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Author Topic: WARNING tyre question  (Read 10633 times)

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YZ250

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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #30 on: 03 February 2017, 22:30:13 »

Phoned around today, 12 different suppliers, no Goodyear AS2 97Y available at all, so I'm going to be forced to change ... :(

Has anyone tried the AS3 version ??

Rainsport 3's  or Michelin PS4's seem to be getting support here ...

:(

I've got Goodyear Assy 3's on all four corners on mine. I'm more than happy with the grip in both wet and dry but then again I was more than happy with the Assy 2's that they replaced. There is a certain section of road on my journey home from work that has repaired Tarmac and it tramlines like an arse on that particular section of road, as did my Assy 2's. I can't recall ever having a tyre on it that didn't tramline to some degree, and I've owned it from a few months old.
The reason I stuck with them, I've had a few occasions where I've had to sling the anchors on really hard in pouring rain. The ABS never cut in to my knowledge and they stopped when I needed them to stop so that's good enough for me. If I use that stopping grip in the rain just once then they have been worth it.  :y
I've also deliberately pushed them pretty hard through corners in the wet as a test for the team and have had no dramas so far.
We speak as we find so others will have different views of the same tyre.



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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #31 on: 04 February 2017, 00:02:18 »


[/quote]
The ABS never cut in to my knowledge
[/quote]

You'd know if the ABS had cut in - you would have experienced a very hard kicking through the foot brake, as the brakes were released and reapplied sharply in quick succession until the tyres got the necessary grip under firm braking.
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omega2018

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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #32 on: 04 February 2017, 03:02:24 »





my budget tyres are asymmetric :) :) :)


Tristar Ecopower 4S 235/45 R17 97W XL, £53 a corner, fitted.  All season (check out those sipes!). EU rating: ECB
« Last Edit: 04 February 2017, 03:06:58 by migmog »
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #33 on: 04 February 2017, 09:18:12 »

Michelin PS4's seem to be getting support here ...
I can't yet recommend them until I have entirely been through a set - traditionally Michelin are soft at start, then become more durable as they wear, giving a feeling of good grip initially, and last for ages (at the expense of performance).

Both Omegas have had them on for approx. 1yr now.  I've been happy with performance levels, but one car has only done 6k in the last 12 months, guess TBE is around 10k.

Mrs TB is a little easier on tyres than me, but she hasn't complained of TC kicking in pulling out of junctions.  If I get 10-12k out of the Bullet's rears I'll be content, as they perform better than the likes of RTs (and leagues ahead of the GY F1 A2).

Given the performance available, I'd have to assume that life isn't their strong point.


Note, due to this and last winter being relatively mild, I can't comment on winter performance.
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #34 on: 04 February 2017, 10:47:26 »

I got 40k out of a set of budget tyres on an omega and never once lost control of it... Some of you have some pretty strange ways of destroying tyres it would seem.   :-\

Glad someone else is on the same page   ;D


And me. Some of the reported wear on here makes me wonder how they still have driving licenses. But my car still has the same front brake pads that were on it when I bought it 6 years ago.
The only set of tyres that lasted me less than 10,000 miles was when I was stupid enough to fit large tyres to narrow wheels. The same tyre in an appropriate size lasted 3 times as long.

This.

I put 4 new tyres on 8 months ago. Haven't changed a bit. Cheap budgets. Though they are quite "firm" 😂

Also I think I am about the same with you on pads.... I think they were changed 5 years ago. Still nowhere near being replaced.
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #35 on: 04 February 2017, 11:27:01 »





my budget tyres are asymmetric :) :) :)


Tristar Ecopower 4S 235/45 R17 97W XL, £53 a corner, fitted.  All season (check out those sipes!). EU rating: ECB

I'll try your "Tristar's" then when I have worn my Rainsport 3's out  :P.  Gonna take a while at 1000mls a year  ;D
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #36 on: 05 February 2017, 10:05:49 »

EU rating: ECB
Without even knowing which test each letter is assigned to in ECB, I can categorically state that I would not recommend that tyre to anyone, as at best wet grip is B, which is poor.

The euro labelling is pointless wank anyway, as its not in depth enough, and concentrates on fuel economy. Who gives a toss a bout fuel economy, we drive big barges, and over the lifetime of the tyre, the difference between A and G is about a gallon of petrol. Noise I can accept. But safety, ie grip levels, should be the most important thing to anyone...   ...and what does this labelling give us? A straight line stop in the wet. Crap.
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #37 on: 05 February 2017, 10:31:44 »

As a rule of thumb, the worse the efficiency rating, the better the tyre grips.

Wet performance is more of a black art...
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omega2018

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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #38 on: 05 February 2017, 11:20:55 »

EU rating: ECB
Without even knowing which test each letter is assigned to in ECB, I can categorically state that I would not recommend that tyre to anyone, as at best wet grip is B, which is poor.

