Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please check the Forum Guidelines at the top of the Newbie section

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8   Go Down

Author Topic: Racism  (Read 11976 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

STEMO

  • Guest
Re: Racism
« Reply #75 on: 18 September 2019, 21:15:44 »

I'd also like to know how the poll on same sex marriage was conducted. The over 65's make up almost 19% of the population, I doubt they'd be doing internet questionnaires.
Logged

Viral_Jim

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Telford
  • Posts: 4246
    • Too many, mostly broken
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #76 on: 18 September 2019, 21:31:40 »

I notice you back up your same sex relationship with figures, but none for trans people. I disagree completely with that assertion, and invite you to substantiate it.

I'd also like to know how the poll on same sex marriage was conducted. The over 65's make up almost 19% of the population, I doubt they'd be doing internet questionnaires.

You're completely correct, I didn't, my humble apologies  :).

I'm referring to respondents to the only large-scale survey I could find on the subject (British Social Attitudes survey); circa 3000 respondents selected at random from UK households (so it would not include the homeless or those of us who lived in burger vans). The method of survey is to send a postal invitation, with the survey conducted by a face to face visit. You could argue that old people are less likely to invite someone into their homes, but you could also argue that those of working age/millenials would be less responsive to snail mail, more likely to live in shared housing and therefore not be invited to take part and less likely to find the time to sit down and chat. Answers are stratified by age, and you're right, the older generations are "less tolerant" of trans people; again, probably what you would expect.

In my view, my definition of vast majority compares favourably to the 52% that was recently described as a 'huge majority' in a brexit thread. Of course, you will probably disagree  :y

http://natcen.ac.uk/blog/how-do-british-people-feel-about-transphobia-and-transgender-issues
Quote
Transgender rights have noticeably become a more visible topic of debate in the media, for example recently around safe spaces for women.

So what do the public really think? Well, the latest BSA, for the first time, gives us an indication by reporting on a new set of questions.

Over 8 in 10 of Britons described ourselves as “not prejudiced at all” against transgender people, while 15% said they are a little prejudiced and 2% said they are very prejudiced.
Logged

Raeturbo

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • South Wales
  • Posts: 7275
    • Mv6 3.2 Mitsi Evo2. XJ8
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #77 on: 18 September 2019, 21:32:03 »

Mm, I disagree with the whole tirade it’s nonsense, and I can and will say and interpret things the way I want to, and say it out loud. I’ve said do what they want,  but keep it quiet it’s not right. If you’re  one of these people well fair enough, but as I said,  I do not go parading the streets brandishing my masculinity so I don’t expect any other types... homosexuals ect to be holding up the traffic. You’ve said it’s normal for animals well maybe it is but.... : I’ve said I respect their right to do what they want, Don’t question me on that I know what I’m saying. If I were to protest then I would be as bad as them. You have no argument.
« Last Edit: 18 September 2019, 21:34:28 by Raeturbo »
Logged
Laying a rubber road.

STEMO

  • Guest
Re: Racism
« Reply #78 on: 18 September 2019, 21:34:32 »

I notice you back up your same sex relationship with figures, but none for trans people. I disagree completely with that assertion, and invite you to substantiate it.

I'd also like to know how the poll on same sex marriage was conducted. The over 65's make up almost 19% of the population, I doubt they'd be doing internet questionnaires.

You're completely correct, I didn't, my humble apologies  :).

I'm referring to respondents to the only large-scale survey I could find on the subject (British Social Attitudes survey); circa 3000 respondents selected at random from UK households (so it would not include the homeless or those of us who lived in burger vans). The method of survey is to send a postal invitation, with the survey conducted by a face to face visit. You could argue that old people are less likely to invite someone into their homes, but you could also argue that those of working age/millenials would be less responsive to snail mail, more likely to live in shared housing and therefore not be invited to take part and less likely to find the time to sit down and chat. Answers are stratified by age, and you're right, the older generations are "less tolerant" of trans people; again, probably what you would expect.

