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[feeutfo]

Cem, you recommended sc5 to me!

well , if I really did, you deserve the best tyre

Except someone else took the advice.

correct tyre wrong size

Not with you.

Neither am I actually... I'm sure that the tests are the benchmark that the advice was given against and they must test all tyres the same size on the same vehicles

Basic logic. It's dispels the myths and legends.
Wider tyres tram line. NO !
Experience to back this up=conti sc3 mo. 245 wide tyre drives dead straight. 235 wide tyre tram lines needing numerous corrections at the wheel, pulling around on bad surfaces. Conclude, the wider tyre tram lines the least.
Wider tyres might be more likely to tram line, but the width itself is not the cause in itself.

Low profile tyres tram line. NO!
Sc3 mo exact same profile tyres as above, one tram lines, one doesn't. They might be more likely to tram line in a low profile, but the low profile itself is clearly not the cause. Another example, 235 45 17 falkens 912 452 and 451 tram line MORE than the lower profile 40 MO. the wider and lower 245 40 18 doesn't tram line at all.

It's not the size that's the exact cause. Example, sport maxx TT in 235 45 17 tram line less than any other car I've been in.

It's not the tyre wear that causes tram lining as such. Example, half worn FALKEN 912 tram line way way more than completely worn out SP9000. In the same size.

It's not specific to the car either, as the example above. Remove FALKEN 912 from a tram lining car, and fit worn out Dunlop sp9000 or sport maxx gt, and the car drives perfectly straight.


EVERY SINGLE MYTH or "RULE" regarding tram lining has been proved wrong. Except the ones relating to construction. Speed rating, load rating, run flat, non run flat, all have more effect. But I have a theory that, like trouser measurements and shoe sizes, one manufacturers load rating is not the same as another's. construction of the tyre is up to the maker. We'll never know whats in there, but we can keep an eye in how they perform.

[dbug]

Tramlining - the wider the tyre the greater the tendency to tramline - fact (you seem to contradict yourself above gixer)
But - there are many more tyre "issues" that affect tramlining - pressures (need to use a properly calibrated tyre gauge to test not a Halfords cheapo!!), side wall flexability, rubber composition, ambient temperatures, et alia et alia. . .  and last but not least the foibles of the car itself, differences in suspension set up, suspension/steering wear, chassis straightness etc etc.  No 2 "identical" cars ever drive the same at "extremes" of performance/handling.

Ever towed a horsebox with 2 large horses in - they move about - and crossplys at higher psi a lot more stable than radials with softer sidewalls - less flexing.

Recognise you have a hell of a lot of variables to understand trying to compare performance of different tyres on different cars using different drivers!!  The way to do it is to be scientific (professional not amateur) - as in my days of tyre testing for Dunlop, and among others Eric Broadley's mob, both on the track and on the road.

 

 

[TheBoy]

and thats got a different make on each corner.....each tyre cancels out any of the other tyres bad characteristics....makes perfect sense to me.....you should try it   

I have. The very same TBE, on the very same Irmscher Sportstar 18", with a Sunew, Diamondback, Sunny (IIRC) and CEAT (IIRC). A real Heinz 57.

Guess what? NO oppsING TRAMLINING. OK, maybe a hint, but minimal. And better braking distances, esp in dry.

This tramlining is purely down to these tyres. Thats been proven time and time again. The poor braking characteristics have been proven to the tyres. SIZE MAKES opps ALL DIFFERENCE IN THIS TEST, as the previous tyres were the same 235/40/18.

Mrs TB is absolutely correct, Continental SC5 are absolutely shit on the Omega.

She says this from personal experience of driving 2 Omegas with them on. I say this from personal experience of driving 2 Omegas with them on.


The reason I started this thread, apart from her slightly amusing, abrupt review wording, as to demonstrate that if Mrs TB notices it, being more of a girly girl, it must be bad. ie, not a minor complaint.

[cem_devecioglu]

Cem, you recommended sc5 to me!

well , if I really did, you deserve the best tyre

Except someone else took the advice.

correct tyre wrong size

Not with you.

Neither am I actually... I'm sure that the tests are the benchmark that the advice was given against and they must test all tyres the same size on the same vehicles

Wider tyres tram line. NO !

Low profile tyres tram line. NO!

 
 
 
 
does the rockets fly ? NO
 
is the earth spherical ? NO   
 
seems like you are re-inventing physics..  the claims you make are only valid on ice 
 

[TheBoy]

Tramlining - the wider the tyre the greater the tendency to tramline - fact (you seem to contradict yourself above gixer)
But - there are many more tyre "issues" that affect tramlining - pressures (need to use a properly calibrated tyre gauge to test not a Halfords cheapo!!), side wall flexability, rubber composition, ambient temperatures, et alia et alia. . .  and last but not least the foibles of the car itself, differences in suspension set up, suspension/steering wear, chassis straightness etc etc.  No 2 "identical" cars ever drive the same at "extremes" of performance/handling.

Ever towed a horsebox with 2 large horses in - they move about - and crossplys at higher psi a lot more stable than radials with softer sidewalls - less flexing.

