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Author Topic: quick query 3.45diff  (Read 6456 times)

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Zippy2012

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #15 on: 11 May 2012, 00:48:41 »

ok woody i do that tomorrow mate cheers  :y

im running a 225 60 15 tyre atmo nexen directional with 6mm tread.. at the mo..

i was running a 245 40 17 but on motorway was only doing 24/26mpg but with the 225 60 15s im doing 32mpg over the last 2 weeks

the standard police tyre fitted was 205 65 15 & speedo calibrated to that... but with the 225 60 15s im doing same mph 60/60
& the 245 was 2mph out, 60mph 58 actual & on satnav 58

soon i will be changing my steels to the 19s with 275 30 19 rear tyres (which are same radius as a 235 45 17 tyre & a 205 65 15 tyre)

i will check the 60mph in 4th tomorrow
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Zippy2012

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #16 on: 11 May 2012, 12:59:28 »

Hi woody 60mph in 4th gear pulling 3100rpm & road angel confurms 60mph also Cheers & thanks  :y
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zirk

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #17 on: 11 May 2012, 14:45:31 »

Most of the 3.0, 3.2 Autos and Manuals that I had pull around 2600 rpm at 70 MPH, in 5th or top for Auto, so diff ratio difference between the two boxes keep the rpm / mph the same.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #18 on: 11 May 2012, 15:18:41 »

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GmasterT

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #19 on: 11 May 2012, 16:11:55 »

Remember the FAQ section. ;)

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90497.0

Yeah saw that, just need a boffin to list which cars came with which ratios now :)
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Zippy2012

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #20 on: 12 May 2012, 11:03:07 »

Remember the FAQ section. ;)

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90497.0

Yeah saw that, just need a boffin to list which cars came with which ratios now :)

Yep thats what i was going off in the beginning when i 1st asked the question 2mths ago in a diff post,
i know what ratio/rpms i want to try acheve by fitting a 3.45 with my manual box, as car isnt standard 3.0v6 manual
My mv6 plod is fitted with a 2.5td wide ratio gearbox (not a standard manual 3.0) & spec says 3.90.1 LSD (3.70.1 standard) which in both cases isnt a standard omega spec (gearbox/diff) i want to know if it will be ok fitting a 3.45.1?? & trying to find out what cars & what years have what spec ratios... there is a new F/L Spec sheet but no pre/mfl specs listed???

So what woody has asked is we know i have a 3.90 diff but is that the figure it should be when we calculate the RPM/TYRE/SPEED should =3.90.1???? working out my wide ratio gearbox specs???
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2woody

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #21 on: 13 May 2012, 23:15:58 »

Fraid you'll have to wait till Tuesday when I'm back home !
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Zippy2012

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #22 on: 14 May 2012, 14:42:03 »

Fraid you'll have to wait till Tuesday when I'm back home !

no probs mate when you have time  :y
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Kevin Wood

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #23 on: 14 May 2012, 15:38:02 »


Yep thats what i was going off in the beginning when i 1st asked the question 2mths ago in a diff post,
i know what ratio/rpms i want to try acheve by fitting a 3.45 with my manual box, as car isnt standard 3.0v6 manual
My mv6 plod is fitted with a 2.5td wide ratio gearbox (not a standard manual 3.0) & spec says 3.90.1 LSD (3.70.1 standard) which in both cases isnt a standard omega spec (gearbox/diff) i want to know if it will be ok fitting a 3.45.1?? & trying to find out what cars & what years have what spec ratios... there is a new F/L Spec sheet but no pre/mfl specs listed???

So what woody has asked is we know i have a 3.90 diff but is that the figure it should be when we calculate the RPM/TYRE/SPEED should =3.90.1???? working out my wide ratio gearbox specs???

I didn't know the 2.5td gearbox would fit on a V6? I thought it had a BMW pattern bellhousing that's not interchangeable?

Anyway, that aside, it sounds like your unknown is the gearbox ratios, then? If you know you have a 3.90 diff and want to replace it with a 3.45 diff, drive the car noting the speed at revs in each gear at various speeds of interest.

You know that swapping the 3.9 with a 3.45 will multiply the revs at any particular speed by (3.45/3.9) = 0.885, so you can work out how it will affect the gearing.

So, your 3000 RPM at 70MPH will change to about 2650.

Most gearboxes are 1:1 in 4th gear so 2woody's test will work regardless of the gearbox.
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2woody

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #24 on: 17 May 2012, 12:32:08 »

LONG POST ALERT....

right - I've had chance to work on this a bit. There's lots of stuff in here, so I've tried to put it into sections. I'll also be using some figures, mostly mph per 1000 revs in 4th and 5th gears.

In summary, you have the closer ratio gearbox fitted, with a 3.7 diff. You have the wrong size tyres, giving you higher revs when cruising than a standard car.

Wide-ratio gearbox.

As far as I can tell, there's only two different ratio sets for Omega B :-

ratio set A is 3.95 2.19 1.39 1.00 0.84. Because of the low 5th gear, we'll call this the close-ratio set. It was fitted to V6 models and has the higher torque capacity (R28)

ratio set B is 3.81 2.11 1.34 1.00 0.76. This we'll call the wide-ratio set. It was fitted to everything else, including 2.5 TD. It has the lower torque capacity (r25)

It is not possible to build a wide-ratio R28. The higher-capacity parts are the gears themselves, so transferring them into another box would achieve nothing.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the lower capacity box. You're not going to break it, even if towing in the LAke District. I have one in my track car and it's been there for years. You could conceivably use a wide-ratio box in a V6.

