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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Andy B on 20 August 2020, 23:44:23

Title: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 20 August 2020, 23:44:23
Returning home on the M1 southbound and close to joining the M62, I'm doing 55mph in cruise, as I have been for a number of miles before hand, 2 lanes bear left, I'm in the nearside lane, I'd seen a HGV (some kind of rigid tipper wagon) behind me pull out as we'd approached the turn off. As he was alongside me I was aware he was indicating left but assumed he was indicating from bearing left  :-\ ..... next thing he sounded his horn  ???  ???
He wanted me to slow down to allow him to pass me to take the next junction that we were almost at! He was the one that had JUST pulled out to overtake me. I just carried on at my set 55 mph while he braked to pull in behind me with much horn blaring!!
Tosser!
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: 78bex on 21 August 2020, 00:59:52
I`d have turned up my stereo & stuck to 55 MPH ..... "King of the road" etc   8)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: johnnydog on 21 August 2020, 01:00:14
I've had similar experiences on motorways whilst towing a caravan. Been in lane 1 travelling between 55 and 60 depending on the terrain, where on a downhill gradient, a HGV artic that was matching my speed on the flat behind me, decides to pull out for a slow overtake, but is unable to complete it before the bottom of the descent. The artic is then alongside my car and caravan, but the speed of the artic then drops, but the left indicator comes on, and the driver then expects me to either accelerate or reduce speed to allow him to move back into lane 1.
I appreciate the HGV driver wants to maintain their momentum, but doing it at the risk of not being able to safely complete the overtake before the end of the descent, therefore putting myself in a potentially dangerous situation, and then having the cheek to blast their horn as if it's my fault, using their weight and mass to try and intimidate me into letting them back in - to repeat Andy....tossers.
And I got my HGV Class 1 in the 80's....
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: 78bex on 21 August 2020, 01:37:20
Think I`ll buy a 2CV  ::) 55 mph all the time & become a hippy  :-X now when i turn up my stereo.........   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SDGsQyBIbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SDGsQyBIbc)

Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 10:49:50
I ALWAYS set my cruise control at the limit plus 10%. Never have this problem then.

Best thing to do when alongside trucks in traffic, if possible, is to make sure that the back of your vehicle is level with the front axle. That way, the front of your car should be visible from their windscreen. Overhead door mirrors aren't to be relied on as most drivers don't adjust them properly and it's possible to lose the side of a dark car in the shadow... so either drop right back or keep aheadas appropriate.

I don't give shit drivers an inch, but I don't sit around and wait to get squished either. That applies whether I am driving a car or an artic.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Nick W on 21 August 2020, 11:09:27
I tend to hold back until I can completely pass a truck


When pulling back in, don't change lane until you can see the entire truck in both mirrors. Thinking about it, that applies to any vehicle.


If you're concentrating on what you're doing, it's perfectly possible to not touch the brakes on a motorway until reach the end of the exit slip road. If you're having to brake often on a motorway then you're driving too fast, and/or not paying enough attention to the other traffic.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Rangie on 21 August 2020, 11:17:17
Just treat all other drivers as complete idiots that's what I was taught in the LAS & read the road all around you, a lot don't look any further than their bonnet.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 12:08:05
I tend to hold back until I can completely pass a truck


When pulling back in, don't change lane until you can see the entire truck in both mirrors. Thinking about it, that applies to any vehicle.


If you're concentrating on what you're doing, it's perfectly possible to not touch the brakes on a motorway until reach the end of the exit slip road. If you're having to brake often on a motorway then you're driving too fast, and/or not paying enough attention to the other traffic.
Exactly. But obviously it's always someone else's fault ::)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 12:13:21
I ALWAYS set my cruise control at the limit plus 10%. Never have this problem then.

Best thing to do when alongside trucks in traffic, if possible, is to make sure that the back of your vehicle is level with the front axle. That way, the front of your car should be visible from their windscreen. Overhead door mirrors aren't to be relied on as most drivers don't adjust them properly and it's possible to lose the side of a dark car in the shadow... so either drop right back or keep aheadas appropriate.

I don't give shit drivers an inch, but I don't sit around and wait to get squished either. That applies whether I am driving a car or an artic.

But this HGV driver had come up from behind me, started an overtake way way too late ..... he didn't need mirrors to see me, he just needed to look out of his windscreen. Typical of what a lot of waggon drivers seem to do & drive with his foot to the floor no matter what the rest of the traffic is doing.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 12:22:22
Tipper drivers are a specialist breed of arsehole.

Also, don't forget, that 55 on your speedometer is about 51 on theirs... So if they're doing 56 (as per their limiter :-X) then that's almost 10% differential which is the bare minimum required to overtake safely.

This is why trucks always seem to be flitting in and out of lanes.

Car drivers would do well to be taught this point.

By travelling at an indicated 60 (or more) then you shouldn't have any issues with lorries.  ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Rangie on 21 August 2020, 12:42:50
Got to say when I am towing the caravan the majority of HGV drivers are excellent if I overtake they normally flash to inform me that I am clear to pull back into lane & I do the same for them if I am overtaken, usually thanks is acknowledged by L/R indicator flash. Calm & courteous as I was taught pays dividends.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 12:46:08
Got to say when I am towing the caravan the majority of HGV drivers are excellent if I overtake they normally flash to inform me that I am clear to pull back into lane & I do the same for them if I am overtaken, usually thanks is acknowledged by L/R indicator flash. Calm & courteous as I was taught pays dividends.

I wasn't flashed in once going or coming back home though one HGV driver did acknowledge me flashing him in  :y
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 12:50:42
....

Also, don't forget, that 55 on your speedometer is about 51 on theirs... So if they're doing 56 (as per their limiter :-X) then that's almost 10% differential which is the bare minimum required to overtake safely.
 ......

and being that much high off the ground he'd have been able to see that there was no chance at all of achieving what he was attempting.

I used to tow at more like 60 (plus  ::)) with my previous caravan, but this one is the best part of 2 tonne, attached to the car by a teeny 50mm ball ..... I'm happier at 55  ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 12:51:04
At least one of them was awake then :D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 12:52:42
....

Also, don't forget, that 55 on your speedometer is about 51 on theirs... So if they're doing 56 (as per their limiter :-X) then that's almost 10% differential which is the bare minimum required to overtake safely.
 ......

and being that much high off the ground he'd have been able to see that there was no chance at all of achieving what he was attempting.

I used to tow at more like 60 (plus  ::)) with my previous caravan, but this one is the best part of 2 tonne, attached to the car by a teeny 50mm ball ..... I'm happier at 55  ;)
I understand that, but just be mindful that an indicated 55 is just the wrong speed... Possibly be better dropping back to 50 and let everything pass by easily ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Rangie on 21 August 2020, 13:01:17
....

Also, don't forget, that 55 on your speedometer is about 51 on theirs... So if they're doing 56 (as per their limiter :-X) then that's almost 10% differential which is the bare minimum required to overtake safely.
 ......

and being that much high off the ground he'd have been able to see that there was no chance at all of achieving what he was attempting.

I used to tow at more like 60 (plus  ::)) with my previous caravan, but this one is the best part of 2 tonne, attached to the car by a teeny 50mm ball ..... I'm happier at 55  ;)


Me too 55 is fine, have seen some towing at 70 plus & the aftermath ! Definitely not for me.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 14:30:25
....

Also, don't forget, that 55 on your speedometer is about 51 on theirs... So if they're doing 56 (as per their limiter :-X) then that's almost 10% differential which is the bare minimum required to overtake safely.
 ......

and being that much high off the ground he'd have been able to see that there was no chance at all of achieving what he was attempting.

I used to tow at more like 60 (plus  ::)) with my previous caravan, but this one is the best part of 2 tonne, attached to the car by a teeny 50mm ball ..... I'm happier at 55  ;)
I understand that, but just be mindful that an indicated 55 is just the wrong speed... Possibly be better dropping back to 50 and let everything pass by easily ;)

It's the right speed for me  :) :)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 14:35:48
Ok, emphasis on the indicated bit.

The indicated speed of cars is apples to the pears of indicated speed of trucks... Similar, but not the same.

If you want to sit at a speed that puts you in constant conflict with trucks, that's entirely up to you, but you can't have it both ways.  ;)

Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 15:30:25
Ok, emphasis on the indicated bit.

The indicated speed of cars is apples to the pears of indicated speed of trucks... Similar, but not the same.

If you want to sit at a speed that puts you in constant conflict with trucks, that's entirely up to you, but you can't have it both ways.  ;)

I don't see your point. What ever speed I was at, he attempted an overtake that he was never in month of Sundays ever going to mange but then wanted me to slow down to allow him to complete it .....
tosser!
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 15:37:08
Not arguing with you on that point :y

As I said, tipper drivers are a special inbreed.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: New POD on 21 August 2020, 16:18:06
Recently I've been sitting in the passenger seat of my Very careful wife, on journeys down the M6 to Uttoxeter. 
Now I'm not saying her lane discipline is always correct, but if you are in a 50 zone, in lane 2 of 4, doing 48, passing a truck doing less, there is absolutely no need for another truck to get as close as possible (so close you couldn't get another car in the gap)
Unfortunately my wife won't take my advice, which is a) use the cruise control and set it a real 52 Mph or b) if someone gets too close, take your foot off the accelerator, and slow down a little.

There's no excuse for intimidation. Not when the victim, has nowhere to go, (other than over the speed limit).

There's also no need, to undertake on a round about when it's clear that the driver of the car you are undertaking is either differing or confused about which junction they are about to take. And then wonder why that driver cut you up on attempting to take the exit she was correctly indicating for, when she joined the roundabout in front of you.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 16:33:10
An indicated 48 is alot nearer 44... Ahead of traffic that could be doing an actual 50...

Accelerating away from a situation is as defensive as slowing down, and less likely to get you killed.

Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: New POD on 21 August 2020, 16:34:54
A real 48. An indicated 53.
Comparison, between Sat Nav and Astra gauge.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 16:39:40
Fair enough :y

Worth driving at the limit, (if appropriate), especially if below NSL as that reduces the number of impatient arseholes behind you... They've nowt to get pissy about when they realise that you're doing the limit ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 21 August 2020, 16:45:34
I was always taught that speed "limits" are exactly that .. a "limit" not to be exceeded... not a "target" to be maintained.

Drive at the speed you feel comfortable with, not what some other idiot tries to force you to do.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 21 August 2020, 16:51:17
Tipper pilots, a total breed unto themselves.  Only good thing to learn from them, If they don't slow down thro roadworks, cameras don't work, so it's flat to mat, keep er lit, Whooosh.  Another tip in roadworks if in car stay in lane 1 or 3,.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 16:55:27
I was always taught that speed "limits" are exactly that .. a "limit" not to be exceeded... not a "target" to be maintained.

Drive at the speed you feel comfortable with, not what some other idiot tries to force you to do.
This is true, in which case slow your speed enough to clearly define the speed diffential. Either get ahead of the menace or drop back from it, but for your own safety don't sit with it, even if you're technically right.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Nick W on 21 August 2020, 17:02:10
I was always taught that speed "limits" are exactly that .. a "limit" not to be exceeded... not a "target" to be maintained.

Drive at the speed you feel comfortable with, not what some other idiot tries to force you to do.
This is true, in which case slow your speed enough to clearly define the speed diffential. Either get ahead of the menace or drop back from it, but for your own safety don't sit with it, even if you're technically right.


Exactly. Not only is it safer, but it's much less frustrating and easier to do.


On that note, if you're constantly frustrated/annoyed/surprised by what the other traffic is doing YOU are the problem, not them.

Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 August 2020, 17:19:57
I must have missed the bit in the highway code that entitles HGV drivers to be driving on the limiter 100% of the time without ever lifting off or showing regard for the traffic around them. :-X
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 17:21:47
I must have missed the bit in the highway code that entitles HGV drivers to be driving on the limiter 100% of the time without ever lifting off or showing regard for the traffic around them. :-X
You didn't, but equally I would wager that you don't actively sit at 50-55 anywhere near them either ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 17:23:46
I must have missed the bit in the highway code that entitles HGV drivers to be driving on the limiter 100% of the time without ever lifting off or showing regard for the traffic around them. :-X
likewise .....  ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 17:28:34
I must have missed the bit in the highway code that entitles HGV drivers to be driving on the limiter 100% of the time without ever lifting off or showing regard for the traffic around them. :-X
You didn't, but equally I would wager that you don't actively sit at 50-55 anywhere near them either ;)
but as above, sometimes the limit is 50, but HGV's don't often take much notice.

Or when the motorway is only doing 60/65 at rush hour & all 3 or 4 lanes are full, it's not uncommon to find said HGV right up your harris as POD says. Try going west towards Rochdale on the M62 (not that you'd want to go east  ::) ;)) at rush hour and you'll see what I mean  :y
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 17:46:28
Oh FFS!

DG is absolutely right.  If you want to travel at an indicated 55mph, you are at the prime speed where HGV's will be quicker on the flat and slower on even a slight incline.  If you feel so compelled to put yourself in this position, then kudos for the massive plums you have.  I certainly wouldn't want to be playing a game of 'ME or YOU' with a 44t Artic.  As advised, adjust your speed up or down by a couple of MPH and everyone will be happy.

Just because you feel like you've taken the moral highground, doesn't mean you are right or wrong.  Just accept that not everyone is of the same mindset.

Seperate yourself from the problem, don't be a contributor to the problem!
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 17:50:14
Found the bit of motorway   :) ... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.7207725,-1.2892537,3a,75y,197.82h,69.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slIIuG84nzyOdSSneDhDaDw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-GB..

I was in the left lane .... the tipper was going to Hull and started his overtake on the uphill!
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 18:01:07
Oh FFS!

DG is absolutely right.  If you want to travel at an indicated 55mph, you are at the prime speed where HGV's will be quicker on the flat and slower on even a slight incline.  If you feel so compelled to put yourself in this position, then kudos for the massive plums you have.  I certainly wouldn't want to be playing a game of 'ME or YOU' with a 44t Artic.  As advised, adjust your speed up or down by a couple of MPH and everyone will be happy.

Just because you feel like you've taken the moral highground, doesn't mean you are right or wrong.  Just accept that not everyone is of the same mindset.

Seperate yourself from the problem, don't be a contributor to the problem!

Get f&&&ed! ..... the motorway was relatively quiet. The HGV started his overtake as we left the M1, I saw him do so. Was I supposed to read his mind as to where he was going? The first hint I got of where he might want to go was when we were over the top of the M1 and I saw his left hand indicator flashing .... I wasn't really sure whether that was still from leaving the M1 or not. He sounded his horn when he was alongside me by which time were virtually at his junction. Why the f*** would I be expected to slow right down to let him across?
I give HGV drivers a lot of slack. I'm the first to allow them out at a junction around town and give them room to make their turn, but I'm not being bullied by some knobhead who think he should drive to his limiter & everyone else around him  should get out of his way!
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 18:07:45
Oh FFS!

DG is absolutely right.  If you want to travel at an indicated 55mph, you are at the prime speed where HGV's will be quicker on the flat and slower on even a slight incline.  If you feel so compelled to put yourself in this position, then kudos for the massive plums you have.  I certainly wouldn't want to be playing a game of 'ME or YOU' with a 44t Artic.  As advised, adjust your speed up or down by a couple of MPH and everyone will be happy.

Just because you feel like you've taken the moral highground, doesn't mean you are right or wrong.  Just accept that not everyone is of the same mindset.

Seperate yourself from the problem, don't be a contributor to the problem!

Get f&&&ed! ..... the motorway was relatively quiet. The HGV started his overtake as we left the M1, I saw him do so. Was I supposed to read his mind as to where he was going? The first hint I got of where he might want to go was when we were over the top of the M1 and I saw his left hand indicator flashing .... I wasn't really sure whether that was still from leaving the M1 or not. He sounded his horn when he was alongside me by which time were virtually at his junction. Why the f*** would I be expected to slow right down to let him across?
I give HGV drivers a lot of slack. I'm the first to allow them out at a junction around town and give them room to make their turn, but I'm not being bullied by some knobhead who think he should drive to his limiter & everyone else around him  should get out of his way!

Hey now.  I completely agree that, in this instance, he was in the wrong.  The point I was reinforcing, is simple...... at a constant INDICATED 55mph, you are putting yourself into a 'zone' where HGV's will find you slightly irritating.  Drive how you want, it's not my problem, and I very much doubt our vehicular paths will ever cross.  He was a knob, and tbh, I think you didn't help the scenario which panned out.  As already said, don't allow yourself to be in this position....... you can control you, you cant control them.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 18:25:19
I know what you mean, every busy dual carriageway/motorway is the same.

And it's no more ok for them to drive like that than it is for any car driver to expect everyone else to get out of the way when they want to do 85+ everywhere.

The trouble is, that everyone believes that they are exclusively right whilst thee rest of the world is completely and utterly wrong. Ridiculous 'adaptive' speed limits, smart motorways and that most drivers are complete morons once on a motorway all serve to compound the problem. Removing limiters and the NSL would actually allow the network to work better, but neither will happen.

Personally speaking, I will actively undertake a slower vehicle, regardless of what I am driving, but only to pass them within the limit and only to avoid moving three lanes and back (not the same as passing everthing at any cost).

To answer Kevin's point, I believe there is a section of the highway code that suggests removing yourself from a situation that you find intimidating.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 18:32:20
Found it...

Rule 125. BE CONSIDERATE ;)

Oddly, it comes after Rule 124. ADAPT YOUR DRIVING.  ::)

But to be clear, tipper drivers are all Cants. I have yet to encounter one who demonstrates otherwise.
Locally, it's not uncommon to see them turn left from the right hand lane of a dual carriage way. At a roundabout. Into a single carriageway.

Ocado drivers are tipper drivers without HGV licences, but that's a whole different rant :D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 18:49:06
...
 and tbh, I think you didn't help the scenario which panned out.   ....

You keep putting this on my shoulders. As said, I'd seen him, it's not I'd only just noticed him as he was alongside me. I saw his left indicators flashing, what would you have thought they meant? I'm moving left or I've forgotten to cancel them from a little earlier? He then sounded his horn! So what? I carried on as I'd been doing for miles beforehand.
We've all oppsed up at some stage on a motorway by either lack of concentration, or completely misjudging someone else's speed and been in the wrong lane for a junction, but you take it on the chin & take the next exit, not expect someone else to slow right down to let you leave late.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 18:52:06
...
Personally speaking, I will actively undertake a slower vehicle, regardless of what I am driving, but only to pass them within the limit and only to avoid moving three lanes and back (not the same as passing everthing at any cost).
 ......
I've done the same many many times. Usually in the evening/night when there's sod all on the road & someone wants to drive at 69.9 mph in lane 2 of 3 or lane 3 of 4
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 19:32:17
...
 and tbh, I think you didn't help the scenario which panned out.   ....

You keep putting this on my shoulders.

If that's how you've interpreted my replies, then allow me to make this even more clear.

HE WAS A KNOB BUT YOU DIDN'T HELP THE SITUATION!

Keep driving at an indicated 55mph (as you said earlier in the thread, that is the speed you are 'happy' at).  Sadly, you'll find yourself in this position time and time again.  Your actions contriubted to the situation.... simply moving forward at 2mph faster or slower and the chances of this occurance are almost nil.



I also hold my hands up to legally passing a slower moving vehicle in an outer lane.  It's quite a safe manouver if you have a clear hard-shoulder to rely on if dick-head suddenly decides to pull into lane 1.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 21 August 2020, 19:35:57
As some folk seem to try and justify the way HGV drivers are seen to behave .. could they please, somehow, justify this appalling driving ??

