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Author Topic: Plumbing/DHW question.  (Read 433 times)

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Bigron

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Plumbing/DHW question.
« on: 10 April 2018, 16:39:43 »

I have a basic hot water system, DHW tank plus immersion heater, which obviosly has quite low pressure for an upstairs bathroom shower. That's fine for me, as I prefer a good long soak in the bath and the pressure is good enough for the shower fitting on the bath taps for hair washing, but 'er indoors likes a shower and the standing-up height of this fitting is woefully inadequate.
Is it possible to use a pump of some sort to boost the pressure, especially as the cold water is mains fed, and therefore quite high pressure?

TIA.
Ron.
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Andy B

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #1 on: 10 April 2018, 16:44:48 »

how about an electric shower?  :-\
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RossPhim

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #2 on: 10 April 2018, 16:45:19 »

Is it possible to use a pump of some sort to boost the pressure, especially as the cold water is mains fed, and therefore quite high pressure?
TIA.
Ron.

Have you thought about a power shower instead?

Edit : I must type faster!  ;)
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Bigron

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #3 on: 10 April 2018, 16:55:23 »

Electric shower = rewiring, new consumer unit, re-tiling, replumbing and lots of disruption!

Ron.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #4 on: 10 April 2018, 17:00:41 »

Yes, there are plenty of options, but you'll need to know the difference between Essex Flanges, Surrey Flanges and Warix Flanges first, so some research to do. ;)

In short, you can indeed pump the output of your hot water tank into a shower mixer using a separate pump, or you can buy shower units with a built-in pump. If the only option for cold water is direct from the mains do check that they will handle the pressure differential that will result.

Failing that, if the mains pressure is sufficiently high, you might get an improvement by fitting an electrically heated shower. You'll need to run it from a dedicated radial circuit from the consumer unit, and the more kilowatts you can throw at it, the better the flow rate will be.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #5 on: 10 April 2018, 17:05:22 »

Electric shower = rewiring, new consumer unit, re-tiling, replumbing and lots of disruption!

Ron.

In my time Ron I have fitted a number of electric showers and providing your consumer unit is up to date with spare fuse space and load capacity it is straightforward enough, if you plan your cable and pipe routes carefully.

I have also fitted mixer showers and that can involve far more work.  Lifting the tank in the loft (if you have one) to increase the pressure, plus running both a hot and cold water supply, taken as near as possible to the hot water feed pipe from the tank (if there is one) to gain the correct pressure levels, can mean lifting floorboards so can involve far more work than fitting an electric shower. ;)
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Bigron

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #6 on: 10 April 2018, 17:14:27 »

Kevin, all this talk about flanges sounds quite rude! Boosting the output from the DHW cylinder sounds like a good plan, as there is room (and mains power) in the airing cupboard. Just an inline pump, yes?
Lizzie, you paint a frightening picture; I do not want to crawl into my cramped loft and lift the tank - not much height to raise it to, either.

Thanks,
Ron.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #7 on: 10 April 2018, 17:17:28 »

Kevin, all this talk about flanges sounds quite rude! Boosting the output from the DHW cylinder sounds like a good plan, as there is room (and mains power) in the airing cupboard. Just an inline pump, yes?
Lizzie, you paint a frightening picture; I do not want to crawl into my cramped loft and lift the tank - not much height to raise it to, either.

Thanks,
Ron.

Whimp!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-* :-* ;)
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Entwood

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #8 on: 10 April 2018, 17:18:35 »

Electric shower = rewiring, new consumer unit, re-tiling, replumbing and lots of disruption!

Ron.

In my time Ron I have fitted a number of electric showers and providing your consumer unit is up to date with spare fuse space and load capacity it is straightforward enough, if you plan your cable and pipe routes carefully.

