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[Sir Tigger KC]

The Maybot is in Africa which has huge potential for economic growth. 

Yet I find it incredible that this is the first time that a British PM has visited sub Saharan Africa since David Cameron went to Nelson Mandela's memorial service in 2013 and the first time a British PM has visited Kenya (Africa's 3rd biggest economy and the power house of East Africa) since Margaret Thatcher in 1988! 

There have been plenty of trade missions to the Middle and Far East yet it seems our masters have neglected Africa.  A continent full of natural resources, agricultural potential, and inventive people with a variety of rich and vibrant cultures.    France's Macron has visited twice in the short time he has been President and the Chinese have been investing heavily across the continent for 15 years or so. 

So why is this? 

Is it some sort of post colonial guilt syndrome that infests the Civil Service?    or have we just been gazing at our EU naval? 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Africa.....a continent devoid of political corruption.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Theresa will need to 'grease the palms' of any number of overweight dictators if she wants a good trade deal.

[STEMO]

Just watched her 'dancing' in front of a group of children. I think I actually went pink. 

[Doctor Gollum]

France is still very much a colonial power with much influence in the francophile world so I would have been surprised if Macon didn't go once a year

As for the Chinese, they are so desperate for materials that they will rebuild the entire globe just to gain access to the ground. Regardless of cost, fiscal or physical...

[dave the builder]

Africa.....a continent devoid of political corruption.

hope she has plenty of pocket change to bribe her way through all the road blocks every few miles 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Africa.....a continent devoid of political corruption.

hope she has plenty of pocket change to bribe her way through all the road blocks every few miles 

....and I think that sums up nicely the problem with Africa, along with generally high crime rates   

[Varche]

Is it some sort of post colonial guilt syndrome that infests the Civil Service?    or have we just been gazing at our EU naval?


gazing at our EU naval methinks.


So much we could have been doing in Africa. I was very surprised the other day to find the Italians sell tinned tomatoes to some African countries!

[dave the builder]

So much we could have been doing in Africa. I was very surprised the other day to find the Italians sell tinned tomatoes to some African countries!

you can buy fray bentos tinned pies and cadbury fingers at the petrol station at the traffic lights in  gambia 

[Sir Tigger KC]

So judging by the above comments people see Africa as a cesspit of poverty, crime and corruption. 

These attitudes probably exist in the corridors of Whitehall and across the boardrooms of the UK (especially from those who have never visited), which probably answers my question. 

Poverty, crime and corruption exist across the continent of course, but the potential is enormous and we should have been tapping into that potential long before now!     

[Varche]

So much we could have been doing in Africa. I was very surprised the other day to find the Italians sell tinned tomatoes to some African countries!

you can buy fray bentos tinned pies and cadbury fingers at the petrol station at the traffic lights in  gambia 

But the point is stuff from Africa is generally expected to be cheaper. All you need to grow tomatoes is sun(warmth) and water. How can the Italians with higher labour costs sell cheaper in Africa after having transported too. Dumping springs to mind. Fray Bentos tinned pies and Cadbury fingers are niche products. ( if you look hard enough you can even buy them in Spain at a price) 

[aaronjb]

Poverty, crime and corruption exist across the continent of course, but the potential is enormous and we should have been tapping into that potential long before now!     

We could have started by tapping one into Mugabe's dome, a long time ago.

[dave the builder]

But in the uk, the only time i had to bribe my way past a roadblock was the M6 toll and some bridge in south wales
all the other roads i've drove on ,i paid the bribe in advance (road tax) 
 I was talking about actual road blocks in africa
not political ones 
but,with enough "pocket change" i'm sure even political roadblocks could be passed   

[aaronjb]

I was talking about actual road blocks in africa

I have (white, Zim) friends who talk about those kinds of road blocks. Manned by the military. The kind they wouldn't let their daughters try to pass through without (armed) male family escort.

[dave the builder]

So much we could have been doing in Africa. I was very surprised the other day to find the Italians sell tinned tomatoes to some African countries!

you can buy fray bentos tinned pies and cadbury fingers at the petrol station at the traffic lights in  gambia 

But the point is stuff from Africa is generally expected to be cheaper. All you need to grow tomatoes is sun(warmth) and water. How can the Italians with higher labour costs sell cheaper in Africa after having transported too. Dumping springs to mind. Fray Bentos tinned pies and Cadbury fingers are niche products. ( if you look hard enough you can even buy them in Spain at a price)

I was just being a facetious pr**k 
if the Italian's have too many tomatoes ,why not sell them to africa
if there is a market and Africa is not geared up to grow tomatoes .
large areas of land and sun a plenty would be good for bio diesel production or solar farms
i'm more shocked that we buy potatoes from Egypt 
even I can grow spuds in Derbyshire   

[dave the builder]

I was talking about actual road blocks in africa

I have (white, Zim) friends who talk about those kinds of road blocks. Manned by the military. The kind they wouldn't let their daughters try to pass through without (armed) male family escort.