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlgxq14ar569zjo/M5%20HGV.avi?dl=0

Note, there is a slight glitch between the sections at the end of the first minute, which is shown for context. Please ignore the date/time as the dashcam satnav had a timing fault (now fixed)...speed readout is correct however.... this was back in June, filmed from the Audi

I await comments with some interest ......
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 19:41:51
That needs handing over to a Traffic Commissioner.

As the Driver and Operator and Transport Manager all need to be called in to explain themselves.

Nothing more to say, but unless his brakes failed and he's running downhill fully loaded, there's no legitimate reason for that.

Apologies if that's not the argument you wanted, but that's pretty much indefensible  ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 19:44:39
As some folk seem to try and justify the way HGV drivers are seen to behave .. could they please, somehow, justify this appalling driving ??

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlgxq14ar569zjo/M5%20HGV.avi?dl=0

Note, there is a slight glitch between the sections at the end of the first minute, which is shown for context. Please ignore the date/time as the dashcam satnav had a timing fault (now fixed)... this was back in June, filmed from the Audi

I await comments with some interest ......

No excuse for being in the 3rd lane of a 3lane highway, unless a major failure of brakes.

No justification here.  Clearly found his/her way around the limiter.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 19:45:04
Credit where it's due, at least he indicated :D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 19:47:30
...  Sadly, you'll find yourself in this position time and time again.  Your actions contriubted to the situation.... simply moving forward at 2mph faster or slower and the chances of this occurance are almost nil. ....

Never had a problem at this speed, indicated or actual. Have you looked at the junction? He'd decided he was going passed me as we left the M1 but didn't have the speed as we went up hill over the motorway ..... am I supposed to be psychic?
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 19:49:05
Thats the Clevedon/Nailsea exit on the M5.

Long stretch of steep downhill from Avonmouth.  I'd estimate, if the 60MPH is accurate he is doing a nudge over 80.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 21 August 2020, 19:50:59
That needs handing over to a Traffic Commissioner.

As the Driver and Operator and Transport Manager all need to be called in to explain themselves.

Nothing more to say, but unless his brakes failed and he's running downhill fully loaded, there's no legitimate reason for that.

Apologies if that's not the argument you wanted, but that's pretty mucb indefensible  ;)

My opinion as well, just didn't expect such quick agreement !!

It went to the police who were extremely interested, but couldn't use it as evidence due to the date/time error, there was also quite a bit more as he went past me 4 times in all, he was very slow uphill and very fast downhill..... ... I was informed in a follow up call that the "inspectors" had shown great interest and had "intercepted" the vehicle.... and the company was being prosecuted for "illegal modifications, failing to keep adequate records, and operating at excessive weights" .. the driver being done for "falsifying of tachometer records, overweight driving.... so something was done at least.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 19:54:10
...  Sadly, you'll find yourself in this position time and time again.  Your actions contriubted to the situation.... simply moving forward at 2mph faster or slower and the chances of this occurance are almost nil. ....

Never had a problem at this speed, indicated or actual. Have you looked at the junction? He'd decided he was going passed me as we left the M1 but didn't have the speed as we went up hill over the motorway ..... am I supposed to be psychic?

Andy, I'm not going to repeat myself over and over.  He isn't psychic either.  He was probably pissed off that you were holding him up. 

I get paid from my door, to my door.  If I've got nothing to do of an evening, on my way home, I'll sit in lane 1 at 62mph (indicated) which is 59mph on SatNav (iphone WAZE).  I wouldn't consider anything less, as the HGV's get mightily pissed off.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 21 August 2020, 20:03:17
As some folk seem to try and justify the way HGV drivers are seen to behave .. could they please, somehow, justify this appalling driving ??

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlgxq14ar569zjo/M5%20HGV.avi?dl=0

Note, there is a slight glitch between the sections at the end of the first minute, which is shown for context. Please ignore the date/time as the dashcam satnav had a timing fault (now fixed)...speed readout is correct however.... this was back in June, filmed from the Audi

I await comments with some interest ......


 Get out the dam way, coming by.
 Bet if that was a Lambo or other penis extender, you wouldnt bother, or be saying how nice it sounded, but being a big smelly truck,  how dare he come by me... And yes I would :).. Just as well you've never driven the A75 when the boats tipping out...
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 20:09:18
Fundamentally Andy, yes. I would suggest a read of the two HC rules I pointed out.  ;)

The point that's trying to be made, and irrespective of right or wrong as that's been clearly established, is that upon noticing the left indicator you should have taken deliberate steps to pull ahead in order to minimise the chance of being punted off the motorway. Fortunately, he looked before moving over, otherwise you would be both squished and correct.

In order to drive defensively you need to anticipate other peoples 'misjudgements' and be prepared to mitigate them.

In that situation, I would have accelerated slightly to get ahead of a potential problem and possibly been prepared to head towards Hull if the situation had escalated.

If that's not something you were prepared to do, then perhaps you need to consider why not... If the positions had been reversed but same vehicles, what would you have done? Be honest with yourself as you answer that...

If someone else choses to be an arse that's on them, but if the response is to also be an arse because you are technically correct, then that's all on you. Sorry, but that's how it is.



Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 20:10:56
Nige, I meant to say that the police really couldn't care less unless you reported whilst it was happening, but the Traffic Commissioners have teeth and aren't scared to use them, as appears to be the case here :y
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 August 2020, 20:13:19
As some folk seem to try and justify the way HGV drivers are seen to behave .. could they please, somehow, justify this appalling driving ??

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlgxq14ar569zjo/M5%20HGV.avi?dl=0

Note, there is a slight glitch between the sections at the end of the first minute, which is shown for context. Please ignore the date/time as the dashcam satnav had a timing fault (now fixed)...speed readout is correct however.... this was back in June, filmed from the Audi

I await comments with some interest ......


 Get out the dam way, coming by.
 Bet if that was a Lambo or other penis extender, you wouldnt bother, or be saying how nice it sounded, but being a big smelly truck,  how dare he come by me... And yes I would :).. Just as well you've never driven the A75 when the boats tipping out...

It's just that that thing has got rather more kinetic energy (= potential to wipe innocent people out) when it all goes wrong than a lightweight sports car, hence the reduced speed limit that applies, the speed limiter, the extra driver licensing requirements, tachograph, etc. etc. which the genius behind the wheel decided didn't apply to him. ::)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 20:19:11
Indeed, and that's why the legal outcome seems to be pretty comprehensive  ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 20:22:12

It's just that that thing has got rather more kinetic energy (= potential to wipe innocent people out) when it all goes wrong than a lightweight sports car, hence the reduced speed limit that applies, the speed limiter, the extra driver licensing requirements, tachograph, etc. etc. which the genius behind the wheel decided didn't apply to him. ::)

Video quality is pants, but i'd guess it's an owner-driver, not a driver who works for a company with a tranport manager breathing down his neck.

Any driver who displayed 80mph on a tacho would be sacked without question.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 21 August 2020, 20:24:41

It's just that that thing has got rather more kinetic energy (= potential to wipe innocent people out) when it all goes wrong than a lightweight sports car, hence the reduced speed limit that applies, the speed limiter, the extra driver licensing requirements, tachograph, etc. etc. which the genius behind the wheel decided didn't apply to him. ::)

Video quality is pants, but i'd guess it's an owner-driver, not a driver who works for a company with a tranport manager breathing down his neck.

Any driver who displayed 80mph on a tacho would be sacked without question.


 How little you know
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 20:26:55

It's just that that thing has got rather more kinetic energy (= potential to wipe innocent people out) when it all goes wrong than a lightweight sports car, hence the reduced speed limit that applies, the speed limiter, the extra driver licensing requirements, tachograph, etc. etc. which the genius behind the wheel decided didn't apply to him. ::)

Video quality is pants, but i'd guess it's an owner-driver, not a driver who works for a company with a tranport manager breathing down his neck.

Any driver who displayed 80mph on a tacho would be sacked without question.


 How little you know

i'm guessing here, but are you suggesting that a transport manager would encourage you to drive beyond your legal obligation 'to get the job done?
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 20:33:38
Actual speed is probably 75 (easily achieved with a bit of weight and a decent downhill stretch) and whilst a modest overspeed infringement isn't a big deal, using lane 3 to do it is, and the investigation has obviously highlighted other offences.

Company disciplinary action depends on the company, but generally, they're more concerned about timekeeping (turning up to work on time) and repeated accidents than the occasional overspeed.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 21 August 2020, 20:35:02

It's just that that thing has got rather more kinetic energy (= potential to wipe innocent people out) when it all goes wrong than a lightweight sports car, hence the reduced speed limit that applies, the speed limiter, the extra driver licensing requirements, tachograph, etc. etc. which the genius behind the wheel decided didn't apply to him. ::)

Video quality is pants, but i'd guess it's an owner-driver, not a driver who works for a company with a tranport manager breathing down his neck.

Any driver who displayed 80mph on a tacho would be sacked without question.


 How little you know

i'm guessing here, but are you suggesting that a transport manager would encourage you to drive beyond your legal obligation 'to get the job done?

 I'm referring to you assumption that speed is on a tachograph Card ... For all to see.  As for speeding it depends on who you work for, lots of variables,   Let's just say, we don't all drive for tossco, or the large multinational plobbers..
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 21 August 2020, 20:36:42
Actual speed is probably 75 (easily achieved with a bit of weight and a decent downhill stretch) and whilst a modest overspeed infringement isn't a big deal, using lane 3 to do it is, and the investigation has obviously highlighted other offences.

Company disciplinary action depends on the company, but generally, they're more concerned about timekeeping (turning up to work on time) and repeated accidents than the occasional overspeed.


 Isn't an offence, in any way shape or form... Don't believe what your CPC trainer told you,
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Nick W on 21 August 2020, 20:44:56

It's just that that thing has got rather more kinetic energy (= potential to wipe innocent people out) when it all goes wrong than a lightweight sports car, hence the reduced speed limit that applies, the speed limiter, the extra driver licensing requirements, tachograph, etc. etc. which the genius behind the wheel decided didn't apply to him. ::)


It also takes a lot more stopping than just lifting your foot off a petrol engined car that's 1/20 of the weight. It's why the truck 'suddenly'**** appears  to be about to drive into your boot, because sudden, heavy brake application isn't just undesirable on a truck, but is downright dangerous. Slowing it down needs to be done intelligently, and using up some of the safety gap is often the best option.


