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[Peterskinn]

Hi OOF,

I wonder if anyone out there has come across this one before?

Not long bought the car (91K Miles) and have now done about 1000 miles..... The other day when coming up a hill after a long climb the engine light (orange one with a representation of a engine block) came on and the engine started juddering. Brief stop to cool down and it re-started and ran OK again but the problem seemed to re-occur over the next few days with increasing frequency - and of course the orange light never went off.

The starting point seemed to be the cam sensor which I suspected was on the way out and being affected by engine temperature. So I changed it..........

I did a number of jobs whilst in the area (mainly connected to windscreen leaks)  but nothing remotely connected to engine management systems....

My problem now is that - although the engine has re-started and runs fine the gearbox seems to have lost the will to live! To be clear - it seems though it will only pull off in "D" in a very high gear - possibly top. It might be almost confining itself to 2nd and 3rd gear. Having no experience of this I'm wondering if I am now stuck in the much-read-about Limp Mode?? I can manually drive through the ratios but having done this is why I suspect that it's never actually getting into 4th..... mind you I haven't got much above 50-55mph where the revs are about 2K.

I've booked it in to have the fault codes read/cleared and to have the Gearbox fluid changed - both of which seem like a good starting point?

I also wonder if the new cam sensor is "talking" properly to the parts it should be? I think I understood that it has a direct influence on the gearbox operation??

The gearbox operation has always seemed "clunky" to me - often too high coming out of a corner but also sometimes changing down to a low ratio which revs the guts out of the engine. I was suspecting low fluid level anyway.

I have checked the obvious things like plug connections etc - all seem OK.

Anybody out there in OOF land have any ideas?

Peter

[RobG]

Gear indicator lights acting as they should?
Centre circular plug fixed securely near battery

[SIR Philbutt]

Is the cam sensor a GM one - pattern ones do not seem to work ok

[RobG]

Three questions asked, not one answer

[Peterskinn]

1. Gear Selector lights - OK (Sport Mode does NOT come on)
2. It's a pattern one from "London Parts"
3. Centre circular plug - I'm off to check now

[RobG]

1. Gear Selector lights - OK (Sport Mode does NOT come on)
2. It's a pattern one from "London Parts"
3. Centre circular plug - I'm off to check now

1, Possible dirty selector switch. http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90673.0
2, More than likely your problem,. Genuine from Dealer circa £70 retail

[Peterskinn]

Large Circular plug seems OK

[Peterskinn]

Have ordered ANOTHER (Vauxhall) Cam sensor - Grrrrrr

I appreciate the advice

Peter

[Peterskinn]

Cor Blimey - This is driving me mad.

Because I've just had a fit of ill health I entrusted this job to garage - whose skills I respect.

What he did was:-

1. Started by replacing GB fluid & filter

2. Cleaned the selector switch on the side of the box.

3. Found that the cam belt was "slack" - so tightened it up.

4. Refitted the original GM cam sensor

5. Although not having the full "Tech 2" software - he has the kit to address the ECU stuff and managed to get all codes cleared.

I collected the car and used it for a couple of days in varied traffic and hot weather. About 200 miles - at which stage I i was a happy bunny.

At the end of the second day and after some heavy crawling traffic the misfire and warning light returned. Followed shortly by overheating and  "low coolant" warning.

At that stage I thought - nothing too serious - the original cam sensor is obviously on its way out and has failed again in hot conditions - misfire causing overheating. I'll refit the new sensor.

Result - a return to limp mode. Ah well - I know that I now have buy the proper GM sensor

However in doing the work to swap/try out i noticed that the cam belt is definitely - what I would call - slack.

I've looked through the forum but failed to find a "How to" guide. I can see a pointer on the tensioner but have never set up a GM cam belt 

As you can imagine I'm reluctant to change the sensor if a slack/misaligned cam belt is the root cause of the trouble??

Has anyone out there any experience of this???

[SIR Philbutt]

Misalignment of the cam belt would not normally be sensitive to changes due to running temp of the engine - so a bit of a red herring. This is more likely to be the sensor

The timing belt being "slack" is an issue as too slack could cause it to jump a tooth.