The euro labelling is pointless wank anyway, as its not in depth enough, and concentrates on fuel economy. Who gives a toss a bout fuel economy, we drive big barges, and over the lifetime of the tyre, the difference between A and G is about a gallon of petrol. Noise I can accept. But safety, ie grip levels, should be the most important thing to anyone...   ...and what does this labelling give us? A straight line stop in the wet. Crap.

actually the calculation of the wet grip rating is quite complicated and is based on the ISO standard originally developed for bus and truck tyres ISO 15222:2011

if you're interested in the science there is plenty on the net e.g. have a read here https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2011/wp29grrf/GRRF-71-10e.pdf and here
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r117rev.2E.pdf

of course you can always rely on opinion and manufacturer advertising if you prefer ::).

here's an extract anyway

Test procedure for measuring wet grip
1. General Test Conditions
1.1. Track characteristics
The track shall have a dense asphalt surface with a gradient in any direction
not exceeding 2 per cent. It shall be of uniform age, composition, and wear
and shall be free of loose material or foreign deposits. The maximum
chipping size shall be 10 mm (tolerances permitted from 8 mm to 13 mm)
and the sand depth measured as specified in ASTM standard E 965-96 (2006)
shall be 0.7 ±0.3 mm.
The surface friction value for the wetted track shall be established by one or
other of the following methods:
1.1.1. Standard reference test tyre (SRTT) method
When tested using the SRTT and the method given in paragraph 2.1. the
average peak brake force coefficient (pbfc) shall be between 0.6 and 0.8. The
measured values shall be corrected for the effects of temperature as follows:
pbfc = pbfc (measured) + 0.0035 (t - 20)
where "t" is the wetted track surface temperature in degrees Celsius.
The test shall be conducted using the lanes and length of the track to be used
for the wet grip test;
1.1.2. British pendulum number (BPN) method
The averaged British pendulum number (BPN) of the wetted track, measured
in accordance with the procedure given in the ASTM standard E 303-93
(2008) and using the pad as specified in ASTM standard E 501-08, shall be
between 40 and 60 after temperature correction. Unless temperature
correction recommendations are indicated by the pendulum manufacturer, the
following formula can be used:
BPN = BPN (measured value) + 0.34 · t - 0.0018 · t² - 6.1
where "t" is the wetted track surface temperature in degrees Celsius.
In the lanes of the track to be used during the wet grip tests, the BPN shall be
measured at intervals of 10 m along the length of the lanes. The BPN shall be
measured 5 times at each point and the coefficient of variation of the BPN
averages shall not exceed by 10 per cent.
1.1.3. The Type Approval Authority shall satisfy itself of the characteristics of the
track on the basis of evidence produced in test reports.
1.2. Wetting conditions
The surface may be wetted from the track-side or by a wetting system
incorporated into the test vehicle or the trailer.
E/ECE/324/Rev.2/Add.116/Rev.2
E/ECE/TRANS/505/Rev.2/Add.116/Rev.2
Annex 5
50
If a track-side system is used, the test surface shall be wetted for at least half
an hour prior to testing in order to equalize the surface temperature and water
temperature. It is recommended that track-side wetting be continuously
applied throughout testing.
The water depth shall be between 0.5 and 1.5 mm.
1.3. The wind conditions shall not interfere with wetting of the surface (windshields
are permitted).
The wetted surface temperature shall be between 5 °C and 35 °C and shall
not vary during the test by more than 10 °C.
2. Test Procedure
The comparative wet grip performance shall be established using either:
(a) A trailer or special purpose tyre evaluation vehicle; or
(b) A standard production passenger carrying vehicle......................
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #39 on: 05 February 2017, 12:35:04 »

As a rule of thumb, the worse the efficiency rating, the better the tyre grips.

Wet performance is more of a black art...
Indeed, and kind of eco tyre is reliant on low rolling resistance, which means being devoid of grip.

We know virtually all budget tyres, once the first couple of thousand miles are gone, have a massive difference between wet and dry performance.
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #40 on: 05 February 2017, 22:51:03 »

Thanks for all the comments, appreciate the candour .. :) I've also been reading the BMW / Merc forums as I see little point in reading tyre reviews for FWD gokarts. Using those sites, and the comments from here ...I'll be ringing around tomorrow for prices on Michelin PS4s I think... web prices seem to be around £103 a corner fully fitted for the 97 XL version - I always fit 97 XL due to the amount of tin-tent towing I do !!  :)
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #41 on: 06 February 2017, 16:02:13 »

Well ... wasted an hour of my life phoning all the Swindon outlets, eventually ordered from Blackboots on-line at £104 each, to be fitted at a garage less than 200 yards from me on Thursday !! Swindon prices varied from £116 to £136 .. except for one outlet ..... and takes a deep breath .....

Kwik-fit Swindon want £144.99 each ... but their own website is quoting £102.55 each for exactly the same tyre !!!  A phone call to check that I had not been miss-quoted .. nope .. that is the correct local price, but if I wish to book on-line then I'll get them at £102.55 ... when I pointed out this was a simple and total ripoff system he declined to comment .....

I knew they were useless rip-off merchants .. but to the tune of £43 a corner ??? ..... GRRRRRRR   .....    and breathe ...... 

:(
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Re: WARNING tyre question
« Reply #43 on: 06 February 2017, 18:51:45 »

Thanks for all the comments, appreciate the candour .. :) I've also been reading the BMW / Merc forums as I see little point in reading tyre reviews for FWD gokarts. Using those sites, and the comments from here ...I'll be ringing around tomorrow for prices on Michelin PS4s I think... web prices seem to be around £103 a corner fully fitted for the 97 XL version - I always fit 97 XL due to the amount of tin-tent towing I do !!  :)
chrisgixer and I admired the rears on the bullet, and he glibbed "you'll get more than 10k out of these".  They have done 6k already.

They are 235/45/17 standard size, fairly certain they are XL.

Whilst I accept our driving styles ae not the same, I'll be amazed if you are not content with them (durability as yet unknown), compared to the GY F1 A2s you had.
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