In my view, my definition of vast majority compares favourably to the 52% that was recently described as a 'huge majority' in a brexit thread. Of course, you will probably disagree  :y

http://natcen.ac.uk/blog/how-do-british-people-feel-about-transphobia-and-transgender-issues
Quote
Transgender rights have noticeably become a more visible topic of debate in the media, for example recently around safe spaces for women.

So what do the public really think? Well, the latest BSA, for the first time, gives us an indication by reporting on a new set of questions.

Over 8 in 10 of Britons described ourselves as “not prejudiced at all” against transgender people, while 15% said they are a little prejudiced and 2% said they are very prejudiced.
Well...in my humble opinion.....if you ask the right people, you'll always get the answer you want.  ;D
Logged

Viral_Jim

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Telford
  • Posts: 4246
    • Too many, mostly broken
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #79 on: 18 September 2019, 21:54:08 »

Mm, I disagree with the whole tirade it’s nonsense.

Tirade: Noun a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation. Um, no, I'm not angry, nor am I accusing anyone of anything, I suppose I am being critical, but I'm only in pointing out logical flaws in what is being said.

As for nonsense, what is 'sense' depends entirely on your viewpoint, its entirely subjective. I'd imagine its pretty clear that my views don't align with yours, but then nor do the majority of the British people. Right and wrong are shaped by our laws, culture and collective sense of who we are as a people (collective being the important word). In that regard your views are again, in the minority, so objectively are neither right nor any kind of sense.

Outside of that frame of reference, you could talk about a Higher Power, but I like to avoid using fairy tales as a basis on which to discuss anything of significance.

I can and will say and interpret things the way I want to, and say it out loud....I’ve said I respect their right to do what they want, Don’t question on me on that I know what I’m saying

You certainly can say what you want, we have some limits on free speech in this country, but even then, in here its unlikely anyone will stop you.  ;) But if you put out your opinions in a public forum (either digital or in real life) you can't surely object when someone points out inconsistencies, or that the world doesn't work the way you want it to? To do so would probably be termed "snowflake" in these parts, except that seems to be a term levelled only at the young/millenials, not grandparents such as yourself. So maybe 'over-sensitive' would be better, no?  :y

I’ve said do what they want,  but keep it quiet it’s not right. If you’re  one of these people well fair enough, but as I said,  I do not go parading the streets brandishing my masculinity so I don’t expect any other types... homosexuals ect to be holding up the traffic.
But there-in lies the point, you don't object to 'parading' in general, you just want to enforce your (minority) viewpoint on an oppressed minority that you happen not to like.


Well...in my humble opinion.....if you ask the right people, you'll always get the answer you want.  ;D
Never a truer word spoken, but I would, on balance trust a large-scale report, that discloses its methods in obtaining a representative sample, over (and let's be fair to the OOF) an enclave of largely-like-minded people, the majority of which fit a set demographic, time of upbringing and share a common set of social influences. You are perhaps confusing this little corner of the internet with the real world?
« Last Edit: 18 September 2019, 21:56:56 by jimmy944 »
Logged

Raeturbo

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • South Wales
  • Posts: 7275
    • Mv6 3.2 Mitsi Evo2. XJ8
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #80 on: 18 September 2019, 22:17:53 »

First you were critical.
Second there were no flaws in what I said.
 Third that’s your opinion as far as I’m concerned I’m in the majority and make good sense.
Forth no I don’t think we’re going to align.
Fifth I don’t believe in fairy tales that’s your wrong assessment.
Sixth I’m not over sensitive, and know what I can say and when to say it.
Seventh who said I don’t object to parading? That’s your opinion, and I didn’t say I didn’t like the minority’s you mentioned and I’m certainly not trying to force my views on anybody if you’ve read my earlier posts you will see I’ve mentioned this many times. You’re way out mate!
Logged
Laying a rubber road.

STEMO

  • Guest
Re: Racism
« Reply #81 on: 18 September 2019, 22:27:35 »

Mm, I disagree with the whole tirade it’s nonsense.