**** suddenly means the same as he came from nowhere :I wasn't paying enough attention to what was going on around me.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 20:49:04
Actual speed is probably 75 (easily achieved with a bit of weight and a decent downhill stretch) and whilst a modest overspeed infringement isn't a big deal, using lane 3 to do it is, and the investigation has obviously highlighted other offences.

Company disciplinary action depends on the company, but generally, they're more concerned about timekeeping (turning up to work on time) and repeated accidents than the occasional overspeed.


 Isn't an offence, in any way shape or form... Don't believe what your CPC trainer told you,
I know ;)

Repeated minor blips are one thing, but repeated occurrences over distances of several miles can highlight company and driver trends.

There are circumstances that may prevent you from repeatedly braking down a long descent, or having misjudged the angle of a slope left it too late to change down, especially if you have a single range box, leaving you no choice but to let the engine hold you back in the gear that your in, M40 north from Wycombe being a good example.

However, showing significant blocks of time spent over 60mph (the actual HGV motorway limit) is asking to be called in to the office.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 20:50:38

 I'm referring to you assumption that speed is on a tachograph Card ... For all to see.  As for speeding it depends on who you work for, lots of variables,   Let's just say, we don't all drive for tossco, or the large multinational plobbers..

Digi Tacho's.  I haven't seen a tacho card for years.  Just a drivers paper 'timesheet' and a digital tacho.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 20:54:15
....
  He isn't psychic either. 
He didn't need to be .... I was sat in the nearside lane

  He was probably pissed off that you were holding him up. 

 ....
I don't see how I held him up ... he was trying overtaking me. but then wanted me to slow down.

I've been held up behind many an ignorant HGV driver getting slower & slower in lane 2 up hill
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 20:59:48
....
  He isn't psychic either. 
He didn't need to be .... I was sat in the nearside lane

  He was probably pissed off that you were holding him up. 

 ....
I don't see how I held him up ... he was trying overtaking me. but then wanted me to slow down.

I've been held up behind many an ignorant HGV driver getting slower & slower in lane 2 up hill

If he made an overtake, he was going faster than you!  That's not hard to grasp, or is it????.  He was beside you when he wanted the lane to the left of you.  That was an error on his part.

I also get pissed off with HGV's who take 4 miles to pass another (A34 springs to mind from the M3 until Oxford).
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 21:01:27
....

 is that upon noticing the left indicator you should have taken deliberate steps to pull ahead in order to minimise the chance of being punted off the motorway.
How fast do you think I could have sped away? We were all but at his junction when I saw his indicator. He braked firmly to pull over behind me and up the sliproad.


Fortunately, he looked before moving over, otherwise you would be both squished and correct.
 ...
He knew I was there .... he'd just come up behind/alongside me.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 21:05:52
....
  He isn't psychic either. 
He didn't need to be .... I was sat in the nearside lane

  He was probably pissed off that you were holding him up. 

 ....
I don't see how I held him up ... he was trying overtaking me. but then wanted me to slow down.

I've been held up behind many an ignorant HGV driver getting slower & slower in lane 2 up hill

If he made an overtake, he was going faster than you!  That's not hard to grasp, or is it????.  He was beside you when he wanted the lane to the left of you.  That was an error on his part.

I also get pissed off with HGV's who take 4 miles to pass another (A34 springs to mind from the M3 until Oxford).

Don't patronise!  >:( To quote you .... at risk of repeating myself ..... he'd started his overtake as we left the M1 where it was flat, the flyover the M1 was uphill  ... he was running out of steam as he was trying to pass. Given a bit more road & he'd have overtaken me.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 21 August 2020, 21:06:05
Andy, they all do it, all the time ... just try and use the Heathrow slip off the M4.. its nearly a mile long but every van and truck hurtle past all the cars on the slip and then force their way in at the last minute, endangering both those on the slip road and those actually driving the M4 who suddenly have a stationary vehicle in lane 1... it's called selfishness and lack of consideration.... or "just being a dick"....
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 21:09:43
....
  He isn't psychic either. 
He didn't need to be .... I was sat in the nearside lane

  He was probably pissed off that you were holding him up. 

 ....
I don't see how I held him up ... he was trying overtaking me. but then wanted me to slow down.

I've been held up behind many an ignorant HGV driver getting slower & slower in lane 2 up hill

If he made an overtake, he was going faster than you!  That's not hard to grasp, or is it????.  He was beside you when he wanted the lane to the left of you.  That was an error on his part.

I also get pissed off with HGV's who take 4 miles to pass another (A34 springs to mind from the M3 until Oxford).

Don't patronise!  >:( To quote you .... at risk of repeating myself ..... he'd started his overtake as we left the M1 where it was flat, the flyover the M1 was uphill  ... he was running out of steam as he was trying to pass. Given a bit more road & he'd have overtaken me.

Dont patronise?  Jesus H Christ.  So, if you were doing 56mph, or lets push it to the fricking limit, 57mph!  WooooooHAaaaaaa, imagine just doing 2mph more????  Crazy Shit!

You would never have been in the prediciment, you would not have posted like a child who had his ass slapped.

Read everthing you have posted on this thread.  Then come back and say you are happy doing an indicated 55mph.

Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 21 August 2020, 21:11:30
Actual speed is probably 75 (easily achieved with a bit of weight and a decent downhill stretch) and whilst a modest overspeed infringement isn't a big deal, using lane 3 to do it is, and the investigation has obviously highlighted other offences.

Company disciplinary action depends on the company, but generally, they're more concerned about timekeeping (turning up to work on time) and repeated accidents than the occasional overspeed.


 Isn't an offence, in any way shape or form... Don't believe what your CPC trainer told you,
I know ;)

Repeated minor blips are one thing, but repeated occurrences over distances of several miles can highlight company and driver trends.

There are circumstances that may prevent you from repeatedly braking down a long descent, or having misjudged the angle of a slope left it too late to change down, especially if you have a single range box, leaving you no choice but to let the engine hold you back in the gear that your in, M40 north from Wycombe being a good example.

However, showing significant blocks of time spent over 60mph (the actual HGV motorway limit) is asking to be called in to the office.


 Depends were you work, and how they Annalise the download,  as said big plobber company, going over 54.1mpj gets you a warning, as does ticking over for 31 seconds,,, management, bolloks,
 If Dvsa see continues overspeed for miles, they will ask for limiter check, the Dvsa accept downhill overspeed when they download,...

If you work for a proper firm, overspeed dosent even figure, so when coming downhill, just let the autobraking keep it in check,  mines set at 100, and it just bobs downhill no problems, until a Muppet starts braking because he gone over 54.1 for 2 seconds,...

 Watching that video,  tipper. Is downill, just letting it go, and took third lane, because of people plobbing along in lane 2... Just some dash cam warrior didn't like it.... Also to many "expert's" ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 21 August 2020, 21:13:19
Andy, they all do it, all the time ... just try and use the Heathrow slip off the M4.. its nearly a mile long but every van and truck hurtle past all the cars on the slip and then force their way in at the last minute, endangering both those on the slip road and those actually driving the M4 who suddenly have a stationary vehicle in lane 1... it's called selfishness and lack of consideration.... or "just being a dick"....

I take that exit several times a week..... at the minute it's fine.

The problem isn't with the people who exit late (I do that) it's with the idiots who brake hard in lane 2, because they see a queue on the 1.5mile exit slip.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 21:17:55
....

 is that upon noticing the left indicator you should have taken deliberate steps to pull ahead in order to minimise the chance of being punted off the motorway.
How fast do you think I could have sped away? We were all but at his junction when I saw his indicator. He braked firmly to pull over behind me and up the sliproad.


Fortunately, he looked before moving over, otherwise you would be both squished and correct.
 ...
He knew I was there .... he'd just come up behind/alongside me.
A firm prod of the throttle would have sufficed  ::)

You presume that he was aware of you and your intentions. The last thing he might have seen as his line of sight passed your back end may have been a left indicator from joining the slip road.

Still not disputing the fact that he should have been in the left lane all the way to the Hull slip, but you need to accept a degree of responsibility for your choices that led to you being in that predicament. You chose to maintain your speed and get wound up by the situation instead of reacting differently as the situation unfolded.

Like I asked. What would YOU have done if you were driving to Hull instead and had moved to the right to pass the slower vehicle up the off ramp only to find yourself blocked from your exit?
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 21 August 2020, 21:20:12
Actual speed is probably 75 (easily achieved with a bit of weight and a decent downhill stretch) and whilst a modest overspeed infringement isn't a big deal, using lane 3 to do it is, and the investigation has obviously highlighted other offences.

Company disciplinary action depends on the company, but generally, they're more concerned about timekeeping (turning up to work on time) and repeated accidents than the occasional overspeed.


 Isn't an offence, in any way shape or form... Don't believe what your CPC trainer told you,
I know ;)

Repeated minor blips are one thing, but repeated occurrences over distances of several miles can highlight company and driver trends.

There are circumstances that may prevent you from repeatedly braking down a long descent, or having misjudged the angle of a slope left it too late to change down, especially if you have a single range box, leaving you no choice but to let the engine hold you back in the gear that your in, M40 north from Wycombe being a good example.

However, showing significant blocks of time spent over 60mph (the actual HGV motorway limit) is asking to be called in to the office.


 Depends were you work, and how they Annalise the download,  as said big plobber company, going over 54.1mpj gets you a warning, as does ticking over for 31 seconds,,, management, bolloks,
 If Dvsa see continues overspeed for miles, they will ask for limiter check, the Dvsa accept downhill overspeed when they download,...

If you work for a proper firm, overspeed dosent even figure, so when coming downhill, just let the autobraking keep it in check,  mines set at 100, and it just bobs downhill no problems, until a Muppet starts braking because he gone over 54.1 for 2 seconds,...

