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Author Topic: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )  (Read 11837 times)

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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #30 on: 20 December 2012, 19:20:13 »

Chris, I can say that increasing tire pressure will increase grip , decrease braking distance.. increase cornering ability (lateral-g)..
 
and decrease tramlining upto an extent (actual amounts may differ tyre to tyre)..
 
however, tramlining is a function of tyre/road friction-grip .. so a good quality high grip wide tyre will tramline .. you must be suspicious of grip if it doesnt tramline.. as YZ250 says tyres tend to tramline more when they wear and loose the "channels".. why ? because they losse the straight channels that give direction and  to an extent surface area increase .. :y
 
ps: of course ignoring comfort..
 
pps: I guess actual graph for grip vs pressure would be a U shape upside down so has a limit of course..
Only that theory falls apart with the Dunlops I have on the Silver Bullet.  No tramlining (well, just starting to, but all 4 tyres are now spent), and the grip levels are superb.

The SC5s I have on TBE tramline all over the shop, and the grip is best described as "OK-ish", although other factors are at play on that bloody car.

I dont think you claim SC5 is a bad tyre ;D honestly thread pattern effects tramline..
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TheBoy

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #31 on: 20 December 2012, 19:21:26 »

Each tyre is different, but I find the "best" (for handling) pressures on the SP9000 and Maxx TT's on the bullet is 33psi. Much over 35, it gets very skittish.

Based on 1 driver, no passengers.
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TheBoy

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #32 on: 20 December 2012, 19:23:51 »

Chris, I can say that increasing tire pressure will increase grip , decrease braking distance.. increase cornering ability (lateral-g)..
 
and decrease tramlining upto an extent (actual amounts may differ tyre to tyre)..
 
however, tramlining is a function of tyre/road friction-grip .. so a good quality high grip wide tyre will tramline .. you must be suspicious of grip if it doesnt tramline.. as YZ250 says tyres tend to tramline more when they wear and loose the "channels".. why ? because they losse the straight channels that give direction and  to an extent surface area increase .. :y
 
ps: of course ignoring comfort..
 
pps: I guess actual graph for grip vs pressure would be a U shape upside down so has a limit of course..
Only that theory falls apart with the Dunlops I have on the Silver Bullet.  No tramlining (well, just starting to, but all 4 tyres are now spent), and the grip levels are superb.

The SC5s I have on TBE tramline all over the shop, and the grip is best described as "OK-ish", although other factors are at play on that bloody car.

I dont think you claim SC5 is a bad tyre ;D honestly thread pattern effects tramline..
SC5 is disappointing. I'm basing on grip, rather than stability, due to potential issues with the car.

I think sidewall construction has more effect on tramline. Obviously a lower profile and wider tyre will be more prone.
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #33 on: 20 December 2012, 19:24:18 »

Each tyre is different, but I find the "best" (for handling) pressures on the SP9000 and Maxx TT's on the bullet is 33psi. Much over 35, it gets very skittish.

Based on 1 driver, no passengers.

honestly , I wish we could measure the braking distances of dunlop,conti,f1 on the same track with same car and with the same driver..
this could give precious and exact comparison..
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #34 on: 20 December 2012, 19:26:03 »

Chris, I can say that increasing tire pressure will increase grip , decrease braking distance.. increase cornering ability (lateral-g)..
 
and decrease tramlining upto an extent (actual amounts may differ tyre to tyre)..
 
however, tramlining is a function of tyre/road friction-grip .. so a good quality high grip wide tyre will tramline .. you must be suspicious of grip if it doesnt tramline.. as YZ250 says tyres tend to tramline more when they wear and loose the "channels".. why ? because they losse the straight channels that give direction and  to an extent surface area increase .. :y
 
ps: of course ignoring comfort..
 
pps: I guess actual graph for grip vs pressure would be a U shape upside down so has a limit of course..
Only that theory falls apart with the Dunlops I have on the Silver Bullet.  No tramlining (well, just starting to, but all 4 tyres are now spent), and the grip levels are superb.

The SC5s I have on TBE tramline all over the shop, and the grip is best described as "OK-ish", although other factors are at play on that bloody car.

I dont think you claim SC5 is a bad tyre ;D honestly thread pattern effects tramline..
SC5 is disappointing. I'm basing on grip, rather than stability, due to potential issues with the car.

I think sidewall construction has more effect on tramline. Obviously a lower profile and wider tyre will be more prone.

yep..
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TheBoy

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #35 on: 20 December 2012, 19:27:41 »

Each tyre is different, but I find the "best" (for handling) pressures on the SP9000 and Maxx TT's on the bullet is 33psi. Much over 35, it gets very skittish.