Tirade: Noun a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation. Um, no, I'm not angry, nor am I accusing anyone of anything, I suppose I am being critical, but I'm only in pointing out logical flaws in what is being said.

As for nonsense, what is 'sense' depends entirely on your viewpoint, its entirely subjective. I'd imagine its pretty clear that my views don't align with yours, but then nor do the majority of the British people. Right and wrong are shaped by our laws, culture and collective sense of who we are as a people (collective being the important word). In that regard your views are again, in the minority, so objectively are neither right nor any kind of sense.

Outside of that frame of reference, you could talk about a Higher Power, but I like to avoid using fairy tales as a basis on which to discuss anything of significance.

I can and will say and interpret things the way I want to, and say it out loud....I’ve said I respect their right to do what they want, Don’t question on me on that I know what I’m saying

You certainly can say what you want, we have some limits on free speech in this country, but even then, in here its unlikely anyone will stop you.  ;) But if you put out your opinions in a public forum (either digital or in real life) you can't surely object when someone points out inconsistencies, or that the world doesn't work the way you want it to? To do so would probably be termed "snowflake" in these parts, except that seems to be a term levelled only at the young/millenials, not grandparents such as yourself. So maybe 'over-sensitive' would be better, no?  :y

I’ve said do what they want,  but keep it quiet it’s not right. If you’re  one of these people well fair enough, but as I said,  I do not go parading the streets brandishing my masculinity so I don’t expect any other types... homosexuals ect to be holding up the traffic.
But there-in lies the point, you don't object to 'parading' in general, you just want to enforce your (minority) viewpoint on an oppressed minority that you happen not to like.


Well...in my humble opinion.....if you ask the right people, you'll always get the answer you want.  ;D
Never a truer word spoken, but I would, on balance trust a large-scale report, that discloses its methods in obtaining a representative sample, over (and let's be fair to the OOF) an enclave of largely-like-minded people, the majority of which fit a set demographic, time of upbringing and share a common set of social influences. You are perhaps confusing this little corner of the internet with the real world?
That's a fair point..as far as OOF goes, but I don't live my whole life on OOF. I can only speak as I find, in the spheres I move in, in the part of the country I live in. And I would say that my views are fairly representative of that sphere. Metropolitan boroughs may consider themselves more forward thinking, but we don't live there, and most certainly don't subscribe to their views.
So, yes, we are having it forced down our throats, which was my original point.


Cue comments about flat caps and whippets. A minority group I'm proud to belong to, and just as pilloried as any pride march.
Logged

Raeturbo

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • South Wales
  • Posts: 7275
    • Mv6 3.2 Mitsi Evo2. XJ8
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #82 on: 18 September 2019, 22:30:45 »

Yes indeed we’re are all subject to ridicule, racism, injustice call it what you like but we just need to get on with it FFS.
Logged
Laying a rubber road.

Doctor Gollum

  • Get A Life!!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • In a colds and darks puddleses
  • Posts: 28089
  • If you can't eat them, join them...
    • Feetses.
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #83 on: 18 September 2019, 22:33:06 »

Logged
Onanists always think outside the box.

Viral_Jim

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Telford
  • Posts: 4246
    • Too many, mostly broken
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #84 on: 18 September 2019, 23:10:28 »

First you were critical.
Second there were no flaws in what I said.
To argue you respect someone's right to do something, but only if they aren't near you, your family or do it in public? And you don't see that as a flaw? Imagine if you placed that same restriction on heterosexual couples... there would be a big old outcry then.

Third that’s your opinion as far as I’m concerned I’m in the majority and make good sense.
No, I'm putting forward data, which clearly demonstrates you're in the minority, and what you believe/imagine doesn't have an impact on that. If you are actually in the majority of UK citizens, let's see some data. I haven't put a post in the thread detailing my opinion.

