Topic: TD Cooling - Ideas needed (Read 5411 times)

TheBoy · « **on:** 05 May 2007, 19:36:47 »

I though I had nearly solved it, but I am still getting a lot of pressure building up in the cooling.

Just gave it a bit of a thrashing back from Silverstone round the back roads - about 10 miles. Lots of Captain Slows (story of my day), so most of the way was 40mph cruising. Had the tech2 monitoring ecu sensors, and temp hit 102.

Whilst that may seem high, remember on these tractors that the high speed fan comes on at 105 according to the markings on the switch.

It built up enough pressure to blow a load of coolant through the cap.

So far, its had:
New water pump (nothing wrong with old one)
New stat (old one drilled)
New rad (old one had a large cold spot)
Replacement expansion bottle
4 caps
A couple of flushes with rad cleaner (Holts Speedflush) - first one brought loads of crap out, 2nd brought nothing out.

I have some Forte coolant flush on order from Ebay, but the scumbag seller seems to be slow getting off his arse and posting it

I really am stuck for ideas now....

Dazzler · « **Reply #1 on:** 05 May 2007, 19:52:00 »

If all the hoses are getting equally hot and the heater matrix then my guess would be the headgasket, have you tried a Co2 sniffer in the header tank?

TheBoy · « **Reply #2 on:** 05 May 2007, 20:14:30 »

Quote

If all the hoses are getting equally hot and the heater matrix then my guess would be the headgasket, have you tried a Co2 sniffer in the header tank?

I have not had tank sniffed, as I am absolutely convinced the HG is OK. Remember, this is a diesel, and HGs on diesels are very, very noticable. The idle is sweet as a nut (noisy as its a tractor), and no bubbles appearing in expansion tank (except after coolant refill as it bleeds the air out).

wombatcurry · « **Reply #3 on:** 05 May 2007, 20:40:22 »

You say tech 2 temp indicated 102 - what did you see on the dash guage? For info - the dash guage picks the temp off the sensor next to injector2, the one next to injector4 gives info to the engine management system.
Your fans are turning? these are triggered by the thermostats on the rad (speed 1 @ 100/95C, speed 2 @ 105/100C)
Are you sure the system is fully purged of air?
What coolant are you using?
Do you have any fault codes stored? (ie 14 or 15?)

TheBoy · « **Reply #4 on:** 05 May 2007, 20:54:17 »

Quote

You say tech 2 temp indicated 102 - what did you see on the dash guage? For info - the dash guage picks the temp off the sensor next to injector2, the one next to injector4 gives info to the engine management system.
Your fans are turning? these are triggered by the thermostats on the rad (speed 1 @ 100/95C, speed 2 @ 105/100C)
Are you sure the system is fully purged of air?
What coolant are you using?
Do you have any fault codes stored? (ie 14 or 15?)

The dash temp gauge reads rubbish, as I've found out. However, the Tech2 can say what the dash is trying to read (ie, reading the sensor), and its normally a couple of degrees less than the ecu one, though I know the dash one is 'damped' and a few seconds behind.

Low speed fans coming on about 97/98 ish, not sure its getting hot enough for high speed fans.

I have flushed it several times, and believe I have the air out every time.

Using a 50:50 mix of Vauxhall Red antifreeze and tap water.

TheBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** 05 May 2007, 21:46:30 »

I did have a 15 code, now fixed. Someone had cut one of the wires by the sensor. As said, this has now been repaired...

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #6 on:** 06 May 2007, 00:26:20 »

I know I've gone on about this before...and it's a totally differenet engine

But I had a Peugeot 1.9 TD, and the HG let go on that, just to the point it was pressuring the coolant system when hot.. there were no other misfiring symptoms etc

As said before, I 100% agree that HG is unlikely, but the more I learn about cars, especially listening to Mark, is that you can not overlook a factor in the equation, or assume something is OK, unless you've proven it. Which is why, for the sake of getting a sniffer in the header tank, it might just be worth it?

Even if just to shut me up

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #7 on:** 06 May 2007, 10:39:55 »

I would remove the pipes from the engine and check them all and flush them all individualy, to ensure

A) There are no blockages
B) None of the pipes are de-laminating

I would also then flush the engine from the rear to front with the water pump removed....that way if there are any old stray blades....hopefuly they should come out...

TheBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** 06 May 2007, 12:28:28 »

I have reversed flushed the block, but from outlet back to stat (stat is on inlet on these). Worth doing back to pump instead? Will I need a new seal?