Based on 1 driver, no passengers.

honestly , I wish we could measure the braking distances of dunlop,conti,f1 on the same track with same car and with the same driver..
this could give precious and exact comparison..
Indeed, which is only why I will (can) give tyre advice based on my personal expereince with a specific tyre on Omegas I've driven :)
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #36 on: 20 December 2012, 19:30:47 »

Each tyre is different, but I find the "best" (for handling) pressures on the SP9000 and Maxx TT's on the bullet is 33psi. Much over 35, it gets very skittish.

Based on 1 driver, no passengers.

honestly , I wish we could measure the braking distances of dunlop,conti,f1 on the same track with same car and with the same driver..
this could give precious and exact comparison..
Indeed, which is only why I will (can) give tyre advice based on my personal expereince with a specific tyre on Omegas I've driven :)

I had to say this because you dont accept another condition ;D
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TheBoy

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #37 on: 20 December 2012, 19:33:37 »

Each tyre is different, but I find the "best" (for handling) pressures on the SP9000 and Maxx TT's on the bullet is 33psi. Much over 35, it gets very skittish.

Based on 1 driver, no passengers.

honestly , I wish we could measure the braking distances of dunlop,conti,f1 on the same track with same car and with the same driver..
this could give precious and exact comparison..
Indeed, which is only why I will (can) give tyre advice based on my personal expereince with a specific tyre on Omegas I've driven :)

I had to say this because you dont accept another condition ;D
I have different expectations to some, so also try to base it on what the expectations are. But, unlike reviews, its still based on how they work on Omegas.
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #38 on: 20 December 2012, 19:36:10 »

Each tyre is different, but I find the "best" (for handling) pressures on the SP9000 and Maxx TT's on the bullet is 33psi. Much over 35, it gets very skittish.

Based on 1 driver, no passengers.

honestly , I wish we could measure the braking distances of dunlop,conti,f1 on the same track with same car and with the same driver..
this could give precious and exact comparison..
Indeed, which is only why I will (can) give tyre advice based on my personal expereince with a specific tyre on Omegas I've driven :)

I had to say this because you dont accept another condition ;D
I have different expectations to some, so also try to base it on what the expectations are. But, unlike reviews, its still based on how they work on Omegas.

I wanted to make this test , because I wanted to show that for braking, cornering, results with tests will be proportional..
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feeutfo

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #39 on: 20 December 2012, 20:07:28 »

The idea behind this, is one single aspect of tyre behaviour, and to try and identify what specifications cause it in a tyre.

That single aspect is Tramlining. Hence the pics and info on construction. I believe the answers on tyre pressure where answered on the first page.
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2woody

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #40 on: 20 December 2012, 22:14:02 »

No-one, not even tyre manufacturers really understand how tyres work - that's why so much of their performance is measured, rather than predicted. It follows that you will really only be successful if you try all variants of construction and pick one that suits your car - which is what vehicle manufacturers do for their new vehicles.

You certainly will not get to the point of "construction type A" = "tramlining severity B".

Have you tried it with standard-sized front wheels ? My hunch is that the width has much to do with the tramlining you're experiencing.
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2woody

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #41 on: 20 December 2012, 22:15:24 »

what size do you actually have fitted at the moment ?
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2woody

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #42 on: 20 December 2012, 22:16:14 »

oh yes - and the construction marking is a US requirement. It's present on pretty much all tyres
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #43 on: 20 December 2012, 22:23:33 »

No-one, not even tyre manufacturers really understand how tyres work - that's why so much of their performance is measured, rather than predicted. It follows that you will really only be successful if you try all variants of construction and pick one that suits your car - which is what vehicle manufacturers do for their new vehicles.

You certainly will not get to the point of "construction type A" = "tramlining severity B".

Have you tried it with standard-sized front wheels ? My hunch is that the width has much to do with the tramlining you're experiencing.

more width = more grip (dry,wet)
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #44 on: 20 December 2012, 22:25:21 »

No-one, not even tyre manufacturers really understand how tyres work - that's why so much of their performance is measured, rather than predicted. It follows that you will really only be successful if you try all variants of construction and pick one that suits your car - which is what vehicle manufacturers do for their new vehicles.

You certainly will not get to the point of "construction type A" = "tramlining severity B".

Have you tried it with standard-sized front wheels ? My hunch is that the width has much to do with the tramlining you're experiencing.

yep.. although some physics rule still applicable (for some parameters) :y
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