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Author Topic: Ferry lorry tipping over!  (Read 5487 times)

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Varche

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Ferry lorry tipping over!
« on: 18 December 2018, 21:21:01 »

Gulp.

Saw the Irish sea crossing to Cairnryan had tossed lorries onto their sides.

I had been planning on our next visit to England to have a mini trip to Ireland via Wales Holyhead and then back via Cairnryan.  I am not a great fan of ships - Calais Dover is plenty.

Is this tossing of vehicles normal and who pays for the repairs? ;D  I thought they strapped vehicles down For rough crossings?

Anyone regularly use these two crossings?  Are the ferries bigger and more stable than the Dover Calais ones?  Are the fastest ferries the best even if possibly more money?
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #1 on: 18 December 2018, 22:09:00 »

Irish Ferries have form for not chaining stuff down properly...

I wonder if my old black Elite made it over to Ireland in one piece... The chap collected it Easter Sunday 2016... Plenty of vids on You tube of the crossing and aftermath... Several hours in the Irish sea trying to survive a hurricane  ;D
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #2 on: 19 December 2018, 00:09:52 »

When the Irish sea decides to get rough, it gets really rough. I well remember one overnight crossing Belfast - Liverpool when I had several pints and then it got stormy. I was trying to get some kip lying in a corridor with rivers of vomit running up and down it.  ;D
I haven't been by sea for a long time, but last time was cairnryan - Belfast on some big superfast thing which shot huge plumes of water out the back. Iirc it only took an hour and a half, so no matter how rough it gets, you wont be on there long.
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #3 on: 19 December 2018, 00:32:32 »

When the Irish sea decides to get rough, it gets really rough. I well remember one overnight crossing Belfast - Liverpool when I had several pints and then it got stormy. I was trying to get some kip lying in a corridor with rivers of vomit running up and down it.  ;D
I haven't been by sea for a long time, but last time was cairnryan - Belfast on some big superfast thing which shot huge plumes of water out the back. Iirc it only took an hour and a half, so no matter how rough it gets, you wont be on there long.
Those seacat things don't do rough particularly well. One of the first crossings from Weymouth or Poole to Guernsey was during a late summer storm... Apparently it spent more time out of the water than on it, one passenger suffered a heart attack and several of the crew quit when it finally arrived in St Peter Port :D
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #5 on: 19 December 2018, 04:52:54 »

I've did the Fishhgurd / Rosslare and the old Swansea /Cork crossings many times over the years.
I have had some rough trips but never seen damage as described however I have read òf such crossings.
The Irish seas are prone to extreme weather though  ,indeed if you could only hear the gale presently keeping me awake........It's possible that you could be unlucky at this time of year.
I'd read the small print on my ticket though . ::)
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #6 on: 19 December 2018, 07:13:31 »

 Bloke I knew worked on P&O ferries from Scotland to Ireland
He was on one crossing that took 23 hours due to the weather
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #7 on: 19 December 2018, 09:02:09 »

Those seacat things don't do rough particularly well. One of the first crossings from Weymouth or Poole to Guernsey was during a late summer storm... Apparently it spent more time out of the water than on it, one passenger suffered a heart attack and several of the crew quit when it finally arrived in St Peter Port :D

I've been on one when it was just shy of being cancelled - Harwich to Hoek van Holland.. it felt like one side of it was going up and down about 20' while the other side remained stationary. Fortunately for me I don't get seasick - most people around me didn't seem so fortunate and even I'll admit it's quite hard to hang on to your lunch when the smell of vomit is wafting past you ;D

Iirc it only took an hour and a half, so no matter how rough it gets, you wont be on there long.

Many years ago, coming back from Dublin, our Dublin->Liverpool cat was cancelled due to high winds.. so we spent hours on the slow boat to Holyhead instead, and then had a much longer drive back to York. I may have had a few "long blinks" on the motorway :-\ but I was young and foolish.. and driving a battered Nissan Bluebird.
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #8 on: 19 December 2018, 10:03:23 »

I've done Holyhead to Dún Laoghaire plenty of times, on both the "fast cat" and conventional ferry. It's never been exactly calm and on a few occasions there has been the sound of smashing crockery in the kitchen. Best to use the loo all you want before you set sail, too, as they do tend to fill with vomit readily..  ;D

Fortunately, I've always taken the Westfield, and it takes a fair bit to tip that over. ;D
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Varche

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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #9 on: 19 December 2018, 11:15:54 »

If your vehicle is damaged bysay a lorry falling on it or in the Westfields case , a car, who pays for the repairs? I presume the Ferry company but.... maybe the small print says user beware.?

