicle Body Style ( F35 = 5 Door Est)
W = Production Year  ( W= 98, X= 99, Y=00, 1=01)
1 = Manufacturing Plant (1 = Ruesselsheim)
000001 = Chassis Number


1.What is the production year letter of your car?
2.What is the date on the rear centre seatbelt?
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #39 on: 07 January 2020, 00:02:09 »

The mirror connection is irrelevant as your car won't have electrically folding mirrors, separate fuse controls the glass position.

If it's actually a 2001MY build, rather than a 2000, then the sunroof connection changes to an alarm ecu one, so there are further differences.

If you're 100% adamant that it's not a cooling system issue or the light switch, although by your own admission it doesn't work properly, then get the car on a lift and inspect the wiring around the following...

1.Level control ecu/sensor on the righthand trailing arm along with the associated loom under the sound deadening beneath the back seat, (look carefully here and you' ll find the relays for the rear seat heaters as well... There's even a guide for that  :-X)

2.Suspension compressor plug and wiring from pump to engine bay.

3.Xenon ecu (above the compressor) plug and wiring to the engine bay.

2 and 3 require headlight removal to properly inspect the loom as it passes through the inner wing.

And as frustrating as all this might be, a thank wouldn't go a miss  :-X
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Andy B

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #40 on: 07 January 2020, 08:56:58 »

The sunroof adjusts itself according to road speed (why it has a speed signal feed). ....

I can only say that the sunroof of my Omega remained open at 3 points and 12 months ban mph ....  ::) ::)
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #41 on: 07 January 2020, 09:42:41 »

The sunroof adjusts itself according to road speed (why it has a speed signal feed). ....

I can only say that the sunroof of my Omega remained open at 3 points and 12 months ban mph ....  ::) ::)
That's as maybe, but yours wasn't the far superior Astra G ::) :P
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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #42 on: 07 January 2020, 10:24:42 »

The sunroof adjusts itself according to road speed (why it has a speed signal feed). ....

I can only say that the sunroof of my Omega remained open at 3 points and 12 months ban mph ....  ::) ::)
That's as maybe, but yours wasn't the far superior Astra G ::) :P
Besides, had you read the manual, comfort mode with it's noise reduction feature is just before fully open on the dial. Fully open won't adjust for road speed  ;)

Not that VX bothered to explain how it actually works in the manual  ::)
« Last Edit: 07 January 2020, 10:29:35 by Doctor Gollum »
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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #43 on: 07 January 2020, 10:47:36 »

The sunroof adjusts itself according to road speed (why it has a speed signal feed). ....

I can only say that the sunroof of my Omega remained open at 3 points and 12 months ban mph ....  ::) ::)
That's as maybe, but yours wasn't the far superior Astra G ::) :P
Besides, had you read the manual, comfort mode with it's noise reduction feature is just before fully open on the dial. Fully open won't adjust for road speed  ;)

Not that VX bothered to explain how it actually works in the manual  ::)

R T F M? ..... how very dare you!  ;D ;D
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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #44 on: 07 January 2020, 12:02:57 »

I know, right... ;D ;D ;D
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