Pitchfork · « **Reply #9 on:** 06 May 2007, 12:30:54 »

Is your Intercooler Fan operating?
Mine was seized up causing the engine to work extra hard & therefore generate more heat
IW

TheBoy · « **Reply #10 on:** 06 May 2007, 12:32:32 »

Quote

Is your Intercooler Fan operating?
Mine was seized up causing the engine to work extra hard & therefore generate more heat
IW

The intercooler fan is working as intended by Vx - ie, only comes on with low speed engine fans...

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #11 on:** 06 May 2007, 17:24:47 »

I think you need to flushing towards the pump...because if there is a past impeller failure stuck in there....its more liekly to come out this way...

TheBoy · « **Reply #12 on:** 06 May 2007, 17:27:00 »

Quote

I think you need to flushing towards the pump...because if there is a past impeller failure stuck in there....its more liekly to come out this way...

OK, I was going to try some of that 2 stage cleaner, but didn't get to shops in time, so will do tomorrow. As part of the thorough flush out afterwards, I will remove pump, and shove a hose in the water outlet to rad....

TheBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** 06 May 2007, 21:11:44 »

Quote

I would remove the pipes from the engine and check them all and flush them all individualy, to ensure

A) There are no blockages
B) None of the pipes are de-laminating

I would also then flush the engine from the rear to front with the water pump removed....that way if there are any old stray blades....hopefuly they should come out...

OK,
Removed the main pipes from rad to block. Both OK, clear, no signs of damage, though it looks like one of them has had the very end trimmed. They do not appear to be delaminating.

I have removed the water pump and stuck a hose in the coolant outlet (both inlet and outlet are at front of engine), and flushed. Nothing but clear water. No bits, no impeller blades, nothing.

Whilst the pump was out, using a mirror, I had a peer in. Behind the waterpump is what is presumably cylinder 1 at an angle. The wall of this has what looks like hard deposits that I couldn't wipe off :-/

Any thing else to try?

TheBoy · « **Reply #14 on:** 07 May 2007, 13:30:01 »

Just repeated another experiment that I had tried before, but now getting different result (probably due to all the other work).

With the heater on HI, the temperature does seem lower. Just been around the lanes, not thrashing the nuts off it, but not hanging around, and it stayed below 100 degrees. So done a 90mph trip to Towcester and back (about 20miles on dual carriageway), and it for the most part in stayed around 96 ish, except the long climb from Towcester to Silverstone where it went to 104.

The above was with the heater on HI, and readings from Engine ECU.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #15 on:** 07 May 2007, 21:39:49 »

102 degrees is not hot enough to blow the rad. cap so you must have either air introduced to the cooling system by, for example, a head gasket failure, or poor circulation of the coolant causing localised overheating and boiling of the coolant inside the engine, while the ECU sender is seeing slow moving coolant at a reasonable temperature.

My money is on the latter. At 90 there is so much airflow through the rad. that the engine should get as much cooling as it needs IF it can circulate coolant fast enough through the rad. The fact that the heater makes a difference in this case is key, because it probably promotes just a little more coolant circulation through the engine. Ordinarily a rad. moving through the air at 90 would lose way more heat than a little heater matrix.

Problem is, if the circulation is poor and it's not improved by flushing it may be a head off job to investigate. If there are dodgy deposits visible in the engine it does start to look like there's something clogging the water jacket up.

Kevin

TheBoy · « **Reply #16 on:** 07 May 2007, 21:46:18 »

Another theory, and I am thinking out aloud here, is the main inlet and outlets are at the front. One heater pipe is at the rear. Could it be the rear cylinders are getting insufficient cooling due to coolant flow there being poor, and by turning on heater is causing more circulation at the rear?

The ECU temp sensor reads 2 or 3 degrees warmer than the dash sensors. Not sure if this is just tolerances, but the dash one is near cyl 2, ecu one is near cyl 4.....

Hmmmm.....

Whatever, I still have no idea how to resolve...

Dazzler · « **Reply #17 on:** 07 May 2007, 21:57:48 »

It seems that you have changed most things and flushed etc........So my theory is if the whole water system is getting hot evenly(no cold or really hot spots) then the fault must lie with the headgasket allowing slight pressuring of the water system

I have had 1 car over the years that was fine with normal driving around but after 10 mins at above 70mph would start to overheat. That in the end turned out to be the headgasket....but not found until i had changed everthing else mind you

TheBoy · « **Reply #18 on:** 07 May 2007, 22:03:59 »

Right, Mrs TB has mentioned something.

