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Author Topic: V8 solution  (Read 4521 times)

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05omegav6

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V8 solution
« on: 10 April 2012, 14:52:34 »

If, as is widely believed, the GM LS1/2/3 won't fit, I've a couple of suggestions:

1. Mercedes M113. 4.3 - 5.5 plus supercharger potential. Fits in a C Class, which has a steering box but auto only. About £2000 for a rusty  E430 :-\ An older, and therefore cheaper alternative, the M119 4.2 - 5.0, as found in the W140 S Class, but also fitted in the W 124 E Class, unloved about £1000  :y 280+ bhp.

2a. BMW M62B35/M62B44 as found in the 5 Series, 96-98, available with a manual box, again £1-2000 for a complete car. 280 bhp.

2b. BMW M60B35/M60B40 as found in the earlier 7 Series and 5 Series, 92-96. sub £1000. 275 bhp

2c. BMW M62TUB44, 5 Series etc, from 98. Canbus, so perhaps not as straightforward :-\ 280+bhp

2d. BMW S62B5, from the M5. Most expensive choice from this lot. 350+ bhp

There you have it :y

My money would be on the Merc lump as the cars they were fitted to have steering box set ups, so packaging might be easier :-\ then again, it wouldn't be the first time that someone dropped a BMW lump in an Omega, would it ::)

Off down the shops to stock up on popcorn...

P.S. Chris, I did say you might not like the solution :-\
« Last Edit: 10 April 2012, 14:55:06 by taxi al »
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tunnie

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #1 on: 10 April 2012, 15:46:39 »

Thats a lot of hassle for just 70 extra horses in most cases  :-\
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05omegav6

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #2 on: 10 April 2012, 18:37:44 »

Thats a lot of hassle for just 70 extra horses in most cases  :-\
Let's put that extra power (and torque) into perspective...

T how much more drivable is your 3.2 compared to your old 2.2 :-\. Thank you and goodnight ;)

The obvious solution to this "problem" is available to buy either 2nd hand or off the shelf, and looks remarkably like the Monaro and VXR8. But there really expensive aren't they? I'll wager that several people here spent the best part of £10k on their Omegas. :-\

If you really want a V8 in your Omega, I have simply suggested a couple of tunable alternatives, that may or may not be suitable. It is a hypothetical exercise, and no more or less practical than trying to squeeze an LS lump in. :y

Basically it boils down to how much people like their Omegas, and how much power they reckon the chassis can handle :y
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dbug

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #3 on: 10 April 2012, 19:53:47 »

Thats a lot of hassle for just 70 extra horses in most cases  :-\

Yep but an increase of 70bhp is more than significant and cheapest way to achieve that level of increased power is to fit a different lump!  Tuning motors follows the law of diminishing returns - first 10% power increase fairly "cheap", next 5% "exhorbitant cost".

I know from experience from tuning my full race 1293 "S" back in late 60s/early 70's  ;)
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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #4 on: 10 April 2012, 20:40:05 »

I'm surprised the LS engine doesn't fit. I've seen Carltons with V8's. What are the Aussies doing in the Commadore etc?
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feeutfo

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #5 on: 10 April 2012, 20:42:45 »

In conversations with 2woody, it seems there's more to it than just the engine. What gear box/bell housing/drive train? etc.

BMW v8 lumps are available, but finding one with a manual box will, apparently, be a challenge... for example. Any engine can be made to fit, and married, to any box. But then your into custom bell housings.

The plan would be to fit LS lump, temac t5 box. Bell housing freely available obviously. Then makes sense to fit drive shaft and dif from same, and I believe will fit. Then your into final drive shafts and hubs, which I think 2woody has some combination of omega or Carlton parts in mind. Omega drive train won't cope long term with Ls levels of bhp.

Nobody is suggesting the Ls lump won't fit. It's been done before, we've seen the pics. But the question in my mind is how well it will fit, and how expensive it will be. We're looking at 4k for an Ls lump, plus drive train and box, before we even start. Then there's exhaust manufacture, manifolds will be a mare, and so on.