Fifth I don’t believe in fairy tales that’s your wrong assessment.
Sixth I’m not over sensitive, and know what I can say and when to say it.

Oh come on! At least read what I have written! I never made any kind of guess at what you believe. What I was saying (to be clear) is that 'white British' people, in the UK use one of a few branches of christianity (all of which are fictional in my view) as a lazy substitute for a moral compass.

Seventh who said I don’t object to parading? That’s your opinion, and I didn’t say I didn’t like the minority’s you mentioned and I’m certainly not trying to force my views on anybody if you’ve read my earlier posts you will see I’ve mentioned this many times.

You said that you don't choose to parade your masculinity, so you acknowledge you have the choice, but you don't want them to do the same with their sexual orientation/beliefs. You aren't trying to force your views on people, but you do want to suppress their right to publicly express who they are and the fact that they want equal treatment (a luxury which most of us take for granted). So you want to enforce the status quo of unequal treatment by making them sit idly by and wait for their rights to be handed to them, or indeed not ever get them.

You’re way out mate!
I am not now, nor as far as I know ever have been, your mate.  :-*


So, yes, we are having it forced down our throats, which was my original point.

Cue comments about flat caps and whippets. A minority group I'm proud to belong to, and just as pilloried as any pride march.

No, I totally agree, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that modern life encourages echo chambers, chances are good we live around people who think like we do, due to common origins, upbringing etc, we seek out common viewpoints on social media, buy newspapers that reflect our views of the world back to us. Your reality is whats real to you, in the same way that those who live in Islington think paying £19 for a de-constructed Nepalese yak butter latte is normal.

Where I take issue is when people take their sphere of what normal and try to apply it across the whole country/world to try and dictate how other people should and should not behave (note I am not accusing you of doing that, just making my position clear).
« Last Edit: 18 September 2019, 23:15:36 by jimmy944 »
Logged

Raeturbo

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • South Wales
  • Posts: 7275
    • Mv6 3.2 Mitsi Evo2. XJ8
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #85 on: 18 September 2019, 23:32:43 »

No, no flaw, surely you’ll agree heterosexual is the norm and what keeps us going as a species? Would you want to restrict that?
  I believe Your data is flawed.
 And you’re playing Racist/religion card?
Of course I have a choice, as do they, if they want to be treated equally behave as such. Besides I’m not trying to force my lifestyle on anyone,  however they and you it seems, obviously are.
As for being your mate I hold no malice toward you at all mate :y
Logged
Laying a rubber road.

Viral_Jim

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Telford
  • Posts: 4246
    • Too many, mostly broken
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #86 on: 19 September 2019, 00:27:06 »

No, no flaw, surely you’ll agree heterosexual is the norm and what keeps us going as a species? Would you want to restrict that?
Obviously population growth is dependent on heterosexual relationships (mostly), but its you who wants to restrict people's rights, not me.

  I believe Your data is flawed.

Then prove it, or show some empirical source that backs up your standpoint, belief is  irrelevant.  Believing something doesn't make it correct or even statistically valid (see: tooth fairy, Santa Claus, easter bunny, flat earth believers, homeopaths, wellness advocates).

And you’re playing Racist/religion card?
No, I'm stating a fact. A significant portion of UK law and "moral standards" is based on selectively adhering to doctrines of various bits of christianity. Again, this is not my opinion, its documented and you can follow its development from English Civil War times (and probably back further) to modern days.

Of course I have a choice, as do they, if they want to be treated equally behave as such. Besides I’m not trying to force my lifestyle on anyone,  however they and you it seems, obviously are.

You can only behave as equals if you have equal protection under law and by the social norms of the country in which you live. As a white heterosexual male in the UK, social norms dictate that I can walk around with my partner in more or less any area, anywhere in the country and I won't be subject to attack or abuse because of it, our social norms (generally) protect me. If I were gay, or trans and tried the same thing with my chosen partner, I'd be subjected to very different (frequently violent or abusive) treatment, so how can you expect me to behave the same? Until you experience it, which probably you never will, (on the assumption that you're a white middle aged/older heterosexual male who's unlikely to travel anywhere where there is anti-white racism) its hard to understand how it feels. I experienced non-violent racism in mainland china and that was ugly enough!