 Watching that video,  tipper. Is downill, just letting it go, and took third lane, because of people plobbing along in lane 2... Just some dash cam warrior didn't like it.... Also to many "expert's" ;)

Actually I was travelling at the legal maximum of 60 mph consistently.. as the speed readout shows .. unlike the guy you defend for doing wll over 70 in a heavy goods vehicle ... so if we had needed to brake for an emergency .. who would have stopped and who would have caused a major incident ??

methinks you are the misguided one....
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 21:38:32
...
 What would YOU have done if you were driving to Hull instead and had moved to the right to pass the slower vehicle up the off ramp only to find yourself blocked from your exit?

Sucked it up & gone to the next junction or do as he eventually did & braked to go behind
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 21:43:44
....
 that led to you being in that predicament. You chose to maintain your speed and get wound up by the situation instead of reacting differently as the situation unfolded. 


I wasn't in a predicament ... I was in the right lane for where I wanted to go .... I had been since leaving the M1

I wasn't wound up. He blasted his horn .. I did likewise .... I was just relaying my experience of a knob head HGV driver on the forum
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 21:48:02
...
 What would YOU have done if you were driving to Hull instead and had moved to the right to pass the slower vehicle up the off ramp only to find yourself blocked from your exit?

Sucked it up & gone to the next junction or do as he eventually did & braked to go behind
Exactly :y
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 21:59:20
Returning home on the M1 southbound and close to joining the M62, I'm doing 55mph in cruise, as I have been for a number of miles before hand, 2 lanes bear left, I'm in the nearside lane, I'd seen a HGV (some kind of rigid tipper wagon) behind me pull out as we'd approached the turn off. As he was alongside me I was aware he was indicating left but assumed he was indicating from bearing left  :-\ ..... next thing he sounded his horn  ???  ???
He wanted me to slow down to allow him to pass me to take the next junction that we were almost at! He was the one that had JUST pulled out to overtake me. I just carried on at my set 55 mph while he braked to pull in behind me with much horn blaring!!
Tosser!
Effectively, your reaction to seeing him indicate and sound his horn was to carry on regardless. That's something that you may want to look at :D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 21 August 2020, 22:13:38
.....
Effectively, your reaction to seeing him indicate and sound his horn was to carry on regardless. That's something that you may want to look at :D

when he was already alongside me, just what would you have expected me to do? Slam on with almost 2 tonne on the towbar? His junction was all but on the other side of me
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 22:35:15
Now it transpires that you were towing... a prod of the throttle may have been a moot point then  :-\

Someone else made a misjudgement and you carried on with your day... Meanwhile, in other news :D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 21 August 2020, 22:38:52
Now it transpires that you were towing... a prod of the throttle may have been a moot point then  :-\

Someone else made a misjudgement and you carried on with your day... Meanwhile, in other news :D

May I direct the honourable gentleman to posts number #11, #12 and #15 ... :)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 22:44:48
Now it transpires that you were towing... a prod of the throttle may have been a moot point then  :-\

Someone else made a misjudgement and you carried on with your day... Meanwhile, in other news :D

May I direct the honourable gentleman to posts number #11, #12 and #15 ... :)
I read those posts as written, not once did Andy say " I was towing my caravan when a nasty tipper driver tooted at me because he was in the wrong lane..." ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 21 August 2020, 22:47:42
Now it transpires that you were towing... a prod of the throttle may have been a moot point then  :-\

Someone else made a misjudgement and you carried on with your day... Meanwhile, in other news :D

May I direct the honourable gentleman to posts number #11, #12 and #15 ... :)
I read those posts as written, not once did Andy say " I was towing my caravan when a nasty tipper driver tooted at me because he was in the wrong lane..." ;)

post #12 ...

"I used to tow at more like 60 (plus  ::)) with my previous caravan, but this one is the best part of 2 tonne, attached to the car by a teeny 50mm ball ..... I'm happier at 55"

Others, including myself,  picked up straight away that he was towing ...... perhaps you speak a different form of the English Language ?????   :)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 22:54:22
 :P Johnnydog brought up caravans, so I overlooked it as a typical OOF tangent :D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: YZ250 on 21 August 2020, 23:03:17
What a fascinating thread.  :)

So, I'm driving along minding my own business when a truck swings out for an overtake that he's clearly going to struggle with, especially as he knows that he's going to need to turn left in about a quarter of a mile.  ::)
He can't get past me due to the gradient in the road so tries to intimidate me into getting out of his way. And this is my fault because..........  ::)

Well apparently it's my fault because I'm doing 55mph, which as we all know is just below a trucks 'zone'. So if we know it's a trucks 'zone' I'd assume the truck driver knew that as well, which makes his move even more idiotic.
A lot of the replies have got to be a wind-up surely. And yes, I assumed Andy had a van on the back as I can't see him setting his cruise to 55mph when flying solo on a motorway.  ;)

As I said fascinating thread.  ;D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 21 August 2020, 23:07:03
What a fascinating thread.  :)

So, I'm driving along minding my own business when a truck swings out for an overtake that he's clearly going to struggle with, especially as he knows that he's going to need to turn left in about a quarter of a mile.  ::)
He can't get past me due to the gradient in the road so tries to intimidate me into getting out of his way. And this is my fault because..........  ::)

Well apparently it's my fault because I'm doing 55mph, which as we all know is just below a trucks 'zone'. So if we know it's a trucks 'zone' I'd assume the truck driver knew that as well, which makes his move even more idiotic.
A lot of the replies have got to be a wind-up surely. And yes, I assumed Andy had a van on the back as I can't see him setting his cruise to 55mph when flying solo on a motorway.  ;)

As I said fascinating thread.  ;D

One would hope that posts #49 & #69 are a wind up .......  but I have my doubts ...  :(
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 21 August 2020, 23:13:54
What a fascinating thread.  :)

So, I'm driving along minding my own business when a truck swings out for an overtake that he's clearly going to struggle with, especially as he knows that he's going to need to turn left in about a quarter of a mile.  ::)
He can't get past me due to the gradient in the road so tries to intimidate me into getting out of his way. And this is my fault because..........  ::)

Well apparently it's my fault because I'm doing 55mph, which as we all know is just below a trucks 'zone'. So if we know it's a trucks 'zone' I'd assume the truck driver knew that as well, which makes his move even more idiotic.
A lot of the replies have got to be a wind-up surely. And yes, I assumed Andy had a van on the back as I can't see him setting his cruise to 55mph when flying solo on a motorway.  ;)

As I said fascinating thread.  ;D
Nobody is disputing that the tipper driver was completely at fault :D

Towing or not, sitting at 55 is asking to get caught up with trucks, which is the one thing that most people are uncomfortable with on motorways, which is why most of us choose to drive slightly (ahem) faster ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Raeturbo on 22 August 2020, 00:55:54
Agree with the Doc here, a few mph doesn’t mean much to and fro for lighter vehicles, but HGV stuff takes longer for both especially if fully laden, and I would add it is a work for them, I.E a job, and I think that is how and why these Professional drivers can get annoyed, if they can go at the speed allowed then why can’t the smaller stuff and non professional folk keep up? Everybody is allowed to go a bit slower than allowed if in the correct lane and of course if 55mph indicated is that speed, then fair enough, but as said that is under the speed that these HGV drivers are earning their living at (key workers even maybe?) Mind you it’s swings and roundabouts, as many a time we’re kept behind waiting for some off these fks to get around someone. Not taking sides but if somebody wants or is able to go faster than me and makes a show of it, I would let them go, however it hasn’t happened yet..... :P





Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 22 August 2020, 09:01:12
What a fascinating thread.  :)

So, I'm driving along minding my own business when a truck swings out for an overtake that he's clearly going to struggle with, especially as he knows that he's going to need to turn left in about a quarter of a mile.  ::)
He can't get past me due to the gradient in the road so tries to intimidate me into getting out of his way. And this is my fault because..........  ::)

Well apparently it's my fault because I'm doing 55mph, which as we all know is just below a trucks 'zone'. So if we know it's a trucks 'zone' I'd assume the truck driver knew that as well, which makes his move even more idiotic.
A lot of the replies have got to be a wind-up surely. And yes, I assumed Andy had a van on the back as I can't see him setting his cruise to 55mph when flying solo on a motorway.  ;)

As I said fascinating thread.  ;D
Nobody is disputing that the tipper driver was completely at fault :D

Towing or not, sitting at 55 is asking to get caught up with trucks, which is the one thing that most people are uncomfortable with on motorways, which is why most of us choose to drive slightly (ahem) faster ;)
[/quote[/highlight]]

 The Tipper in the video going downhill,  he's just getting on.

 The Tipper driver that started this thread I would expect no less, from tippers,  going for the overtake 200yrds before exit, going up outside or inside and pushing in, just generally bad driving.

 If you don't want to be near big smelly lorries then as DG said, don't sit at 54-55mph, sit at 60mph, 

 Also remember, The truck is working, not bumbling along on Holiday,  Your average motorist might think that it's only a minute here a minute there, but drivers have limited hours so those minutes add up, , 
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: YZ250 on 22 August 2020, 09:34:18
Agree with the Doc here, a few mph doesn’t mean much to and fro for lighter vehicles, but HGV stuff takes longer .....