If I wanted more power from an omega that's the route I'd follow... If I had the money.
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feeutfo

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #6 on: 10 April 2012, 20:44:57 »

I'm surprised the LS engine doesn't fit. I've seen Carltons with V8's. What are the Aussies doing in the Commadore etc?
Commodore floor is wider than omega. Although its based on same.
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dbug

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #7 on: 10 April 2012, 20:49:23 »

You'd be suprised at what will fit what - fitted a 3.8S Jag lump + g/box into a 105E anglia back in the 60s - fantastic acceleration up to 100mph then no more - never got round to spending time sorting final drive :)

Have to say lots of other parts needed changing/upgrading though - brakes, suspension, half shafts (kept snapping them) etc etc
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feeutfo

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #8 on: 10 April 2012, 20:56:28 »

You'd be suprised at what will fit what - fitted a 3.8S Jag lump + g/box into a 105E anglia back in the 60s - fantastic acceleration up to 100mph then no more - never got round to spending time sorting final drive :)

Have to say lots of other parts needed changing/upgrading though - brakes, suspension, half shafts (kept snapping them) etc etc
Aeye, although the Ls lump has an alloy block, versus the omega iron. So weight will be similar re suspension. I'd fully expect b4 and sport springs to cope, afaict. The mv6 that was converted to v8 had stock suspension.
 Brakes however, would have to be upgraded though. No doubt there. The AP set ups on the commodore are in the region of £1500. Stock comadore have fully floating discs with, I think, 6pot calipers. Not bloody cheap either way.
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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #9 on: 10 April 2012, 21:37:19 »

 :D :D i fffitted a rover 3.5 in a mini inthe 90s alot of work bugger did it go :D :D
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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #10 on: 10 April 2012, 22:00:42 »

Most of those V8s are OHC or DOHC so wider, taller heads than the pushrod GM lumps. For that reason I'd be surprised if they'd be any more compact. Quite the opposite, I reckon. ;)
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feeutfo

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #11 on: 10 April 2012, 22:29:58 »

It does amaze me when it's suggested the North Star lump was in the GM Omega prototype. As sassanach posted pictures of one, the North Star lump is enormous.

Lexus v8 is double overhead cam, although comparatively small, Rats still had to remove lumps of chassis to make it fit, and fit a rack.

Logistically it has to be a Chevy v8. Rover doesn't put put enough power to make it worth while.
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05omegav6

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #12 on: 10 April 2012, 23:56:54 »

I made the suggestions that I did based on the fact that these engines are readily available for alot less than an LS. In the case of the Merc lumps, the W202 C Class is considerably smaller than an  Omega :y. Buying a complete car provides you with all the niceties such as suitable brakes/diff and not least wiring.  :-\

If you want to go the full monty then the LS is the only way to go, and it stands to reason that if you're set on doing such a conversion, then it will be completely custom, and pricey ::).

A quick rummage on Ebay will produce a handful of 540's at sensible money. Whether the work involved is worth the final outcome is a completely different question...  was at least one manual E34 when I last looked :-\ also a 4.4/5.0 V8 will always be smaller than a 6.0/6.2 V8.
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feeutfo

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #13 on: 11 April 2012, 00:23:41 »

Some ramblings...

If going to that trouble, it would have to be a Chevy lump, and give 400bhp at least.

Although, if going to that trouble, stick the Chevy lump in a better chassis. Is the omega worthy of that engine? Not so sure. A few kit car builders might consider the omega chassis a waist. :-\

... Although comparing omega to vxr8, omega wins hands down on toys...And comfort, except commadore seats are luxurious.

If I had a vxr8 I'd miss the omega toys. If I stick with omega, I'd want that engine. :-\

It's easier to LPG with the omega boot though. Although there will be no room in the engine bay...Swings and roundabouts.


But as always, money decides. Project will have to wait... Or a very cheap oppertunity will have to arise to make it possible.... For me anyway.




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05omegav6

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Re: V8 solution
« Reply #14 on: 11 April 2012, 00:47:21 »

Hence the BMW suggestion :y.

I appreciate what you're saying about the Omega, as a car it punches well above its weight in the details. As a project, if you're going to do it, it may as well be exactly how you want it, but it will cost :-\

Otherwise you might just as well buy an eight year old M5 or E55, but guarantee that it won't be the same :-\

£2000 would buy the basic ingredients, an early E38, and a ropey Omega. Throw in a bit of time and some chin/head scratching and you'll get a working car to develop into a viable proposition. No more or less hassle than the LS,  but alot cheaper. If a 3.5 V8 fits/works in a scruffy shed, then the M5 lump should do nicely in a tidy shell. If it doesn't then you've not bankrupted yourself in the process :y
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