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[Andy H]

The 9-5 (thats a ScAAB to you) is LPG converted.  It runs sweet on either Petrol or Gas.......... but;

On WOT through 3rd, the LPG decides to throw a fit and start beeping at me. At the same time, I get the EML light.  Switch back to Petrol, and all is well in the world.

Drive it on LPG all day long without giving it a massive quantity of beans, and no troubles.

Stag300 kit.

Am I right in thinking it needs a tweak from the people in the know, or is there something seriously wrong?

I cant imagine this 2.3 Turbo will use any more fuel on WOT than a 3.0/3.2 Omega..... so surely this LPG kit should be able to keep up?

It has been serviced annually by Avon Autogas, and I will be taking it there for their advice, but I wanted to hear the opinions of those on here who really know their stuff.

Thankies! 

A 3.0/3.2 Omega is around 215 BHP - your SAAB around 250 BHP IIRC? so it will need more gas at WOT.

[Broomies Mate]

The 9-5 (thats a ScAAB to you) is LPG converted.  It runs sweet on either Petrol or Gas.......... but;

On WOT through 3rd, the LPG decides to throw a fit and start beeping at me. At the same time, I get the EML light.  Switch back to Petrol, and all is well in the world.

Drive it on LPG all day long without giving it a massive quantity of beans, and no troubles.

Stag300 kit.

Am I right in thinking it needs a tweak from the people in the know, or is there something seriously wrong?

I cant imagine this 2.3 Turbo will use any more fuel on WOT than a 3.0/3.2 Omega..... so surely this LPG kit should be able to keep up?

It has been serviced annually by Avon Autogas, and I will be taking it there for their advice, but I wanted to hear the opinions of those on here who really know their stuff.

Thankies! 

A 3.0/3.2 Omega is around 215 BHP - your SAAB around 250 BHP IIRC? so it will need more gas at WOT.

I was basing my assumption on the ScAAB being a far more efficient engine needing less fuelling for more output.  I could be completely wrong though.

[Kevin Wood]

.. and turbocharged engines need to run richer in the first place.

[D]

A 3.0/3.2 Omega is around 215 BHP - your SAAB around 250 BHP IIRC? so it will need more gas at WOT.

The critical figure is usually bhp per cylinder. The Saab is a 4 pot? So 63 vs 37 bhp per cylinder on the Omega. What sort of vap has it got? Is it rated for a demanding engine?

Then factor in the turbo as well. More than likely the vap has been compromised due to cost.

Smell as others have said is a leak. Check the multivalve, pressure relief and tubing. Often metal clamps come loose causing gas to leak into the cabin. Old multivalves and wonky joints leak. Use a soapy solution to identify leaks. Alternatively pay for a leak finding spray from Ebay. They are not usually worth the cost however.

[Broomies Mate]

Fantastic advice as always from the OOF lot.

The problem I'm faced with is that nothing seems to be a problem until WOT at high speeds (literally, when it locks up in 3rd).

I'm going to be chasing my tail looking for a leak at idle, or even at high RPM when there is no load.  Or am I being silly?

I know next to naff all when it comes to Gas. 

[cem_devecioglu]

The 9-5 (thats a ScAAB to you) is LPG converted.  It runs sweet on either Petrol or Gas.......... but;

On WOT through 3rd, the LPG decides to throw a fit and start beeping at me. At the same time, I get the EML light.  Switch back to Petrol, and all is well in the world.

Drive it on LPG all day long without giving it a massive quantity of beans, and no troubles.

Stag300 kit.

Am I right in thinking it needs a tweak from the people in the know, or is there something seriously wrong?

I cant imagine this 2.3 Turbo will use any more fuel on WOT than a 3.0/3.2 Omega..... so surely this LPG kit should be able to keep up?

It has been serviced annually by Avon Autogas, and I will be taking it there for their advice, but I wanted to hear the opinions of those on here who really know their stuff.

Thankies! 

A 3.0/3.2 Omega is around 215 BHP - your SAAB around 250 BHP IIRC? so it will need more gas at WOT.

yep.. pretty sure stag injectors or ecu dont have the answer for this fuel demand.. common problem on turbo cars.. 