The important positions to look at the tension in the belt is between the exhaust cam pulley and the crank pulley as this is where the pull of the belt occurs. IME this is where there should be hardly any "flex" of the cam belt and also between the cam pulleys where there should be none.

Checking TDC (Top Dead Centre) alignment is relatively simple.
With the hand Brake on, ignition off and in neutral, use a ring spanner to turn the engine (clockwise looking at the engine) on the crank pulley centre bolt until both cam pulley markers are aligned with the markers on the back plate

Picture of markers but not aligned in this


Then look at the crank pulley and the slot on the pulley edge should be in-line with the pin coming from the block. If so Cam belt is aligned

Fixing any misalignment or lack of tension is probably best resolved by removing the belt and refitting correctly. That's what i would do anyway

HTH
Phil

[PhilRich]

Could the OP be refering to the auxilliary belt?, as the Cam belt is not visible without some dismantling & he said he is not up to changing the Cam sensor himself atm. So perhaps the Auxilliary belt tensioner is loose/fubar?
There again, this wouldn't cause overheating as the water pump is Cambelt driven  

[SIR Philbutt]

Could the OP be refering to the auxilliary belt?, as the Cam belt is not visible without some dismantling & he said he is not up to changing the Cam sensor himself atm. So perhaps the Auxilliary belt tensioner is loose/fubar?
There again, this wouldn't cause overheating as the water pump is Cambelt driven

Assumed he is referring to cam belt as changing cam sensor needs cover off. But you could be right, we will see I guess

[Peterskinn]

Thanks again.

Yes - I was referring to the cam belt and yes I have the cover off.

I will now try the alignment routine you describe. If it were jumping a tooth that would definitely account for the running?

Assuming it is correctly aligned - Is there somewhere I can refer to for the whole tensioning procedure?

Seems odd to me that the belt can be as slack as it is??

Cheers - Peter

[SIR Philbutt]

In here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=106562.0

[Peterskinn]

Thanks - I'll read it again.

P

[Peterskinn]

Well..........

It's getting slightly better.

The cam belt was a red herring - checked again having re-read the instructions and all was well. I think the slackness I saw was just the way the engine had settled when it stopped. Certainly, when running, the pointer on the tensioner is spot-on.

Have today fitted the GM Cam Sensor (£57!) and the engine starts fine and GB operation is OK (Kick-down, sport mode,  the lot!)

As I drove off I'm thinking - great stuff - HOWEVER very soon I got a misfire again.

I'm thinking that I have eliminated the Cam Sensor so I'm wondering whether the coil pack breaks down as the engine gets hot?? Is that feasible?

Certainly a "Misfire on No 4" was one of the fault codes my friendly garage found. (along with many others)

As a basic check I removed all the spark plugs. No 3 was v dirty - the other three looked fine and very clean. I swapped the No 3  pro-tem and again - when cool - the engine ran fine. Within 1/2 mile the misfire returns!!

Any ideas?

Otherwise a very nice car is edging nearer the scrapheap..........

[SIR Philbutt]

Coil pack can be sensitive to temp, also, the rubber "boots" can break down and cause the spark to "leak" away. Check for cracking or bits missing, these can be replaced and reasonably cheap from GM

£57 seems cheap for a cam sensor from a GM stealer, well done

Reading your earlier post you mentioned coolant loss. Is this still occurring? as this along with a missfire can be a sign of the head gasket failing. Under certain circumstances HG failing can show itself as the engine warms and very quickly gets worse. This happened to me when I ignored coolant loss and misfire once.

[Peterskinn]

As I write I'm awaiting the arrival of the coil pack.

I suppose the only thing after that is the crankshaft sensor

......and then - yes indeed the head gasket!

I have a feeling this one will run and run......

I feel I might be suffering from putting heavy use onto a car which has clearly not done a lot of motorway miles (90K in 12 years??)

Ah well.

[Peterskinn]

Looks like it's the head gasket.  Losing water very quickly.

I am now suspecting that the previous work solved the gearbox problem but that the returning misfire was the head gasket. Personally I've never known a HG go with a bang like that - usually a very slow-burn experience?