Is the readings from the ECU's damped? I know the instrument one is, but the engine one?

The readings tend to go up after the event by a few seconds... :-/

TheBoy · « **Reply #19 on:** 07 May 2007, 22:04:44 »

Quote

It seems that you have changed most things and flushed etc........So my theory is if the whole water system is getting hot evenly(no cold or really hot spots) then the fault must lie with the headgasket allowing slight pressuring of the water system
I have had 1 car over the years that was fine with normal driving around but after 10 mins at above 70mph would start to overheat. That in the end turned out to be the headgasket....but not found until i had changed everthing else mind you

Problem is, every diesel HG I've seen fail, boy do you know about it....

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #20 on:** 07 May 2007, 22:34:32 »

Quote

Another theory, and I am thinking out aloud here, is the main inlet and outlets are at the front. One heater pipe is at the rear. Could it be the rear cylinders are getting insufficient cooling due to coolant flow there being poor, and by turning on heater is causing more circulation at the rear?

Normally with this kind of setup the holes in the head gasket are sized from front to back to equalise the temperature throughout the engine, as far as possible. You'll have small coolant holes between head and block at the front because you've already got lots of water flowing past these areas to the back of the engine, and you're close to the pump with lots of coolant pressure. You'll have bigger holes at the back of the engine to promote an equal cooling effect back there.

So, in an ideal world, it shouldn't make a lot of difference but bung some of the holes / waterways up with radweld / eggs or use a cheap head gasket with the wrong size holes and it's a different story. It could be that there's a problem with flow to the back of the head and that the heater promotes a little more flow which helps matters.

Kevin

wombatcurry · « **Reply #21 on:** 09 May 2007, 20:44:48 »

I'm sure you're generating too much heat or not losing enough of it - neither of my TDs ever get that high (albeit on the dash guage) - the old one runs around 92 constantly (95 thrashing up telegraph hill), the new one seems to run at approx 80 occasionally rising to 90 max.

If you're sure that the cooling system is in order (ie you're losing heat correctly), it's time to start wondering where extra heat could be coming from. Sorry to say it, but HG??

TheBoy · « **Reply #22 on:** 09 May 2007, 21:08:31 »

Yeah, I am at a loss to work out whats wrong.

I am beginning to wonder if head has to come off to check for bits of old pump or other blocakge. However, that is not a task I can tackle on my own

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #23 on:** 09 May 2007, 21:18:35 »

Well you have lots of friends so ask for help!

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #24 on:** 09 May 2007, 21:25:18 »

Quote

I am beginning to wonder if head has to come off to check for bits of old pump or other blocakge.

Only other thing I can think of is to give it a flush with something much more aggressive than you have previously tried. This could afford to be a kill or cure step if the only other option is removal of the head. Something that dissolves limescale maybe? Dishwasher powder or acid? Remove the heater matrix and rad. from the circuit by bypassing them with hoses, fill it, run it up to temperature a few times and then drain and flush with a hose straight away to prevent prolonged contact with the internals. Might be worth a shot :-/

Is the turbo water cooled? Just wondering if the connections to that are blocked? Then again, it wouldn't contain enough water for it to blow the cap if it suffered localised boiling, I'm sure.

Kevin

TheBoy · « **Reply #25 on:** 09 May 2007, 22:00:10 »

Quote

Quote
I am beginning to wonder if head has to come off to check for bits of old pump or other blocakge.

Only other thing I can think of is to give it a flush with something much more aggressive than you have previously tried. This could afford to be a kill or cure step if the only other option is removal of the head. Something that dissolves limescale maybe? Dishwasher powder or acid? Remove the heater matrix and rad. from the circuit by bypassing them with hoses, fill it, run it up to temperature a few times and then drain and flush with a hose straight away to prevent prolonged contact with the internals. Might be worth a shot :-/

Is the turbo water cooled? Just wondering if the connections to that are blocked? Then again, it wouldn't contain enough water for it to blow the cap if it suffered localised boiling, I'm sure.

Kevin

Turbo is air cooled.

I should have some Forte arrive in next day or so, see what that does. Already tried bleach (I'm getting desperate!), also screenwash is supposed to be a cure for all ailments, though have to be careful as its flammable!

Keep the ideas coming

TheBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** 09 May 2007, 22:01:40 »

Quote

Well you have lots of friends so ask for help!