Recognise you have a hell of a lot of variables to understand trying to compare performance of different tyres on different cars using different drivers!!  The way to do it is to be scientific (professional not amateur) - as in my days of tyre testing for Dunlop, and among others Eric Broadley's mob, both on the track and on the road.

 

dbug - I know from private conversations that you have lots to offer this tyre debate, and I fully understand your reasons for not wishing too.

[TheBoy]

I have just mentioned to Mrs TB that her review has caused a bit of a heated debate amongst members.

She says "I'm entitled to my opinion. They're crap. I wouldn't wish them on my worse enemy"

[cem_devecioglu]

I think some of you must accept the fact that Omega is not designed as a race car and cant handle the huge sizes..
 
ok.. I give up.. its a truck and you can use any size you wish

Ignoring hasn't worked 

Not a race car, but still can be made to handle tidily for its size. Set up correctly, with suitable components (including proven tyres), it is quite a formidable fast road car
 
   thats really relative to the commenter..   lets say luxury sedan..


By proven, I mean tried and tested on an Omega B and in appropriate sizes, on wheels accepted by the factory as suitable, whether 15"/16"/17 or 18", with acceptable characteristics regarding wear/noise/grip/feedback/tramlining etc

Unless you have direct experience under those conditions, it might be prudent to sit back and take notes.
 
says who.. who recommends a 40th order tyre

[dbug]

Tramlining - the wider the tyre the greater the tendency to tramline - fact (you seem to contradict yourself above gixer)
But - there are many more tyre "issues" that affect tramlining - pressures (need to use a properly calibrated tyre gauge to test not a Halfords cheapo!!), side wall flexability, rubber composition, ambient temperatures, et alia et alia. . .  and last but not least the foibles of the car itself, differences in suspension set up, suspension/steering wear, chassis straightness etc etc.  No 2 "identical" cars ever drive the same at "extremes" of performance/handling.

Ever towed a horsebox with 2 large horses in - they move about - and crossplys at higher psi a lot more stable than radials with softer sidewalls - less flexing.

Recognise you have a hell of a lot of variables to understand trying to compare performance of different tyres on different cars using different drivers!!  The way to do it is to be scientific (professional not amateur) - as in my days of tyre testing for Dunlop, and among others Eric Broadley's mob, both on the track and on the road.

 

dbug - I know from private conversations that you have lots to offer this tyre debate, and I fully understand your reasons for not wishing too.

  not being controversial just factual Jaime and will sit back and watch proceedings (unless of course I get slagged off again) - understand your issues with sc5 (obviously not suited to Omegas set up, but may probably work well on other marques else they wouldn't sell ) - but your tramlining would be even wosre with wider sc5s 

[TheBoy]

Tramlining - the wider the tyre the greater the tendency to tramline - fact (you seem to contradict yourself above gixer)
But - there are many more tyre "issues" that affect tramlining - pressures (need to use a properly calibrated tyre gauge to test not a Halfords cheapo!!), side wall flexability, rubber composition, ambient temperatures, et alia et alia. . .  and last but not least the foibles of the car itself, differences in suspension set up, suspension/steering wear, chassis straightness etc etc.  No 2 "identical" cars ever drive the same at "extremes" of performance/handling.

Ever towed a horsebox with 2 large horses in - they move about - and crossplys at higher psi a lot more stable than radials with softer sidewalls - less flexing.

Recognise you have a hell of a lot of variables to understand trying to compare performance of different tyres on different cars using different drivers!!  The way to do it is to be scientific (professional not amateur) - as in my days of tyre testing for Dunlop, and among others Eric Broadley's mob, both on the track and on the road.

 

dbug - I know from private conversations that you have lots to offer this tyre debate, and I fully understand your reasons for not wishing too.

  not being controversial just factual Jaime and will sit back and watch proceedings (unless of course I get slagged off again) - understand your issues with sc5 (obviously not suited to Omegas set up, but may probably work well on other marques else they wouldn't sell ) - but your tramlining would be even wosre with wider sc5s 

I think thats the problem with tyres - too many variables. I've said on numerous occasions that I bet SC5s are great on Golfs etc. Just unsuited to Omegas. Unsure why that is so - if we could understand that, then we would be better placed in being able to choose tyres with less risk.

[cem_devecioglu]

question : what was the original tyre size choosen by factory when the car was initally made ?  205/65 -15
 
question : in later years does the front drive train setup change with newer models ? NO
 
question : will the omega tramline on Contis with that size ? hardly..
 
 
if you go for larger sizes, even if same size with later models , you are on your own..

But the sizes fitted are factory sizes, if you opt for Irmscher Sport Stars from new

thats an aftermarket item

That could be ordered for dealer fitting to brand new cars before delivery, therefore and approved option for the Omega  
 

yeah.. you can order aftermarket xenons for ordinary headlights .. and they happily install them while they are illegal for mot

[cem_devecioglu]

Tramlining - the wider the tyre the greater the tendency to tramline - fact (you seem to contradict yourself above gixer)
But - there are many more tyre "issues" that affect tramlining - pressures (need to use a properly calibrated tyre gauge to test not a Halfords cheapo!!), side wall flexability, rubber composition, ambient temperatures, et alia et alia. . .  and last but not least the foibles of the car itself, differences in suspension set up, suspension/steering wear, chassis straightness etc etc.  No 2 "identical" cars ever drive the same at "extremes" of performance/handling.

