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[TheBoy]

please read my tramlining thread..

I have. It's generalisations, and makes some assumptions to give not necessarily correct impressions. And wrong in places.

Tramlining of a tyre is 100% down to tyre rigidity.  Obviously suspension has an impact if you vary the chassis (and why tyre reviews are a waste of time, unless its on the same/similar chassis), but for different tyres on the same chassis, this is not relevent.

[feeutfo]

That post is a bit back to school tbh. Putting it politely.

[05omegav6]

Was it 245/40/18 for the 8J s I've slept since I last looked

By the way, Wikipedia is a third fact, a third gossip and a third imaginary

[feeutfo]

Was it 245/40/18 for the 8J s I've slept since I last looked

By the way, Wikipedia is a third fact, a third gossip and a third imaginary

245 where the ones that behaved. 235 tramlined.

Both recommended sizes.

[TheBoy]

By the way, Wikipedia is a third fact, a third gossip and a third imaginary

And 100% wrong when I'm running online quizzes 

[YZ250]

Tramlining of a tyre is 100% down to tyre rigidity.  Obviously suspension has an impact if you vary the chassis (and why tyre reviews are a waste of time, unless its on the same/similar chassis), but for different tyres on the same chassis, this is not relevent.

Think this test may be harder to resolve than originally thought. 

We have two allegedly identical cars, same age, same colour, same model, same wheels and tyres and both are only a few weeks old with only a few hundred miles on the clock, so no wear at all on any components to account for. One of them suffers from no noticable tramlining but the other, which sits about an inch higher and has a very slightly softer ride, suffers from mild tramlining. 
Incidentally, as far as the tyres go, with up to 580Nm of torque, I can lose grip on acceleration very easily, even on kick-down at around 25-30mph, but the straight-line braking ability of the same tyre is very good. So, a tyre that is relatively 'unloaded' is shite for grip on acceleration but is great for 'loaded' braking stopping distance. 

Good luck with the tests. 

[cem_devecioglu]

please read my tramlining thread..

I have. It's generalisations, and makes some assumptions to give not necessarily correct impressions. And wrong in places.

Tramlining of a tyre is 100% down to tyre rigidity.  Obviously suspension has an impact if you vary the chassis (and why tyre reviews are a waste of time, unless its on the same/similar chassis), but for different tyres on the same chassis, this is not relevent.

Mr Admin.. Today , I have read many pages about the subject.. And have notes from serious tyre sites, discussion groups where people agree on and some other helpful sites.. And later I summarize my notes and give some brief.. And it was not surprising to see their views were highly parallel..
 
By the way , most of the heated debates on tramlining were on BMW sites    
 
And I must add, your conclusion is highly personal and not reflecting the physic rules where general consensus is focused on..
 
 
 
 
 

[feeutfo]

Tramlining of a tyre is 100% down to tyre rigidity.  Obviously suspension has an impact if you vary the chassis (and why tyre reviews are a waste of time, unless its on the same/similar chassis), but for different tyres on the same chassis, this is not relevent.

Think this test may be harder to resolve than originally thought. 

We have two allegedly identical cars, same age, same colour, same model, same wheels and tyres and both are only a few weeks old with only a few hundred miles on the clock, so no wear at all on any components to account for. One of them suffers from no noticable tramlining but the other, which sits about an inch higher and has a very slightly softer ride, suffers from mild tramlining. 
Incidentally, as far as the tyres go, with up to 580Nm of torque, I can lose grip on acceleration very easily, even on kick-down at around 25-30mph, but the straight-line braking ability of the same tyre is very good. So, a tyre that is relatively 'unloaded' is shite for grip on acceleration but is great for 'loaded' braking stopping distance. 

Good luck with the tests. 

set up?

[feeutfo]

please read my tramlining thread..

I have. It's generalisations, and makes some assumptions to give not necessarily correct impressions. And wrong in places.

Tramlining of a tyre is 100% down to tyre rigidity.  Obviously suspension has an impact if you vary the chassis (and why tyre reviews are a waste of time, unless its on the same/similar chassis), but for different tyres on the same chassis, this is not relevent.

Mr Admin.. Today , I have read many pages about the subject.. And have notes from serious tyre sites, discussion groups where people agree on and some other helpful sites.. And later I summarize my notes and give some brief.. And it was not surprising to see their views were highly parallel..
 
By the way , most of the heated debates on tramlining were on BMW sites    
 
And I must add, your conclusion is highly personal and not reflecting the physic rules where general consensus is focused on..
 
 
 
 
 

Once again cem, no body is questioning your googling.