What diff have I got ?

Ok - so here's the figures for your car.

With a 3.9 diff, you'll be getting 18.44 mph for every 1000 revs in 4th (calculated)
With a 3.7 diff, you'll be getting 19.44 mph for every 1000 revs in 4th (calculated)

you've measured 19.35, so it's a safe bet that you're currently equipped with a 3.7.

What gearbox have I got ?

Assuming that you've got a 3.7 diff.....

the close-ratio gearbox gives you 23.15 mph for every 1000 revs in 5th
the wide-ratio gearbox gives you 25.58 mph for every 1000 revs in 5th.

from your precious post, you have 3800 on the clock at 90 in 5th, so you have the close-ratio box fitted.

Tyres.

first thing to say is theat you've already got the wrong tyres on. 225/60 x 15 gives you 834 wheel revs per mile, whereas you need 817 ideally. If you corrected this, then you're up at 19.8 mph per 1000 revs (4th), which is already 100 revs less on the clock at 60 mph.

Your previous tyres ( the 245/40 x 17 ) were even further away from where you need to be at 842 wrpm. Swapping from the 245 to your current tyre has lowered your cruising revs ( by 50 revs at 60 mph )

your "ideal" tyre size of 275/30 x 19 ( which I wouldn't recommend for a number of reasons ) is a bit too far the other way, at 808 wrpm, which would give you 20 mph per 1000 revs (4th). But at least this would further lower your cruising revs by another 50.

Ok - so where to go from here.....

assuming that you correct your tyre problems, you can either change the diff to a 3.45 unit or fit the wide-ratio gearbox. Here's what you'd achieve :-

Your car with the correct tyres :-
60mph in 4th is 3022 rpm
80mph in 5th is 3385 rpm

Your car with the correct tyres and a 3.45 diff :-
60mph in 4th is 2819 rpm
80mph in 5th is 3155 rpm

your car with the correct tyres and the wide-ratio transmission :-
60mph in 4th is 3022 rpm
80mph in 5th is 3063 rpm

your car with the correct tyres, a 3.45 diff and the wide-ratio transmission :-

60mph in 4th is 2819 rpm
80mph in 5th is 2856 rpm

hope this all helps.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2012, 12:35:00 by 2woody »
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Omegatoy

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #25 on: 17 May 2012, 21:49:25 »

BRILLIANT EXPLANATION AS ALWAYS WOODY!! :y

2woody

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #26 on: 17 May 2012, 23:01:38 »

why thank-a-you !
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serek

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #27 on: 17 May 2012, 23:21:47 »

very good explanation for R25 and R28 :y :y but what about R30 fitted to 2.2 dti and 3.2 V6 manual (police only) ? whats different on this box compere to other 2 boxes

thanks
« Last Edit: 17 May 2012, 23:23:43 by serek »
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Zippy2012

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #28 on: 18 May 2012, 00:14:54 »

ahh.......

ummm.........

ok now im really confused... when my car left factory its spec sheet says 3.90.1 LSD & manual gearbox W/R spec fitted with steel wheels & 205 65 15 tyres

Looking under car its all corroded & bushes bolts havent ever been touched.. ive read threw the full service police print out it lists everything its ever had done to it over its 151k police miles in the years they thrashed it even down to the brandnew engine at 144k & 1 new clutch at the same mileage, the next keeper was an elderly gent in his late 70s & trust me he never had anything done to it not even a car wash!! only a few things to get it threw each mot, then i bought it, in nov with 160k on clock he did 9k in 7/8 years..
No way he had the diff replaced or the gearbox?? everything on this car was fked! seized & well worn out, i.e exhaust had more holes than a cullender & more rust than the titanic! rear shocks had both sheared at the top corroded, tyres were 185 70 15s cracked & very crazed, all 4 discs corroded lipped & badly pitted rear shoes worn to metal, front caliperes seized up & pads cracked, bodywork flatter than an ironing board! interior! dont even go there! 2huge dogs need i say more!
 
Anyway this now doesnt make sence??
it came with a 3.90.1 lsd & W/R gearbox 2.5td spec
i realised the 5th gear=speeds were on the 245 tyres,
the last one of 60mph=4th gear @3100rpm are on the 225/60/15s

im hoping to fit the 19s this weekend & also replace 2front wishbones/droplinks/front struts all fked since i bought it also  >:(
what rear tyre size on a 19 would be best??
using the onlinetyre calculator below
http://www.kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator
if i put in the original size on left of either 205/65/15 or 235/45/17 mv6 size & 275/30/19 on right i get a calculation of 0.0% or 0.7% saying that the 275 will match the 205 standard tyre??

so what your saying is a 3.45 diff will help lower my crusing rpms  :y
All i need to find out now which was the main aim of this post was...

what diffs are fitted into what pre/mfl omegas & will saloon fit estate?? Cheers woody for your time to work it out much apreciated  :y :y

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Kevin Wood

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Re: quick query 3.45diff
« Reply #29 on: 18 May 2012, 00:26:15 »

For a 3.45 diff you're looking for a 2.5TD or 2.2DTI. None of the petrol models would have that ratio.
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