Or am I just remembering life through rose tinted specs?

I'll keep you posted - Aaaaaaaaargh!

[Peterskinn]

Oh Cor Blimey - this gets worse............

Garage have been doing the work (as a cash "Inbetweener") and have called today to say that, having removed and skimmed the head they have now re-assembled

Now they come to timing it all up and have found that the engine won't turn - I assume it stops just before TDC.

Is it possible to have removed too much material from the head thus bringing the head down so low that the pistons foul???

Or am I seeing the worst and it's just a valve in the wrong position. I guess basically he question is - how much room is there??

As I've said before - Aaaaaaaargh!!

[SIR Philbutt]

Sounds like cam belt aligned wrong to me. Pistons will hit valves if this is so, and their problem to resolve as ok before

Would have to skim a lot off head to cause this, and of course their fault not yours, info on skim limits generally available to people that do this type of work

[Peterskinn]

Thanks - I'll pass that on........

Peter

[Andy A]

Peter, Check to see if they have the crank pulley mark aligned properly at the bottom like this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/14079701179/in/datetaken/

and not with the pin at the 2 o'clock position. You can just see the pin to the right of the cam/timing belt.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/14140445632/in/datetaken/

Hope this helps.

[Peterskinn]

Well - I hesitate to write this but........

I've now had the car back from the garage and driven nearly 400+ miles. So far so good. The problem with the engine turned out to be a bolt that had fallen through the sparkplug hole!!

Lumpy tickover now - but that's the least of my worries after this lot!

Will continue to drive carefully and see how it all progresses!!

[EMD]

Well - I hesitate to write this but........

I've now had the car back from the garage and driven nearly 400+ miles. So far so good. The problem with the engine turned out to be a bolt that had fallen through the sparkplug hole!!

Lumpy tickover now - but that's the least of my worries after this lot!

Will continue to drive carefully and see how it all progresses!!

 

[Peterskinn]

My thoughts exactly!!

I guess we were lucky that it prevented the engine turning at the set up stage. Had it been elsewhere and not been spotted - that would have been the end of the engine!

[SIR Philbutt]

Lumpy tickover is more than likely a vac pipe/EGR problem seeing as the head has been off.

Lightly spray brake cleaner around the inlet/brake servo area and the rear of the head. If tickover restores that will confirm it.

Then process of elimination will find the leak

[Peterskinn]

I have wondered about starting a new thread - but here goes anyway.

I've had the car back now for couple of weeks during which time I've done about 600 miles. In an effort to cure the lumpy tickover I followed all the advice and did the throttle body strip/clean and whilst I was under the bonnet cleaned the oil breather, EGR valve and the MAF. Other than the breather pipe all was dirty but nothing appeared to be blocked

Started up and all worked OK even did a test drive and it certainly performed better.

Came to get in it today, started up  and NOTHING. It would start and hold a - sometimes erratic - tickover - but there absolutely NO response to throttle pedal input.

Checked the obvious things like the plug connectors etc - all seemed OK. Will have another go later - But (here we go again) anybody got any ideas?? 

[EMD]

Any codes ? Maybe coil pack breaking down 

[flyer 0712]

Could it be the throttle sensor on the pedal ?

[05omegav6]

Has the cam sensor been changed? If so, where was replacement sourced? 

[Peterskinn]

Coil Pack and Cam Sensor both NEW - Cam Sensor Genuine Vauxhall

Have had it working intermittently and got to my garage with ECU Software - fault codes mainly pointing to throttle position sensor - and various other ones which would appear to be down to unplugging whilst the engine is running.....

Ran very well for a while then stop & start and the throttle pedal has no effect!  Am I unlucky enough to have suffered a throttle body fault as well??


Bring back Zenith Carbs and a cable!!

[05omegav6]

Didn't quite answer the question... where, exactly did you buy the cam sensor? In person or over interweb?

[Steve B]

Didn't quite answer the question... where, exactly did you buy the cam sensor? In person or over interweb?

£57 

[05omegav6]

Didn't quite answer the question... where, exactly did you buy the cam sensor? In person or over interweb?