Ever towed a horsebox with 2 large horses in - they move about - and crossplys at higher psi a lot more stable than radials with softer sidewalls - less flexing.

Recognise you have a hell of a lot of variables to understand trying to compare performance of different tyres on different cars using different drivers!!  The way to do it is to be scientific (professional not amateur) - as in my days of tyre testing for Dunlop, and among others Eric Broadley's mob, both on the track and on the road.

 

dbug - I know from private conversations that you have lots to offer this tyre debate, and I fully understand your reasons for not wishing too.

  not being controversial just factual Jaime and will sit back and watch proceedings (unless of course I get slagged off again) - understand your issues with sc5 (obviously not suited to Omegas set up, but may probably work well on other marques else they wouldn't sell ) - but your tramlining would be even wosre with wider sc5s 

I think thats the problem with tyres - too many variables. I've said on numerous occasions that I bet SC5s are great on Golfs etc. Just unsuited to Omegas. Unsure why that is so - if we could understand that, then we would be better placed in being able to choose tyres with less risk.

contis have very high levels of grip.. you could have used sizes 215/225 50 55 17 with less tramlining..

[dbug]

Tramlining - the wider the tyre the greater the tendency to tramline - fact (you seem to contradict yourself above gixer)
But - there are many more tyre "issues" that affect tramlining - pressures (need to use a properly calibrated tyre gauge to test not a Halfords cheapo!!), side wall flexability, rubber composition, ambient temperatures, et alia et alia. . .  and last but not least the foibles of the car itself, differences in suspension set up, suspension/steering wear, chassis straightness etc etc.  No 2 "identical" cars ever drive the same at "extremes" of performance/handling.

Ever towed a horsebox with 2 large horses in - they move about - and crossplys at higher psi a lot more stable than radials with softer sidewalls - less flexing.

Recognise you have a hell of a lot of variables to understand trying to compare performance of different tyres on different cars using different drivers!!  The way to do it is to be scientific (professional not amateur) - as in my days of tyre testing for Dunlop, and among others Eric Broadley's mob, both on the track and on the road.

 

dbug - I know from private conversations that you have lots to offer this tyre debate, and I fully understand your reasons for not wishing too.

  not being controversial just factual Jaime and will sit back and watch proceedings (unless of course I get slagged off again) - understand your issues with sc5 (obviously not suited to Omegas set up, but may probably work well on other marques else they wouldn't sell ) - but your tramlining would be even wosre with wider sc5s 

I think thats the problem with tyres - too many variables. I've said on numerous occasions that I bet SC5s are great on Golfs etc. Just unsuited to Omegas. Unsure why that is so - if we could understand that, then we would be better placed in being able to choose tyres with less risk.

Think I've said it before - years ago Goodyear G800s worked very well on Cooper Ss, but I had a set on a TR4 (on it when I bought it) and they were lethal.  Put XASs on and brilliant handling (ie suited to my driving style which was a little on the quick side), but XASs on Coopers were pretty crap to say the least.  Put that down to completely differing suspension set ups on different types of car.

[STMO123]

My old MGZT had 225's on. It would tramline something awful. But it simply refused to let go on the sharpest of bends. They were low profile though.

[TheBoy]

contis have very high levels of grip.. you could have used sizes 215/225 50 55 17 with less tramlining..

No they don't. SC5s have relatively poor levels of grip. Immediately apparent from the journey back from having them fitted. I was hoping it was just the release agent, but its not.

Would we agree that narrower tyres (in wet/dry) conditions have less grip? So you are suggesting a size giving even less grip than what is on there now, currently providing, at best, adequate grip?

[feeutfo]

Tramlining - the wider the tyre the greater the tendency to tramline - fact (you seem to contradict yourself above gixer)
But - there are many more tyre "issues" that affect tramlining - pressures (need to use a properly calibrated tyre gauge to test not a Halfords cheapo!!), side wall flexability, rubber composition, ambient temperatures, et alia et alia. . .  and last but not least the foibles of the car itself, differences in suspension set up, suspension/steering wear, chassis straightness etc etc.  No 2 "identical" cars ever drive the same at "extremes" of performance/handling.

Ever towed a horsebox with 2 large horses in - they move about - and crossplys at higher psi a lot more stable than radials with softer sidewalls - less flexing.

Recognise you have a hell of a lot of variables to understand trying to compare performance of different tyres on different cars using different drivers!!  The way to do it is to be scientific (professional not amateur) - as in my days of tyre testing for Dunlop, and among others Eric Broadley's mob, both on the track and on the road.

 

 

Well seeing as I'm being slagged off....your wrong!

Falkens aside, I've had more tyres that didn't tram line that did. There's no contradiction. The tyres that didn't tramline are clear. The tendency to tram line on wider lower tyres is accepted, but as you've seen there equally tyres that don't tram line. SIZE IS NOT THE ULTIMATE CAUSE.

I see dbug is also in cem mode.