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[mark3]

Om my way home yesterday i had lots of steam from under my bonnet when stationary, at first i thought it smoke and that pesky oil leak from cam cover had started again, after sitting in a 5 mile que for the Dartford crossing by the time i was literally just round the corner from home i see the engine temp climbing, got home no prob to find this had split



Next to the jubilee engine side, Main dealer part only and would you believe it? my local dealer had one in stock for less than £20!

Cant believe how lucky i was though, if it had gone an hour earlier i wouild have been stranded on the M25 in a 5 mile que in the p!ssing rain too!

[TheBoy]

There shouldn't be any jubilee clips on coolant hoses....  ....so thats why it failed

Its supposed to use those spring clips - is that what you meant?  Top hose does occasionally go porous, yet to see one split, unless its recently suffered a major oil cooler failure

[OOMV6]

There shouldn't be any jubilee clips on coolant hoses....  ....so thats why it failed

Its supposed to use those spring clips - is that what you meant?  Top hose does occasionally go porous, yet to see one split, unless its recently suffered a major oil cooler failure

When mine went in the same way as per http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=102966.msg1288656#msg1288656 I found hose to rad was a spring clip and hose to engine end was a jubilee. Assumed this was correct.

[mark3]

There shouldn't be any jubilee clips on coolant hoses....  ....so thats why it failed

Its supposed to use those spring clips - is that what you meant?  Top hose does occasionally go porous, yet to see one split, unless its recently suffered a major oil cooler failure

I replaced that and a few other spring type clips when i did the head gaskets in 2009 as they had lost there "spring" and Jubilee clips are fine unless you over tighten them, spring clips are quicker to fit which is why there used in production, i think i can blame this on a 15 year old hose and not a jubilee clip.

Either way i thought i was particularly lucky, imagine the horrors of being stranded in 4 lanes in the rain? lol

[TheBoy]

Jubilee clips are fine unless you over tighten them, spring clips are quicker to fit which is why there used in production, i think i can blame this on a 15 year old hose and not a jubilee clip.

The spring clips are designed to give the right amount of pressure, and allow for the expansion/shrinkage with temperature. Thats why they are used.

Jubilee clips allow no expansion, over time start to cut in to the hose, and as soon as that starts, will fail.


Although nobody can complain about a top hose failing after 15yrs


But replace the jubilees with proper spring clips

[Entwood]

There shouldn't be any jubilee clips on coolant hoses....  ....so thats why it failed

Its supposed to use those spring clips - is that what you meant?  Top hose does occasionally go porous, yet to see one split, unless its recently suffered a major oil cooler failure

I replaced that and a few other spring type clips when i did the head gaskets in 2009 as they had lost there "spring" and Jubilee clips are fine unless you over tighten them, spring clips are quicker to fit which is why there used in production, i think i can blame this on a 15 year old hose and not a jubilee clip.

Either way i thought i was particularly lucky, imagine the horrors of being stranded in 4 lanes in the rain? lol

Not quite true ...

Spring clips are used on items that expand/contract with changes in temperature .. ie water pipes ... as they "give" whilst maintaining the same tension.

Jubilee clips do not "give", or expand at the same rate, so the clip "digs in" to the pipe, causing damage and subsequent failure.

Manufacturers spend much money on research and design, WHY do folks think it is all about cost cutting, and it can always be done better ? ,......


EDIT ... SNAP (must type faster ..   )

[mark3]

I cant see an ally top hose connector expanding that much to cause a problem, we talking fractions of a mm which will easily be taken up by the hose as long as the clip isn't over tightened.

Anyway if jubilee clips are that bad all the cars in the world with jubilee clips would be going through hoses so fast manufacturers wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand, spring clips are quick to fit and idiot proof cos you cant over tighten them, be careful with a jubilee and there just as good, if not better as they don't loose there tension over time.

[Nick W]

Jubilee clips are fine unless you over tighten them, spring clips are quicker to fit which is why there used in production, i think i can blame this on a 15 year old hose and not a jubilee clip.

The spring clips are designed to give the right amount of pressure, and allow for the expansion/shrinkage with temperature. Thats why they are used.

Jubilee clips allow no expansion, over time start to cut in to the hose, and as soon as that starts, will fail.


Although nobody can complain about a top hose failing after 15yrs


But replace the jubilees with proper spring clips

Whilst in principle I agree, in practice the actual expansion has got to be so small as to be irrelevant. I wonder if it's even easily measured. That is a potential job for when I've nothing better to do.

As for the correct tension, every spring clip that I've removed(and I often do refit them) has left compressed marks on the hose just like a properly tightened Jubilee clip. And that isn't very tight! I've never damaged a hose with one, nor seen a split hose that couldn't be better explained by age. I have struggled with spring clips that have leaked; at least a Jubilee clip gives me the option of a tweak.

I don't have your faith in their ability to retain their characteristics over time, let alone several removals, especially considering the methods frequently required to remove them from the bowels of the engine. Most of the time it took to change my HBV was removing the bloody clips; fitting the new one and finishing the job took less than 5 minutes. Undoing the O/S radiator hose when I did the cambelt was a similar exercise in frustration. I had no hesitation in replacing them with Jubilee clips, and will continue to do so when necessary.

I consider that the speed and simple  repeatability on the assembly line, combined with their  potential lower cost are all reasons why they are used originally. But what is quick, cheap, efficient and effective in a productionenvironment is often exactly the opposite in a service one.

[Tetleysmooth]

I think it's the age and deterioration of the rubber that makes the clips cut in, not the clips themsellves.
Just my two pennarth.

[TheBoy]

Anyway if jubilee clips are that bad all the cars in the world with jubilee clips would be going through hoses so fast manufacturers wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand, spring clips are quick to fit and idiot proof cos you cant over tighten them, be careful with a jubilee and there just as good, if not better as they don't loose there tension over time.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

On Omegas, every top hose failure I've ever seen has been with jubilees.

[TheBoy]

As for the correct tension, every spring clip that I've removed(and I often do refit them) has left compressed marks on the hose just like a properly tightened Jubilee clip. And that isn't very tight! I've never damaged a hose with one, nor seen a split hose that couldn't be better explained by age. I have struggled with spring clips that have leaked; at least a Jubilee clip gives me the option of a tweak.

......

But what is quick, cheap, efficient and effective in a productionenvironment is often exactly the opposite in a service one.

Jubilees have an added disadvantage of uneven pressure, particularly around the clasp, which is where the hoses tend to fail.

If it was purely about build costs, they wouldn't use jubilees elsewhere on the engine.  But for hoses, no


Needless to say, I will continue to use the correct clips on my hoses

[Andy H]

With the right tool the spring clip takes a couple of seconds to fit (or remove). I used to curse them, before I bought the correct tool, and I assumed that the only reason for their use was to save time & money on the production line.

Several years (and cars) later I have to concede that I haven't (yet  ) had a hose or spring clip fail on a car that uses them. They are 'fit and forget'.

My Range Rover has masses of jubilee clips and there always seems to be one that is starting to weep coolant. I may have to take some measurements and see if I can get spring clips to fit.....