Going about your business, in public spaces is not 'forcing a lifestyle on someone'. In your view then, should Gay & Trans people accept the unequal treatment I outlined above, because you clearly don't agree with them demonstrating against their unequal treatment?

We return to the minorities' catch-22 I outlined in my first post.

« Last Edit: 19 September 2019, 00:37:18 by jimmy944 »
Logged

Raeturbo

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • South Wales
  • Posts: 7275
    • Mv6 3.2 Mitsi Evo2. XJ8
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #87 on: 19 September 2019, 00:47:18 »

Just because I don’t like and don’t agree with their behaviour doesn’t mean that I’m going to attack or abuse them what I’m saying is Fit in for fks sale. And quote me where I’ve advocated restricting their rights. My standpoint and belief is at least as valid as yours whatever bulls#it you or I quote. Christianity is again mostly the norm in this country Too isn’t it? All humans in Britain are protected by the law, not just the few you pick out.  You say “Uk law and moral standards” well that’s the law of this land is that something else you don’t agree with?
Logged
Laying a rubber road.

Viral_Jim

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Telford
  • Posts: 4246
    • Too many, mostly broken
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #88 on: 19 September 2019, 01:08:55 »

And quote me where I’ve advocated restricting their rights.

No, you're advocating that they don't do the only thing they can (legally) to try to get equal rights - which is march/protest. You're assuming they have equal protection under UK law, which they don't, and never have.

My standpoint and belief is at least as valid as yours whatever bulls#it you or I quote.
Belief, yes, if its personal to you, I won't argue with what's inside your head, but to state belief as fact eg. "I'm in the majority" when, on the available evidence you're not, isn't valid. No more than putting an astronomer and a flat earth believer together and saying both viewpoints are equally valid. One has facts behind it, the other is what exists inside someone's head. The two are not comparable.

All humans in Britain are protected by the law, not just the few you pick out.  You say “Uk law and moral standards” well that’s the law of this land is that something else you don’t agree with?

Again, you're wrong. Straight and Gay people are not treated the same under UK law. And. Never. Have. Been. You're the one who wants them to accept that they aren't equal and "just fit in" not me.

My personal belief (and I accept its apparently a minority view in these parts) is that people should be treated the same under the law regardless of their race, gender, or sexual orientation and don't agree with any area of law that discriminates against people on those characteristics.
Logged

Lizzie Zoom

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • South
  • Posts: 7370
    • Omega 3.2 V6 ELITE 2003
    • View Profile
Re: Racism
« Reply #89 on: 19 September 2019, 01:17:46 »

........which I am duty bound by the police to advise on and protect.........

(Bear with me, I am on the right thread)   ;D

Having been run ragged by my elderly disabled parents for the past two years, dealing with their end of life carers etc, I was at the end of my tether both physically and emotionally. I had just got to the stage where I thought it would be easier to end my own life to escape the daily torture when I read the above comment.
It made me laugh  ;D ;D  and snapped me out of ending it. I should be alright for a couple of weeks with this to amuse me.  :y  Please keep the gags coming Lizzie, you may just save my life.  ::) :)

Anyway, back on topic, which has strayed from racism to homophobic accusations somehow.  :-\

I am very pleased I amused you, and you didn't take your life as that would be a waste ;)

Rather like all those who do take their lives, from the young to not so young because they are "different" and feel like outcasts, with insulting behaviour and threats made against them. That is something I am trying in my little part to change so those groups of people can safely "come out", and they know the police, with my support as a qualified advisor in this and other fields, can correctly assist them, if necessary by way of legal action against those small minded individuals who think they have the right to attack them, pushing those highly vulnerable people to the edge.

That is not so funny is it ::) ::) ;)
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.04 seconds with 21 queries.