Thank you for kind words

I am, however, very concious of putting out many ~~members~~ friends here already, esp M_DTM, LB66, Tunnie, and JamesV6CDX

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #27 on:** 09 May 2007, 22:21:51 »

Quote

Quote
Well you have lots of friends so ask for help!
Thank you for kind words

I am, however, very concious of putting out many ~~members~~ friends here already, esp M_DTM, LB66, Tunnie, and JamesV6CDX

Do you think the two Marks, Dave and James would mind - you host and look after the forum, you do Tech2, I don't think they would mind at all - I will ask my dad if he knows of this problem (retired BMW mechanic).

I know that James has already offered help - I think too many people would get in the way. Who here is the TD expert?

wombatcurry · « **Reply #28 on:** 09 May 2007, 22:58:01 »

Damned shame I'm not in England at the moment - I'd have liked to have given you a hand (would have been a good learning exercise for when/if have to pull a head).
Good luck with it - I'm sure you'll let us know.
Are you supposed to replace head bolts when you undo them - I spotted a set on ebay a few days ago that might be of use.

TheBoy · « **Reply #29 on:** 10 May 2007, 09:00:06 »

Just another idea...

Seeing as the stat is on the coolant inlet, if the radiator was cooling too much, would that cause stat to close, hence hot engine?

wombatcurry · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 May 2007, 09:06:43 »

I can't see how the rad can cool too much - it was designed like that & other cars seem to work ok with the design.

TheBoy · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 May 2007, 09:07:47 »

Quote

I can't see how the rad can cool too much - it was designed like that & other cars seem to work ok with the design.

But with a locked visco fan.....

wombatcurry · « **Reply #32 on:** 10 May 2007, 09:11:53 »

Ahh :-/

wombatcurry · « **Reply #33 on:** 10 May 2007, 09:15:33 »

Having thought about it for a minute - if your visco fan is always on, then it's even more surprising that you've got overheating - a thermostat not opening would certainly lead to high pressures - the flow could only go thru the bypass - and that is not normally designed for higher revs & therefore higher flow rates. You might be onto something here.

wombatcurry · « **Reply #34 on:** 10 May 2007, 09:20:28 »

I thought I'd seen a new visco fan on ebay recently - just had a look & it's still there.

BUT it 284Euros & it's in Poland!!!

Is there any correlation between the time that your fan was locked & the time when the overpressurising started?

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #35 on:** 10 May 2007, 09:21:11 »

Quote

Seeing as the stat is on the coolant inlet, if the radiator was cooling too much, would that cause stat to close, hence hot engine?

I would be surprised but this type of setup can be temperamental. It's one of the contributors to the K series' appetite for head gaskets IMO.

What is critical with this type of setup is that the stat has plenty of bypass flow behind it so that it is responsive to the temperature of the coolant circulating in the engine NOT the coolant returning from the rad, which will be cold. This makes me start thinking about the fact that the heater makes a difference again. Can you see a bypass hose going to the engine side of the thermostat housing? I'm guessing it might be fed from the HBV or somewhere on the cylinder head? If this were blocked I'd expect wierd things to happen.

I think at speed the viscous fan will just be wasting fuel. I doubt it makes a big contribution to airflow once you're up to speed. Besides, they probably sell these in Norway too. The rad will be seeing MUCH colder air there.

Kevin

TheBoy · « **Reply #36 on:** 10 May 2007, 09:23:41 »

Quote

I thought I'd seen a new visco fan on ebay recently - just had a look & it's still there.

BUT it 284Euros & it's in Poland!!!

Is there any correlation between the time that your fan was locked & the time when the overpressurising started?

The fan when I got it had failed - seemed to spin slower the hotter it got. So I acquired a seized one...

But, I think I'm barking up the wrong tree - I have tried the old (drilled) stat, no improvement....

hotel21 · « **Reply #37 on:** 10 May 2007, 11:32:45 »

Just read through this thread.....

Thinking that any build up of limescale within the engine block may well act as an insulator and restrict the cooling effect. Could well be worse towards the rear of the engine block if the circulation pressure is reduced a little.

If you are looking for something a tad more agressive to disolve limescale etc that may well be inhibiting cooling effect, how about some of that stuff that the always shouting Barry Scott is on about on the TV - Cillit Bang or whatever its called? Certainly cleans pennies and limescale deposits and may be worth a punt prior to the next flush...

TheBoy · « **Reply #38 on:** 10 May 2007, 12:21:00 »

Quote

Just read through this thread.....