But the original post was in regard to a wagon pulling out to attempt an overtake when he knew he would be turning left immediately after the overtake. That should be the end of the story but people have become fixated on the speed, which should be irrelevant. Would people have the same view if Andy had been driving a truck. After all, biggriffin has already said that some trucks are restricted to 54mph, so should they lift that restriction to avoid annoying truckers that can do 56mph.  :-\  This is not aimed at you personally Rae, your post is just a convenient one to reply to.  :y

And for what it's worth, I towed large family caravans for over twenty five years, and I did travel at just above the trucks governed speed to keep out of their way but, and it's a big but, 55mph is a more comfortable/safer speed to tow at. I used to flout this regularly until my 'M5 motorway incident' but after that I cogged it back a bit.  :)
Just a few mph more can make a difference.  :y

We're never going to all agree on this but from what I'm reading, a truck drivers time sheet is worked out at the absolute 'limit' of the vehicle, which just can't be logical.  :-\
Anyway, I don't tow anymore so you truckers and caravanners are ALL in my way.  ;D  As for Nigel's 3rd lane truck, a bit disappointing not to hear a YEEE HAAA as it went by.  ;D



Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 22 August 2020, 09:48:15
 ;D

One might also ask, now more information has come to light :D, why Andy was doing 55 into a 50... :P

But I digress, the tipper driver was being true to form, and is a very naughty boy ;D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: YZ250 on 22 August 2020, 09:51:10
........
If you don't want to be near big smelly lorries then as DG said, don't sit at 54-55mph, sit at 60mph, 

 Also remember, The truck is working, not bumbling along on Holiday,  Your average motorist might think that it's only a minute here a minute there, but drivers have limited hours so those minutes add up, ,

During my years of towing a caravan, and chatting to people on site, there are a surprising amount of truckers that are also caravanners.  :y  During such chats I bought up this very subject, and they were the ones that admitted that because their daily drive involved travelling at governed speeds they were quite happy to do the same with the van in tow.
So, there you go, even truckers do it to fellow truckers when they've got a van on the back.  :y

As said though, not really relevant to this post, as we all agree that the Tipper was an arse, which is all Andy was trying to convey in the original post.  :y
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: YZ250 on 22 August 2020, 09:55:06
;D

One might also ask, now more information has come to light :D, why Andy was doing 55 into a 50... :P

But I digress, the tipper driver was being true to form, and is a very naughty boy ;D

Quite right, bloody maniac. Some people have no regard for speed limits.  ;D :y  He's gone from going too slow to going too fast now.  ;D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 22 August 2020, 10:05:55
Winter tyre thread anyone?
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Nick W on 22 August 2020, 10:17:53

During my years of towing a caravan, and chatting to people on site, there are a surprising amount of truckers that are also caravanners.  :y  During such chats I bought up this very subject, and they were the ones that admitted that because their daily drive involved travelling at governed speeds they were quite happy to do the same with the van in tow.



having spent 15 years driving restricted vehicles, I often find myself travelling at 55mph in the inside lane. But even a 1500 automatic Avenger has more acceleration than the truck trying to do 56(downhill, badly calibrated limiter, who cares why),  so making a small speed adjustment to stay safe and comfortable is the sensible thing to do.




Being obstinate and stubborn are my family traits, but none of us are stupid enough to argue with 20 tons at 50mph to 'prove' we're right like cutting off the tipper driver. I've given way to impatient arseholes so that I have enough notice of their impending crash to avoid it, rather than being part of it.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Rangie on 22 August 2020, 10:18:15
I'm off to Cornwall tomorrow with the Caravan , so if any tipper driver cuts me up god help them ! Shotgun in the footwell 😄
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 22 August 2020, 10:52:51
;D

One might also ask, now more information has come to light :D, why Andy was doing 55 into a 50... :P

But I digress, the tipper driver was being true to form, and is a very naughty boy ;D

What 50 limit? It was  a motorway  .....
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: YZ250 on 22 August 2020, 10:59:13
;D

One might also ask, now more information has come to light :D, why Andy was doing 55 into a 50... :P

But I digress, the tipper driver was being true to form, and is a very naughty boy ;D

What 50 limit? It was  a motorway  .....

I think Al is referring to the stretch of road just before the Hull slip road, where the truck wanted to force you out of the way.  :y
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 22 August 2020, 11:02:22

Being obstinate and stubborn are my family traits, but none of us are stupid enough to argue with 20 tons at 50mph to 'prove' we're right like cutting off the tipper driver. I've given way to impatient arseholes so that I have enough notice of their impending crash to avoid it, rather than being part of it.

I wasn't trying to prove anything. The fact he wanted to turn left when he was at the side of me was the the very last thing I expected he wanted to do.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 22 August 2020, 11:03:15
;D

One might also ask, now more information has come to light :D, why Andy was doing 55 into a 50... :P

But I digress, the tipper driver was being true to form, and is a very naughty boy ;D

What 50 limit? It was  a motorway  .....

I think Al is referring to the stretch of road just before the Hull slip road, where the truck wanted to force you out of the way.  :y
Still motorway rules ....
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 22 August 2020, 11:10:00
Apart from the 50 sign in the hedge :D

About a hundred yards up the slip road...

Also, looking back along the motorway, you obviously joined the slip road, and he has been gaining as he also left the motorway and has moved to the right hand land as it opened up, believing that he was going to pass you before the bend. Unfortunately he failed to appreciate the fact that you had cruise control activated and with a significantly higher power to weight ratio, your speed didn't change and he couldn't quite get past you...
He probably also had a car up his arse, which won't have helped his mood any ;D

He should have dropped back in behind you once clear of the motorway, but didn't... So still 'wrong' but you may have compounded the situation somewhat.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 22 August 2020, 11:30:38
What a fascinating thread.  :)

So, I'm driving along minding my own business when a truck swings out for an overtake that he's clearly going to struggle with, especially as he knows that he's going to need to turn left in about a quarter of a mile.  ::)
He can't get past me due to the gradient in the road so tries to intimidate me into getting out of his way. And this is my fault because..........  ::)

Well apparently it's my fault because I'm doing 55mph, which as we all know is just below a trucks 'zone'. So if we know it's a trucks 'zone' I'd assume the truck driver knew that as well, which makes his move even more idiotic.
A lot of the replies have got to be a wind-up surely. And yes, I assumed Andy had a van on the back as I can't see him setting his cruise to 55mph when flying solo on a motorway.  ;)

As I said fascinating thread.  ;D
Nobody is disputing that the tipper driver was completely at fault :D

Towing or not, sitting at 55 is asking to get caught up with trucks, which is the one thing that most people are uncomfortable with on motorways, which is why most of us choose to drive slightly (ahem) faster ;)
[/quote[/highlight]]

 The Tipper in the video going downhill,  he's just getting on.

 The Tipper driver that started this thread I would expect no less, from tippers,  going for the overtake 200yrds before exit, going up outside or inside and pushing in, just generally bad driving.

 If you don't want to be near big smelly lorries then as DG said, don't sit at 54-55mph, sit at 60mph,

 Also remember, The truck is working, not bumbling along on Holiday,  Your average motorist might think that it's only a minute here a minute there, but drivers have limited hours so those minutes add up, ,

I knew someone would try and justify that stupidity ...seems I was right ...

Having held both LGV and PCV licenses (to give them their correct names) I know how "difficult" it can be to stop such vehicles in a hurry - OK .. things have changed in the last 10 years, technology probably makes it less hazardous. Also, having been involved with far "bigger and faster" vehicles for many years (max laden weight 175,000lbs) I actually know, understand, and taught, all about inertia, response times, and braking distances, including the most basic of all facts .. e=mv2 .....

I'm impressed you know so much about my journey when you were not even there !!

Luckily for me, and for many, many other road users, the "authorities" appear to have agreed with me regarding this "professional" driver, and took action.

If you think such behaviour is acceptable .. up to you ... but if I see it I will report it, simply in an attempt to save lives .. nowt to do with being a ... what did you call me .. ah yes ...  "dash cam warrior" .... I guess the easiest way to divert attention from the true facts is to simply make disparaging comments.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Entwood on 22 August 2020, 11:54:36
I find it interesting that, although the majority seem to agree with Andy that the LGV driver who tried to force him to "modify" his driving was a complete "dick", there is still a huge amount of time and effort being spent it trying to "prove" that Andy did something ... anything ... wrong .. ...

Is it not possible to simply accept that the LGV driver in both his, and my, incidents are complete idiots ???

All this just seems to consolidate my opinion that the idea of LGV drivers being the "gentlemen of the road" died many, many years ago ... now they are simply out to do what they want, when they want, with complete disregard for others.... and the law.... and all other LGV drivers actively support them

Not my idea of "professonalism" at all.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 22 August 2020, 12:17:02
I think LGV,s should be banned from the right hand lane of all dual carriageways / motorways, end of.
Its bus drivers who give me the most problems though. I find many of them pig ignorant on the roads.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 22 August 2020, 12:51:28
What a fascinating thread.  :)

So, I'm driving along minding my own business when a truck swings out for an overtake that he's clearly going to struggle with, especially as he knows that he's going to need to turn left in about a quarter of a mile.  ::)
He can't get past me due to the gradient in the road so tries to intimidate me into getting out of his way. And this is my fault because..........  ::)

Well apparently it's my fault because I'm doing 55mph, which as we all know is just below a trucks 'zone'. So if we know it's a trucks 'zone' I'd assume the truck driver knew that as well, which makes his move even more idiotic.
A lot of the replies have got to be a wind-up surely. And yes, I assumed Andy had a van on the back as I can't see him setting his cruise to 55mph when flying solo on a motorway.  ;)

As I said fascinating thread.  ;D
Nobody is disputing that the tipper driver was completely at fault :D

Towing or not, sitting at 55 is asking to get caught up with trucks, which is the one thing that most people are uncomfortable with on motorways, which is why most of us choose to drive slightly (ahem) faster ;)
[/quote[/highlight]]

 The Tipper in the video going downhill,  he's just getting on.

 The Tipper driver that started this thread I would expect no less, from tippers,  going for the overtake 200yrds before exit, going up outside or inside and pushing in, just generally bad driving.

 If you don't want to be near big smelly lorries then as DG said, don't sit at 54-55mph, sit at 60mph,

 Also remember, The truck is working, not bumbling along on Holiday,  Your average motorist might think that it's only a minute here a minute there, but drivers have limited hours so those minutes add up, ,

I knew someone would try and justify that stupidity ...seems I was right ...