Indeed , on my travels beyond the ice wall at the edge of the earth ,i've seen many (not just military ) there's police, military, military police ,land owners, and locals who will dig a trench in the road ,put some logs on it ,and call it a bridge 

in order to do any trade with somewhere, you need to have access in and out 

[Kevin Wood]

If I could have bribed the traffic cops in Port Elizabeth to take cash for my speeding fine instead of launching me into the bureaucratic nightmare that they did, all for the sake of £20 I would have done, but they were having none of it.

[tunnie]

Poverty, crime and corruption exist across the continent of course, but the potential is enormous and we should have been tapping into that potential long before now!     

We could have started by tapping one into Mugabe's dome, a long time ago.

If the country had any significant oil, suspect that would have happened. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Poverty, crime and corruption exist across the continent of course, but the potential is enormous and we should have been tapping into that potential long before now!     

We could have started by tapping one into Mugabe's dome, a long time ago.

If the country had any significant oil, suspect that would have happened. 

You say that...

http://www.oilreviewafrica.com/downstream/downstream/interpose-holdings-acquires-stake-in-africa-s-oil-and-gas-prospect

[Sir Tigger KC]

Africa is not geared up to grow tomatoes....

Go into many of the markets in East Africa and the tables are groaning with fantastic fresh produce including tomatoes!     People selling fresh home grown produce by the roadside is also a common sight. 

The EU external common tariff keeps much of it away from our dinner tables, although I've bought runner and french beans from Kenya in Tesco at a £1 a bag. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

No point on trade missions to Africa in the last few decades as we couldn't make trade deals. Our masters in Brussels did it on our behalf.

[Sir Tigger KC]

No point on trade missions to Africa in the last few decades as we couldn't make trade deals. Our masters in Brussels did it on our behalf.

There has been no reason why we couldn't have gone there to drum up trade for the UK within the existing EU structure. 

After all our masters in Brussels didn't stop UK trade missions to the Middle and Far East, any more than they have prevented the French, Germans or Italians from doing business outside the EU. 

After BREXIT though the difference is that we will be able to structure the terms of trade to suit the UK and it's bi-lateral partners, rather than a one size fits 28 deal. 

[STEMO]

That's providing that some countries don't tell us to get f**ked. We're not the most popular country in the world.
I like the way people talk about Africa as if it's a country. You don't trade with Africa, you trade with 54 different countries, all as different as the countries in Europe.

[LC0112G]

Africa is not geared up to grow tomatoes....

Go into many of the markets in East Africa and the tables are groaning with fantastic fresh produce including tomatoes!     People selling fresh home grown produce by the roadside is also a common sight. 

The EU external common tariff keeps much of it away from our dinner tables, although I've bought runner and french beans from Kenya in Tesco at a £1 a bag. 

The vast majority of African countries currently enjoy duty, tariff and quota free access to the EU single market - including the UK.

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2017/november/tradoc_156399.pdf

Post BREXIT, presumably we'll be free to impose our own (WTO) rules, and restrict African imports by imposing tariffs to protect less efficient/more expensive UK farmers. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Not on all products though Malcolm, especially where there are competing EU producers, Spanish orange growers for example are protected by tariff.  So yes post BREXIT maybe oranges will become cheaper in the UK as we have no orange farmers to protect.    Coffee is another example.  Coffee beans don't attract tariff, but I believe that the tariff on processed coffee is particularly steep.

The Economic Partnership Agreements are two way streets where the African countries have to open their markets to EU producers in return for access to the EU.  This can mean that African farmers are competing in their own market place with goods from European subsidised mass producers.  It's probably doubtful whether a Kenyan chicken farmer could compete with a subsidised Polish chicken farmer who produces on a much bigger scale. 

The EU can be pretty heavy handed as well.  At the conclusion of talks that took 10 years between the EU and the East African Community, Kenya refused to sign the deal, so the EU imposed tariffs of between 8.5% and 30% on Kenyan cut flowers, coffee, tea and tinned pineapple.  Kenya signed the deal a few weeks later. 

https://www.dw.com/en/duty-free-under-duress-kenyas-trade-with-the-eu/a-18503184