Thinking that any build up of limescale within the engine block may well act as an insulator and restrict the cooling effect. Could well be worse towards the rear of the engine block if the circulation pressure is reduced a little.

If you are looking for something a tad more agressive to disolve limescale etc that may well be inhibiting cooling effect, how about some of that stuff that the always shouting Barry Scott is on about on the TV - Cillit Bang or whatever its called? Certainly cleans pennies and limescale deposits and may be worth a punt prior to the next flush...

Had thought about it (or, truthfully, Mrs TheBoy had mentioned it), not sure if too harsh?

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #39 on:** 10 May 2007, 12:29:33 »

Quote

Had thought about it (or, truthfully, Mrs TheBoy had mentioned it), not sure if too harsh?

I don't think anything is too harsh to instantly kill an engine. As long as it's in there for long enough to do the job and not left standing in the engine for ages you'll be OK.

Probably the most vulnerable part will be around the fire rings on the cylinder head gasket where you've got a couple of dissimilar metals together and you need a decent seal. However, with the amount of crud that must be in there for the cooling to suffer I don't think it's getting that far!

When I had my engine rebored they cleaned it in an acid bath. It took the (thick layer of) paint off the block. Granted it wasn't assembled with the water pump, head gasket, etc. but it does show what you can do! The water jacket in that was immaculate. Bare metal! Which reminds me. I must treat it to a coolant change!

Kevin

smoothomega · « **Reply #40 on:** 10 May 2007, 17:28:24 »

Hi TB.
Been reading through this thread and just a couple of things to add. If you want to clear the lime scale etc from the engine then as i have mentioned in another thread there is nothing better in my mind than central heating cleaner (fernox) i have used this to great effect on other cars and you would not beleave the amount of crap it removes. Secondly it may be worth trying a product called "water wetter" which it claims to lower the temp in the cooling system by several degrees by chemically removing the heat. Buggered if i know how it works but it may be worth a try. I have seen it on ebay and if you type it into google it will find it for you. Hope this is of some help to you and i will keep an eye open for any results.
Cheers, Jez.

TheBoy · « **Reply #41 on:** 10 May 2007, 17:42:01 »

Quote

Hi TB.
Been reading through this thread and just a couple of things to add. If you want to clear the lime scale etc from the engine then as i have mentioned in another thread there is nothing better in my mind than central heating cleaner (fernox) i have used this to great effect on other cars and you would not beleave the amount of crap it removes. Secondly it may be worth trying a product called "water wetter" which it claims to lower the temp in the cooling system by several degrees by chemically removing the heat. Buggered if i know how it works but it may be worth a try. I have seen it on ebay and if you type it into google it will find it for you. Hope this is of some help to you and i will keep an eye open for any results.
Cheers, Jez.

I now have some Forte stuff to try. Then may try fernox. How would I use fernox? - put some in (how much) and do a few miles (how many?). Or just flush with fernox?

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #42 on:** 10 May 2007, 19:12:00 »

Quote

Quote
Hi TB.
Been reading through this thread and just a couple of things to add. If you want to clear the lime scale etc from the engine then as i have mentioned in another thread there is nothing better in my mind than central heating cleaner (fernox) i have used this to great effect on other cars and you would not beleave the amount of crap it removes. Secondly it may be worth trying a product called "water wetter" which it claims to lower the temp in the cooling system by several degrees by chemically removing the heat. Buggered if i know how it works but it may be worth a try. I have seen it on ebay and if you type it into google it will find it for you. Hope this is of some help to you and i will keep an eye open for any results.
Cheers, Jez.
I now have some Forte stuff to try. Then may try fernox. How would I use fernox? - put some in (how much) and do a few miles (how many?). Or just flush with fernox?

I just had a look at the fernox website.....max strength 1kg to 10 litres (which is about the same as an omega) ....4 hours min / 12 hours max......tho you may want to reduce the quantity or how long you leave it in for as the temp is hotter with engine running

They do a neutraliser for the stuff as well.

Worth a go I guess if the Forte stuff doesnt work

Have a look here http://www.fernox.com/?cccpage=ds3&sub=6

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #43 on:** 10 May 2007, 19:19:27 »

Water wetter is essentially a detergent which breaks down the surface tension of the water apparently leading to better heat transfer to / from the surfaces it is in contact with. It also contains a corrosion inhibitor and is designed to be used where no antifreeze is used, IIRC.