Having held both LGV and PCV licenses (to give them their correct names) I know how "difficult" it can be to stop such vehicles in a hurry - OK .. things have changed in the last 10 years, technology probably makes it less hazardous. Also, having been involved with far "bigger and faster" vehicles for many years (max laden weight 175,000lbs) I actually know, understand, and taught, all about inertia, response times, and braking distances, including the most basic of all facts .. e=mv2 .....

I'm impressed you know so much about my journey when you were not even there !!

Luckily for me, and for many, many other road users, the "authorities" appear to have agreed with me regarding this "professional" driver, and took action.

If you think such behaviour is acceptable .. up to you ... but if I see it I will report it, simply in an attempt to save lives .. nowt to do with being a ... what did you call me .. ah yes ...  "dash cam warrior" .... I guess the easiest way to divert attention from the true facts is to simply make disparaging comments.

 You may find that the Tipper firm were already on the Dvsa hit list, Dosent take much, a few MOT failures, couple of bad inspection, and roadside checks, and Locals moaning about vehicles leaving an operating centre,, Then they start, and your video just helped them, yes bad operators need to be brought to task,..

I referred back to something I did say, if it had been a  Lamborghini or Ferrari, or V8 on song doing 100mph, would you take the same stance, as that's breaking the law too.. You cannot pick little bits of the law which suit your agenda.  Speeding is Speeding weather it be a Truck or a car..
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Boatboy on 27 August 2020, 21:14:16
Puts me in mind of a nautical ditty

This is the story of John O’Day
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,
but he’s just as dead as if he were wrong.


Yes, on the facts as presented the tipper driver was an impatient idiot. We’ve all been guilty of misjudging a situation, but how we recover from it is the difference between idiot and muppet.

The crowd I currently drive for are one of those ‘compliance first’ outfits.  We’re limited to 52/53 to save a bob or the planet, not sure which, and anything regularly over that attracts the stern word. I tend to set at 48/49 on the basis that anything and everything coming past gets out of my ‘zone’ quicker. Not long ago but on a different contract I was one of the regulars on the early morning wacky races home from Cairnryan on the infamous A75; definitely no place for setting a speed any lower than paddy truck max plus 1. Not saying it’s right, just the way it is.

As for knights of the road? I think that went out the window when the availability of a never ending supply of Eastern European license holders turned truck drivers into a commodity to be bought at the lowest possible cost.  There’s still some of us that try, but after a typical days 8 hours of being cut up, slowed down, baulked and generally having my chain yanked it gets a bit hard.

Steve

Steve





Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 27 August 2020, 22:18:04
I have been in a car in the middle of the long line of trucks from the Cairnryan ferry on the A75. Had trouble keeping up with some of the Irish trucks.  ;D
Speed limiters - never heard of them.  ::)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: 78bex on 27 August 2020, 23:31:55
I think LGV,s should be banned from the right hand lane of all dual carriageways / motorways, end of.
Its bus drivers who give me the most problems though. I find many of them pig ignorant on the roads.

an old Dashcam clip of mine, but you get the idea  ::)

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljL-s2xQNE8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljL-s2xQNE8)

Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 27 August 2020, 23:49:14
The Dutch truck overtaking (just) isn't doing anything wrong. Although a motorway it is only two lanes, so being in lane 2 is perfectly legal as it would be on a dual carriageway.

And you had no business to be overtaking either of them as you clearly intended to exit at the imminent junction.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 27 August 2020, 23:50:50
Not illegal but it should be.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Nick W on 28 August 2020, 00:00:09
A truck full of stuff is a better use of the road space than a car with four people in it. And most of the cars on the motorway have fewer than that.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 28 August 2020, 00:03:00
Not illegal but it should be.
Perhaps, but the insinuation was that someone was doing something wrong...

And it illustrates the point that those who most often cry foul about such things are usually annoyed that they've not been able to do the selfish thing that they were trying to do... ie car driver gets pissy because a truck has the audacity to move to lane two to pass a slower vehicle and prevents said car driver from passing both trucks in lane 2 only to have to cut back across lane 1 to the slip road.

If the truck hadn't pulled out, would we have seen a video about 'a nasty person flashed their lights and nearly rear ended me as I carved them up because I nearly overshot my exit... '? Probably not ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: 78bex on 28 August 2020, 00:23:24
Not illegal but it should be.

Agree
I`ll try & find one of my bike cam vids, it took me the best part of 5 miles to weave thru traffic on the M27 to get to the head of a rolling road block caused by 2 professional drivers.
Nether of them willing to give way to the other  :-\
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 28 August 2020, 01:13:55
Not illegal but it should be.

Agree
I`ll try & find one of my bike cam vids, it took me the best part of 5 miles to weave thru traffic on the M27 to get to the head of a rolling road block caused by 2 professional drivers.
Nether of them willing to give way to the other  :-\
Re read that post and ask yourself what makes you so special...  :-X

(Whilst you're at it, consider that both drivers may not be as au fait with the nuances of our Highway Code as British drivers... ((78Bex lives about 20 minutes from Portsmouth Harbour, so a significant percentage of the trucks heading to/from are foreign)) ).

Last time I drove along it, the M27 is at least three lanes along its entire length (except the M3 and M275 junctions) and currently has a 50mph limit from Fareham to the M3. So on that stretch two trucks side by side are irrelevant.

Driving isn't a race, but rather a means of getting from point A to point B. And whilst you live in a highly populated area, I would politely suggest that slow journeys are the result of traffic volume and not trucks. It is theoretically possible for me to get from my house in rural Sussex to the heart of the New Forest (including the entire length of the M27 :-X) in 45 minutes, an hour and a quarter is a realistic clear run and a poorly timed reality of traffic and road works can see nearly 2 hours. It is what it is.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 28 August 2020, 06:51:28
Im sure all of us have been in lane 2 or 3, part of a very long line of vehicles, stuck behind a truck which spends miles trying to overtake another truck which is travelling at 0.? mph slower than their truck is capable off.
Its a "my dick is a bit longer than yours" scenario between truck drivers which is ludicrously selfish and should have been outlawed with severe punishments a long time ago.
I worked with Truck drivers for 20 years, Ive heard all the excuses and I dont believe any of them.
Its all about this "Kings of the road" bullshit that many of them like to buy into.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Nick W on 28 August 2020, 09:36:36
Im sure all of us have been in lane 2 or 3, part of a very long line of vehicles, stuck behind a truck which spends miles trying to overtake another truck which is travelling at 0.? mph slower than their truck is capable off.
Its a "my dick is a bit longer than yours" scenario between truck drivers which is ludicrously selfish and should have been outlawed with severe punishments a long time ago.
I worked with Truck drivers for 20 years, I've heard all the excuses and I don't believe any of them.
Its all about this "Kings of the road" bullshit that many of them like to buy into.


The unspoken side of that, your side, is "get the opps out of my way, I'm in a CAR".
Put both together, and you get the reason why I've often posted that many drivers are temprementally unsuited to being in charge of a vehicle.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Viral_Jim on 28 August 2020, 10:01:25
The unspoken side of that, your side, is "get the opps out of my way, I'm in a CAR".
Put both together, and you get the reason why I've often posted that many drivers are temprementally unsuited to being in charge of a vehicle.

Its a bit more nuanced than that though isn't it?

My 'favourite' stretch of road for this is the M/A42 just north of Birmingham. Two lanes each way for 25 miles all the way up to the M1. I don't think I've ever done that journey at more than 55.9x mph due to two Knights of the Road duking it out to see who's willy is the longest. This includes at least two occasions of being nearly put into the central reservation because I didn't slam on the anchors to let one out into lane 2 when I was alongside them. ::)

But, the net result is that 20 or 30 car and van drivers have their journeys delayed so that one or two HGV drivers can get their 0.05mph advantage, until the gradient changes and they lose it again. Pretty much the definition of selfish wouldn't you say?

Incidentally, there are a number of signs along that length of road that instruct no overtaking for HGVs between 7am & 7pm, which may as well be written in Chinese for all the difference they make.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 28 August 2020, 10:14:16
Being able to drive faster than the next person is a luxury, not a right.

Speeds are set by traffic flow and volume, not signs.

And if ANYONE thinks that they would drive any differently than any truck driver, then perhaps they should get an appropriate licence and put their money where there mouth is.

The reality of life is that you probably do one courteous thing and one really obnoxious thing every time you get in the car.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 28 August 2020, 10:41:01
On my last point things you do will range from letting a woman with a push chair cross the road or let someone out into a queue or give a cyclist a bit more space; and at the opposite end, run through a light just as it switches from amber to red when you could easily have stopped or pulled out at a junction when perhaps you shouldn't have and fluffed a gear change or simply been more important than the person in front (and the next person in front etc).

There's twice as many vehicles on the road compared to when I passed my test, probably, so there's even less chance of getting to the front of the queue, so why waste time and energy trying?

You, and you alone have control over your behaviour and how you react to the world around you, so rather than drive around being pissed off with everyone else take a step back and get on with your day.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 28 August 2020, 19:49:14
Im sure all of us have been in lane 2 or 3, part of a very long line of vehicles, stuck behind a truck which spends miles trying to overtake another truck which is travelling at 0.? mph slower than their truck is capable off.
Its a "my dick is a bit longer than yours" scenario between truck drivers which is ludicrously selfish and should have been outlawed with severe punishments a long time ago.
I worked with Truck drivers for 20 years, I've heard all the excuses and I don't believe any of them.
Its all about this "Kings of the road" bullshit that many of them like to buy into.


The unspoken side of that, your side, is "get the opps out of my way, I'm in a CAR".
Put both together, and you get the reason why I've often posted that many drivers are temprementally unsuited to being in charge of a vehicle.

Cobblers. The unspoken side is "your truck is limited to 56mph, my car and the other 150 cars behind you arent. What right do you have to force us to do so just because your hoping your truck is 0.1mph faster than the one youve spent the last three miles trying to get past. There is no reasonable or logical argument in favour of it.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 28 August 2020, 20:51:00
You presume that it's always a truck at the front of the queue.

