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Author Topic: short runner or long runner plenum  (Read 1739 times)

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cem_devecioglu

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #15 on: 15 April 2014, 15:55:59 »

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cem_devecioglu

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #16 on: 15 April 2014, 15:56:24 »

Yes, but then you need to tune the runners for low revs before the turbo has woken up, which means really long runners. ;)


or accept the low torque ;D
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05omegav6

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #17 on: 15 April 2014, 16:01:53 »

Nope :D

That said, being a wrong wheel drive grot box, low torque is no bad thing ::)
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cem_devecioglu

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #18 on: 15 April 2014, 16:02:56 »

here is one useful link that I found when googling..


it describes the basics of concept and gives some calculations.. which may be useful for some members who are interested in mods


http://www.stealth316.com/misc/grapeape-inductionsystems.pdf


here is a example



"The Helmholtz resonator theory does work well, however, it is limited to how many cylinders can
operate off a single plenum. To be effective, no more than 4 cylinders should be used in a single
plenum. This set up is very effective on 6 cylinder engine with two plenums, each plenum feeding 3
cylinders. To make matters worse, the cylinders must be even firing, so simply dividing banks of a V6
or V8 will not work unless the banks each fire evenly. For a V8, the best solution is to use a 180
degree crankshaft to even out the firing order of each bank. Then the Helmholtz resonator can be
applied as if it were a pair of 4 cylinders. It is possible to see small gains at low rpm
with using one plenum for 8 cylinders, but this will usually lead to a reduction in top-end power. There
are 3 tunable aspects of the Helmholtz resonator, the plenum volume, intake ram pipe, and intake ram
pipe diameter. "
 
« Last Edit: 15 April 2014, 16:09:00 by cem »
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cem_devecioglu

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #19 on: 15 April 2014, 16:26:53 »

here is the interesting page


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cem_devecioglu

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #20 on: 15 April 2014, 16:30:45 »

looking at the pictures standard 6 cylinder bmw inlet manfolds ignore the helmholtz's theory.. but omega engine design seriously considered that theory ???
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05omegav6

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #21 on: 15 April 2014, 17:05:29 »

Presumably the v6 allows design opportunities not available on straight 6 engines :-\
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cem_devecioglu

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #22 on: 15 April 2014, 17:17:22 »

Presumably the v6 allows design opportunities not available on straight 6 engines :-\


or had to make seperate plenums ..   they logical connect the butterfly in the mid but this wont make it a helmholts resonator..
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cem_devecioglu

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #23 on: 17 April 2014, 22:02:42 »

I find this quite informative.. it tells the plenum volume increase effects performance, consumption and also CO2 emissions..

http://muhserv.atauni.edu.tr/makine/akifceviz/pdf_files/A/e.pdf
« Last Edit: 17 April 2014, 22:04:27 by cem »
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Kevin Wood

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Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #24 on: 17 April 2014, 22:09:45 »

Presumably the v6 allows design opportunities not available on straight 6 engines :-\

Not necessarily. The intakes on the C30XE were split into 2 branches each with a small plenum and interconnecting valve in the same way as the V6. They just didn't have the second valve further up the intake that the V6 has. :y
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cem_devecioglu

  • Guest
Re: short runner or long runner plenum
« Reply #25 on: 18 April 2014, 11:15:27 »

Presumably the v6 allows design opportunities not available on straight 6 engines :-\


or had to make seperate plenums ..   they logical connect the butterfly in the mid but this wont make it a helmholts resonator..


seems like my head was busy ;D   I was talking about bimmer design..  :-\


yep.. you have right V6 design have some visible benefits on plenum and runner design :y

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