Maybe it would help but there is a fundamental problem somewhere because the engine should cool itself happily without it.

Fernox is an interesting idea though.

Kevin

Omegatoy · « **Reply #44 on:** 10 May 2007, 20:51:07 »

Im still puzzling over this one

the bit that doesent make sense is it can be left ticking over for hours or cruising as long as you like and it doesent over heat, as soon as you have been booting it for five mins it gets hot then if you cruise agin it cools down, so to me headgasket doesent fit the bill, its more of a flow problem,either not enough flow or the heat exchange fromthe rad is not enough when boosting, the only thing that you havent done is improve the airflow through the rad by removing the aircon rad and there is no guarantee thats going to work!!!

think as said the viscous isnt going to help when doing high speed but it will help cool the whole thing down at lower speeds,
what happend when you last swapped the drilled stat ? cos the only thing that seems to fit is the stat is causing a restriction in the flow? assuming you havent got a collapsed or seperated hose somewhere in the system,
having the heater on makes a difference againnpoints to a flow problem and the heater helps to improve the flow? does that make sense? the later ones have a hbv dont they? whereas the early ones dont, wwondr if its possible to get that out of the system and try it then?

Pitchfork · « **Reply #45 on:** 11 May 2007, 14:30:10 »

Cillit Bang
Hi, Remember me? I'm BARRY SCOTT
CAN YOU HEAR ME OR SHOULD I SHOUT?
According to this month's Which Magazine (other publications are available) Anthony Worell-Thompson's brand of limescale remover comes our best in tests
The problem is that all of the different brands of similar cleaners come in relatively small spray type packages so if it would work, you would have to empty the conents of quite a few into the cooling system

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #46 on:** 11 May 2007, 15:09:51 »

Quote

Im still puzzling over this one the bit that doesent make sense is it can be left ticking over for hours or cruising as long as you like and it doesent over heat, as soon as you have been booting it for five mins it gets hot then if you cruise agin it cools down, so to me headgasket doesent fit the bill, its more of a flow problem,either not enough flow or the heat exchange fromthe rad is not enough when boosting, the only thing that you havent done is improve the airflow through the rad by removing the aircon rad and there is no guarantee thats going to work!!! think as said the viscous isnt going to help when doing high speed but it will help cool the whole thing down at lower speeds,
what happend when you last swapped the drilled stat ? cos the only thing that seems to fit is the stat is causing a restriction in the flow? assuming you havent got a collapsed or seperated hose somewhere in the system,
having the heater on makes a difference againnpoints to a flow problem and the heater helps to improve the flow? does that make sense? the later ones have a hbv dont they? whereas the early ones dont, wwondr if its possible to get that out of the system and try it then?

Hence like I said....my next port of call would be to remove all hoses, flush them and inspect them and reverse flush the block with the water pump removed....

smoothomega · « **Reply #47 on:** 11 May 2007, 15:15:48 »

Quote

Quote
Hi TB.
Been reading through this thread and just a couple of things to add. If you want to clear the lime scale etc from the engine then as i have mentioned in another thread there is nothing better in my mind than central heating cleaner (fernox) i have used this to great effect on other cars and you would not beleave the amount of crap it removes. Secondly it may be worth trying a product called "water wetter" which it claims to lower the temp in the cooling system by several degrees by chemically removing the heat. Buggered if i know how it works but it may be worth a try. I have seen it on ebay and if you type it into google it will find it for you. Hope this is of some help to you and i will keep an eye open for any results.
Cheers, Jez.
I now have some Forte stuff to try. Then may try fernox. How would I use fernox? - put some in (how much) and do a few miles (how many?). Or just flush with fernox?

Hi TB
Sorry i never replied last night. In the past when iv'e used fernox i have added it one day and let it get round the engine by making sure the stat has opened and then let it get to work during the night and flushed the following day. I have never used nutraliser, i think this is added to the existing mixture, i have just flushed and refilled the system. Hope this helps.