Fastcat sounds good.  Cant wait till a tunnel is built and camt do Europe without Ireland. Dont want to fly and hire.
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #10 on: 19 December 2018, 11:49:42 »

If your vehicle is damaged bysay a lorry falling on it or in the Westfields case , a car, who pays for the repairs? I presume the Ferry company but.... maybe the small print says user beware.?

Well, there is that..

Quote
Fastcat sounds good.  Cant wait till a tunnel is built and camt do Europe without Ireland. Dont want to fly and hire.

I think you feel the swell a bit more on the fast cat, but it's over quicker, and I'm not sure they operate in the heaviest seas. They may even be summer months only. IIRC the one that does Portsmouth to Cherbourg gets relocated to New Zealand in the winter. :(
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aaronjb

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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #11 on: 19 December 2018, 13:11:19 »

I think you feel the swell a bit more on the fast cat, but it's over quicker, and I'm not sure they operate in the heaviest seas. They may even be summer months only. IIRC the one that does Portsmouth to Cherbourg gets relocated to New Zealand in the winter. :(

I bet that's a fun journey on a Cat! ;D
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #12 on: 19 December 2018, 15:15:30 »

I think you feel the swell a bit more on the fast cat, but it's over quicker, and I'm not sure they operate in the heaviest seas. They may even be summer months only. IIRC the one that does Portsmouth to Cherbourg gets relocated to New Zealand in the winter. :(

I bet that's a fun journey on a Cat! ;D

Yep, nice little jolly for the crew, I should think. I wonder how many fuel stops it needs? ;D
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #13 on: 19 December 2018, 16:50:59 »

I think you feel the swell a bit more on the fast cat, but it's over quicker, and I'm not sure they operate in the heaviest seas. They may even be summer months only. IIRC the one that does Portsmouth to Cherbourg gets relocated to New Zealand in the winter. :(

I bet that's a fun journey on a Cat! ;D

Yep, nice little jolly for the crew, I should think. I wonder how many fuel stops it needs? ;D
Might be for maintenance... As they're built over there.

Not sure re fuel, one of the first Hoverspeed (remember them) did the Blue Ribband run as part of its delivery trip...
https://www.niferry.co.uk/hsc-hoverspeed-great-britain-incat-025/ 8)
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #14 on: 19 December 2018, 19:40:11 »

On all the crossing I've done dover-calais,drive onto truck deck, handbrake on,lock it and leave.  The only thing chained down were the
-un- accompanied trailers, everything else wasn't, reason being takes to long to put 4 chains on to every truck... Would think the Irish crossing is the same.
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #15 on: 20 December 2018, 08:24:56 »

Sea Cat is awful! Imagine the pitching and rolling of a single hulled ship, doubled up as one hull tries to pitch while the other rolls! Also very little deck to get on into the open air away from the smell of puke.

Having done alot of offshore yachting I've seen all sorts of people struggle to hold their lunch in varying conditions (the party in the port the night before is sometimes the overriding factor!!) and the thing that makes me rough is the smell of it.

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aaronjb

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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #16 on: 20 December 2018, 08:54:12 »

Sea Cat is awful! Imagine the pitching and rolling of a single hulled ship, doubled up as one hull tries to pitch while the other rolls! Also very little deck to get on into the open air away from the smell of puke.

My memory is of the small rear deck having a mountain of puke in the corner.. I didn't even know puke could mound up like that. Hurk. ;D
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #17 on: 20 December 2018, 10:26:52 »

I think you feel the swell a bit more on the fast cat, but it's over quicker, and I'm not sure they operate in the heaviest seas. They may even be summer months only. IIRC the one that does Portsmouth to Cherbourg gets relocated to New Zealand in the winter. :(

I bet that's a fun journey on a Cat! ;D

Yep, nice little jolly for the crew, I should think. I wonder how many fuel stops it needs? ;D
Might be for maintenance... As they're built over there.

Not sure re fuel, one of the first Hoverspeed (remember them) did the Blue Ribband run as part of its delivery trip...
https://www.niferry.co.uk/hsc-hoverspeed-great-britain-incat-025/ 8)

Could be that too. I was talking to one of the crew outside the bridge on one crossing that was a bit rough. He intimated that the ship could cope with any sea condition mother nature could throw at it, and only needed to throttle back for the very worst conditions, but that winter crossings were problematic due to limitations of the "self-loading freight". ;D
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #18 on: 20 December 2018, 17:00:08 »

Seacats, or at least the ones from 10-15yrs ago do seem to have an ability to make people chuck over the side...    ...which invariably blows back.