[chrisgixer]

If there's a jubilee clip involved, start there. They always leak by the worm housing.

...and that leak spray is hopeles ime. It's supposed to be prefered over water/soap due to corrosion issues, but if it doesn't work....

If you use water and detergent, follow round with some wd 40 after.


I'd guess the leak is going to be quite obvious if you can smell it in the car though.

[Broomies Mate]

yep.. pretty sure stag injectors or ecu dont have the answer for this fuel demand.. common problem on turbo cars.. 

As far as I know (not much) these Stag 300 kits are the best from that era (2006).

Also, they are used on engines with far greater output than the 250BHP of mine.

I think the leak (under full boost and full torque) is causing the problem.  Finding the leak it going to be easy or impossible.  I'll just replace every fitting back from the inlet and see how that goes.

Or, and I hate to say it, hand the keys to a specialist and let them sort it. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

I hate to say it, hand the keys to a specialist and let them sort it. 

If the dealer is paying, why not? 

[Broomies Mate]

I hate to say it, hand the keys to a specialist and let them sort it. 

If the dealer is paying, why not? 

You have a good point, but I hate anyone else working on my cars.  I'd love for the dealer to say "Yes, go and get it fixed and give me the bill".... that's never going to happen.  I'd rather spend £80 myself for someone I trust (or at least a company I trust) to look over it than the dealer to pretend they have fixed it, do up every joint to FT ft-lb and leave me with a wreck at the end of it.

Arghhh - I should just leave it to them to fix, but I'm an asshole and I want to make sure it's right.

[Andy H]

Probably the evapourator or the multivalve (if fitted) isn't up to the job - you need to check it isn't going lean, as that will quickly wreck the pistons...

I'm a complete LPG novice, but if anything, I'd say it was rich.  I can definitely smell gas when sat in traffic, even though idle is bang on and very consistent.

I'll need a pro to look at it, and soon. 

The smell of the flue gas after combustion is quite pungent - are you sure that you are not smelling your own exhaust ? 

[cem_devecioglu]

looking at the figures stag 300 come with different reducers.. one 140 hp(alaska)  and other 250 hp (magic jet) claimed..

[chrisgixer]

looking at the figures stag 300 come with different reducers.. one 140 hp(alaska)  and other 250 hp (magic jet) claimed..

There is no reason why the one particular set of injectors must be used with one particilar reducer. It is not a set of components all made together. Far from it in fact. Although a kit would have to include one or other obviously. There is a list of possible injectors in the software as long as your arm. From kahin as used on the Prins kits to the basic moto gas type or whatever....

These are chosen primarily from the Max bhp from the engine as said. The rest is down to budget. One might think that one lpg kit is much the same as another given the bhp, but things like lag and poor set up creep in the cheaper you go.

Achieving a decent idle and still keeping up at wot becomes harder with cheaper kits.

For instance the Kahin and Hanna injectors do ALL their work on duration to achieve correct fuelling. Where as the cheaper motogas ones rely on the use of nozzels to hold an amount of back pressure in the line. These have to be drilled to the correct diameter fir each particular engine.
 This can only be done by trial and error, although once done can be used on for all as on the 3.2 omegas here for example. They will all prety much run on a 1.2mm nozzel size iirc. As TB found out as his are too big, the idle and multipliers are quite differant to achieve a decent set over all.
 Obviously initial drilling of nozzels to find the right size means whipping the inlet out each time. None of this malarky is necessary with the Hanna and Kahin (prinz) injectors.

[cem_devecioglu]

the main problem with turbo engines is that they dont demand fuel in a linear curve like the na .. instead when the turbo kicks in there is a very rapid (non linear ) fuel demand curve within a short range of rpm change..  and I dont think stag ecu maps are tested or developed against most turbo cars one by one.. thats practically impossible..


and thats valid if we assume all components functioning properly!

[chrisgixer]

The ecu will demand as much fuel as required. Flow rate of the fuel system is then very much a quality v cost issue, and hence experience of the installer is important. Luckily we have Kevin Wood for that type of thing.