£57 

That didn't answer the question either... I could buy fake cam sensors and punt them out as genuine for £57 and make a decent living out of it...

If the Cam sensor was purchased anywhere other than a VX dealer which required your actual physical presence, then I would suggest that the one fitted is a fake.

[Peterskinn]

It came from the local VX dealer.

Yes it was £57 + the dreaded VAT

Runs beautifully - when it runs.

[Steve B]

It came from the local VX dealer.

Yes it was £57 + the dreaded VAT

Runs beautifully - when it runs.

The reason for going on about the cam sensor is that they are around £80 approx

Did you personally go into VX and buy it then 

[Peterskinn]

Yup

[SIR Philbutt]

I have wondered about starting a new thread - but here goes anyway.

I've had the car back now for couple of weeks during which time I've done about 600 miles. In an effort to cure the lumpy tickover I followed all the advice and did the throttle body strip/clean and whilst I was under the bonnet cleaned the oil breather, EGR valve and the MAF. Other than the breather pipe all was dirty but nothing appeared to be blocked

Started up and all worked OK even did a test drive and it certainly performed better.

Came to get in it today, started up  and NOTHING. It would start and hold a - sometimes erratic - tickover - but there absolutely NO response to throttle pedal input.

Checked the obvious things like the plug connectors etc - all seemed OK. Will have another go later - But (here we go again) anybody got any ideas?? 

If the code is P1555 then this is the throttle body (or pedal) but seeing as you have cleaned it;

Could be the butterfly sticking?
Did you take it out to clean?
Did you put it back the right way up/centered correctly?
Did you force it all the way open to clean?

All questions I asked/checked myself, see this thread, http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=130904.msg1676240#msg1676240
note throttle adaptation not specific to migs but may help, throttle full on, ign on, hold for 30 secs, release and start

Good luck, I still have the prob and ignoring it for now

[Peterskinn]

Hi - I appreciate the help and advice - esp the "throttle adaptation"

Other Questions:-

Could be the butterfly sticking? - seems stiff but i don't know how it should be - certainly it moves under a good poke with a screwdriver and I oiled the spindles in case I had been overenthusiastic with the carb cleaner stuff
Did you take it out to clean? Yes
Did you put it back the right way up/centered correctly? Yes
Did you force it all the way open to clean? Yes - I guess in my heart of hearts I'm wondering if I've been too heavy handed??

[SIR Philbutt]

Hi - I appreciate the help and advice - esp the "throttle adaptation"

Other Questions:-

Could be the butterfly sticking? - seems stiff but i don't know how it should be - certainly it moves under a good poke with a screwdriver and I oiled the spindles in case I had been overenthusiastic with the carb cleaner stuff
Did you take it out to clean? Yes
Did you put it back the right way up/centered correctly? Yes
Did you force it all the way open to clean? Yes - I guess in my heart of hearts I'm wondering if I've been too heavy handed??

Stiff is the stepper motor being manually turned by you thats why I mentioned opening all the way

Same here, no throttle response. Mine seemed to be getting stuck and a few taps on the throttle body made it work, I had a spare which did resolve it  but not anything else still get P1555 but does not seem to affect the car so ignoring for now

[Peterskinn]

Blimey - where did that time all go??

As I write the car is going OK - now 1600 miles since gasket change and yes I got a new (Ebay new) throttle body.

Whisper it - but all seems well so far...

Heater is very poor - have flushed the system with a hose - which helped a little. I'm steeling myself for a poke and prod behind the facia - as seen elsewhere on OOF.

Other than that - new battery (old one gave up at the first cold snap) and a small coolant leak from the EGR valve to cyl head joint.

In the great scheme of things - I might leave well alone and wear a coat when driving!

[flyer 0712]

2.2 heaters take a long time to get realy hot...around 5/7.miles of running in cold weather...i was a bit peed off with mine as i could not understand why it would not get hot,,,,,,asked the question on here about it and Tunnie said to bleed the system properly again from scratch which i did and although it still takes a long time to get hot..it is a lot better and does heat up hotter now..Tunnie has a 2.2 and he and others on here say the same thing..2.2 do appear to take a while to get hot