As aaronjb says, the smell (and sight of someone elses breakfast) all over you can turn a hardened sea farer into a chunder factory.
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #19 on: 20 December 2018, 21:16:41 »

Those seacat things don't do rough particularly well. One of the first crossings from Weymouth or Poole to Guernsey was during a late summer storm..........

We've done the SeaCat from Poole to Jersey a few times and when it's rough you can stand on top deck, lean forwards or backwards in to the wind at over 45 degrees and not fall over.  :D
If you've got a hood up, don't turn in to the wind as it nearly breaks your neck.  ;D
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #20 on: 21 December 2018, 12:16:19 »

On all the crossing I've done dover-calais,drive onto truck deck, handbrake on,lock it and leave.  The only thing chained down were the
-un- accompanied trailers, everything else wasn't, reason being takes to long to put 4 chains on to every truck... Would think the Irish crossing is the same.

If the crossing is forecast to be rough the crew will often be chaining whilst you’re upstairs enjoying your breakfast  ;)
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #21 on: 21 December 2018, 12:22:47 »

Four chains to every truck costs less in man hours and chains than having to unload with a telehandler and a JCB ::)
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #22 on: 21 December 2018, 13:03:54 »

Ive taken a truck Holyhead - Dublin or  Cairnryan - Larne probably a hundred times. Winter storms can certainly liven up what is otherwise a dull interlude although standing on the dock watching a ferry struggling to dock can be worrying.

The irish cat (Jonathon Swift IIRC) has earnt he nickname the Olympic Flame, as in the winter it does not go out very often. I believe the the Stena cat is now an office block in Turkey as its Omega-esque thirst made it unviable.

As I understand it the amount of chaining down has various stages dependant on what the weather forecast is, with the most common variant being 'block' chaining where only the trucks on the perimeter of a block get lashed and those in the middle are free to rattle around if Neptune kicks off. What I've never fully understood is this. It's all very well lashing down before departure, but after an hour of rocking from side to side the suspension will lose a lot of air and might of dropped three inches. Do they go round tightening the chains or let them go slack?

Turners nearly lost a tanker out the back of a ferry on the Cairnryan crossing a few years back. Seems the muppet didnt put the brake on and it was 'lashed' to a continuous rail alongside. As they cleared port the captain opened the taps and back she rolled. Took out the loading door and the only thing keeping it out of the sea was the cab wedging against the roof.

Steve
 

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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #23 on: 21 December 2018, 14:11:34 »


As I understand it the amount of chaining down has various stages dependant on what the weather forecast is, with the most common variant being 'block' chaining where only the trucks on the perimeter of a block get lashed and those in the middle are free to rattle around if Neptune kicks off. What I've never fully understood is this. It's all very well lashing down before departure, but after an hour of rocking from side to side the suspension will lose a lot of air and might of dropped three inches. Do they go round tightening the chains or let them go slack?



If it's done in the same way as lashing to a vehicle, the wheels are secured not the body.
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #24 on: 21 December 2018, 16:55:36 »

Trucks are chained down from the D rings/fixed eyes around the chassis  ;)

Cross chaining limits the amount of movement possible. And yes, checking the load restraints during the passage is the responsibility of the load master and ultimately the Ships Master ie the Captain...
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #25 on: 22 December 2018, 08:50:33 »

Although I have a great fascination for[mainly war]ships from all ages going by water is the one form of transport I can't abide.I even felt queasy once on a pleasure boat ride on the river Ouse in York ::) :-X
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #26 on: 23 December 2018, 14:49:03 »

On all the crossing I've done dover-calais,drive onto truck deck, handbrake on,lock it and leave.  The only thing chained down were the
-un- accompanied trailers, everything else wasn't, reason being takes to long to put 4 chains on to every truck... Would think the Irish crossing is the same.

If the crossing is forecast to be rough the crew will often be chaining whilst you’re upstairs enjoying your breakfast  ;)
.


No they don't... because to chain a truck down correctly, the air needs to be dumped from the suspension, that's from unit and trailer  Also with 200 plus trucks on the spirt, when you board you would see them with chains and binders at the ready. :-X
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #27 on: 24 December 2018, 00:15:30 »

On all the crossing I've done dover-calais,drive onto truck deck, handbrake on,lock it and leave.  The only thing chained down were the
-un- accompanied trailers, everything else wasn't, reason being takes to long to put 4 chains on to every truck... Would think the Irish crossing is the same.

If the crossing is forecast to be rough the crew will often be chaining whilst you’re upstairs enjoying your breakfast  ;)
.