Someone doing 65 in lane 3 will screw up a perfectly good four lane motorway  :-X
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Raeturbo on 28 August 2020, 22:05:29
Oh yes that’s pretty often these days😟
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Nick W on 28 August 2020, 22:47:27
You presume that it's always a truck at the front of the queue.

Someone doing 65 in lane 3 will screw up a perfectly good four lane motorway  :-X


And it only takes one fool trying to do 85 in heavy traffic to cause hours of delays.


Perhaps trucks should be the only traffic on dual carriageways(etc) during normal working hours? Say 08:00 until 17:30.


They are professionals at work after all....
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 28 August 2020, 23:02:08
As I said earlier, I spent 20 years working with truck drivers, and although some of them were great, professional isnt a word I would use to describe most of them.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 28 August 2020, 23:03:22
You presume that it's always a truck at the front of the queue.

Someone doing 65 in lane 3 will screw up a perfectly good four lane motorway  :-X

I dont presume that. When its a truck the truck is pretty visible.  ::)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Broomies Mate on 28 August 2020, 23:23:35
You presume that it's always a truck at the front of the queue.

Someone doing 65 in lane 3 will screw up a perfectly good four lane motorway  :-X


And it only takes one fool trying to do 85 in heavy traffic to cause hours of delays.


Perhaps trucks should be the only traffic on dual carriageways(etc) during normal working hours? Say 08:00 until 17:30.


They are professionals at work after all....

Everyone who drives a company car/van/wagon is a professional driver, are they not?  If you are being paid a wage whilst driving, surely that makes you a 'professional'.

I was travelling up the A36 earlier.  A very large, brand new Tractor towing a massive harvesting attachment.  Had Ambers front and rear (a couple of transit vans).  These guys are obviously professional drivers (as it's their job).  So why run at 3pm on a frickin Friday afternoon????  Short stretches of 2-lane, artics attempting to pass, but cannot due to the width of this thing.

Poole to Bristol, usually 2hrs.  I clocked 3hrs 12mins because of this.

Why not run it at 8pm, or 5am????????????
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 29 August 2020, 12:00:30
Food production os somewhat seasonal and weather driven...

A minor and temporary inconvenience. Alot of the UK asparagus production happens around here, so I sympathise with the sentiment but try to be tolerant to it.  ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 August 2020, 09:36:50
What would the virtue signalling vegans do without their Asparagus, after all. Important stuff. ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 30 August 2020, 16:22:14
You presume that it's always a truck at the front of the queue.

Someone doing 65 in lane 3 will screw up a perfectly good four lane motorway  :-X


And it only takes one fool trying to do 85 in heavy traffic to cause hours of delays.


Perhaps trucks should be the only traffic on dual carriageways(etc) during normal working hours? Say 08:00 until 17:30.


They are professionals at work after all....

Everyone who drives a company car/van/wagon is a professional driver, are they not?  If you are being paid a wage whilst driving, surely that makes you a 'professional'.

I was travelling up the A36 earlier.  A very large, brand new Tractor towing a massive harvesting attachment.  Had Ambers front and rear (a couple of transit vans).  These guys are obviously professional drivers (as it's their job).  So why run at 3pm on a frickin Friday afternoon????  Short stretches of 2-lane, artics attempting to pass, but cannot due to the width of this thing.

Poole to Bristol, usually 2hrs.  I clocked 3hrs 12mins because of this.

Why not run it at 8pm, or 5am????????????

I agree as someone who clocked up 950,000+ logged miles in company cars traveling all over the UK, plus another 200,000+  private journey miles.  I was a "professional driver", and most of the time I found other professional, lorry drivers, who drove for a living good drivers.

But, it was never their own, individual professionalism or not that worried me but the state of the lorry drivers vehicles, especially as in 1979 I escaped being killed by one that was dangerously unfit for the road.  It happened when travelling between Lymington in Hampshire and Christchurch, Dorset.

On a old winding road, now replaced, I passed a rigid 4 axle 30 tonne truck, loaded to the brim with ballast, coming out of a side road from a quarry / depot.  Shortly after that I was going down a small hill and had to stop in a queue of traffic waiting at light controlled road works.  Then THAT lorry came into view in my mirror, or rather screamed into view with his brakes making me well aware he was there.  Traffic was coming up the single laned road as this thing very quickly got larger in my mirror, with me trapped with an embankment on my right, and traffic coming up the hill.  His brakes were now making a hell of a noise and I just knew he could not stop.........................he loomed very large in my mirror as I waited for impact in my Ford Cortina Estate Mk4.  Just as I thought he was going to hit me, he veered out onto the other side of the road which miracrously had now emptied of traffic.  With his brakes now not only screaming, but giving off a terrible smell he went passed me...passed the car in front, then the one in front of him, passed the next one, then the next, until finally stopping half way past the final vehicle in the queue!

In almost shock I started to move down the hill with the other vehicles and past the lorry, and I could see the driver was looking absolutely shocked.  The last I saw of him was as he very slowly moved his truck into a layby and stopped.  I can only imagine what his thoughts had been, but he would have survived, something I knew me and the other occupants of the cars in front of me would not have done if his grossly overloaded and I am sure defective truck had struck us.............30+ tonnes of overloaded vehicle, travelling about 40 miles an hour hitting the rear of a flimsy Ford Cortina Estate...................I would have been flattened, along with others!!

I have never forgotten that moment as it is one of the most "nearlies" I have encountered driving, so it not only the standard of driving ability but the commercial vehicles condition that will always concern me. 

Fast forward to 2016 and the terrible Bath tipper truck accident that killed four, with a car crushed and two pedestrians, including a child, wiped out, due to having faulty brakes.  That accident really rammed home what could have happened to me and still can to others when defective vehicles are driven on our roads by "professional" drivers :'( :'(
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 30 August 2020, 17:55:06
The driver of the Bath tipper lacked the age or experience to be considered professional, and naively found himself working for a shockingly poor company.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 30 August 2020, 19:56:50
The driver of the Bath tipper lacked the age or experience to be considered professional, and naively found himself working for a shockingly poor company.

Indeed, and with many dangerously defective vehicles :(
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 30 August 2020, 20:53:26
The driver of the Bath tipper lacked the age or experience to be considered professional, and naively found himself working for a shockingly poor company.

Indeed, and with many dangerously defective vehicles :(


 If my memory is correct, basically, the tipper was coming down hill,fully frighted, with a inexperienced new pass, and run out of brakes,,  The company were prosecuted for falsification of maintenance records.  I could be wrong, somebody will know doubt ask auntie Google, just to make the point..

 Again Lizzy, in 1979 tipper haulage was worse than international haulage, but you probably find that he ran out off brakes,, which tippers did regularly, there was a similar crash in Sowerby Bridge, again tipper.
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: ronnyd on 30 August 2020, 20:55:10
You never know the condition of the vehicles, or the drivers for that matter, that are on the same stretch of road as yourself.  ???
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 31 August 2020, 19:55:38
The driver of the Bath tipper lacked the age or experience to be considered professional, and naively found himself working for a shockingly poor company.

Indeed, and with many dangerously defective vehicles :(


 If my memory is correct, basically, the tipper was coming down hill,fully frighted, with a inexperienced new pass, and run out of brakes,,  The company were prosecuted for falsification of maintenance records.  I could be wrong, somebody will know doubt ask auntie Google, just to make the point..

 Again Lizzy, in 1979 tipper haulage was worse than international haulage, but you probably find that he ran out off brakes,, which tippers did regularly, there was a similar crash in Sowerby Bridge, again tipper.

No, both the owner and chief mechanic were convicted of manslaughter due to the appalling lack of maintenance on the lorry that crashed but also other vehicles in their fleet.  I remember seeing pictures of brake and suspension components, corroded and defective, that the DVSA inspectors had found and presented to court.  The poor inexperienced driver of the Bath crash was found to be not at fault, and indeed even a very experienced driver would have struggled to stop the crash from happening on that hill ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 31 August 2020, 20:20:44
That's true justice and hopefully he will learn to make better choices ;)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Rangie on 01 September 2020, 11:49:37
Well last day in Cornwall , have driven almost 1000 miles on all types of roads with the twin axle caravan in tow have passed HGVs & they've passed me all without incident, so I'm obviously doing everything right..😎
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 01 September 2020, 18:05:31
Well last day in Cornwall , have driven almost 1000 miles on all types of roads with the twin axle caravan in tow have passed HGVs & they've passed me all without incident, so I'm obviously doing everything right..😎


 You obviously just got on with it,and didn't find or try to create an issue.  :y
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 01 September 2020, 20:26:30
Nah, he just got lucky this time.  ;D
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Rangie on 02 September 2020, 09:45:19
Nah, he just got lucky this time.  ;D
.

No my MPMG was on view 😄😀😃
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Andy B on 02 September 2020, 19:17:22
Well last day in Cornwall , have driven almost 1000 miles on all types of roads with the twin axle caravan in tow have passed HGVs & they've passed me all without incident, so I'm obviously doing everything right..😎


 You obviously just got on with it,and didn't find or try to create an issue.  :y

So sitting at the 'wrong' speed for some knob head hgv driver is creating an issue! ? PRICK!  >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: biggriffin on 02 September 2020, 20:42:32
Well last day in Cornwall , have driven almost 1000 miles on all types of roads with the twin axle caravan in tow have passed HGVs & they've passed me all without incident, so I'm obviously doing everything right..😎


 You obviously just got on with it,and didn't find or try to create an issue.  :y

So sitting at the 'wrong' speed for some knob head hgv driver is creating an issue! ? PRICK!  >:( >:( >:( >:(
.

 If I was post a thread every time, someone, cuts across for a slip road from lane 3/4 at 100--50yrds, or comes twinging down a slip road thinking they have a right to shove in,,  or every other stupid manoeuvre.. It would be pages. Yes you can vent yourself however you feel is required, if you've been infringed,  but I just give a cherrie wave and carry on. :)
Title: Re: 'professional drivers' .....
Post by: Raeturbo on 02 September 2020, 21:14:30
Head down arse up