These are oddities that don't fit the normal rules. Hence the issues we've had, and the need for hands on approach.


The Chav wheel sizes you mention are indeed more likely to tramline. Fully accepted. Has been for years.

But look more closely within that statement, and my sc3 issue defies the accepted explanation.

Because the wider tyre of the two did not tramline AT ALL. EVEN WHEN WORN OUT.

[feeutfo]

Further more TB's TT don't tram line. Until 3/4 used.


TB's completely odd set of worn out, old, one mud and snow, 3 summer, one split side wall, one Autogrip utterly shite "set" of tyres didn't tram line. Where as his brand spanking new sc5 tramline more than his clown car michelins did.

Now I know that you personally have recommended sc5 to me on here. Perhaps you can advise us where the problem is?

Lets start with TB's sc5's. why do they have no directional stability at all? They tramline all over the place! Cem?

[Kevin Wood]

I've always had tramlining towards the end of a tyre's life, so probably due to lack of compliance when the tread blocks are non-existent 1.6mm high.

[TheBoy]

cem, I accept there is a language barrier as English is not your first language (but you've really got to grips with it ), but you are completely missing the point.

Do they describe why wider tyres cause more tramlining? No. Its purely down to the tyres construction. Yes, the rigidity of a tyre will vary with width/profile if the construction and materials are identical. But that doesn't simply mean that a wider tyre must tramline more.

Additionally, it doesn't explain why 4 matched SC5 tyres, 235/40/18 are so much more unstable in both a straight line, and under braking than 4 different branded, mixed summer/winter 235/40/18 tyres. On the same chassis. Remember, these are the same SC5s that Golf and Mondeo owners piss their pants over. I've done the £700 experiment, and can categorically say, they are most definately not suitable for our Omegas, whatever irrelevent reviewers say.

It doesn't explain why the current 235/45/17 tyres on my MV6 provide the most tramline-resistant ride of every single Omega I have ever driven, and I've driven an awful lot of them. Yet has the widest, lowest profile of the standard Omega sizes.

Beware, there is an awful lot of bullshit out on the Internet. I know, I posted some of it .  I know you work in IT, so you are aware that 99% of IT journalists are full of shit. I have no reason so believe that automotive journalists have a better ratio.

[cem_devecioglu]

please read my tramlining thread..

I have. It's generalisations, and makes some assumptions to give not necessarily correct impressions. And wrong in places.

Tramlining of a tyre is 100% down to tyre rigidity.  Obviously suspension has an impact if you vary the chassis (and why tyre reviews are a waste of time, unless its on the same/similar chassis), but for different tyres on the same chassis, this is not relevent.

Mr Admin.. Today , I have read many pages about the subject.. And have notes from serious tyre sites, discussion groups where people agree on and some other helpful sites.. And later I summarize my notes and give some brief.. And it was not surprising to see their views were highly parallel..
 
By the way , most of the heated debates on tramlining were on BMW sites    
 
And I must add, your conclusion is highly personal and not reflecting the physic rules where general consensus is focused on..
 
 
 
 
 

Once again cem, no body is questioning your googling.

These are oddities that don't fit the normal rules. Hence the issues we've had, and the need for hands on approach.


The Chav wheel sizes you mention are indeed more likely to tramline. Fully accepted. Has been for years.

But look more closely within that statement, and my sc3 issue defies the accepted explanation.

Because the wider tyre of the two did not tramline AT ALL. EVEN WHEN WORN OUT.

there is no oddity in science Chris.. if there is an oddity , either your theory suffers from a bad equation with lacking/wrong parameters or it fails in general (=utter boll*x )
 
I have no doubt your issues are somewhere in those parameters which are defined (anyway they dont leave any parameter behind )
 
I ordered them from highest to lowest importance..
 
Unfotunately, I havent seen anywhere any measurement device for the degree of tramlining (which must measure force).. so we are talking about unmeasurable sense??? units.. may be there is tramlining , its compansated and you dont feel who knows..
 
 

[feeutfo]

I suspect the "wide tyres CAUSE tramlining" is a tyre shop get out clause tbh.


Again accepting the likeyhood is increased with Chav sizes. But it is absolutely not the categorical answer. Because 245 40 18 sc3 mo do not tram line AT ALL. THIS SIZE IS WAY BIGGER, than some smaller sizes that do tram line.

Please explain?

[TheBoy]

Unfotunately, I havent seen anywhere any measurement device for the degree of tramlining (which must measure force).. so we are talking about unmeasurable sense??? units.. may be there is tramlining , its compansated and you dont feel who knows..

Hence, my stand that tyre reviews/stats are useless (useless in the practical sense, but they sell magazines )