No they don't... because to chain a truck down correctly, the air needs to be dumped from the suspension, that's from unit and trailer  Also with 200 plus trucks on the spirt, when you board you would see them with chains and binders at the ready. :-X

Dover-Calais is rarely bad enough to justify chains 😉

And I’ve seen them chaining Dover-Dunkirk before everyone is even boarded so they definitely do when needed
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #28 on: 24 December 2018, 14:52:28 »

I think you feel the swell a bit more on the fast cat, but it's over quicker, and I'm not sure they operate in the heaviest seas. They may even be summer months only. IIRC the one that does Portsmouth to Cherbourg gets relocated to New Zealand in the winter. :(

I bet that's a fun journey on a Cat! ;D

Been on that a few times on that route but always in calm summer weather. Have used the slow boat (including the original small P&O ones) in all weathers with force 11 being the strongest where the ferry we were mean't to catch grounding in the Portsmouth harbour channel due to the bad weather, so ended up on the longer trip & drive from Le Havre. The ship also took an extra 2 hours to complete the journey due to the weather conditions. Fortunately, I and my family don't suffer from sea sickness. My standing joke after a rough night crossing was that at least I won't have to queue for my onboard full English breakfast, where there were never many looking for that. :y :y :y
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #29 on: 25 December 2018, 10:22:26 »

On all the crossing I've done dover-calais,drive onto truck deck, handbrake on,lock it and leave.  The only thing chained down were the
-un- accompanied trailers, everything else wasn't, reason being takes to long to put 4 chains on to every truck... Would think the Irish crossing is the same.

If the crossing is forecast to be rough the crew will often be chaining whilst you’re upstairs enjoying your breakfast  ;)
.


No they don't... because to chain a truck down correctly, the air needs to be dumped from the suspension, that's from unit and trailer  Also with 200 plus trucks on the spirt, when you board you would see them with chains and binders at the ready. :-X

Whilst I expected this to be the case when I first started doing the trips, the thing is I've never seen it done on any of my crossings, whether first on, last on or anywhere inbetween. Nor have I returned to the vehicle deck and found unit or trailer down to the stops. Is there a way to dump the air out of a locked unit?
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #30 on: 25 December 2018, 12:21:06 »

Pull the drain valves :-X

Also trailer air usually has manual controls on it...
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #31 on: 25 December 2018, 18:40:02 »

Pull the drain valves :-X

Also trailer air usually has manual controls on it...


Draining tanks doesn't empty the bags,, all trucks on air have a ferry setting which dumps air from unit, trailer would use lowering valve.
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #32 on: 25 December 2018, 18:47:41 »

On all the crossing I've done dover-calais,drive onto truck deck, handbrake on,lock it and leave.  The only thing chained down were the
-un- accompanied trailers, everything else wasn't, reason being takes to long to put 4 chains on to every truck... Would think the Irish crossing is the same.

If the crossing is forecast to be rough the crew will often be chaining whilst you’re upstairs enjoying your breakfast  ;)
.


No they don't... because to chain a truck down correctly, the air needs to be dumped from the suspension, that's from unit and trailer  Also with 200 plus trucks on the spirt, when you board you would see them with chains and binders at the ready. :-X

Dover-Calais is rarely bad enough to justify chains 😉

And I’ve seen them chaining Dover-Dunkirk before everyone is even boarded so they definitely do when needed
.

Dover Dunkirk is 20 minutes longer,, never been chained, Newhaven-deippe never chained,. I know Portsmouth-santander/Bilbao will chain if the weather is forecast adverse. All unaccompanied freight is chained(solo trailers) and there's a few on the Dunkirk boat (big cold store on docks). :)
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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #33 on: 26 December 2018, 21:17:19 »

Pull the drain valves :-X

Also trailer air usually has manual controls on it...


Draining tanks doesn't empty the bags,, all trucks on air have a ferry setting which dumps air from unit, trailer would use lowering valve.

And how long have you got?
Some old Volvo's we used (or might of been Scanias) had a ferry setting but few knew it was there and nobody I know ever used it.
All current air suspension units can have the back end lowered or raised from inside, but it just isnt done IME.

Maybe that's why this thread got started. In any case I'm sure the lashings are there more for positional stability rather than stopping them rolling, which in 'normal' storm conditions I guess is more likely caused by unstable loading.

Doesn't bother me anymore though. Some bright spark realised there was a constant stream of paddy wagons running home empty from the continent and literally passing our door, so they get a backload and I had to find something else to do. :(
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scimmy_man

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Re: Ferry lorry tipping over!
« Reply #34 on: 27 December 2018, 15:28:30 »

about 20  years back our Range rover was chained down on a rough channel crossing, one front one rear, lots of other stuff on the truck deck was being chained.
« Last Edit: 27 December 2018, 15:30:27 by scimmy_man »
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