I have also fitted mixer showers and that can involve far more work.  Lifting the tank in the loft (if you have one) to increase the pressure, plus running both a hot and cold water supply, taken as near as possible to the hot water feed pipe from the tank (if there is one) to gain the correct pressure levels, can mean lifting floorboards so can involve far more work than fitting an electric shower. ;)

... but is well worth doing :)  I now have a power shower with both hot and cold pumped through a thermostatic mixer to a "deluge" head. As the DHW runs quite hot, and the cold water supply is of poor pressure (which is why an electric shower has always been useless), I also fitted an additional cold water tank in the loft. No danger of running out of water even if 4 folks shower in a short time .. :)

Wish I'd done it years ago .. :)
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TD

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #9 on: 10 April 2018, 17:18:44 »

I lived in a bungalow once, that the hot water pressure was dismal....so
I had a pump fitted to the flow from the hot water tank so every hot tap was pumped...and
had a power shower fitted with the feeds being taken from the hot in between the flow from the hot water tank and the pump and the cold feed being taken from the cold feed to the hot water tank.
I also had to have a 'coffin' cold water tank fitted so it had enough water to supply the hot water tank and the cold for the shower.....tho the pump for the power shower was 3bar.....and used to empty the hot water tank in 10 mins  ::) but the shower was amazing  :y
« Last Edit: 10 April 2018, 17:22:49 by TD »
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Bigron

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #10 on: 10 April 2018, 17:26:24 »

Kevin, all this talk about flanges sounds quite rude! Boosting the output from the DHW cylinder sounds like a good plan, as there is room (and mains power) in the airing cupboard. Just an inline pump, yes?
Lizzie, you paint a frightening picture; I do not want to crawl into my cramped loft and lift the tank - not much height to raise it to, either.

Thanks,
Ron.

Whimp!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-* :-* ;)

Not a wimp, Lizzie - just a fat bastard that doesn't want to get stuck!  :-[ :-[ :-[

Ron.
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Bigron

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #11 on: 10 April 2018, 17:29:43 »

Er, NO comments about eating loo much honey, please1

Ron.
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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #12 on: 10 April 2018, 17:36:31 »

Yes, there are plenty of options, but you'll need to know the difference between Essex Flanges, Surrey Flanges and Warix Flanges first, so some research to do. ;)

This is Lord Opti's department.  So no need for research, as I'm sure he'll be along soon with some sage advice!  :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #13 on: 10 April 2018, 17:42:22 »

Kevin, all this talk about flanges sounds quite rude! Boosting the output from the DHW cylinder sounds like a good plan, as there is room (and mains power) in the airing cupboard. Just an inline pump, yes?
Lizzie, you paint a frightening picture; I do not want to crawl into my cramped loft and lift the tank - not much height to raise it to, either.

Thanks,
Ron.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D :y

Whimp!! ::) ::) ::) ::)



Not a wimp, Lizzie - just a fat bastard that doesn't want to get stuck!  :-[ :-[ :-[

Ron.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-* :-* ;)
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jimmy944

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Re: Plumbing/DHW question.
« Reply #14 on: 10 April 2018, 18:01:35 »

I had a similar issue in our place, 1 mains (combi boiler) fed shower and one electric. However, the cold into the house is only 15mm. So, barely good enough to run the mains shower alone.

My solution was to fit a loft tank and one of these (or very similar):
Salamander pump

Works a treat and powers up the electric shower with good pressure. I then half closed the isolating valve that fills the tank, so it only drip feeds as the tank empties. Result: you can now run both showers at once with decent pressure :). Fitting the same on your tank outflow should cure your issues.  :y

In terms of connections, this is 2x22mm push fittings and can be wired off to a three pin plug. You will need a negative rather than positive head pump as (most likely) the pressure/flow from your tank won't be enough to trigger a +ve head pump. In my case it would only trigger if I turned on both the shower and another tap - useless.

So far my salamander pump has been working just fine for about 9 months, you can hear it when its on, but I wouldn't say its noisy.

Hope this is helpful.
« Last Edit: 10 April 2018, 18:06:15 by jimmy944 »
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