Cheers, Jez

Omegatoy · « **Reply #48 on:** 11 May 2007, 20:11:15 »

Quote

Quote
Im still puzzling over this one the bit that doesent make sense is it can be left ticking over for hours or cruising as long as you like and it doesent over heat, as soon as you have been booting it for five mins it gets hot then if you cruise agin it cools down, so to me headgasket doesent fit the bill, its more of a flow problem,either not enough flow or the heat exchange fromthe rad is not enough when boosting, the only thing that you havent done is improve the airflow through the rad by removing the aircon rad and there is no guarantee thats going to work!!! think as said the viscous isnt going to help when doing high speed but it will help cool the whole thing down at lower speeds,
what happend when you last swapped the drilled stat ? cos the only thing that seems to fit is the stat is causing a restriction in the flow? assuming you havent got a collapsed or seperated hose somewhere in the system,
having the heater on makes a difference againnpoints to a flow problem and the heater helps to improve the flow? does that make sense? the later ones have a hbv dont they? whereas the early ones dont, wwondr if its possible to get that out of the system and try it then?

Hence like I said....my next port of call would be to remove all hoses, flush them and inspect them and reverse flush the block with the water pump removed....

SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN DUDE!!

TheBoy · « **Reply #49 on:** 12 May 2007, 21:09:11 »

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Im still puzzling over this one the bit that doesent make sense is it can be left ticking over for hours or cruising as long as you like and it doesent over heat, as soon as you have been booting it for five mins it gets hot then if you cruise agin it cools down, so to me headgasket doesent fit the bill, its more of a flow problem,either not enough flow or the heat exchange fromthe rad is not enough when boosting, the only thing that you havent done is improve the airflow through the rad by removing the aircon rad and there is no guarantee thats going to work!!! think as said the viscous isnt going to help when doing high speed but it will help cool the whole thing down at lower speeds,
what happend when you last swapped the drilled stat ? cos the only thing that seems to fit is the stat is causing a restriction in the flow? assuming you havent got a collapsed or seperated hose somewhere in the system,
having the heater on makes a difference againnpoints to a flow problem and the heater helps to improve the flow? does that make sense? the later ones have a hbv dont they? whereas the early ones dont, wwondr if its possible to get that out of the system and try it then?

Neither of the 2 main hoses from rad to block seem to be blocked or likely to collapse. These are the hoses, I believe, that do all the cooling.

The HBV on this is a simple on/off with just and in and out, unlike the 3 port ones on V6. It simply cuts off flow to the heater matrix.....

Elite Pete · « **Reply #50 on:** 13 May 2007, 09:29:58 »

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Hi TB.
Been reading through this thread and just a couple of things to add. If you want to clear the lime scale etc from the engine then as i have mentioned in another thread there is nothing better in my mind than central heating cleaner (fernox) i have used this to great effect on other cars and you would not beleave the amount of crap it removes. Secondly it may be worth trying a product called "water wetter" which it claims to lower the temp in the cooling system by several degrees by chemically removing the heat. Buggered if i know how it works but it may be worth a try. I have seen it on ebay and if you type it into google it will find it for you. Hope this is of some help to you and i will keep an eye open for any results.
Cheers, Jez.
I now have some Forte stuff to try. Then may try fernox. How would I use fernox? - put some in (how much) and do a few miles (how many?). Or just flush with fernox?

Hi TB
Sorry i never replied last night. In the past when iv'e used fernox i have added it one day and let it get round the engine by making sure the stat has opened and then let it get to work during the night and flushed the following day. I have never used nutraliser, i think this is added to the existing mixture, i have just flushed and refilled the system. Hope this helps.
Cheers, Jez

After reading the previous post by Jez about using Fernox. I put it in the Elite when I did the cambelt, I had the rad out for a flush and I pressure washed the aircon condenser from the engine bay out. I was suprised at the about of turd the Fernox shifted and the car runs a lot cooler now. I was in the local scrap yard on Wednesday and theres a 98 Omega diseasel there if you need anything

TheBoy · « **Reply #51 on:** 13 May 2007, 10:25:02 »

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Im still puzzling over this one the bit that doesent make sense is it can be left ticking over for hours or cruising as long as you like and it doesent over heat, as soon as you have been booting it for five mins it gets hot then if you cruise agin it cools down, so to me headgasket doesent fit the bill, its more of a flow problem,either not enough flow or the heat exchange fromthe rad is not enough when boosting, the only thing that you havent done is improve the airflow through the rad by removing the aircon rad and there is no guarantee thats going to work!!! think as said the viscous isnt going to help when doing high speed but it will help cool the whole thing down at lower speeds,
what happend when you last swapped the drilled stat ? cos the only thing that seems to fit is the stat is causing a restriction in the flow? assuming you havent got a collapsed or seperated hose somewhere in the system,
having the heater on makes a difference againnpoints to a flow problem and the heater helps to improve the flow? does that make sense? the later ones have a hbv dont they? whereas the early ones dont, wwondr if its possible to get that out of the system and try it then?

Hence like I said....my next port of call would be to remove all hoses, flush them and inspect them and reverse flush the block with the water pump removed....

Which I did a week ago using a hose into the water outlet, and pump removed. Water came through clear. Left it running a while, to see if it would shift anything, but it didn't. As far as I can see, the 2 big hoses from rad to block are fine. I don't think the other hoses which seem to be related to heater play any real part in cooling?

TheBoy · « **Reply #52 on:** 13 May 2007, 15:12:14 »

Used the Forte coolant stuff now, doesn't look like its made a difference

Where do I get Fernox - somewhere like Wicks/B&Q, or a proper plumbers merchant?

Elite Pete · « **Reply #53 on:** 13 May 2007, 15:56:46 »

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Used the Forte coolant stuff now, doesn't look like its made a difference

Where do I get Fernox - somewhere like Wicks/B&Q, or a proper plumbers merchant?

Got mine from B&Q

Dave-C · « **Reply #54 on:** 13 May 2007, 18:29:11 »

TB remind me, is it a manual or an auto?

DaveC

TheBoy · « **Reply #55 on:** 13 May 2007, 18:58:16 »

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TB remind me, is it a manual or an auto?

DaveC

Auto

Dave-C · « **Reply #56 on:** 13 May 2007, 19:18:01 »

On a previous thread I posted my overheating problems when towing with my auto.... My petrol runs at about 96c normal conditions, but, on several occasions when towing, even with an ambient temp of less than freezing, it still overheated,,, red light on and all!!!! I'm contemplating changing the gerbox fluid n' filter.... Just wondering if the old original Dex II is not disipating the heat properly and thus causing the radiator to heat up off the condensor......

Do you think that this may be an issue!!! Anyone??

Dave C

TheBoy · « **Reply #57 on:** 13 May 2007, 19:19:48 »

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On a previous thread I posted my overheating problems when towing with my auto.... My petrol runs at about 96c normal conditions, but, on several occasions when towing, even with an ambient temp of less than freezing, it still overheated,,, red light on and all!!!! I'm contemplating changing the gerbox fluid n' filter.... Just wondering if the old original Dex II is not disipating the heat properly and thus causing the radiator to heat up off the condensor......

Do you think that this may be an issue!!! Anyone??

Dave C

Unlikely I would say.....

Dave-C · « **Reply #58 on:** 13 May 2007, 19:32:49 »

Must be honest, Had a 2.8 Granny auto in the 80's and a 2.9 in the 90's, they had a cooler built into the radiator, advice for towing was to fit an extra cooler because the hotter the box got it had reflection on the running temp of the engine... hence the rad wouldn't cool the dexII properly and thus blow the seals in the box.... (Viscous Circle

) I know I've diversified from the thread... but, gut feeling drives me.... Best of luck with this one, I'll be watching this thread closely.... Please keep us posted...

Dave C

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #59 on:** 13 May 2007, 19:51:12 »

But remember that the OMEGA should have Dex III in it....not Dex II

Dave-C · « **Reply #60 on:** 13 May 2007, 19:58:07 »

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But remember that the OMEGA should have Dex III in it....not Dex II

That's right Mark, I'm surprised that the genuine VX DexIII is NOT red... Dark green ish!!!! Are other DexIII's red???

Doing mine sooooooooooooon!!

DC

Also, read your reply on autobox gaskets last week, use the Locktite stuff! I assume that's insted of the gaskets and not in addition??

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #61 on:** 13 May 2007, 20:43:01 »

Instead of....Loctite 598....available from Halfords and other good parts suppliers...

TheBoy · « **Reply #62 on:** 13 May 2007, 20:53:18 »

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But remember that the OMEGA should have Dex III in it....not Dex II

Which, as you know, it has...

Pitchfork · « **Reply #63 on:** 20 May 2007, 13:24:00 »

Having had similar problems for some time which were not resolved by changing the Viscous Fan or Water pump, I was able to really check out the latest actions at this weekend on the trip to the Shepley Festival i.e. New Intercooler fan, new Thermostat & blasting air through the radiator (inside to out)
Most of the time maintaine 92.5 deg C occasionally seeing 95 when labouring & a couple of 97.5 s when really labouring up steep Pennine roads. So seems that I may have fixed it although at some point I will flush the Rad through as an additional precaution.
IW

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Author Topic: TD Cooling - Ideas needed (Read 5411 times)

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